Florida school superintendent on evolution: "There's holes in it you can drive a truck through."

[madfloridian]

It appears that many areas of North Florida are organizing against evolution being included in state science education standards. School board members and superintendents are among them, just like they are in some Central Florida counties. In some counties the majority on the board oppose the teaching of evolution in science class.

School officials are fighting proposed changes to state's science standards.

A growing number of North Florida superintendents and school boards are objecting to the state's proposed new science standards, saying the standards give too much credence to evolution and leave no room for alternative theories.

Evolution is "going to be taught as fact, and everyone knows it's not fact," said Dennis Bennett, the superintendent in Dixie County, west of Gainesville. "There's holes in it you can drive a truck through."

At least seven of Florida's 67 school boards, all north of Ocala, have passed opposition resolutions, according to the Florida Citizens for Science, a group that supports the standards and has been methodically searching board minutes.

That number could double by the time the state Board of Education votes on the standards Feb. 19, said Wayne Blanton, executive director of the Florida School Boards Association.

"It just shows the nature of Florida," Blanton said.

Indeed, Mr. Blanton, it does show something about our nature here. Unfortunately.

Churches have done a lot to oppose the teaching of science standards that include evolution.

Dominated by Baptist churches and dotted with military bases, most of North Florida makes no bones about its political and cultural conservatism. Throw an election year into the mix, Blanton said, and it's no surprise that school officials in places like Bonifay and Macclenny are "going to try to do some things their constituents want."

"We just wanted to get it on the record that we're a Judeo-Christian community, and we believe in academic freedom," Bennett said.

"I'm a Christian. And I believe I was created by God, and that I didn't come from an amoeba or a monkey," said Ken Hall, a school board member in Madison County, east of Tallahassee.

The religious right worked hard to get people elected from city commissions and school boards on up to higher offices. We are seeing the fruits of that in our education systems.

Many in those areas have said if evolution is taught in their schools, they will take their children out of public schools. And they will do that. The Southern Baptists have urged such tactics for a very long time.

A professor in the science department at Florida State University has figured out the methods the right wing is using regarding evolution.

Some experts say an attempt to insert skepticism into evolution lessons, rather than blatantly religious concepts, may be the latest wedge strategy for ultimately introducing religious ideas into science classrooms.

"This is strategy No. 4," said Michael Ruse, director of Florida State University's program on the history and philosophy of science. The first three - banning the teaching of evolution, then promoting creationism, then touting intelligent design - have all hit legal roadblocks.

Here is a good example of inserting doubt.

The St. John's resolution says the standards should "allow for balanced, objective and intellectually open instruction" that doesn't treat evolution as "dogmatic fact."

I believe it is a pattern. They tried banning, substituting creationism, then intelligent design...now they will try to instill doubt. They are doing a good job of it.

[msongs]

1. these peoples' ancestors used to say awful things about blacks and jews as subspecies nt

[sam sarrha]

2. But we are expected to politely respect their archaic goat herder superstitions based on the

visions and channeling voices from the sky that today would considered the ramblings of Schizophrenics.

a checker at the grocery store tried to save my soul yesterday, it was so pathetic.. i was actually embarrassed for her, she was really terrible at it.

[Quantess]

3. I wish he would have said

"There's holes big enough for Jesus to ride a dinosaur through".

[dorkulon]

4. Bush-olution

[ToughLuck]

35. evolution

Ha ha..this tells the tale of Bush's evolution.Only thing, just add Cheney in front as Bush has never lead alone.

[ToughLuck]

36. evolution

Sad and remarkable that in 2008 this is what leaders in education are proclaiming with a straight face no less!!

[baby_mouse]

5. This one in particular will backfire badly.

I predict confidently that this will backfire DREADFULLY on them.

[Nay]

6. You wanna see some real holes? Look at creation "science."

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. "They tried banning, substituting creationism, then intelligent design...now they will try..doubt."

Because God told them to use force, the shell game, framing, and animal magnetism. Nice. The Bible says that those tactics are God's way!

Good points!

(BTW, I believe in God, but that the universe does follow specific, observable law, and is as old as we will find out that it truly is- a touch more than 6Kyears, ya know...)

[Richard Steele]

8. Shouldn't that be "holes you could ride a dinosaur through" ?

Dumbasses.

[TheUniverse]

20. ...

