Who should run our country?

[chknltl]

It's no secret that older folks often come up with hair-brained solutions to complex problems. Just listen to Washington Journal on C-SPAN sometimes and you will hear endless callers with their simplistic solutions. Well I am no different and I feel a need to get on my soapbox and air out mine. It is my hopes that I am seeing things as they are and perhaps I am pointing out America's real problems here. I think I may be on to something, on the other hand perhaps I am just on something and should seek professional help. Grab a cup of coffee and get comfortable this is lengthy. I have used this to convert republicans... three times so far I have debated staunch republicans with my views, the ones presented here, and in each case they promised me that they would NOT vote for republicans this time. Better yet one of them has switched from Romney to Obama!

My way of seeing things:

Spock said; "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." Isn't that what our founding fathers thought as well? How elegant a description of America's Democracy, a government of the people by the people and for the people. We The People have as our bottom line: We The People! Ask any American, regardless of religion or sex or political persuasion; "What more important a pursuit can there be than preserving America's Democracy?", and they will be hard-pressed to find any other answer.

Far too many have died protecting this concept called American Democracy. Each and every person who goes to vote believes in his or her heart that they are giving their vote to the individuals who will best defend America's Democracy. To do otherwise is unthinkable for them, who in their right mind would willingly vote for a candidate who would weaken our Democracy?

This single bit of selfishness rests in the heart of every single American, this is OUR home after all and we want what is best for ourselves and for those we love and for our nation. Again: The bottommost of bottom lines for each and every one of us is the preservation of America's Democracy. Until a better form of government comes along, one which sees to the needs of the majority...well history clearly shows that it ain't happened yet.

Can we survive without capitalism? Well if we can I do not see how. Capitalism and America's Democracy go hand in hand BUT there is a problem with capitalism. Unlike our bottom line, the needs of the majority is not the bottom line for capitalism. Capitalism's bottom line is PROFIT. Profit and Democracy do not go hand in hand very far before one affects the other adversely. When a company is forced to pay out a wage, that wage is already having an impact on profit. Should the company cease paying that wage, their profit goes up! When that happens those employees have had a measure of their democracy impacted, they have been reduced to free labor or in a very real sense been turned into a slave labor-force. In essence the needs of the many are outweighed by the needs of the one when it comes to the corporate bottom line.

On the other hand, the needs of the majority can lead to the death of the company. A union CAN act in the interests of the majority, force up wages and bennies paid out to the employees high enough that the company goes broke. Some present the argument that unions stifle growth for companies and therefore should be abolished. This same gang is against pretty much everything which benefits the majority: Social Security, Health Care, Minimum Wage, OSHA, unions and etc. They maintain that these things impact the bottom line of the corporations and they are RIGHT...these programs DO indeed impact the corporations bottom line: PROFITS

What is left unsaid here is that if left absolutely unregulated, capitalism will destroy democracy. Each corporation within a democracy will seek to keep increasing it's own profits. It will find ways to produce it's products for less and less, it will seek to sell it's products for the maximum the market will bear. If all of the companies within that democracy are allowed to do this, they will drive labor costs down to a point where the laborers no longer can afford to purchase the very products they produce. This by itself will spiral the company down to it's own destruction but long before that happens the labor force will have been reduced to poverty status. Long before the company's demise, it will have destroyed the democracy under whose benevolence it operated.

A corporation is NOT a Democracy, it operates on a feudal system of governance. The CEO is the King, barons and dukes for upper management and peasantry are it's laborers. There really is no room here for Democracy. If you owned a company would you think it a good idea to allow the workers to run it however THEY saw fit? Of course not!

Can you see the dilemma? We The People's bottom line: DEMOCRACY, can be in direct opposition to the bottom line of We The Corporations: PROFIT, and PROFIT can be in direct opposition to DEMOCRACY! Yet we can hardly long survive without each other. How can we allow ourselves to pursue the American Dream without capitalism and how can we remain a Democracy with Capitalism?

So if we can not live without each other and yet we easily destroy each other through our very freedoms, what is the solution? Well, let me go back to both bottom lines, We The People and Profit.

