Has Edwards addressed the concerns raised by Kucinich

[leftofthedial]

in Dennis' "non-endorsement" of Obama in Iowa?

see item 3) below:

Dear Supporter,

For the record:

1 ) New Hampshire is the first state where we are aggressively campaigning. Due to the Party lockout in Iowa, we chose to focus on New Hampshire.

2) I am the only person running for President who voted against the war, against funding the war 100% of the time, against the Patriot Act, and who stands for a universal single-payer not-for-profit healthcare system. Nevertheless I was excluded from Saturday night's ABC Presidential debate, or four tone monologue as it was.

3) In answer to your questions about why I didn't support former Senator John Edwards on the second ballot in Iowa: I have serious concerns about his connections to a Wall Street hedge fund, Fortress Investment Group. While attacking others for accepting campaign money from Washington lobbyists, he is up to his ears in money from Wall Street special interests. He made half a million dollars in a single year for attending a few meetings for Fortress and has invested a substantial part of his own personal wealth in the hedge fund whose portfolios are responsible for sub-prime predatory lending practices, Medicare privatization, and an entire range of corporate sharp dealings that are driving the middle class into poverty.

While I indicated Senator Obama as a preferred second choice in Iowa, Progressives have fundamental disagreements with him and all of the other Presidential candidates on most of their major positions on the issues.

We must have the courage of our convictions to fully support and vote for what it is we really want. For once, we must realize our power, stop playing tactical games, and vote as a bloc - which, as you know, is what the religious right does and why they often win.

We Progressives are in the majority in this election. We will win only when we refuse to compromise and vote with integrity.

Dennis Kucinich

[LibraLiz1973]

1. This has already been posted on the DU

just saying.

[leftofthedial]

3. what? the email or the question?

I have not seen this question raised. Has Edwards responded to this?

[DesertRat]

2. Good question. k&r

[mac2]

4. The Patriot Act and Military Commissions Act

are both bad for America but Clinton,Edwards,Obama voted for them Why would Dennis Kucinich who voted against these illegal bills support any of them.

I preferred Dodd since he and Kucinich were the only two who thought we should have our rights and democracy back. It's not freedom and democracy when the lie of MWD took away or country.

Like the Republicans, I have no idea who I want for the President among the top candidates. They are all pro-war, anti-democracy, etc. It is the same old, same old. No change from the Police State we have right now.

Why didn't Dodd wait until the other states got to vote before he pulled out?

Why are all you DU members looking the other way and supporting them for President?

[cali]

12. Why spread misinformation? Obama did NOT vote for the MCA

And he made a very powerful speech against it. For that matter, neither did Clinton.



http://www.bordc.org/involved/concerned/votingrecords_detail.php?bill=16

[mac2]

28. Thanks for explaining about Obama and the MCA

Did he say he would return our Constitution and negate the Patriot Act II ever?

[Emit]

5. Edwards on the subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2610737&mesg_id=2611022

Not specifically to Kucinich's recent email but on the subject in general.

[AndyA]

6. I believe Edwards has divested himself of the Fortress investments.

He has also donated heavily to Habitat for Humanity, ACORN, and to a charity that pays college tuition for underprivileged kids.

If you'll do a search on DU, you'll see several threads that dealt with Kucinich's concerns about Edwards.

[frazzled]

10. He said he would, but did he?

One would think that if he had removed his $16 million from the fund, it would be big political news, but I cannot find confirmation of this anywhere. Until I hear otherwise, I will continue to believe he invests with Fortress.

As for the donations, for someone of his wealth, he should be donating millions. I haven't seen that either.

He also should be using his own money for his campaign. I haven't heard him doing that either. Makes me think he's not terribly serious. (Kerry not only sunk his own money into his campaign to be competitive, he mortgated his house; Edwards has a lot of house to mortgage).

