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Cheney Killed Bambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:45 PM
Original message
Russ Feingold -- NO on Edwards
From an interview with Russ Feingold in a Wisconsin paper:

On the Democratic presidential candidates

I did notice that as the primaries heated up, all of a sudden, all the presidential candidates none of whom voted with me on the timeframe to withdraw from Iraq all voted with me and when we did the Patriot Act stuff.

The one that is the most problematic is (John) Edwards, who voted for the Patriot Act, campaigns against it. Voted for No Child Left Behind, campaigns against it. Voted for the China trade deal, campaigns against it. Voted for the Iraq war He uses my voting record exactly as his platform, even though he had the opposite voting record.

When you had the opportunity to vote a certain way in the Senate and you didn't, and obviously there are times when you make a mistake, the notion that you sort of vote one way when you're playing the game in Washington and another way when you're running for president, there's some of that going on.

On whether he'll make an endorsement in the Feb. 19 Wisconsin primary

Probably not. I'm having a hard time deciding between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, as are many people. Those are the two I take the most seriously.

I go back and forth, to be honest with you. I'm torn on this whole issue of who's more likely to be progressive and really seek change vs. who's ready to do the job today. It really is a true dilemma in my mind.


http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/...
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. ow
that'll leave a mark.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
91. Hell Russ, you picked Mukasey. You pick losers. Glad U didn't pick John
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #91
99. no. he. did. not.
russ voted against mukasey. bzzzt.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Edwards is the only one discussing The Two Americas. He gets my vote. nt
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Except I think the other candidates allude to two Americas...

Maybe they don't say it explicitely in Edward's words, but I hear it from them expressed differently. I don't know who to support.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. When can I expect them to be explicit and stop humoring corporations? Never? nt
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
90. Edwards takes no corp $. Watch FISA, telecom amnesty and Clinton/Obama being bought
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #90
129. I know. That's why I support EDWARDS! I donated today! nt
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. TWO Americans? Sounds like he has TWO positions on every issue
On position for when he is in power, another for when he is trying to acquire power.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. He's the only one risking his neck against corporations. The rest are kowtowing to corporations.
Now why on earth would that be?
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. I disagree, he is not risking his neck. If so he would be taking on
the oil companies and exposing the privatization of Iraq resources.

Speaking in general terms as opposed to specific attrocities that happening now is no big risk.

Insurance providers are just waiting for mandated insurance.



Nationalists Stirring in Iraq "..blocking the privatization of Iraq's oil"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


"On January 13 an emerging Sunni-Shiite nationalist bloc in Iraq signed a groundbreaking agreement aimed at ending Iraq's civil war, blocking the privatization of Iraq's oil industry and checkmating the breakaway Kurdish state. It's a big step forward, and it could change the face of Iraqi politics in 2008..."

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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. He is. The other ones aren't because they want corporate funding money. nt
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. When will he start exposing the privatization of Iraq's resources?
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. The only one with more corporate money
than Edwards is Clinton, my problem with Edwards is

he makes out as if he is for the small guy,

but he is not, can't believe he voted for

patriots act. Is he going to apologise for that too,

Thats why the media are not taking him seriously,

he is a two americas.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. He is daily telling the truth about the Two Americas. Who else has dared to do that? Kucinich....
.... who else? I want this out in the open. I want people to start pointing their fingers at corporate America. That's what he's doing and the other two are not.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. His voting records
are definitely a suspect, this guy voted for everything DUers believed in,

then, because its election he is acting as if he is saint Edwards

and I'm going to rescue the people from the corporate thugs.

Give us a break!
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Cheney Killed Bambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. He does seem
kind of like the Dems' Mitt ROmney.
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Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
84. Thatt's exactly it.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
64. "Insurance providers are just waiting for mandated insurance."
Stop misrepresenting a candidate you don't like!

You don't have to like Edwards, but misrepresenting him in that way is reprehensible, and akin to the corporations themselves.

BASTA!
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Look how well the health care providers have done in the face
of this market downturn, many times the market will give clues to what policies might be forthcoming.

That was the basis for my comment, IMO the big money does not position itself after the news is released to the little guys.

Humana just hit an all time high a couple of days ago.

:)

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. You made a slam against Edwards that was untrue, and you know it.
Be a mensch, fess up, and have the spine to correct it.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. I explained the basis for comment...look at the charts yourself. n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #72
118. You KNOW "charts" have nothing to do with it.
Edwards made a promise to get the corporations OUT of health care, the same as Kucinich did. They just have a different way of doing that.