[trusty elf]

51. Dumbassic Park

[Toots]

9. Skepticism is good and in fact mandatory but out and out denial is stupid.

Science by it's own definition is always skeptical and that is why when one puts forth a hypothesis on anything it is checked and rechecked and rechecked again and everything possible to disprove it is tried. That's science..Belief, on the other hand is just taken on faith. It is never put forth for scientific review because there is no science there. It is disturbing to me that so many educators have never learned basic science principles. It is no wonder America is such a country of ignorance and deceit.

[Ezlivin]

10. Sowing doubt has worked well against the science of global climate change

I've got otherwise intelligent friends who will say that they are "unsure" if humans are responsible for the dramatic climate change we are experiencing. They're not scientists, they'll say, and other scientists don't agree with the broad consensus of human-caused climate change. That's enough to sow doubt in their minds.

It'll work well with the evolution-versus-intelligent design debate because the science is not straightforward and easily accessible to the bulk of poorly educated Americans. They'll just shrug their shoulders and say "Who really knows? Let both theories be taught."

The fact that our government is not only passive but actually active in the dumbing down of our science standards stands as a stark witness that they want us to be ignorant and uninformed. After all, ignorant people are easier to control.

[madfloridian]

21. Very good point.

Shows the power of the corporate media and the changing education standards. It is easy to spread propaganda if a person does not have facts.

Yes, government has been active in dumbing down standards. They were reaching a critical point when I retired, and it has gone downhill since.

I wondered why, all of a sudden, we teachers had to use a script to teach. We had a text always, but suddenly we were not able to deviate from it. It was easy to get called on the carpet for expressing opinions.

No Child Left Behind with its test mandated curriculum is is helping the process along.

"So what can be done when states say they need more money, and the federal government says that they don’t? Unfortunately, the answer looks like nothing. The No Child Left Behind Act is a flawed and dangerously optimistic piece of legislation that simply cannot succeed anywhere near expectations. Worse, it actually has the potential to disrupt the successful programs that states have created by focusing on testing, and it ignores problems such as ballooning classroom size, under-funded English as a Second Language programs, and other basic needs. Even if the Bush administration poured billions more into NCLB to support its goals, the money and wishful thinking still wouldn’t help the education system evolve into a sound model for a decade. The Act is doomed to fail because it does not consider the needs of the states and the speed at which they can institute reform."

It all goes together. Who makes the tests in a testing driven society controls the curriculum. Think how easy to dumb down a society.

You made some very good points.

[Zodiak]

11. I sure would like to hear what "holes" they have found

...that the scientific community has not.

So pony up, Mr. Theocrat....tell us about those holes...don't just tell us you found them.

THAT would be an open and honest discussion, but of course, Mr. Theocrat is not interested in that.

[geomon666]

12. Not as big as the hole in your head and your ass.

Oops, I'm sorry, it's the same thing.

[Orsino]

13. Evolution IS fact...

...unless we discover that the Devil really did forge the entire fossil record.

[baby_mouse]

14. YAY!

Someone said it finally....

[Quantess]

27. That's what it boils down to.

Are Satan's lies behind scientific data, or not?

[and-justice-for-all]

44. Yes it is, but I think of it more as a LAW. nt

[drm604]

63. And if reality can be forged in that way...

then how can we know what to believe? How can we know what is or isn't real? How can we not doubt everything, including the Bible?

[Iktomiwicasa]

15. They can kick and scream...

...all they want, but the groundwork has already been laid to put a stop to this nonsense. 2005 Kitzmiller vs. Dover Board of Education soundly destroyed any idea that "intelligent design" has merit as a scientific theory. Interestingly, it was a conservative Bush appointed judge who ruled against the religious nuts in that case. If you haven't yet seen it, I strongly recommend that you watch "Judgement Day, Intelligent Design on Trial". It is a two hour documentary that aired 2-3 months ago on Nova, and I believe a DVD is available.

[truth2power]

34. And you can download the judge's decision here...

http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342....

It's 139 pages, but not difficult reading. Judge Jones really put the ID people in their place,IMO.

[Iktomiwicasa]

41. thanks for providing that link

[jaybeat]

59. There was a great special on PBS about that trial

Recreations with the actual words used in court, etc. My 10 yo son is very into science, evolution, prehistoric life, taxonomy, etc., and I were RIVETED. He could not believe people could be so ridiculous. And we cheered when the judge delivered his SMACK DOWN ruling. Highly recommended.

