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Do you know a Terrorist®? An ordinary bad guy?

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:18 AM
Original message
Poll question: Do you know a Terrorist®? An ordinary bad guy?
I'll bet almost anything that not on in a million Americans knows or has known a Terrorist®.

I'll be almost anything that no more than one in a hundred know someone who's broken the law in a way that could or did get some jail time.

And yet, all talk by federal law enforcement and 'security' types is terroristcentric.

Can you imagine how they'd be all over a gay terrorist? A black terrorist? A liberal terrorist?
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. I knew a terrorist.
He was brown and had a middle-eastern sounding name. Fox Newz says that he was a terrorist, So I reported him to DHS.

Oh and :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. Clarify "get some jail time".
That could include anything from possession of marijuana (not a bad guy in my book) to a rapist (bad guy!).

Maybe clarification of "bad guy" is needed more than a clarification of "jail time". For me, anyway. :hi:
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Bad" guy is subjective.
I know some outlaw bikers and some mob guys and I guess technically they are "bad" guys but they are cool to me, protect the neighborhood and have a Robin Hood streak. Their personal business is none of mine.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. I just worry that a time will come when...
gay terrorist and liberal terrorist will be considered redundant. Or when activist and terrorist become synonymous.
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. S. 1959 makes this so.
SEC. 2. PREVENTION OF VIOLENT RADICALIZATION AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM.

(a) In General- Title VIII of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (6 U.S.C. 361 et seq.) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`Subtitle J--Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism

`SEC. 899A. DEFINITIONS.

`In this subtitle:

`(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.

`(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

`(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

`(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.

`SEC. 899B. FINDINGS.

`The Congress finds the following:

`(1) The development and implementation of methods and processes that can be used to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in the United States is critical to combating domestic terrorism.

`(2) The promotion of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence exists in the United States and poses a threat to homeland security.

`(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.

`(4) While the United States must continue its vigilant efforts to combat international terrorism, it must also strengthen efforts to combat the threat posed by homegrown terrorists based and operating within the United States.

`(5) Understanding the motivational factors that lead to violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence is a vital step toward eradicating these threats in the United States.

`(6) The potential rise of self radicalized, unaffiliated terrorists domestically cannot be easily prevented through traditional Federal intelligence or law enforcement efforts, and requires the incorporation of State and local solutions.

`(7) Individuals prone to violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence span all races, ethnicities, and religious beliefs, and individuals should not be targeted based solely on race, ethnicity, or religion.

`(8) Any measure taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism in the United States should not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents.

`(9) Certain governments, including the Government of the United Kingdom, the Government of Canada, and the Government of Australia have significant experience with homegrown terrorism and the United States can benefit from lessons learned by those nations.

`SEC. 899C. NATIONAL COMMISSION ON THE PREVENTION OF VIOLENT RADICALIZATION AND IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE.

`(a) Establishment- There is established within the legislative branch of the Government the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism.

`(b) Purpose- The purposes of the Commission are the following:

`(1) Examine and report upon the facts and causes of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in the United States, including United States connections to non-United States persons and networks, violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in prison, individual or `lone wolf' violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence, and other faces of the phenomena of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence that the Commission considers important.

`(2) The Commission shall, in cooperation with the Department, the Department of State, and other Federal departments and agencies, as appropriate, conduct a survey of methodologies implemented by foreign nations to prevent violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in their respective nations.

`(3) Build upon and bring together the work of other entities and avoid unnecessary duplication, by reviewing the findings, conclusions, and recommendations of--

`(A) the Center of Excellence established or designated under section 899D, and other academic work, as appropriate;

`(B) Federal, State, local, or tribal government studies of, reviews of, and experiences with violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence; and

`(C) foreign government studies of, reviews of, and experiences with violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence.