So stop making false claims.

You're not helping DU, you're not helping the party, you're not helping your candidate, and you're not helping the nation by making false claims.

Stop.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #118
123. And you know on what information I make my decisions? If you
believe what Edwards has promised then vote for him.

Kucinich and Edwards have a totally different approach to this issue.

I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. nor I you.
Good bye.

Oh, and good luck on those "charts" curing what ails you.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #64
94. all 3 have for profit health care but Edwards vows to push them out
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #94
119. And with a PLAN to do so! Edwards has NON-PROFITS to COMPETE.
It's time to talk about it honestly, if it's going to be discussed.

We complain about the corporate media twisting our words, but then we do it ourselves.
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I guess the paragraphs in the leader were just there for decoration.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. North America and South America?
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think he may very well be the DLC created "populist" VP candidate.
He can help Clinton win the primary and keep the progressive wing in line for the general election.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. that's my belief
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 08:06 PM by GreenArrow
Sometimes, anyway. Other times I think he's a self-serving huckster. Either way, I don't think he's on the up and up.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. read "Four Trials" and you will change your mind
Even reading his DLC speeches will change your mind.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. Had the same thoughts, especially after the last debate....
although I only alluded to it in this post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Thank you Chuck Todd for bringing up Edwards
"He was the heart and guts of the debate."


My reply...

Chuck Todd was the person who notified Kucinich of his exclusion
from tonight's debate. I wish that I could say that I'm surprised, but I am not.

Edwards has taken on the language of Kucinich, he just does not have the record.

Many people switched to Edwards because he was the closest to Kucinich, he was the alternate, against the corporations, recently he was ignored by the media etc. etc.

A couple of other words come to mind that both begin with an 'S' but then I would have to put on my tin foil hat.

We may have just been ________

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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #38
112. No tinfoil hat required. They had to have a plan to bring the
party together b/c they don't have the uniting factor (Bush) to unite the party. Seems to me that Edwards has done a lot more to help Clinton than hurt her. Furthermore, I think the Clintons and DLC would love to make fools out of the progressive wing. I think Clinton would have a hard time selling the populist message again (so they have Edwards sell it for them).

As Clinton is fond of saying about Edwards - he can talk an owl out of a tree. He's reminds me of Bill Clinton - he will lie with a straight face and will say anything to win.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #112
126. You have expressed what I have been thinking and I hope
that our instincts and judgment are wrong, but I am not willing to bet against them. :)

Feingold made a risky move, he did not have to say as much as he did. I'll be making my first donation to his Progressive Patriots Fund to show him support and because that is the direction I wish to see our party move.

Thanks for the reply.

:hi:







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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. He seems to be hopping on and off
as a veep, first he wanted to be Obamas running mate,

now his supporters are touting him

for Clintons veep. He is living the Senate floor life,

voting for and then coming out and

speaking against what he actually voted for.

How can you trust him.

Don't be a Mitt Romney. (two sides)
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seasat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
125. Actually, I think Edwards hurts Clinton in the primary.
Chris Bowers over at Open Left has pointed out that Clinton and Edwards both draw from a common demographic especially in the Southern States. They both pull from white blue collar folks. If Edwards dropped out, Hillary would receive more of his supporters, especially in SC. It could be enough to overcome Obama's strong African American support.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why isn't Russ running for President then?
I've always liked him and may have even supported him? :shrug:
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Cheney Killed Bambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. He took himself out of the running
over a year ago.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Why? He sounds perfect, or is he
running for VP :shrug:
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
65. He probably didn't want to subject himself and his familty to the punishment.
He'd make a great candidate though: solid progressive ideals combined with crossover appeal and a track record of actually getting things done.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #65
130. That would be my guess, he didn't want to go through the meat
grinder nor did he want to put his family through it. This is a reason why he would be great president.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ouch. I was wondering the other day why he was not quoting him, but this makes it clear.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. I like Feingold and wouldn't support Hillary in a million years
but I am not going to rip on him for anything. He is a good senator.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. If he came out in support of Hillary
I would have to give her another look. IMO it would be more of an indictment of Obama than support for Hillary.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. NOTHING would make me think about giving her another look.
I have seen plenty and I like very little of it.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
59. Russ is one of the most
feared man in the Senate, his decisions are

solid, so lets all hold our horses and

wait for the mighty one.

