I was just telling my Republican mom about the situation at Walter Reed...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

She told me that it sounded like something Hillary had made up as a way to disparage our Wonderful President, and didn't believe that it was true. She said it probably wasn't as bad as my left wing media outlet of choice made it sound, and acted like she didn't care. I knew my mom was a hag, but to act as if the way that they're treating these wounded soldiers is OK is crossing a line I didn't know she'd ever cross. What is wrong with these republicans?! I'm just...flabbergasted.
Duckie

[LoZoccolo]

1. I think they often have some hidden reason that supercedes all these other things.

Try to find out what hers is. You find some surprising things towards the roots of some of these Republicans' political beliefs; weird conspiracy theories and stuff that they believe but aren't confident enough to talk about.

[SharonAnn]

29. "The Authoritarians" and "Conservatives Without Conscience"

I'm reading this book and it has explained so much to me. I've tried everything, and I'm pretty good at group dynamics and organizational behavior stuff, but some of the Republic right-wingers I know continually leave me "bumfuzzled". It was as if we deal in different realities with different "truths" and different rules of logic. Well, that's actually what it is.

Anyway, I've basically cut off communication with a couple members of my family since 2000, we only have minimum contact. Life is easier. One of them was my Dad. I "divorced" him. Psychologically, it was the best thing I ever did for my relationship with him. It gave me a certain distance, and ability to step away from his world-view and dysfunction, and still maintain a limited, arms-length relationship. Sort of liking trying to have a "decent" relationship with your children's father after the divorce. Here I was trying into have a "decent" relationship with my mother's husband, but have no emotional investment any longer.

With my sister, the R-W nut-case, I just now and say "Now, you know that's not true!" and leave it at thata. Actually, I avoid her as much as possible, since she's seriously wacky. However, my other siblings and I get along fine.

From Glenn Greenwald:

Bob Altemeyer is a Professor of Psychology at the University of Manitoba, and has become one of the world's leading experts on the psychological dynamics which fuel authoritarian political movements and their followers. John Dean's best-selling book, Conservatives Without Conscience (which I reviewed here), relied on substantial amounts of Altemeyer's research.
Now, Altemeyer has written his own book, The Authoritarians, which expounds on that research. He is releasing the book chapter by chapter for free online, and the first six chapters can be read here http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/%7Ealtemey / . I have read the first three chapters and highly recommend them. The book provides real insight into the political movement which has been ruling our country for the last six years -- a movement which has at least as much to do with psychological drives as it does public policy and geopolitical considerations.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?last_story=/opi... /

[magellan]

2. It doesn't fit her belief system, therefore it isn't true

I'm sorry to hear your mom is like this.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

7. We've been getting along better lately than we ever have.

I knew she'd fuck it up eventually. Even after all the hell she put me through, I finally put myself out there again, and she totally ripped the rug out from under me again. I thought we were finished with this. I just need to make a clean break from this woman. I've been needing to do it for years, but I'm all she has left. She was making an effort, we were getting along better, and so I thought we'd finally turned a corner. And then she calls me a liar again. This is rough.
Duckie

[magellan]

27. You've got a tough decision to make

Is your relationship with your mom worth refusing to talk politics with her? See, I went through something similar with my dad last year, and since then I've sworn to hold my tongue about politics around him just to keep the peace. But he's not a Republican, he's an indy like me, so it isn't quite as contentious as your situation. And we have a solid relationship. So it's worth it to me.

On the other hand, I broke off speaking with my aunt two years ago for reasons that sound similar to yours with your mother. My aunt's a Repug, and also has a bad manipulative streak (my mom's side of the family are all like that). I decided I needed neither of those things in my life anymore. Hard as it was to do, I don't miss the interaction a bit.