`(c) Composition of Commission- The Commission shall be composed of 12 members appointed for the life of the Commission, of whom--

`(1) 2 members shall be appointed by the President from among officers or employees of the executive branch and private citizens of the United States;

`(2) 2 members shall be appointed by the majority leader of the Senate;

`(3) 1 member shall be appointed by the minority leader of the Senate;

`(4) 2 members shall be appointed by the Speaker of the House of Representatives;

`(5) 1 member shall be appointed by the minority leader of the House of Representatives;

`(6) 1 member shall be appointed by the Chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security of the House of Representatives;

`(7) 1 member shall be appointed by the ranking minority member of the Committee on Homeland Security of the House of Representatives;

`(8) 1 member shall be appointed by the Chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs of the Senate; and

`(9) 1 member shall be appointed by the ranking minority member of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs of the Senate.

`(d) Chair and Vice Chair- The Commission shall elect a Chair and a Vice Chair from among its members.

`(e) Qualifications-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Individuals shall be selected for appointment to the Commission solely on the basis of their professional qualifications, achievements, public stature, experience, and expertise in relevant fields, including behavioral science, constitutional law, corrections, counterterrorism, cultural anthropology, education, information technology, intelligence, juvenile justice, local law enforcement, organized crime, Islam and other world religions, sociology, or terrorism.

`(2) LIMITATION- Not more than 6 members of the Commission shall be from the same political party.

`(f) Deadline for Appointment- All members of the Commission shall be appointed not later than 60 days after the date of enactment of this subtitle.

`(g) Quorum and Meetings- The Commission shall meet and begin the operations of the Commission not later than 30 days after the date on which all members have been appointed or, if such meeting cannot be mutually agreed upon, on a date designated by the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Each subsequent meeting shall occur upon the call of the Chair or a majority of its members. A majority of the members of the Commission shall constitute a quorum, but a lesser number may hold meetings.

`(h) Powers of Commission-

`(1) IN GENERAL-

`(A) HEARINGS AND EVIDENCE- The Commission or, on the authority of the Commission, any subcommittee or member thereof, may, for the purpose of carrying out this section, hold hearings and sit and act at such times and places, take such testimony, receive such evidence, and administer such oaths as the Commission considers advisable to carry out its duties.

`(B) CONTRACTING- The Commission may, to such extent and in such amounts as are provided in appropriation Acts, enter into contracts to enable the Commission to discharge its duties under this section.

`(2) INFORMATION FROM FEDERAL AGENCIES-

`(A) IN GENERAL- The Commission may secure directly from any executive department, bureau, agency, board, commission, office, independent establishment, or instrumentality of the Government, information (including classified information), suggestions, estimates, and statistics for the purposes of this section. The head of each such department, bureau, agency, board, commission, office, independent establishment, or instrumentality shall, to the extent authorized by law, furnish such information, suggestions, estimates, and statistics directly to the Commission, upon request made by the Chair of the Commission, by the chair of any subcommittee created by a majority of the Commission, or by any member designated by a majority of the Commission.

`(B) RECEIPT, HANDLING, STORAGE, AND DISSEMINATION- Information shall only be received, handled, stored, and disseminated by members of the Commission and its staff consistent with all applicable statutes, regulations, and Executive orders.

`(i) Assistance From Federal Agencies-

`(1) GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION- The Administrator of General Services shall provide to the Commission on a reimbursable basis administrative support and other services for the performance of the Commission's functions.

`(2) OTHER DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES- In addition to the assistance required under paragraph (1), a Federal department or agency may provide to the Commission such services, funds, facilities, and staff as they may determine advisable and as may be authorized by law.

`(j) Postal Services- The Commission may use the United States mails in the same manner and under the same conditions as departments and agencies of the United States.

`(k) Nonapplicability of Federal Advisory Committee Act- The Federal Advisory Committee Act (5 U.S.C. App.) shall not apply to the Commission.

`(l) Public Meetings-

`(1) IN GENERAL- The Commission shall hold public hearings and meetings to the extent appropriate.

`(2) PROTECTION OF INFORMATION- Any public hearings of the Commission shall be conducted in a manner consistent with the protection of information provided to or developed for or by the Commission as required by any applicable statute, regulation, or Executive order.

