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Do you think Hillary is a threat to the Liberal movement?

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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:11 PM
Original message
Poll question: Do you think Hillary is a threat to the Liberal movement?
and yes, i can throw in a completely made up one too.

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary voted AGAINST the flag amendment.
This is just a desperate attack
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. but is it as desperate as this:
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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Difference is, mine contains the truth on his positions. Change your poll to reflect reality
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. It's exactly like your poll
And both these polls are pretty pointless, anyway. This primary/caucus season is about the candidates' stances on individual issues. Claiming any of them is a "threat" to liberalism is impossible, because they've all cast votes that could be construed as liberal, moderate, and conservative.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. She sponsored the amendment in question but later voted against
The vote failed by a single vote. They garnered 66 votes instead of the 67 votes needed to pass Congress.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. yeah, i know.
how f'n bizarre to defend her that way. :crazy:
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hillary ISN'T a liberal. She's a "progressive." According to her, anyway.
So how could she be either a threat or an asset to the liberal movement?

BTW, what IS the liberal movement? Does it have a headquarters? Is there a marching song? A slogan?

Dang, I'm outta touch. I've been a liberal for DECADES and I had no idea we were moving anywhere...

Why doesn't anyone tell me this stuff?

befuddledly,
Bright
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. The terms are synonymous today because the definition of "liberal" has been butchered.
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 07:31 PM by Selatius
Before the New Deal, liberals largely meant people who favored maximal freedom as far as economic regulations go. They favored a laissez-faire, no regulation approach to regulating the markets. They had faith that the free market would ultimately correct the abuses present during those times. They also tended to be more socially libertarian. Progressives back then meant people who did favor regulation of the markets, citing examples of rampant labor abuses, poor working conditions, unfair trade practices, monopolies and oligopolies, etc. Today's right-libertarian was once called a liberal back then.

It was FDR who co-opted the term liberal from the right. He did it to attempt to reach out to center-rightists to shore up his support for New Deal policies. Since then, the term has taken on a left wing connotation. In other countries, the old definition can and has remained unchanged. For example, former PM Howard of Australia and the Liberal Party lost in recent elections. The Liberal Party in Australia is a right wing party.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Isn't that the whole point of "third-way" politics?
to undermine the left, and move the country towards the "center" which happens to move further to the right with every compromise?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Pretty much.
Unless it's some sort of by-product.
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hillary backed Ginsberg fro USSupCT and you don't think that was Liberal?
The amount of ignorance shown of late by supporters of all the candidates is simply astounding! Are there really that many infiltrators on DU?
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. oh, she was a Senator then?
jeez, what other perks go with first lady status? :shrug:
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. It is so sad how DU is allowed to work against our own candidates
And Hillary is hated so deeply by "members and progressives" here.



Bastards all.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I for one support democrats.
I just do so with both eyes open.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'm-tired of these hit and run attack threads
You all got fucking Bush for 8 years, want Huckabee for 8 more? Keep fucking with your own.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It's the primary election, not the general election. This is expected.
It's less tolerable if there are only two options on the ballot box with the other option being the Repub.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. And how do you figure I deliver Republicans when I don't vote for them?
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 07:39 PM by mmonk
And no, I never vote third party. If I have an opinion, I will express it. If it seems negative, I'm sorry. If I ever produce an inconvenient fact, too bad.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Don't support her if she is the nominee, take your fucking jacks and go home
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 07:50 PM by DainBramaged
Like most here, narrow minded sycophants.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. you is teh smaht
:patriot:
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. It's rather obvious that DU doesn't consider Hillary "our" candidate.
Or, at least, the majority of DU'ers don't.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. And if nominated, the majority of DU'ers will turn their backs on the election
How fucking callous and immature are we as a political voice? Wait, most of you would suffer more years of Repuke rule than let the woman in the White House.