One thing I like about him, its his judgment,

He has been sound so far.

Not like others I know about....
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. That is stunning, Kucinich repeatedly said he thought Obama
was "sincere" when asked about his recommendation for the second ballot in Iowa.

Too bad Senator Feingold did not run as I would have no problems voting for him.



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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. Both Kucinich and Feingold ditching Edwards.
That says something.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Yeah, it says bitterness.
They can't carry the progressive flag, so they don't want anyone else to, either.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. Bullcrap....
and you know it, how can two progressive dump on the other

just for no reason, that alone should speak volumes.

Me think Edwards is playing both sides.

Its the feeling of epiphany
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
70. It does to me! n/t
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. I will give a lot of weight to Russ' choice
as I would have been campaigning my ass off for him were he a candidate.
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Cheney Killed Bambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Me too
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #22
92. Yeah, he picked Mukasey for AG. "Waterboarding is not torture"
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #92
100. you should apologize for spreading false information. he voted against mukasey.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. Me three.
With Wellstone gone, he's one of the last remaining servants of the people.
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. another 10 percenter speaks
if these fucks in washington were doing their jobs instead of passing meaningless, pandering legislation like the recent christianity legislation, i could take them more seriously.

seriously, the congress/senate have 10 percent approval ratings ... the same rating that Cheney has. therefore they are just as unpopular bunch of do-nothings as Cheney is! i think they all should just STFU.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. No kidding! If Feingold voted against the war, or wrote a bill to censure
the president, I'd have to listen to what he says!

Oh he did? Nevermind.
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. fact is that in the eyes of the american people he is a 10 percenter
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. He's smarter than 90% of everyone else?
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
67. WRONG.....
his peers are what makes the 10%, he is way above his peers

and you know it too.


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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. I just love the way you deal with what Feingold said about Edwards.
That's telling Senator Feingold, who happens to walk and talk like a true progressive. Yeah, just tell him to shut the fuck up. You don't want to hear any bad things about your boy Johnny.
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
86. whatever. in your dreams. he's a coward who does not walk the walk
all this talk pre-election 2006 about impeachment & where the hell has he been? AWOL as has conyers. everybody ducked & ran for cover. he wouldn't know a progressive if one bit him in the ass.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #86
114. Um. You know Feingold was running in '06, don't you?
And where was he calling for impeachment?

Show me. You really know nothing about Feingold at all, do you? You're just pulling it out of your ass.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
73. Truth hurts,
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 10:04 PM by spokane
I will do the same....someone telling the truth about me....sure, I'll tell them to
STFU! Why not.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. I really like Edwards
but I am torn because he does seem to demonstrate a lack of judgment with some of the votes he is now apologizing for. I'm no more settled on one candidate now than I was a month ago. It comes down to Hillary and Edwards for me.

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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. I don't get you,
are you suggesting that Feingold likes Edwards or YOU like Edwards.

What are you insinuating?
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. I'm not insinuating anything.
I'm saying that I like Edwards. I had just about decided to support him in the primary, but I've noticed that he seems to have made some very bad votes that he now says he regrets. It's a pattern that disturbs me. I haven't decided not to support him but I'm still unsure.

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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Fair statement n/t
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. read this:
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
54. Thank you....
the DU thread has some great information.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
46. And the lack of judgment has been on some serious issues...
Clinton/Edwards ticket has been in the back of mind for awhile.

Edwards takes on a more populist tone than his record suggests and he pulls voters away from the real progressive candidates...can't win the nomination and he supports or runs with Hillary.

It's perfect.

:evilgrin:


You can also read this FWIW

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

...he argued very persuasively for the Iraq invasion knowing that an intelligence report on Iraq's WMDS's was not up to date. Other senators on the Intelligence Committee sought new intelligence, instead one week later he gave a speech on the senate floor and then 2 weeks later he wrote the op-ed piece in the Washington Post urging quick action on the vote for Iraq.

Then his talk in January 2007 in regards to Iran...where's the evidence?

"...At the top of these threats is Iran. Iran threatens the security of Israel and the entire world..."