Since it's your mom and politics isn't the only point of conflict, maybe it's time to "have it out" with her. I went through my entire young life squelching my identity to get along with my mom and learned two important lessons: it isn't worth losing yourself to satisfy another person, and it isn't real anyway so why do it?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

33. See, my mom isn't one of those people who agrees to not talk about stuff.

I can agree, but she's allowed to do whatever she wants because apparently giving birth to me means she has a license to treat me like shit.
Duckie

[Maat]

41. Been there, done that.

I divorced my mother, and didn't talk to her for twenty years or so; then I thought she'd changed. One split second, and she's managed to screw my sister and I out of family funds for ten years or so. A leopard never changes her spots.

Take care (I've been there)! By the way, my mom loves Dubya, and thinks O.J. didn't commit the murders.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

52. Sorry about your mom. That's TERRIBLE.

My mom is racist and thinks OJ did do it...She still whispers and says COLORED PEOPLE.
Duckie

[Maat]

60. You can't win with close-minded seniors!

Oh, well! I'm close to my sister.

[Cabcere]

13. Bingo.

I think you've hit the nail on the head - those types of people (no disrespect intended, Duckie) seem to have a very rigid worldview, and a very low tolerance for any sort of cognitive dissonance. It's unfortunate, especially when important things like veterans' health & living conditions are at stake. :(

[durtee librul]

65. If you like, I can send her

my Dad's address and he is a WWII vet who can tell her the REAL war horror stories and fill her in on what he has seen first hand and encountered with Ms Pickles and the twins at WRH and he can also tell her how he won't go there anymore becuase of the horrors he has seen with not enough beds and boys in the hallways and all the other 'great care' the self professed 'PATRIOTS' have provided to our boys....but then, you're right, she probably has her own private stash of George juice that she drinks daily to keep her regular.

[muntrv]

3. I'm guessing the pictures of Walter Reed in it's squalor won't convince her.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

8. She'd just say they were made up or something, I'm sure..

And she doesn't like technology. My computer freaks her out.
Duckie

[Cha]

26. I'm wondering if the bushits ever

implemented Martial Law if people like your mum would ever wake the fuck up?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

34. She'd welcome it.

[oldtimecanuk]

4. LOL.. I have one of those for a mother-in-law... ugh.... Black is White...

and White is Black with her.... She and I have had many go arounds with respect to politics.... You get to the point where you just shake your head and walk away.... What the hell else can one do?

ww

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. It sucks so much to be wrong that they'll never admit wrongness...

No disrespect meant to your mom; I have an aunt exactly the same.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

10. None taken.

You're absolutely right, too.
Duckie

[Cleita]

6. Too much Kool-aid?

They seem to have suspended reality and logic years back. Black is white and white is black again. It doesn't make sense unless they really believe that the GOP is really GOD. Of course if it comes from GOD, it doesn't have to make sense or even be moral because it's the will of GOD.

[k_jerome]

9. its true. Hillary also got the writers on 30 Rock to slam Obama. she's right. nt.

[ClayZ]

11. Your Mom and my Mom, sound like birds of a feather!

Let them eat cake with their Kool Aid!

:-(

[ziggy_luv]

12. brain washed

[Monkeyman]

14. Go to this site and download

http://www.vawatchdog.org show her the truth

[Prophet 451]

15. Sorry about your mum

She seems to have drunk some of the Christopublican Kool-Aid. Republicanism today is far more a religion than it is a political stance.

[BayCityProgressive]

18. Ive noticed

A LOT OF THEM DON'T EVEN WATCH THE NEWS AT ALL ANYMORE. They just KNOW Bush is right. One girl I work with tried to tell me Hillary tried passing a health insurance system where if you didn't go to the doctor when you were scheduled, you would be thrown in jail. She seriously believes this. This is what we are dealing with. No ammount of horror will change their minds. Our country is a facsist state...we are too late in saving it. I fear many of these people will become violent like the Minutemen.

[Raksha]

49. Good observation. I never looked at it that way before

(although I should have) but you're absolutely right. Of course, they say the same thing about us!