Insane
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Eeek!! The repubs will win the election because of DU!!
Methinks you overestimate the power of DU and some DU'ers who refuse to be bullied by the lockstep party purists.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. IT HAS everything TO DO WITH BEING CLOSED MINDED, not a purist
Jesus you don't see that? Go pine for you candidate and skewer Hillary. And then don't work for her if she wins the nomination. You be happy bitching here for 8 more years.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I'll be voting for my candidtate in the GE..even if I have to write his/her name in.
But, I have the quaint notion that my vote belongs to me, not The Party.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. your vote, is your vote
vote your conscience and not for some poll driven candidate. :patriot:
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. There are only about 38 consistent posters on DU at any given day.
However, I think she is a threat to progressives and liberals since she is a centralist in my
book. She is not right wing just a political centralist who tries to triangulate corporatists and union philosophies and goals at the same time for political power.

However, that being said, I find that position extremely uncomfortable when sitting on the fence of
today's pressing issues.

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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. then hopefully she's not the nominee
and you won't have to hold your breath and stomp your feet in vain. :hi:
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Which would make you and millions of Repukes very happy
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. and what would that make you?
sleep in the bed you made, and point the fucking finger at yourself. :hi:
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Likely, a good number of DUers will vote for her. About a third, possibly more, won't.
Those will either stay home or vote third party.

If Hillary is the nominee, I am liberated to vote third party or stay at home or even vote for her, since it's electoral votes that count, not popular votes. My vote won't count anyway, since I live in Mississippi. Winner-take-all means whatever I do, all of this state's vote will go to the Repub.
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. I know! It's like people have opinions, and they're expressing them!
Where do they get off!

Bastards indeed!
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. But don't raise a concern about Obama or Edwards, oh no, they are the chosen ones
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. Well, I have concerns about most of the Democratic candidates.
90% of the posts i've read that criticize Senator Clinton make valid points. And some are clearly attack posts.

The problem i have with *some* Clinton supporters, is that they make excuses and defend her no matter what. Even if she is clearly in the wrong.

No candidate is above criticism.

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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. How do you think Bush got nominated, a stupid asshole dumbass
who brought us 8 years of pain and suffering, because the REPUKES CAN HOLD THEIR NOSE and vote for the good of the party. And they profited at MY expense, but none of you see that.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. i see that to some extent
but your screeching posts aren't going to win votes. it only ensures there never going to her. :hi:
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. I like all the Candidates but I do wish some of them (Like Hillery) were...
..about 20 degrees more to the left ...still...they're a pretty good solid bunch.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. If Hillary is the nominee, it will hurt the liberal movement
Because no matter who wins will not be liberal. Worse still, if hillary wins, she will be painted as liberal even though she is not.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. There is no fucking Liberal movement anymore damn it
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 07:50 PM by DainBramaged
The majority of the population is aging baby boomers, and they stopped being Liberal when Reagan became dictator. Wake up.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. thank goodness i'm not part of that crowd
i'm a young liberal, and proud. i don't compromise, as i've done that too many times already in my voting life.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Don't compromise, let another election be stolen because of petty hatreds
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 07:59 PM by DainBramaged
Go ahead, keep working against Hillary (and Bill for that matter). Get just what you deserve. I'll be fucking retired while you struggle to find the perfect candidate to sit in the WH.


Your Progressive movement consists of Pelosi and Hide 'Em Harry Reid, two PUSSIES who are afraid of their own shadow.

Yup, the Liberal bowel movement is in good hands.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. yup, if we lose again because she's the nominee
shit your pants and blame the liberals. good luck with that. :hi:

nice use of female body parts too, by the way. :thumbsup:
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. HRC is Another Lieberman. n/t
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. With a strongly held Democratic House and Senate
Liberal bills will be sent up to Our Democratic President. She may not be as Liberal or Progressive(preferred) as our other candidates, but I don't consider her a threat.

It's a Democracy, we will always have to pressure our leaders to do what is right. Some require more pressure than others, some are more responsive than others.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ah HA! There has to be a way to find pity for Obama in this!
:evilgrin:
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. you should start a thread about it
:thumbsup:
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. Senator Clinton isn't a threat, and that's the problem.
She wouldn't threaten the republicans, she wouldn't threaten the status quo and she certainly wouldn't threaten the corporatocracy that threatens to destroy everything America is supposed to stand for.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. The DLC is supposed to "modernize" the progressive movement.
That statement is the single biggest piece of bullshit I've ever read in my life. Its supposed to crush the life out of it.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
48. locking
don't start another thread to continue an argument from another thread.
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