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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
28. Always liked Feingold. In fact, I talked him up a lot online. But he is plain WRONG here.
Notice how he doesn't attack Clinton for the same votes that he criticizes Edwards for? Except that Edwards is the one who has changed since then and has shown that repeatedly. Feingold just seems to be upset that Edwards didn't vote the way he did in the Senate, but it has been years and a war since then and I believe to my soul that Edwards is a very different person. The people who surround him also confirm that.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. I wondered the same thing. Also, it's one thing to represent N. Carolina
which is a very red state, and a very different thing to represent a blue state (like Illinois or NY) (or at least a purple one, such as Wisconsin), or to be free to articulate your own views without having to worry about representing people with whom you don't agree. Compare apples to apples, Feingold, and judge people by the same standards, and I'll be more impressed with your argument.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
32. Looks like the haters are out in force
:(
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Haters? More like truth tellers.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. They are both in this thread n/t
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
36. Russ nails it. This is my *exact* problem with Edwards.
When you had the opportunity to vote a certain way in the Senate and you didn't, and obviously there are times when you make a mistake, the notion that you sort of vote one way when you're playing the game in Washington and another way when you're running for president, there's some of that going on.

Now I don't necessarily think that Edwards was "playing the game." I think he really did believe the way he voted on those issues like the Patriot Act, IWR, NCLB, etc. Either he really believed in that legislation, or he wasn't smart enough to see what the impact of such legislation would be. Of course, not everyone is a Wellstone or a Feingold, but it sure helps if the President has a knack for that sort of thing.

To a lesser extent, I feel the same way about Hillary.
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
40. I see no way that Russ endorses Clinton
I am a huge Feingold fan, but I don't see anyway he could endorse Clinton. In the start of the book Feingold: A New Democratic Party it discusses Feingold and Hillary Clinton clashing over campaign finance reform with Clinton saying that cutting off soft money would kill the Democratic Party. If Russ endorses CLinton, I'd be very disapointed.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. Don't be shocked if he does -- Russ is pretty sharp and pretty progressive
And Obama's statements seem much more conciliatory toward the right than Hillary's ever have.

I am surprised and disappointed that he seems to dislike Edwards so much. Those statements seem to have some personal history behind them.

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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
75. But..but....Russ and Hillary
don't agree on so many things, it amazing he is even considering her....

my guess would be to keep the party happy. He is sharp and they know it.

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #75
85. If he hates Edwards, where else is he going to go?
Kucinich?
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
41. Feingold is afraid of Edwards. Russ must be a DLC guy.
Many In Congress love the lobbyists and their masters "gifts". After all go to DC and become very rich. Isn't that why so many claw their way to Congress? to represent the corps ?
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. ..........
:rofl:
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #41
97. That is likely one of the most nonsensical things I've read
You should read about what Feingold has had to say about the DLC.

It's not particularly complimentary.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #41
115. Uh, no.
:spray: So everyone who opposes your candidate is a "DLC guy?" Feingold is about as far from that as possible. Try again.
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rwheeler31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
50. This makes no sense the fix is in.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
57. Whether I decide to support
Edwards or Clinton is probably a moot point unless Edwards has a miracle comeback. If it comes down to Hillary or Barack then I will vote for Hillary.

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
58. Anyone who disses Russ Feingold because of his opinion is an ASS
Russ Feingold is the real deal. If Edwards fans want to trash him because he calls it like he sees it, then I wonder if they really care more about the Democratic Party than just backing a candidate.

I also think Russ Feingold was spot on. As always.


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rwheeler31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
60. You asked an awful lot of a first term senator.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #60
77. If you see that as asking
alot from a first term Senator, what would you say when he fucks up as President...
I wonder.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
61. I'll take that seriously
Russ is the only one who voted againt the (Un)Patriot Act. For that, he'll always have my attention.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
62. Thats why Edwards is considered a phony here in NC
He's like Mitt Romney. Say anything to get elected
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
82. Dude, dude, dude....there you go again, speaking for everyone in NC...
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 10:40 PM by timeforarevolution
with a blanket statement.

There are quite a few of us in NC who don't hear the Edwards dissing you hear.

AND, you're in Charlotte, with is a major corporate center. Could explain a lot if you only here negatives.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #62
95. You need to get out more... Those of us who live in North Carolina know better!
But then again you did not mention WHO considers Edwards to be a phony, or provide any links or evidence to back that one up.

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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. He's called Senator Gone in my part of NC
Which is Charlotte. And its the most liberal part of NC. Went to the Senate and we didn't see or hear from him in over 4 yrs. Until it was time for him to make his presidential bid. He is a PHONY. Kerry Actually won our county. So this isn't the conservative part of the state. He needs to be popular in this part of the state. And he's not
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #96
102. You are entitled to your opinion but 'Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill is most liberal part of NC'...
... and Edwards is very popular here, and throughout the State.