`(m) Staff of Commission-

`(1) APPOINTMENT AND COMPENSATION- The Chair of the Commission, in consultation with the Vice Chair and in accordance with rules adopted by the Commission, may appoint and fix the compensation of a staff director and such other personnel as may be necessary to enable the Commission to carry out its functions, without regard to the provisions of title 5, United States Code, governing appointments in the competitive service, and without regard to the provisions of chapter 51 and subchapter III of chapter 53 of such title relating to classification and General Schedule pay rates, except that no rate of pay fixed under this subsection may exceed the maximum rate of pay for GS-15 under the General Schedule.

`(2) STAFF EXPERTISE- Individuals shall be selected for appointment as staff of the Commission on the basis of their expertise in one or more of the fields described in subsection (e)(1).

`(3) PERSONNEL AS FEDERAL EMPLOYEES-

`(A) IN GENERAL- The executive director and any employee of the Commission shall be employees under section 2105 of title 5, United States Code, for purposes of chapters 63, 81, 83, 84, 85, 87, 89, and 90 of that title.

`(B) MEMBERS OF COMMISSION- Subparagraph (A) shall not be construed to apply to members of the Commission.

`(4) DETAILEES- Any Federal employee may be detailed to the Commission without reimbursement from the Commission, and during such detail shall retain the rights, status, and privileges of the regular employment of such employee without interruption.

`(5) CONSULTANT SERVICES- The Commission may procure the services of experts and consultants in accordance with section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, at rates not to exceed the daily rate paid a person occupying a position at level IV of the Executive Schedule under section 5315 of title 5, United States Code.

`(6) EMPHASIS ON SECURITY CLEARANCES- The Commission shall make it a priority to hire as employees and retain as contractors and detailees individuals otherwise authorized by this section who have active security clearances.

`(n) Commission Personnel Matters-

`(1) COMPENSATION OF MEMBERS- Each member of the Commission who is not an employee of the Government shall be compensated at a rate not to exceed the daily equivalent of the annual rate of basic pay in effect for a position at level IV of the Executive Schedule under section 5315 of title 5, United States Code, for each day during which that member is engaged in the actual performance of the duties of the Commission.

`(2) TRAVEL EXPENSES- While away from their homes or regular places of business in the performance of services for the Commission, members of the Commission shall be allowed travel expenses, including per diem in lieu of subsistence, at rates authorized for employees of agencies under subchapter I of chapter 57 of title 5, United States Code, while away from their homes or regular places of business in the performance of services for the Commission.

`(3) TREATMENT OF SERVICE FOR PURPOSES OF RETIREMENT BENEFITS- A member of the Commission who is an annuitant otherwise covered by section 8344 or 8468 of title 5, United States Code, by reason of membership on the Commission shall not be subject to the provisions of such section with respect to membership on the Commission.

`(4) VACANCIES- A vacancy on the Commission shall not affect its powers and shall be filled in the manner in which the original appointment was made. The appointment of the replacement member shall be made not later than 60 days after the date on which the vacancy occurs.

`(o) Security Clearances- The heads of appropriate departments and agencies of the executive branch shall cooperate with the Commission to expeditiously provide Commission members and staff with appropriate security clearances, to the extent possible under applicable procedures and requirements.

`(p) Reports-

`(1) FINAL REPORT-

`(A) IN GENERAL- Not later than 18 months after the date on which the Commission first meets, the Commission shall submit to the President and Congress a final report including--

`(i) its findings and conclusions;

`(ii) legislative recommendations for--

`(I) immediate and long-term countermeasures to violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence; and

`(II) measures that can be taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence from developing and spreading within the United States; and

`(iii) any final recommendations for any additional grant programs to support these purposes.

`(B) ANNEX- The report submitted under subparagraph (A) may include a classified annex.

`(2) INTERIM REPORTS- The Commission shall submit to the President and Congress--

`(A) by not later than 6 months after the date on which the Commission first meets, a first interim report on--

`(i) its findings and conclusions and legislative recommendations for the purposes described in paragraph (1)(A); and

`(ii) its recommendations on the feasibility of a grant program established and administered by the Secretary for the purpose of preventing, disrupting, and mitigating the effects of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and, if such a program is feasible, recommendations on how grant funds should be used and administered; and

`(B) by not later than 6 months after the date on which the Commission submits the interim report under subparagraph (A), a second interim report on the matters described in that subparagraph.