[LucyParsons]

7. I am a longtime Kucinich supporter, but in the absence of such a candidate

of real integrity, I think Edwards is the best hope we have, even with his flaws. At least he has the right rhetoric. We can't expect a fight against the global corporatists from a candidate who won't even use the right rhetoric to begin with.

[Pastiche423]

9. The right rhetoric?

That is all he has - rhetoric. He's done nothing to back up that rhetoric.

[LucyParsons]

14. He "gets it" - runaway corporate control of our government is THE central problem

That's why we have no national healthcare, a massive war machine, sky high gas prices, shitty schools, crumbling infrastructure, etc., etc., etc. ad nauseum.

Kucinich has the right rhetoric and the details. Too bad he doesn't look like Mitt Romney.

[Pastiche423]

16. I agree w/your statement about Dennis Kucinich

But disagree about the he "gets it" comment. If he got it, then why din't he do something about it during the six years he was in the senate?

Why isn't there just one thing he can tout about his votes in the senate that match his rhetoric now?

[LucyParsons]

17. I said he wasn't the BEST

But he's the second best. The other candidates aren't even TALKING about this. Obama does, in very very (suspiciously to me) vague terms, and Hillary won't touch it (just like impeachment), because she's an accomplice.

I can hold my nose and vote Edwards.

[Pastiche423]

20. My nose was damaged too much in 2004

It can not endure more pain.

What has johnnyboy done?

[LucyParsons]

25. what has Obama done?

I'd say they are near tied. Hillary I cannot support.

So, there I am.

I hope to get to vote Kucinich.

[mac2]

29. I resent having Iowa and NH

determine if I get to vote for anyone other than Hillary or Obama.

[XemaSab]

35. I'm not so sure that he "gets it."

He only "got it" in the last year, ya know? Really convenient for elections to corner the angry progressive vote.

[last1standing]

8. He has answered that question.

He said he wanted to learn how financial institutes like Fortress move money and invest. He also said that making money wasn't that bad, either. I find it sad that so few people seem to understand that Edwards is talking about bringing people up from poverty, not saying that we should all descend down into it. He took a job and made some successful investments. I don't see that as a bad thing, in fact, I'd like to see more people able to do it as that is how you reduce poverty.

As for Kucinich, I've never been a supporter because he talks about love and peace and equality, but when the cards are on the table, his actions are extremely cynical. He makes a crass political move by supporting Obama (just like Edwards in 2004) and when rightfully questioned, makes feeble excuses about hedge funds. Does he really think that is more important than pulling troops out of Iraq or getting the best health care plan possible? Just as in 2004, Kucinich chose politics over principle and people should know that.

[leftofthedial]

26. so it doesn't matter to you what job someone takes as long as they make some money?

I know what Edwards talks about and I agree with him

This Fortress information troubles me though.

I couldn't disagree more with you about Kucinich.

[Blackhatjack]

11. Kucinich just keeps destroying all the good he brought to the Debate by statements like this...

He steps out and unequivocally announces he would consider runnning with Ron Paul. THen retracts.

He attacks John Edwards with disinformation that is inaccurate when everyone can clearly see how much corporate money has flowed to all the candidates... and Edwards has accepted none. THis just hurts Kucinich's credibility.

Then he is interviewed by Bill Moyers in a friendly environment, and objects to Moyers' assessment that Edwards is pushing the same issues that Kucinich has been railing about. Of course the issues that Moyers pointed out are the same for both Edwards and Kucinich.

Dennis needs to take a step back and realize the damage he is inflicting on himself by such gaffes.

[KittyWampus]

13. it isn't disinformation. It's entirely accurate. Dennis recognizes the flaming hypocrite Edwards is

Edwards invested in Fortress AFTER his supposed "evolution" into a populist.

He just had to amass more money no matter how it was done. And yet he takes public funding.