Are you a reformed Republican? (Since that was a Republican created criticism of Edwards)
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #102
108. No its not Republican criticism
Its the truth. The guy didn't come back to this area one time after he was elected and it still irks people. Not to mention he did nothing when he was in the Senate.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #108
111. Well your conclusions are unsupported by evidence, and your opinion is not shared by many in NC
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 10:48 AM by Blackhatjack
The Statewide Newspaper, The News & Observer, conducted a survey months ago addressing this criticism and found Edwards to be very popular.

And Edwards was involved in over 200 pieces of legislation with many of the most senior members of he Senate. You just need to do some research and you would find that your statement 'he did nothing when he was in the Senate' is untrue.

Sorry you are irked... I hope you get over it in time to vote for Edwards as the DEmocratic Nominee in the General Election.
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ncliberal Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #96
127. Excuse me?!?!
Charlotte is most definitely NOT the most liberal part of NC by any stretch of the imagination.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
66. Omg, thank you Sen Feingold for expressing my feeling about this whole election.
I am torn also.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
68. Problem is he's not describing Edwards - he's describing the Democratic Party
At the Senatorial level, this is what they are - with Feingold as one of the few exceptions. (Most of them vote the right way once in a while, only Feingold did on the USA PATRIOT Act.)

So let me get this right. Feingold attacks Edwards for saying the right thing after always voting the wrong way (which probably means Edwards is a phony, but at least he's saying the right thing). Whereas HRC did all of the same wrong things and still stands by it. How is that better? And Obama says no thing at all, and didn't have a chance to do all of the same wrong things, except he's tried hard to catch up with his votes since 2004.

For now, I'll go with the hypocrite who at least is currently speaking truth.
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undercutter2006 Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
74. oh snap, that's harsh
feingold is definitely one of the most upstanding politicians/individuals out there

i am still willing to give edwards benefit of the doubt though, because he freely admits that he was wrong. like in case of his vote for the iraq war, he comes out and says - look, i was just wrong, the administration gave us the wrong information and scared us into thinking that saddam was in possession of all these WMDs.

His official economic and social policies right now are a lot better than clinton's or obama's, who have been disengineous as well in the past, I don't whole heartedly trust Edwards, but he still gets my vote, but damn, I really respect Feingold and if he doesn't trust Edwards, that sucks
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. How are we to expect
Edwards to carry out what he is preaching.....his voting records
tells us not to trust him, already you're expressing dissatisfaction on
him getting a little pressure.
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undercutter2006 Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #78
87. well because he is better than the other two
you serioiusly going to argue that his attitude towards war is worse than clinton's warmongering has been?

he is not perfect, but he is still better than the other two, that's all their is to it IMHO
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ToeBot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
76. He may as well keep his mouth shut then...
If he endorses Clinton or Obama, he's pissing all over his 'progressive' credentials.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Hmm..
another sour grapes.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #76
116. Like Kucinich? /nt
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #76
117. Hmm. Interesting. He has the most progressive voting record out there and if he doesn't endorse your
guy he's no longer 'progressive'?

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
80. I like Feingold, except at moments like this --- Edwards isn't DLC . . .that's a plus ---
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #80
93. Doesn't accept corp $. Watch the telecom amnesty bribery in 2 wks
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Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
81. I feel the same way!
I go back an forth, back and forth.
But Edwards has done nothing but run for President. It really feels like he says everything we want to hear to get the nomination but has nothing to back it up. I thought he sucked as the vp nom in 2004. He disapeared and I thought he was weak against the big dick.
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BlueStater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
83. He has a right to his opinion but I think he's wrong
And, frankly, I don't find Obama sincere at all.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
88. So Feingold will throw his support behind Barack after he wins the primary, At least Kerry spoke up
when it counts!
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #88
103. Yeah, kerry is a stand up guy
rolled over when he WON ohio, with JE screaming that he needed to contest the outcome...I think kerry is a douch.


Oh, and nobody seems to care that the OP's points where explained in this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
89. There's no dilema. His last sentence is a dem talking point. What will he get out of it
Let's see how Obama and Clinton demonstrate leadership skills at taking on the big corrupt lobbyists bribing the senate right now demanding telecom amnesty for all their lawbreaking to get lucrative contracts from Bush admin.? Patriotic my ass, they shut down the wiretapping when FBI didn't pay the bill proving they could give a shit about National security only about their bottom line...only when being patriotic pays money huh?