If a company goes broke, the company can fold up, no harm no foul. It's employees can seek other jobs, it's C.E.O. can take what profits are left over and start another company elsewhere, or at worst go get a job like the rest of us. On the other hand if We The People go broke, where can we turn? It's not like we can just up and move en-mass to a neighboring country! We are stuck here so it is always in We The Peoples better interests to look to our own future. It becomes a natural thing for us NOT to over abuse the bottom lines of those companies which we work for. Again, the bottom line of We The People is: WE THE PEOPLE! There is no choice here, we can't and won't stifle the company to the point that the company can no longer employ us!

The solution presents itself here: We The People have it within our power to control capitalism. If we do this, capitalism will be restricted BUT not so restricted that it stops achieving profits entirely. WE THE PEOPLE control capitalism to serve the needs of WE THE PEOPLE and allow that capitalism to show ENOUGH profits for it's corporations so that they can grow...should they choose to do so, or pocket those profits should they choose that instead.

When this gets turned around, when the corporations call the shots...well the end product is the death of Democracy. They have NO obligation to our democracy, they are run as a kingdom. So should America be run by the corporations? Not just NO but HELL NO! The business of We The People is BOTH capitalism AND democracy. We MUST guard against corporations gaining control over our business and impacting our democracy.

If you have hung in there with me so far, my thanks to you dear reader. Now let me show you how unregulated capitalism is destroying America.... again. Let me show you the face of your enemy. It ain't bush or cheney or halliburton or the republican party. It is the bottom line of the corporation: Profit, COMBINED with our own inattentiveness to our own governance. This deadly combination is what I feel is destroying America from the inside out.

Here are a couple of examples of this:

So what happens when a corporation gets away with paying less than minimum wage to it's employees? Well Americans won't work there long without blowing the whistle so the company pays that wage to non-Americans. Translation: Fewer Jobs for We The People and a DEVASTATING immigration problem. Who profits? Capitalism. Solution: We The People create and ENFORCE laws which prevent employers from paying out to ANYONE less than minimum wage. We The People take control over the regulations which allow for the hiring of the employees here in America and we enforce those regulations.

That one is a no brainer, far cheaper than any walls, far cheaper than any "round ups" of the undocumenteds... and yet this is not happening. Why not? Because the needs of the corporations is what is in control here. Are We The People attentive to this? Nope. Is THIS democracy? NO! Instead we talk about walls and increasses in border patrols...

So what happens when a company determines that it will maximize it's profits by taking itself to the cheap labor, for instance move to India. Well there goes American jobs for one but far worse they now not only produce their products FAR cheaper, they can sell those products a bit cheaper as well. This allows them to undercut their competition here in America...eventually driving those business's into bankruptcy. Translation: loss of a great many jobs, the necessity of reduction in wages for the surviving corporations who try to remain competitive and consumers have less cash to buy products with, (reduction in consumerism)

Solution? Tariffs. If the offshore imports are tariffed to a point equal to or slightly higher than the domestic product, American manufacturers can remain competitive. Better yet those companies who left our country for cheap labor will be forced back if the tariffs on their imported products are high enough. Translation: A return of American JOBS.

Yet this is not happening. American manufacturers, those few which are still here, are forced to be competitive with companies who are paying a little more than a bowl of rice to it's labor force. We can not long endure this.
The republican solution: lower the corporate taxes is a red herring. Loss of Jobs, unfair competition are items which are impacting We The People and yet we have not been able to do much about this. Is THAT Democracy? Hell NO!
How many of We The People are paying attention to this?

See the pattern here? This is but two of many examples of where "We The Corporations" have taken control over We The People! This is not democracy and yet We The People allowed this to happen! In the meanwhile we have allowed ourselves to be divided and conquered, republicans screaming that the democrats are destroying America and democrats screaming that republicans are destroying America... the brutal truth is, We The People have allowed this. We have lost sight of our own bottom line: democracy. Capitalism has not lost sight of our bottom line though, they have shrugged off our controls in order to maximize their bottom line PROFIT and they are now doing bang-up business AT OUR EXPENSE. This comes out of We The People's pockets!