I know, lets show it in schools! After all, it shows both sides of the "debate" very well--in their own words!!!

[madfloridian]

62. Thanks for the reminder....here is the link.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html

You can view it in chapters.

[donsu]

16. it is child abuse to have this man as school Supt.

nt

[XanaDUer]

17. Having lived in N Fl for several years

this is typical of many people's attitudes there.

[Aviation Pro]

18. Thanks to Mr. Insane President....

...we are still fighting the Scopes trial. You know I think there's some credence to shipping the entire Christo-fascist, non-science crowd to some large island somewhere (think Antartica) as an experiment to see whether they evolve into a life form with brains.

Math and science rule, inbreds drool.

[madfloridian]

19. We have gone backwards in time.

He has taken this country backwards not just in education but ethically and morally. We are giving women less rights than before, playing race cards.

It has been a tragic 8 years.

[Blue_Tires]

42. +1

dark times we live in....

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

22. There's a clash of thought patterns here.

The fundamental truth of scientific philosophy is that you're never really certain about anything. It's always possible (in fact, quite likely) that any theory is at least partially wrong. You have to constantly re-evaluate and re-adapt the things you think you know.

There's not a person in the world who doesn't have a problem with that concept at some point, but I think it must be particularly bad for conservatives. Their entire mindset is built around a resistance to unwelcome change. They like things they can be certain about, that don't have to be questioned all the time. Faith and religion fill that need comfortably.

Bennett just doesn't get it. No scientist worth their degree would ever present evolution, or any other theory, as "dogmatic fact". That's what Bennett would do, if he believed in evolution. The purpose of teaching children science is to encourage them to search for truth, question what they believe, and generally think and reason for themselves. And if you were to explain that to Mr. Bennett, his head would probably explode.

[alfredo]

23. We don't know everything about gravity, I guess we should stop

teaching that too.

[RB TexLa]

26. Not to mention astronomy

[alfredo]

29. I can see a fossil of an Isotelus but as yet I haven't seen this

creator they speak about. Until I see evidence, of such a being, he's just as" real" as the Loch Ness Monster, the Easter Bunny, and Paul Bunyan.

[postman07]

24. think about this

If you as a republican want to do away with public schools, you need to find a way to drive people out of them. This is only my opinion, but Wouldn't it be a great idea to bring about something that you could instill into the system whereby you are driving people to private institution. then you can use that stat of people leaving the system as an excuse for saying that the public school system is broken. I mean if you are trying to get rid of public schools, what better way than to drive the people out using some debate that ultimately divide people in a way that either way the final outcome happens you drive out the other half and then whalla, The system is broken. lets do away with it.

[Faygo Kid]

25. Bush voters: OK with no health care, jobs, so long as no evolution taught and gays can't marry.

Cretins who get their science from Rush Limbaugh and theology from Ann Coulter.

[water]

28. If they think there are "holes" in evolution theory...

... then I see no problem allowing them to tell the students what they believe, as long as they don't make anything up.

Don't teach creationism or "intelligent design", though, which seems to be what they are getting at.

[Occam Bandage]

30. On a related note, this is a fantastically interesting video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0

[Ilsa]

31. The biggest hole is in his brain. nt

[cgrindley]

32. It's only a "theory" as far as actual scientists are concerned... to the lay audience, it's FACT

there should be a ban on non-scientists using the phrase "theory of evolution". If you don't have at least an MSc, it's the "FACT of evolution."

[ismnotwasm]

33. I'm so sick of this shit

The other day I say a co worker, a nurse with one of those idiot books "challenging" evolution. This drives me crazy because part of a nursing degree is a science degree and you get a fairly decent intro science education, even with an Associates in nursing. And this women has more education.

On the other hand,I know another nurse who started out with those beliefs, and went through school and stuck to them, and is now a nurse practitioner. I have more, respect for her personally even if she's a bit wonky. This other nurse, I don't know WHAT the fuck. She joined some mega idiot mega church and decided science doesn't count? I don't get it, I really don't.

I'm not religious, I don't believe in deities, but I respect anyone else's right to do so. I really resent religion--which practically by definition requires FAITH, challenging science which requires a way to prove, or disprove something. It doesn't have to be that way

Here's what else I don't get. God is omniscient and omnipotent and all that, right? How dare these people presume to put their God in there own personal crazy box? No wonder they all think he's coming back and he's pissed.