Reid and Rockefeller and Feinstein have been bribed and bought off and Reid is such a traitor he's supporting Bush over Dodd's filibuster. He's betrayed the party big time for rushing to get Bush everything he calls for. Like the other centrists senate dems he thinks he's untouchable now and screw his constituents and the dem party...Might as well be a republican.
Watch Clinton and Obama ("I'll fight against Lewis Libby Justice") go right along with it in spite of saying they'd support Dodd. The senate is being bought off by corporate interests ...the very ones both candidates claim they can defeat.

At least Edwards has seen the light...doesn't accept corporate money...that says more than his voting record of long ago.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
98. they are really
afraid of john edwards...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #98
101. they have no reason whatsoever to be afraid of JE
What Feingold feels is clearly contempt- not fear. He's a real progressive and JE.. is not.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #101
113. "no reason to fear him?"
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 12:15 PM by DiverDave
Oh, I guess being marginalized by the corrupt news media says nothing...

You bet your ass they are scared of him, if he gets in they wont be billionaires any longer...
Don't you get it?

THEY OWN OUR COUNTRY, and Edwards is rattling their ivory towers

Who is gonna fight for me? a middle class slob that made more money last year(working 60-65 hours a week, 6 to 7 days a week) then I EVER did, and I'm STILL living week to week.

Yeah, obama will help me, AFTER he pays back the rich assholes that bought him.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
104. You can beleive what Edwards says or believe what Edwards does
Some of his supporters seem to think we should go with what Edwards says. Not me. What you do is what you believe in, IMO.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #104
106. Bingo. That's where I stand
He talks a good game but I'm very hesitant to trust him. I've never gotten a good "vibe" from him as everything that he says and does seems scripted for the audience rather than filled with substance. I know a lot of people would chastise me for saying all of this, but in reality I'm definitely not the only one especially in my area of the country.

As for my vote, it will most likely go to Obama. First time I can remember myself being undecided this far into the campaign.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #106
109. Even though I feel that way about Edwards, I would vote for him.
He's just not any different from most other politicians. There are several examples from all the other Democratic candidates when what they said, and what they did, were very different. Edwards is not my first choice, but he would be a fine president, IMO.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
105. Once upon a time I admired Feingold. Not any more.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #105
107. How ridiculous.
Feingold is a great Senator and a great progressive, and he has been for a long time.

I still have great admiration for:

Joe Wilson
RFK Jr


and many others who have NOT supported my candidate.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #105
110. You don't admire him because he doesn't like Edwards?
Your belief, Seabiscuit, in Feingold seems to me to have been very superficial, if you don't admire him because he doesn't think Edwards would be a good candidate or president.

You only admire people who agree with you on everything?
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
120. Guess I can delete that email from Feingold
asking me to renew my membership to his Progressive Patriots Fund.

I am, honestly, so sick of this shit. Why can't anyone make an endorsement without smearing whomever they didn't endorse? That goes for everybody. They're all Democrats, for fuck's sake. Let's leave the smearing to the Republicans instead of doing their job for them. Jeebus.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. Smear?
He called to question Edward's voting record - how is that "smearing"?

And, he withheld endorsement.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. It's the tone
and I realize he hasn't endorsed...merely because he can't pick between Hillary and Obama. If he was sincerely concerned about voting records, perhaps he should have noted that neither of the other 2 have perfect voting records on Iraq, NCLB, or China either.

But really, the point of my post was that, in my opinion, when a Democrat is going to endorse another Democrat, then he/she should do just that. Endorse them, champion them, and then STFU about the others. No need to go into what he/she feels are the negatives of the other candidates. In this case, since he doesn't even know who he's going to endorse, then he should have kept his mouth shut until he decided who he was for.

I am just sick to death of the "eat our own" mentality. By the way, that goes for people who endorse Edwards as well.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
128. I love Russ, I wanted him to run...
but I disagree. He's a progressive. Hillary is not. How could he support her?
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
131. So-called "progressives" are at it again...

stirring up fights within the progressive community so that their favored neocon candidate has a better chance to win. Most "progressives" in this Congress are "all hat and no cattle" when it comes to their support of Bush. Feingold wants to make nice with the frontrunners because he knows that being labelled a "progressive" is dangerous in these times.
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