`(3) INDIVIDUAL OR DISSENTING VIEWS- Each member of the Commission may include in each report under this subsection the individual additional or dissenting views of the member.

`(4) PUBLIC AVAILABILITY- The Commission shall release a public version of each report required under this subsection.

`(q) Availability of Funding- Amounts made available to the Commission to carry out this section shall remain available until the earlier of the expenditure of the amounts or the termination of the Commission.

`(r) Termination of Commission- The Commission shall terminate 30 days after the date on which the Commission submits its final report under subsection (p).

`SEC. 899D. CENTER OF EXCELLENCE FOR THE STUDY OF VIOLENT RADICALIZATION AND HOMEGROWN TERRORISM IN THE UNITED STATES.

`(a) Establishment-

`(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall establish or designate a university-based Center of Excellence for the Study of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism in the United States (in this section referred to as the `Center') using merit-review processes and procedures and other limitations established for designating university-based centers for homeland security under section 308(b)(2)(B). The Center shall assist homeland security officials of Federal, State, local, and tribal governments through training, education, and research in preventing violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in the United States.

`(2) USE OF EXISTING CENTERS- In carrying out this section, the Secretary may create a new Center designed exclusively for the purpose described in subsection (b) or identify and expand a university-based center for homeland security of the Department in existence on the date of enactment of this subtitle by designating a working group within that center to achieve the purpose described in subsection (b).

`(b) Purpose- It shall be the purpose of the Center to study the social, criminal, political, psychological, and economic roots of violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in the United States and methods that can be used by homeland security officials of Federal, State, local, and tribal governments to mitigate violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism.

`(c) Activities- In carrying out this section, the Center shall--

`(1) contribute to the establishment of training, written materials, information, analytical assistance and professional resources to aid in combating violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism;

`(2) use theories, methods and data from the social and behavioral sciences to better understand the origins, dynamics, and social and psychological aspects of violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism;

`(3) conduct research on the motivational factors that lead to violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism; and

`(4) coordinate with other academic institutions studying the effects of violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism, where appropriate.


----

Read the entire bill at thomas.loc.gov - just enter --> S. 1959 <-- and hit the enter button.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. And, to put this notion at the fore of the national psyche, the word Terrorist® is used widely .....
...... freely, and liberally.

In a short time, it will be very easy to call your neighbor a Terrorist®.
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. There are a bunch of those "ordinary bad guys" around
according to Martha Stout

"We are accustomed to think of sociopaths as violent criminals, but in The Sociopath Next Door, Harvard psychologist Martha Stout reveals that a shocking 4 percent of ordinary people—one in twenty-five—has an often undetected mental disorder, the chief symptom of which is that that person possesses no conscience."

in her book "The Sociopath Next Door"

http://www.bookbrowse.com/reviews/index.cfm?book_number=1530
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. only my X who I refer to as Mr Wonderful, only to make him more so because
he's so fundamentally awful and everyone I've mostly erratically slept with in my life. But don't tell anyone. . .okay. . .?

He works for SAIC. I didn't even know he was a Repuke until we divorced. I wasn't very political back then. "D-oh"

Life can be weird.
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trusty elf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. I know an errorist in the war on terrierism


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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. Click answer 3 to have your door kicked in by a swat team 20 minutes later :p
:rofl:
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. w is a terrorist and dicky boy is a BAD GUY
does that count. :-)
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. I've Met Repugnicans...
In 1969 on a Washington school trip, I shook hands with Donald Rumsfeld...does that count?
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. You have more of a chance of getting struck by lightning
or willing millions of dollars in a lottery than ever having contact with a "terrorist".
But it's been a tool of this administration to keep instilling irrational fears about terrorism. People who get all their news from mainstream media do think it's important to worry about terrorists. Fear does strange things to people's brains.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, THE TRUTH IS THE GREATEST ENEMY OF THE STATE." -- Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

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TheFriendlyAnarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. Your latter assumption may be false-
Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 07:38 AM by TheFriendlyAnarchist
I would be with you on the first one, but with the way our drug laws are set up (MMS, etc), a lot of people can go to jail.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. In the early 1960s
I met Jomo Kinyatta (sic).
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