Do any of you remember the day when it only took ONE parent to go to work at a middle class job, 40 hrs per week in order to afford a comfortable lifestyle, a home, and 3.4 children? Those days are gone...yet PROFITS are up for corporations... who is in charge of whom? And yet who is talking about further corporate tax breaks? Who benefits from an increase in corporate tax breaks? Is it We The People or We The Corporations... WHO IS REALLY IN CHARGE HERE? WHO LET THEM IN???

I'll conclude my rant with so far, I have not bumped into many who disagree with what I have put together. Most folks who linger long enough with what I am saying are now fearful that we are losing our democracy. It does not matter if they are a democrat or republican or a christian or an atheist, male or female...as long as they are American, they can see that We The People are in peril. I remind them that if they feel Democracy is their bottom line, if there really is no better form of government then they MUST work to strengthen America's Middle Class. We The People ARE America's Middle Class and when we grow strong America grows strong and when we grow weak America grows weak. It is up to We The People to take back our democracy. If we fail at that, America can not survive much longer. It is my strongest desire to not go into a second Great Depression before Americans wake up, pull back together and TAKE BACK OUR GOVERNMENT...it is ours still and this attack must be stopped.

Who should run our country? WE THE PEOPLE! I challange you to find any republican who disagrees with that notion... we have this in common and we can yet rally together behind that simple concept. I doubt Presidents Jefferson or Washington would see things otherwise. This nation divided business needs to come to an end lest this nation comes to an end, my fellow American is not my enemy.

thanks

[kimmerspixelated]

1. THAT's RIGHT! WE THE PEOPLE!!!!!

ARE WE ALL BRAINDEAD????? America is a relatively young country! How could we forget the revolution, and what it meant?!!!

THE CORPORATIONS SHOULD NOT-NOT-NOT RUN this country, but that's exactly who is!!!!!!

Jefferson is rolling over in his grave!:cry:

[chknltl]

5. It is my hopes that Democracy/Capitalism operates in pendulum fashion...

...through time.

In our history we had a Golden Age of the Middle Class brought on by the Homestead act. Then the pendulum swung away from We The People with the peaking of the Industrial Revolution. Corporations ate into each other all the while they ate into We The People. The result was the Great Depression. (an interesting aside: The two republican administrations prior to the Great Depression issued many tax cuts to: yep you guessed it, big business.)

Then the pendulum swung back our way again, We The People banded together to reclaim our government. We created strengtheners for the Middle Class, Social Security, Minimum Wage and we strengthened our unions. This brought on a second golden age for America, one which lasted until Reagan came along.

He pushed the pendulum back and it has been swinging away from We The people ever since. I am getting a feeling that it is slowing and about to reverse again just after the next election. We The People are coming together again, this time bonding because of an awareness that we are again on the verge of another Great Depression. Have we gotten hungry enough to do this? I think perhaps we have. If I am right, the next Golden age for America's Middle Class, (read We The People), will take place around 2010 and should last decades beyond that. Well that is what my simple mind thinks...it may be just wishful thinking but it just feels right to me. If this is the case, Democrats will surge into congress in numbers we can barely dream of right now... hang in there, We The People may be about to stage a comeback!

[Selatius]

2. You should read David Schweickart's work on introducing democracy to the workplace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Schweickart

Economic Democracy: A Worthy Socialism That Would Really Work

There is an excerpt linked at that page about the book. Basically, it's a blueprint for establishing a public banking mechanism. The mechanism would be nationally funded but locally controlled at the local branches. The mechanism would exist to essentially educate workers about worker co-ops in addition to providing capital and money to start new co-ops, capitalize existing co-ops, and buy out failed and existing firms to be reorganized into new co-ops. While the point isn't to replace all private ownership, the aim is to provide workers a choice between working for a privately owned firm and thus be counted as a labor cost or work for yourself with others and sell your labor directly to consumers rather than to your boss, who may or may not care about your welfare.

