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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 08:17 PM
Original message
The miracle of melancholia
more: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-wilson17feb17,0,330372.story

The miracle of melancholia

We're a nation obsessed with being happy, but sometimes feeling bad can do you some good.

By Eric G. Wilson
February 17, 2008

In april of 1819, right around the time that he began to suffer the first symptoms of tuberculosis -- the disease that had already killed his mother and his beloved brother, Tom -- the poet John Keats sat down and wrote, in a letter to his brother, George, the following question: "Do you not see how necessary a World of Pains and troubles is to school an Intelligence and make it a Soul?"

Implied in this inquiry is an idea that is not very popular these days -- at least not in the United States, which is characterized by an almost collective yearning for complete happiness. That idea is this: A person can only become a fully formed human being, as opposed to a mere mind, through suffering and sorrow. This notion would seem quite strange, possibly even deranged, in a country in which almost 85% of the population claims, according to the Pew Research Center, to be "very happy" or at least "happy."

Indeed, in light of our recent craze for positive psychology -- a brand of psychotherapy designed not so much to heal mental illness as to increase happiness -- as well as in light of our increasing reliance on pills that reduce sadness, anxiety and fear, we are likely to challenge Keats' meditation outright, to condemn it as a dangerous and dated affront to the modern American dream.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 08:22 PM
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1. I cannot imagine living a complete life without suffering and sorrow.
How shallow an existence that would be.

I have ventured down every hard path that I have ever encountered, and I don't know that I would change a thing.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. pain and suffering...
have been my best teachers. Bittersweet. I've racked up quite a few sayings to deal with those times. Funny how they come back when you need them.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Not even, occasionally, your underwear and socks?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. But chronic depression is a miserable existence
I understand the hesitance toward medication, but it's also been a godsend to people who are suffering.

I don't need to be "happy" all the time but I wouldn't want to live in a constant state of misery and anxiety, as are many who seek relief.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. True. Suffering/depression are two different animals.
Everyone suffers from time to time due to external events over which they have no control, and adversity only makes those with a will stronger.

Depression eats the will from the inside out and for those, medications can be a lifesaver.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. It's a state of enlightenment
It really is.

If your brain works this way, there is no other way to live.

Would you convert to religion, which you don't believe in?

Would you ignore everything around you, which implies death?

Would you embrace drugs, which only alter your mood?

If I were to embrace the non-reality offered up by American day-to-day living, I'D BE A FOOL.

Music, art, nature. This is the world in which we live. Enjoy, create, and die.

Am I wrong?
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 08:31 PM
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4. I think the dark night of the soul is necessary for the health of the soul.
Edited on Tue Feb-19-08 08:34 PM by Herdin_Cats
Even if it unpleasant.

I've been going through a deep depression for over a year now. After bad experiences with anti-depressants, I've come to realize that I'm learning a great deal from this and in the end, I believe it's beneficial. I've been re-evaluating myself and everything in my life. I've found much that I don't like. It can be incredibly painful to look inside yourself. But through it all, a deep change is occurring and I believe I will come out on the other side a stronger, more compassionate person. It's like being a caterpillar in a cocoon.

I've actually dealt with depression to one degree or another most of my life. This time, it's different. First, it's been worse, more painful. But also, it does seem like a constructive depression, a life-changing melancholy. Perhaps it's just that I'm recognizing that there are benefits to what I'm going through right now and that recognition makes it bearable. Also, I'm meditating and just being with the pain, allowing it to be. I'm trying to learn from what I'm going through rather than distracting myself from it in any way that I can.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Have you ever read about Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration?
Edited on Tue Feb-19-08 08:45 PM by sleebarker
I can't find anything about it in bookstores - well, I do find it when I search but it says "Book not in store" for everything. And the library doesn't have anything either. But there's a lot of websites about it.

Although looking through the first few pages of Google results, this is the only one I can find that isn't also about giftedness. Hmm.

http://members.shaw.ca/positivedisintegration/

This is a very basic summary.

http://members.shaw.ca/positivedisintegration/levelIandII.htm

Anyone have any opinions on how credible the theory is? I personally think that it makes sense and reflects what I see in real life, but then I am fallible and often make errors.