[JerseygirlCT]

37. Only if you've evolved opposable thumbs nt

[conscious evolution]

38. Intelligent design is a fact

Everyone knows the universe came into being when Krishna started pounding on his drum!

Thanks for the informative post MFla.

[madfloridian]

39. I think comparative religion should be required for all Christians.

I had a wonderfully eye-opening class in college. What a shame that was my first real understanding of the great similarities in all the major belief systems. Someone who is a savior of sorts, a belief that the earth was created in a certain way....to someone raised in the Southern Baptist south it was revealing.

[mwb970]

52. What would fundies think if they (gasp) learned the truth?

Many, many religions (such as Mithraism) have been centered on a savior deity sent by a god deity to purify mankind. There are dozens of religions with Noah-style Flood myths.

Apparently in order to be a god-fearing fully-fledged fundie, you must shut your eyes and ears to everything except church services and Fox News. You must always be on guard against acquiring new information that would threaten your carefully nurtured world view, no matter how extensive or compelling that information is. This means no college (other than Regency or ORU) and certainly no reading of any book that doesn't say "Holy Bible" right there on the front.

"Put in your earplugs, put on your eyeshades; you know where to put the cork!"

[malakai2]

40. Then drive a truck through those holes, Mr. Bennett

State your hypothesis, test it with empirical evidence, and share the results with the world. This is science class, not theology, not rhetoric.

These guys get away with this as a wedge issue because we try to fight them rhetorically. Read some Thomas Sowell sophistry, think about how you'd respond to it, and you'll see what I mean. Turn over the rocks, drag these little trolls out into the sunlight, and strip them of the cover of semantics. Watch them wither.

[and-justice-for-all]

43. Evolution is the LAW...

even with holes, it has more facts and hard evidence then the fantasy of creationism could ever pray for.

"believe it is a pattern. They tried banning, substituting creationism, then intelligent design...now they will try to instill doubt. They are doing a good job of it."

They are doing a a piss poor job if I do say so myself. Put it like this: Are you going to agree with the HARD EVIDENCE or wishful thinking from a fantasy novel written by men? apply that to a trial case and let me know what your verdict is. I bet 100 to 1 you pick the hard evidence.

This shit is a feeble attempt which they will fail yet again, after awhile it will be the straw that broke the camels back. They can save this shit for Sunday School. If they do not want their kids to learn the facts of life, then they need to send them to private school or teach them at home.

[allalone]

45. grammar police here

s/b "there ARE holes in it"

[madfloridian]

48. Was hoping someone would catch that.

As a retired teacher, it is the first thing I noticed.

[Nailzberg]

46. Have fun driving that truck without science.

I don't recall the internal combustion engine anywhere in Genesis.

[krispos42]

47. The Bible: There's holes in it you can sail the Titanic through

Sideways.

Interesting how that little factoid gets forgotten, isn' it?

I'd like to see this asshole explain how pi=3.00000000000000000. I mean, it says so right in the Bible, right? II Chronicles 4:2. Diameter 10 cubits, circumference 30 cubits.

Okay, Mr. Bennett, I'm waiting...

[ClintonTyree]

53. No shit....

global floods (where did all the water disappear to?), an ark that contained 2 of every animal on the planet (and enough food to feed them for more than 40 days and 40 nights. B-I-G fucking ark!), a whale eating a man (he sets up housekeeping within and lives to tell the story), virgin birth (thereby ruining THAT excuse for every other woman for eternity), walking on water (since replicated by a few Ninja/Kung-Foo movies), resurrection from the dead (again, Hollywood to the rescue with "Night of the Living Dead" et al.) and a litany of other "supernatural" (at best) tales that stretch the boundaries of sane, rational thought WAY past the breaking point.

Nope, no holes in the bible's fantastic tales at all. Every word, true as true can be! I can't believe I live in a country so superstitious, so backward, so willfully ignorant that a full 80% or so of it's citizens actually BELIEVE this malarkey! Instead of an age of reason and enlightenment, we seem to be reverting back to an age of darkness and superstition.

It seems implausible to me that most of the "faithful" don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of WHO wrote the bible, WHEN it was written, the politics that were involved in it's compilation, what "gospels" were left out, and why! Nope, the just accept it at face value because they've been told to. And don't forget the first lesson from the bible: DO NOT eat from the tree of knowledge. Stay ignorant, don't question anything they tell you, believe what they tell you to believe, sit down, shut up and be a GOOD little "sheep". And don't forget to tithe. ARGH!!!

