November Karma?

[SoCalDem]

I will gladly vote for either Hillary or Obama, but I will guarantee you this..

The people who were just turned on to politics by the Obama campaign, and its promise of a "new party", and the old time faithfuls who were insulted by Bill's South Carolina antics, will stay home in November if they sniff arm-twisting and conniving "politics as usual".

I am sensing the "deal-brokers" butting into the process...big-time. Most people do not understand the "super-delegate" thing, or if they do, they see it as an intrusive way to un-do the whole process of the primary system? Why not just have MORE super-delegates (who know better than the rest of us) and do away with the whole pretense of voting in the first place :sarcasm:


If the deal-makers step in and try to "end it early for the sake of unity", it will set the party back, and will hurt the "down-ticket" races as well.

Right now, we are in the rah-rah stage, and everyone's fired up, but the whole thing could become a nightmare if we end up shooting down a candidacy that draws people in the 10s of thousands, and puts forward the message, that no matter how many people show up for one person, and no matter how energized the party is, the big-shots will step in and negate the whole movement..

Movements always scare party leaders

The exhuberance of JFK's candidacy & administration scared people...so did the candidacy of RFK...and Dean..

We know what happened to the first two, and the media "did the job" on the 3rd one..

As heady as the Obama campaign is, I think the party is afraid of losing control, and if they step over that invisible line (in the public's eyes), they will rein it all back in, but they will also "turn off" about 1/3 of their voters.

This time around, it might be enough to still win, but they could lose more, in the process..

[NightWatcher]

1. exactly, BS and backroom deals will kill the idea of "people powered politics"

[katty]

2. exactly, great assessment

[KharmaTrain]

3. Somebody Call Me???

I didn't think so....

We're seeing an interesting dynamic at work. New people are learning about and getting involved with the political system. They're learning that it IS a system and there are games and rules that are played here. Ya learn that life isn't fair and that politics and politicians play politics and put self interest above most things (human nature is a powerful force)...lessons I experienced back in the stoned ages.

If there are those who are scared by the change, they will become victims of it. Over the past couple years...starting with Howard Dean and now onto the Obama campaign...more people getting involved...younger, more diverse and all attracted by the concept of change. My hopes are their desire remains strong and can weather all the pitfalls that are enevitable.

Obama IS the party...and its one that is more energized than I've ever experienced. Record numbers are showing up at the polls and more Democrats are voting than Repugnicans even in the deepest red states. On the other side, we see a bitterly divided and angry party...going through self-destruction and so self-absorbed they don't realize it.

[SoCalDem]

4. That's my point.. If the "deal-makers" somehow edge him out

and their fingerprints are plain as day, the people that are disgusted, will just stay home and may drop from sight altogether in the future..

The trauma of '68 set the stage for a lot of the troubles we have currently. People poured their hearts & souls into something, only to see it killed.. People were afraid to dream again..for a very long time..and the types of candidates we put forth and the losses we suffered ever since, are a testament to what can happen again..

No one "owns" a slice of the electorate, and once snubbed, they do not HAVE to support the alternative candidate shoved at them..

[KharmaTrain]

5. The Lessons Of '68

I still feel the pains of that year...and the lessons. Many McCarthy & RFK supporters felt similar to you...HHH was the Hillary and the anger was so deep that it opened a door that gave us Nixon. I see a different time now, but not that lesson. Many who are frustrated with how this game is played...and it is a game...either have to play within it or learn to live with the frustrations. I long favored third parties and attacking from outside the walls...it got very cold and lonely out there.

You are very correct...no one "owns" any part of the electorate, and I hate when I see groupthink of any sort (right AND left) as much as the party bosses...each is looking to manipulate. I prefer to be a party of one among a party of many...trying to avoid the short-term anger for the bigger picture.

I contend that if there are any people who will be staying home this year, it'll be Repugnicans. If they see themselves behind in the polls, I expect they will fold like a deck of cards...staying home rather than facing failure, and by doing so, they will destroy themselves further as they'll also lose more House and Senate seats. You won't see the rigged machines and packed church busses for a McCain...he'll be spending much of the general election attempting to keep his inept party from totally imploding.

In my way too many years of voting, I've never "loved" a candidate...I've viewed them through the political prism that this country currently operates from and try to figure how effective they can be. While I'd love to live in idealism, my world is reality-based...I just hope for the best.

Cheers...