[Prophet 451]

57. But of course!

Thing is, the accusations that liberalism is a religion rely far more on hyperbole than actual evaluation. Whereas I can lay out in a few seconds the core doctrines of modern Christopublicanism: They have saints (Ronald Reagan, GW Bush, Friedman), holy texts ("The Earth Is Flat"), preachers (Rush Limbaugh) and even a devil figure (Bill Clinton, natch). In the same way as Mormons describe themselves as Christian (which is not to say they aren't but from an academic POV, there are enough differences to qualify as a faith in it's own right), Republicans almost universally claim to be Christian but their version of Christianity seems to focus far more on rage, hatred and a sense of persecution than on actual teachings.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that most Bush supporters personally supported things like Kyoto, non-proliferation and teh ICC and therefore, assumed Bush did as well. Once you stop thinking of it as a political stance, it starts to make sense. No amount of contrary evidence will change their minds because these assumptions do not rest on evidence, they are doctrines of faith.

All of which is not to slight believers generally but at least my own faith doesn't make claims which can be contradicted by opening The Independant every morning.

[Ilsa]

16. And the worst situation is less about living quarters, and more about

follow-up care, case management, transitioning from Army to VA, and other details like that that provide for hassle-free assistance when seeking medical care. Who wants to rewrite their life's story and produce a truckload of documents to prove that they are who they say they are and deserve the benefits?

[baldguy]

17. You mean that she's saying - IT'S ALL CLINTON'S FAULT?

When are these people going to hold the GOP responsible for their actions?

[jumpoffdaplanet]

19. Have your mom read the Army Times articles

Like this one:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/tnsmedboards070217/

And then ask her if it's just the liberals lying.

[jerryme1]

20. Iraq better than WRAMC

My living conditions in Iraq were better than some of those at Walter Reed.

[redwitch]

22. wow.

Glad you are home and glad you are here! :hi:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

23. Welcome to DU, Jerry!

And thank God you made it home safe! :hug:
Duckie

[tnlefty]

24. Welcome, jerryme1!

Hope that you are okay. :hi:

[newyawker99]

32. Hi jerryme1!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[deadparrot]

38. Welcome!

Glad to have you here with us! :toast:

[Bryn]

47. Welcome to DU

I also hope you're okay. :hi:

[tnlefty]

21. I feel for you YellowRubberDuckie.

I have a family full of republics and I will never forget when one of my older brothers told me in relation to the torture at Abu Ghraib "i think all of this is just made up to make bush** look bad" and "you're just mentioning all of this human rights stuff and these organizations that you say have documented this 'cause you hate bush**", facts be damned in other words.

I've lost respect for a lot of my relatives during the past few years, and I understand that it's hard.

This brother is 50+ and a CPA, and I really thought that he could analyze and reason and this is not the guy that I grew up with. :hi:

[DKRC]

25. You're not alone.

I have Repug parents who defy description. After my Mother's non-response to New Orleans, I don't even talk to her about anyone suffering under this criminal administration. Her mind, like Barb's, is too beautiful for such things.:puke:

My G'mother just shakes her head and says "Your Mother just ain't right. I don't know what happened to her."

[dflprincess]

28. I love your grandma

She sounds like my aunt. My aunt has 8 kids - all good Democrats except one. And that one sounds like your mom. My aunt just shakes her head and says "You love them the same, you raise them the same and still one goes bad. I don't know where I failed."

[DKRC]

31. She regularly has to kick them outta her house for rampant meaness and stupidity

Then she calls & we have a good talk about the latest Bush-loving Repug BS they've tried on her.

:evilgrin: :rofl: :evilgrin:


She can't read or write so I keep her up to date on what's really happening. She hasn't trusted the TV news since Cronkite retired.