[Blackhatjack]

19. See post #18 -- and then I will accept your apology for smearing Edwards. n/t

[LWolf]

15. The good he brought to the debate....good one.

Of course, he didn't bring anything to the most recent debate, so neither did I. I don't really give a flying fuck what the rest of them have to say at this point. Words without substance.

I disagree with you about this statement. I do prefer Edwards over the other top two, so if you can provide some evidence to back up your claim of "inaccurate," I'm open to considering it. If DK isn't on my ballot by May 20th, then Richardson probably won't be either, which leaves me with Edwards or a write-in. So please...if you are going to refute the statement, provide the evidence. It could make a difference.

[Blackhatjack]

18. Here is exactly what is wrong with the Kucinich statement about Edwards...

Kucinich stated:

"3) In answer to your questions about why I didn't support former Senator John Edwards on the second ballot in Iowa: I have serious concerns about his connections to a Wall Street hedge fund, Fortress Investment Group."

This statement is fine. Edwards did work for Fortress Investment Group for a short period of time, and Fortress Investment Group handles 'investments' of all types --one of which was a hedge fund.

"While attacking others for accepting campaign money from Washington lobbyists, he is up to his ears in money from Wall Street special interests."

THis statement is categorically wrong. Edwards has fully disclosed every penny he received from anyone connected with Wall Street, and he has not accepted one dime from a corporate special interests group or PAC in his entire career. You can check the FEC reports for yourself.

"He made half a million dollars in a single year for attending a few meetings for Fortress..."

Kucinich knows nothing about what John Edwards did while in the employ of Fortress Investment Group, and his summary of Edwards duties and participation is just a ridiculous conclusion for which he has no supporting evidence.

"... and has invested a substantial part of his own personal wealth in the hedge fund whose portfolios are responsible for sub-prime predatory lending practices, Medicare privatization, and an entire range of corporate sharp dealings that are driving the middle class into poverty."

Edwards did invest a portion of his personal wealth with Fortress Investment Group, NOT IN THE HEDGE FUND which he alleges. When Edwards learned that any portion of his money was invested in any group that promoted foreclosure on Katrina victims Edwards pulled his money out of those investments immediately... AND THEN TOOK THE EXTRAORDINARY STEP of pulling substantial cash out of his own pocket to help the Katrina victims he learned were about to be foreclosed upon.

There is no evidence that Edwards EVER invested money in any investment fund that attempted to privatize Medicare, or attempted to drive the middle class into poverty.

While it is impossible to prove a negative(that something did not happen) Edwards has fully addressed all these matters publicly and Kucinich has provided no proof to back up his allegations.

If you need further proof, just search this site for previous replies to these lies, or go to www.johnedwards.com.

Hope this helps clear up this matter for you once and for all. Welcome to supporters of Edwards!

[frogmarch]

21. Good going, Blackhatjack!

I hope you'll start a new thread with your post.

[LWolf]

22. Thanks for your response.

It's helpful, and will give me some things to ponder as the primaries go forward.

[Blackhatjack]

24. You're welcome! n/t

[mac2]

30. Is Edwards going to negate the Patriot Acts as President?

Or is it going to be the same old fear and war agenda by both parties? I want it to stop.

[slipslidingaway]

33. Fortress has money invested in Humana, also see my reply #32

http://www.healthjournalism.org/health-news-details.php?id=98

[LWolf]

34. More interesting info.

I want to read the whole piece at your link in #32 when I get home from work tonight.

Speaking of which, if I don't quit now, I'll be late!

:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

36. I'm glad Kucinich raised the issue, sometimes it does not have to

be a 'direct deposit' to a campaign.

:hi:

"3) In answer to your questions about why I didn't support former Senator John Edwards on the second ballot in Iowa: I have serious concerns about his connections to a Wall Street hedge fund, Fortress Investment Group. While attacking others for accepting campaign money from Washington lobbyists, he is up to his ears in money from Wall Street special interests. He made half a million dollars in a single year for attending a few meetings for Fortress and has invested a substantial part of his own personal wealth in the hedge fund whose portfolios are responsible for sub-prime predatory lending practices, Medicare privatization, and an entire range of corporate sharp dealings that are driving the middle class into poverty."