[chknltl]

6. Bookmarked

I just finished reading Thom Hartmann's book: "SCREWED, The Undeclared War Against America's Middle Class"
I feel that he put things in terms I could understand. I have an old B.A. in Anthropology so reducing complex concepts into simpler formats while retaining the big picture as Thom Hartmann did worked well on me. I have since been preaching my thoughts to the many Republicans I run across and I find we communicate well when we chat from our common strength: Our love for America! It works far better than the shouting matches I had been in prior to reading Thom's book.

I checked your link and read what Wiki had on Mr. Schweickart. He may be a little deep for me to understand but I will delve into it further. I find myself hopelessly outclassed debating folks with even a few "100 level" economics classes. Funny thing is though, I have found NOBODY who felt that We The People should let a minority take control over our government! This comforts me greatly. I look forward to presenting my views tomorrow, I will be partaking in Washington State's caucus's!

[MedleyMisty]

3. I'm a big fan of democratic socialism

But your way explains it without using the word socialism, which is good - I am slowly learning about "labels" and people being brainwashed about certain words.

[chknltl]

7. Thank You

I really am quite undereducated in the various forms of government that folks have had available. One person I chatted with was trying to confuse me with socialism...at first he called me a socialist but then when he learned that I felt Viet Nam was doing well these days he called me a communist! (This guy is old enough to have been affected directly by McCarthyism.) He was VERY ANGRY when he called me a communist and we ended our debate with neither side really having listened to each other. He is my neighbor and we have not spoken to each other since. I will reach out to him eventually, after-all he IS an American and his passion comes from wanting what is best for America! How can I really be mad at him for that? (As tempting as it sounds, I will pass on a friends notion of putting up pictures of Ho Chi Minh or Mao Tse Tung in my windows where he would see them)

[angrycarpenter]

4. Funny how some equate limits on busuness as communism.

Then again it's not funny at all. It is this idea that have let the hyenas rip at us for a long time. Maybe it will take a major recession to bring some fairness to this mess. Workers of the world, unite!

[chknltl]

8. I am still new at this but I think they miss the bigger picture.

I can see and understand the concept that "What I do with MY business IS MY business". That is truly what allows the entrepreneurs to be creative. We need that. Their fears that We The People may choose to directly control "Their" business is worthy. I think that could be a force which destroys our Democracy just as they do but then I am advocating a kind of a balance. When I ask them "Do you want to sell out your Democracy to a minority shareholder?" They say NO! At that point I can offer up that We The People must retain the ultimate say so over our own capitalism.

One point that gets driven home is when I ask them if they can keep their business competitive with a competitor who is paying less than minimum wage to illegal workers. This bothers the hell out of these guys. Next I tell them that it is in the corporations better interests to pay out less than minimum wage...they see that easy enough as well and wonder why I would suggest such a thing. Finally I point out that if everyone did this, the pool of folks who could afford to purchase anything would be greatly diminished. This would spiral down to another Great Depression. There was plenty of products that could be purchased back then but nobody had money to buy those products. Then I point out that there are laws regarding minimum wage and should they be enforced, business's could operate without the burden of unfair competition. When that happens there is more money out there and more folks looking to purchase the products of his business. Basically Capitalism is a good thing and if regulated properly EVERYONE prospers but when left to it's own designs EVERYONE suffers!

What happens here is that I have given them the bigger picture as I see it and so far, I found it works pretty well. Instead of shouting matches I find my 'adversaries' scratching their heads and saying stuff like: "Ya know, I never thought of it that way" Truth be told, I am appealing both to their sense of capitalism and their sense of fair play. None of the these things I point out to them have anything to do with communism and it does not take me long to get them to see that.

We Americans are into fair play...most folks want to believe that they can go as far in business as their own efforts will take them. Hard work made America great and they do not want anyone standing in the way. I agree with that notion, I encourage that notion but that form of capitalism needs both control and protection. When control and protection comes from We The People as opposed to a minority, (read large corporate conglomerate) then small business has a fair chance in the world. It only slightly sounds like communism when prtesented like that but in reality it is democracy: The needs of the many being tended to by: the many! ((Again I am no economics student but to me it sounds like democracy at any rate.)

[chknltl]

9. kick

[chknltl]

10. kick