[peacetalksforall]

30. Does she watch Pat Robertson?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

35. Not only that...

She gives them money! But when I first got out of college if I asked her for a dime she flipped her lid. Her priorities are FUCKED UP.
Duckie

[onethatcares]

36. well, Clinton got a blow job,

so anything the pretzeldent and the repubs do is much better than that. It doesn't matter if they string returning soldiers out on heroin, or anything else. The blow job strikes fear in the heart of the american conservative.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

37. My mom LOATHES Clinton.

And still thinks him getting a blow job and lying about it is worse than lying to get us into a war and getting hundreds of thousands (millions?) Killed.
Duckie

[Ladyhawk]

39. My condolences.

I don't even want to know how my Republi-Mom feels about it. She doesn't know how she's supposed to feel until Rush, O'Lielly and Pat Robertson tell her. She was mad about how the media had treated the boy who had been kidnapped for several years. I haven't had the heart to ask her how she feels post-O'Reilly's opinion.

I feel like my heart has been pierced with a poison arrow. Every morning I thank the Divider-in-Chief for breaking my family apart.

[wordpix]

40. my bro & his wife were telling me it's perfectly possible Libby "just forgot"---this is after 9 wit-

nesses basically all said the same thing---they heard Plame was a CIA agent from HIM. My bro and his wife also said there's nothing wrong with fighting for freedom around the world.

And he's a Harvard grad.

[Maat]

42. I love threads like this - they are SO cathartic for me.

I realize I'm not the only whose relatives are the craziest Kool-Aid-drinkers around!

[Kajsa]

43. She's very much like my mom, Duckie.

They only believe what they want to.
It's the difference between not understanding
and not wanting to understand.

They have the latter.

Hang in there!

:hi:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

59. I will never understand it.

Thanks for the encouragement!!
Duckie

[Martin Eden]

44. cognitive dissonance

or just plain old denial

[Bryn]

45. You have my deepest sympathies

My mother is exactly same way. Bush can do no wrong. Any Republicians can do no wrong. Any news other than Fox are false. I believe people like that are mentally ill, sad to say. :(

[Bryn]

46. Forgot to add:

My Mom listens to those TV preachers like John Hagee, Pat Robertson, etc. and gives them LOTS of money. She thinks it's her ticket to heaven. Sometimes I feel like to sue those TV preachers who preach about politics for brainwashing my mother. This has to STOP. A good preacher should be a good teacher..to teach about Love, Compassion, Charity, Help others. Not preaching about end times and how Bush is "Man of God"

edited to add: Mom also loathes the Clintons. We live right here in Hot Springs, AR, boyhood home of Bill Clinton. She even knew his mother who went to same doctor for cancer treatment. As you know Clinton's mom died of breast cancer, Mom survived bladder cancer.


And she watches Bill Oh Really faithfully

[never cry wolf]

48. Is she a dittohead like my mom?

My dear sweet mom is 84, college graduate with a Drama major, English minor. She is no dummy, but listens to Rush religiously.... I just don't get it...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

54. My mom thought he was wonderful...

Not so much anymore...she's more into O'Reilly now. I asked her if she'd noticed how contradictory to himself she was, and she got so pissed at me.
Duckie

[NMMNG]

50. Aye

And Hillary made up the footage of the atrocious conditions there, and the interviews with staff/patients too. Some people are so far in denial they are beyond help.:crazy:

[B Calm]

51. Tell her REPUBLICANS screw up the system,

then don't do anything to fix it. They sit on their asses and wait for the Democrats to take office to do what's needed to keep the country operating - then the REPUBLICANS that caused all the mess in the first place sit back on their fat pimply hemroidal asses and point their bony shit faced fingers at the totally innocent Democrats.

[greenbriar]

53. that is where you show her actual pictures and comments from those there

then show her how the right is spinning it...

[Venus Dog]

55. Join the club

Before the election, my husband told his mother that if she voted for a Republican, she would have the blood of her grandson on her hands (he was in Iraq at the time). She voted Republican. These are some pretty warped, twisted people.