[slipslidingaway]

32. Moyers' comment...Edwards now saying what Dennis has said

"Then he is interviewed by Bill Moyers in a friendly environment, and objects to Moyers' assessment that Edwards is pushing the same issues that Kucinich has been railing about. Of course the issues that Moyers pointed out are the same for both Edwards and Kucinich."


That would not be my interpretation of the exchange, transcript below.


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/transcript4.html

"BILL MOYERS: I know. But John Edwards talks more like you-- John Edwards has said, quote, I absolutely believe to my soul that this corporate greed and corporate power has an iron-clad hold on our democracy. I thought, "He must have lifted that right out of Dennis Kucinich's speeches." You say that all the time. And yet you said go for Obama, not for Edwards.

DENNIS KUCINICH: You know, I thought Senator Obama offered an approach and has the kind of sincerity that deserved recommendation only on that second ballot. Because when he comes to New Hampshire, I'm sincerely trying to get more votes than him."


How much money has Fortress invested in Humana through it's various funds???



http://www.healthjournalism.org/health-news-details.php?id=98

"...Before 2003 Humana, a regional company peddling health insurance, including HMOs, was hardly a household name. One of its policies had been a big money loser, and the company was struggling to dig its way out of a financial hole. Vice president Steve Brueckner called the MMA "an unprecedented opportunity to establish relationships," and his company made the most of it. Humana gained 4 million new policyholders and reported to stockholders in April that it had amassed "record breaking revenues." What's more, Humana has become a national brand poised to sell policies in the non-Medicare market, where people will increasingly be forced to buy their own health coverage, especially if an "individual mandate" becomes a solution for the country's healthcare woes..."



IMO some possible reasons for mentioning Ron Paul are because he has repeatedly attacked the Military Industrial Complex and the Neocons. These are not small enemies to fight.


"...Let there be no doubt, those in the neocon camp had been anxious to go to war against Iraq for a decade. They justified the use of force to accomplish their goals, even if it required preemptive war. If anyone doubts this assertion, they need only to read of their strategy in “A Clean Break: a New Strategy for Securing the Realm.” Although they felt morally justified in changing the government in Iraq, they knew that public support was important, and justification had to be given to pursue the war. Of course, a threat to us had to exist before the people and the Congress would go along with war. The majority of Americans became convinced of this threat, which, in actuality, never really existed. Now we have the ongoing debate over the location of weapons of mass destruction. Where was the danger? Was all this killing and spending necessary? How long will this nation building and dying go on? When will we become more concerned about the needs of our own citizens than the problems we sought in Iraq and Afghanistan? Who knows where we’ll go next—Iran, Syria or North Korea?

At the end of the Cold War, the neoconservatives realized a rearrangement of the world was occurring and that our superior economic and military power offered them a perfect opportunity to control the process of remaking the Middle East..."

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

[dropkickpa]

23. These two parts don't make sense to me

While I indicated Senator Obama as a preferred second choice in Iowa, Progressives have fundamental disagreements with him

We Progressives are in the majority in this election. We will win only when we refuse to compromise and vote with integrity.

He wants progressives to refuse to compromise and vote with integrity, but he's throwing his support behind Obama, who progressives, according to DK, have fundamental disagreements (maybe the whole McClurkin thing, wanting to find a middle ground with repugs and fundies, etc) with? :shrug: This just, yet again, confirms that DK is batshit crazy.

[dpbrown]

27. Dennis partners with the one he doesn't think will win but will affect support for the leader

That's what he did in Iowa in 2004.

I think it means he doesn't expect Obama to be the nominee.

[mzmolly]

31. I wonder if Kucinich has commented on Nader's concerns about the Obama endorsement?

I can no longer find the thread, but I wondered ... ;)