Yet they refuse to believe in a theory that has more than ample evidence to support it. Fairy tales without a SHRED of evidence are MUCH more believable to them.

I have no more patience with these people. I cannot be nice to these ignorant cretins anymore. When they approach me with their "divine message" I light into them like a man who hasn't eaten in a week. I can no longer "turn the other cheek". Abject ignorance is NOT something to be proud of and I'll go to my grave trying to stamp out the lies and ignorance they so willingly embrace. These glassy-eyed, hypocritical, self-righteous fools will not get a free pass in my orbit, ever again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Perhaps these folks should do WITHOUT antibiotics

when they get an infection, After all, there is no such thing as evolution, Oh and spare the leeches... (they do work... science behind it folks)

[Bicoastal]

50. People who announce to the world they believe they were "created by God"...

...have SERIOUS self-esteem issues.

[Edweird]

54. Florida is peculiar in that south is north and north is south.

Extreme northern Florida is the deep south, whereas south Florida (where I have lived for 18 years - and like it) is generally open minded and culturally diverse. South Florida is a whole other country.

[NoFederales]

55. Well, it's "just a theory"; yup, just like gravity. Lemme know Mr. Bennett

when that fuckin' truck fails to gain "traction" through those "holes" won't you?

NoFederales

[GTurck]

56. Did the bozo..

who said he was created by God mean that he was never in the womb of his mother and does not have an earthly father? Amazing how many Sons of God there are. I hope he is not married because if he was created by God; in God's image his wife cannot be human can she?

[Prophet 451]

57. ""It just shows the nature of Florida", Blanton said"

Truer words were never spoken.

[newburgh]

58. Hey, Pasteur's bogus and unproven theories on germ and viruses...

have lead to what we call "modern" biology and big pharma while Antoine Bechamp's finding and studies were ignored- even though Pasteur stole and twisted them. What's the difference here if some religious wacko's force this creationist hogwash on our decrepit school system?

[Arugula Latte]

60. Good thing the Bible is completely airtight in its logic.

[Quantess]

64. What's the name for that kind of circular reasoning?

The Bible is the truth because it is the truth!

As they say, the Bible is the truth because it is the word of God. I personally do not believe that the bible is the word of God. That part is difficult to prove. I might believe in God, I just don't believe god wrote the bible.

[madfloridian]

61. Video link to NOVA's program about the Dover decision.

jaybeat mentioned this video above, and I had forgotten. It is in 12 chapters for viewing. I am heading there now. I only got to see a small portion of it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html

"This Nova special takes viewers beyond the headlines of the court decisions and through interviews with key players in the case, including scientists, Dover parents, teachers, and town officials, it shows how this wasn’t just a court case that would have serious implications for the future of science education in America and the separation of church and state, it literally pitted “friend against friend, and neighbor against neighbor” within the small community that serves as a microcosm of an America still divided over evolution."

[DBoon]

65. evolutionary biology is one of the foundations of modern medicine

Next time they get a life threatening infection, maybe they should consider "alternatives" to antibiotics.

If you don't like evolution, then you should refuse medical treatment based on it.

[ThomWV]

66. ... whereas Creation Theory puts up a blockade that even rational thought can not get past.

[sutz12]

67. Just as long as Jesus is driving the truck, we'll be fine.

[louis-t]

68. And, typically, they don't go into detail

about what that "hole" is. Rhetoric only.

[protowhale]

69. Louis-t, you don't want to know

what they think the "hole" is. Ask and you'll get a depressing bunch of pseudo-scientific crap gleaned from Kent Hovind videos. Then you'll wish you could wash the stupid out of your brain.

[Homer Wells]

70. There are considerably larger holes

in the doctrine of a 3000+ year old myth with no documented or physical evidence that can be examined to give the proof of the THEORY of creationism. No persons belief in a theory of an invisible Creator does more than show that that individual subscribes to the existence of said being.

I will stick with science and what my own eyes and mind tell me, thank you!!

[BobTheSubgenius]

71. Unbelievable.

What's next?

[opihimoimoi]

72. Obsessed with Fantasy......he rejects Reality...I know a lot of peeps just like him.

But, you know what,....there is a whole group of this type....susceptiple to Conservatism and its Philosophy....they will not change for shit....this is why Bush still has his Base.
They only see what they WANT to SEE......