[mnhtnbb]

56. My mother, the Republican, when I told her JFK had been assassinated, replied, "It's about time."

Welcome to the club of children who grew up with unempathic mothers.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

58. Oh my God...

I would have lost my shit and gone hypersonic. I am still screwed up about the JFK assassination and I didn't live through it. Who says shit like that?! That's terrible.
Duckie

[mnhtnbb]

64. I was 12--in 7th grade--and I remember it like it was yesterday. It was the moment

I realized that I could never be like my mother.

[MrMickeysMom]

61. Are you (any of you) encouraged to "take it to the line"

I guess what I'm askin is if you can live with this. I'm so lucky because even though I don't get along for one reason or another with all of my immediate family, we all seem to share political views. It's the glue that keeps us together. I just don't know what I'd do with your situation.

Are you willing to "duke it out?" Is there a way to a point to be made, make debate this with facts? I realize you'd have to talk about this on "neutral" ground. Do you think it's possible. :o

Also, my mother was born in 1914, and I, 1953. We probably could exhange opposite viewpoints without it becoming heated. Are you from a different generation, and does this seem to make the difference?????

[daviscn]

62. I gave up a long time ago....

Talking sense to these dead-enders (to borrow their own term) is useless, beyond words. They deny the existence of any facts that pierce their little rightwing echo chambers, and when news is presented that should outrage any warm-blooded American, they choose to ignore it. Fortunately, the truly hard-core among them is now representing about 30 percent of the electorate, and that number shrinks daily.

[riderinthestorm]

66. Nope. It's not possible to debate rationally. My mother is a freeper.

She only watches Fox, believes in GW Bush as a religion, tells me outright that she would petition to get "negroes" out of living on her street (as if she is so threatened in her white-bread, upper middle class, homogenous neighborhood), and wails about the destruction of those poor "babies" (cough) being killed for stem cell research etc. etc. etc.

:puke:

I have a brother in law exactly like this as well (he goes even farther, actively baiting me into arguments with comments about "boons", "niggers" and worse). We only get together for Christmas dinner and even then, it is barely civil with pleasantries about the weather only allowed. I hate that my family relations are so awful but their values are so grotesquely out of alignment with mine, sometimes it's just easier to stay away.

Cutting off family is a tough choice. For me, it is the only choice - there is no neutral ground. Their opinions are so extreme.....
Peace!

[DesertRat]

63. She's just had too much Kool Aid

[Pattib]

67. I'll just say it, I work with a lot of dumb people

My office (medical) consists of eight women total. All are racist, most are Bushbots and all believe everything they hear from their ministers. I am in the panhandle of Florida. Not by choice. My husband retired from the Navy in 97 and was offered a job in this area so we moved. We are both from the North. It has been a nightmare. We barely associate with the people here. It is like living on another planet. I would love to move, however, I have two kids in college and it just isn't possible at this time. I told my husband, "please, if I die here, do not bury me here". I was in the Navy for six years (eary eighties) and even in the Navy I had some liberal friends. Not here.

It is so discouraging to go to work daily and hear the things these people believe. First, everything good that happens, ie. lottery ticket win, electricity not getting turned off, hurricane missing us is because of Jesus. I swear, at Christmas one of the women opened a gift from that stupid Secret Santa and proclaimed it was because of Jesus. It was a candle. What totally baffles me is the fact that seemingly inteligent (not my co-workers) people, people with degrees, people who read and watch/listen to the news are so unaware. Even worse, there is a lack of curiosity about everything.

I am constantly correcting the people in my office when they blatantly utter complete lies. Lies they heard from a relative which have no factual basis at all. I told my husband that I know they talk behind my back when I leave the room. They stopped using the "N" word because I lost it one day and told them that I would file an incident report if they continued to use that word.

OK. end of my rant. BTW, just to be fair, there are a few other liberals in the office. Mostly doctors and a few nurses. We console each other as much as possible. I am lucky that my parents are not Repugs. I come from a long line of liberals. So, at least I have that. My parents have offered us money to leave here. My kids are both in FL colleges so I want to be close until they graduate. 2 more years. I can taste the freedom already.