It does seem to coincide with a lot of other stuff, though - like the bit about how people seem to start to progress in their youth but then go back to an earlier level. Rather like how the authoritarian personality research shows that people become less authoritarian in college but then get more authoritarian afterwards when they have kids. It also correlates fairly well with other developmental theories I've read.

Anyway, the main point is that he says that sometimes what society pathologizes and medicates is actually personality growth.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. only in America do people believe happiness 24/7
is the preferred and acceptable state of being-wonderful desire-impossible goal.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm living proof
I should be dead.

Thanks for posting this.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. All I have to say is:
THANK YOU MR. BUSH*!!! You* have fucked the US and the middle class over for so long that many of us suffer from terminal melancholia!
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. The End of the Imposition of the Phony, Corporate Version of "Self"
I think this basic statement is true, and can be elaborated on and extended to other things, as people on this thread have done. Not only is a constant fixation on only your own happiness a corrupting, immoral influence, but I think even the corporate media version of "self-esteem" is a horrible perversion of natural self-worth and liking yourself, etc., and turning it all to an excuse for the most selfish and obnoxious treatment of others. I also think it all goes along with the increasing (until it drives you insane) loud, fast, vulgar commercialization of our whole society--advertising of course, culture/entertainment/public debate, city planning, etc. I think a lot of these things are related. (I also agree with people on this thread that there is a difference between the annoying insistence on being "happy" all the time, and a desire to escape painful depression, etc., and I support the use of prescription drugs to help with these conditions--many of them, after all, can be brought under control with medications.)

I think it helps to lose, to be criticized, to have things not go your way; sometimes this is the only way you would ever detach yourself from the situation, and think. Sometimes you will not face a fault or wrong opinion of yours, until you absolutely have to, painfully, because you were publicly smacked down by somebody else, rejected, exposed as a hypocrite, or something else unpleasant. You can't just go through life winning and being happy--it isn't possible, and even if you seemed to be doing it, your own personality has probably become very arrogant and abusive. There was a statement from the great anthropologist Margaret Mead, that the worst thing that could happen to a child who has abused an animal, is to get away with it, because then that makes it seem as if it is nothing, nobody cares, it is actually all right. You have to suffer a punishment, and be stopped. On a different note but also about criticism, there was a quote from Benjamin Franklin, that I think was on a tag line of a DU poster's messages, something like, Thank you for your criticism, for you have shown me my faults.

What is more insufferable than a brat who was allowed to win, to get away with it, to be excused, for everything they do? Many, many studies have shown that the worst woman-beaters, murderers, abusers, stalkers, etc., have had a background of always being excused for everything they do, always being catered to, never being allowed to suffer any "unhappy" consequences, until they eventually become monsters for it. A life where you only win, where eveyine else is unhappy, never you, where you have to be made happy at everyone else's expense, no matter what, because it was the only important thing, is a living hell for others. It is only selfishness and oppression.

On the other hand, a higher thought is that we all have to learn to live in the world and adjust to each other, trying to invent a society that allows all to exist, as much as possible, and to have an egalitarian society where all have rights, all must also be stopped from encroaching on others, as much as possible. You can't just win. I think it was Mia Farrow--who has become such a brilliant advocate for the victims of Darfur, very powerful--who wrote once, that the second half of life is learning how to lose, and eventually losing everything. You had better learn how to compromise, to lose, to be replaced, at some point during your life, or you will have a horrific time of it, when it really starts to come.

People who are only concerned about their own happiness also have no bounds to the logic of their selfishness. Them not having a new wardrobe, another new car, electronic toys, etc., is on the same level as poor people who can never afford to go to a dentist, because, after all, "they are all equally unhappy. I suffer just as much as they do." There is no sympathy for others, if they only barely exist for me.

I agree that sadness is a great teacher, and oddly, sometimes gets rid of anxiety, if you just stop running away, accept it, let it and the problem be there, and realize how much good you have going on in life, not to punish yourself with, but to calm down and ignore things with. If you can accept the sadness of life, etc., you can sink to the deeper levels and know them--the only threat is having it turn to depression and hopelessness. I believe this society will not be anything great again, until we can get rid of the "violent/abusive/vulgar/loud" corporate highjacking of all our public life, and make it safe for introverted people and others who don't want to be assaulted and offended every God damned day, to come out of hiding and run it again.
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