Florida: Pinellas School Board members join Polk members in support of Intelligent Design

[madfloridian]

being taught along with evolution in the classroom.

Let's spread the love around to the other counties. This is the first I heard about this bunch in Pinellas.

I have written often about the fact that the majority of the members of the School Board of Polk County support teaching Intelligent Design alongside Evolution. The new standards are not expected to agree with that stance.

Now we find out that the majority of the members of the Pinellas County School Board feel the same way.

Four School Board members would teach intelligent design alongside evolution.

A majority of Pinellas County School Board members think that if Florida children are taught evolution, they also should learn other theories on the origin of life.

Board members Jane Gallucci, Carol Cook, Peggy O'Shea and Nancy Bostock stopped short of saying that faith-based theories should be included in the state's proposed new science standards, which the Board of Education likely will vote on in February. They would include Darwin's theory of evolution but not faith-based theories such as intelligent design or creationism. But in interviews, all four said such theories should be taught in public school classrooms.

"I think that students should be given the opportunity to view all theories on how man evolved and let their science background and their religious background take over as to which one they believe in," said Gallucci, also the immediate past president of the National School Boards Association.

"To teach one as if nothing else existed, I think we're doing our students a disservice," Cook said.

So this board member is saying that one's religious background could easily trump science.

One of the board members is thinking very clearly on this subject. I very much like this comment from her. Astute and to the point.

Clark, a former middle school science teacher, said the proposed standards are a "step into the 21st century." She pointed to a recent study that found American students lagging behind many of their international peers in science.

"Let's start teaching the Bible as science," Clark said, "and then see how our students compete against the rest of the world."

And today I finally found something I had been looking for a while. I knew that the Polk County, Florida, School Superintendent was letting Creationism be taught at the discretion of the teachers, at their whim.

From 2005, after the Dover PA decision:

McKinzie: Polk Schools Teach Evolution, Allow Discussions of Intelligent Design

But Polk County Superintendent Gail McKinzie said she's not opposed to science teachers discussing or even formally presenting the controversial theory in science classes, so long as they don't exclude traditional science.

"I wouldn't want to say you must only teach evolution," she said. ". . . I think obviously evolution is based on scientific theory. But I'm also confident other explanations of how people have come to be on Earth provide other discussion topics."

Polk's science books, as do most science books, include sections on the theory of evolution. Evolutionary science says life today, including plants, animals and humans, developed through a series of small changes over very long periods of time.

The theory conflicts with the Biblical interpretation of the Earth's creation.

Excuse me, Gail McKenzie...this statement of yours gives the impression that the scientific theory is wrong, but you must be careful not to "dismiss" it:

But Polk County Superintendent Gail McKinzie said she's not opposed to science teachers discussing or even formally presenting the controversial theory in science classes, so long as they don't exclude traditional science.

That is very dismissive of the scientific theory. Sounds like Gail really doesn't like the scientific standards but must not appear to "dismiss" them.

[msongs]

1. they should just use the traditional method - murder all non-believers nt

[donsu]

2. this is important - messing with our public schools with this insane stuff

woe to us if we let this happen

[madfloridian]

13. Southern Baptists are pushing congregations in some areas

to leave public schools and home school or go to private religious school. This will probably give their movement momentum.

[lastliberalintexas]

16. If only they would

While in the long run it would be detrimental to our society to have a fairly large block of uneducated or undereducated religious zealots, I would in the meantime be happy for them to leave the public schools alone. But they won't because it isn't enough for them to raise their own children within the parameters of their religious beliefs- thay want to impose those restrictions on your children too.

[hobbit709]

3. Evidently extreme stupidity is contagious!

How these people cope with any science at all.

[Jim__]

4. "...they also should learn other theories on the origin of life. "

Ummmm, the scientific theory of evolution is not a theory on the origin of life.

How ignorant are these people?

[ladym55]

15. How ignorant are these people?

Very ... incredibly ... immensely ... stupendously ... immeasurably ...

I could go on like this for hours.

And this stupidity shows up across the country. My own children had to "teach themselves evolution" for their AP Biology exams because the AP biology teacher was a "Christian" and didn't believe in evolution.

[RedCappedBandit]

35. What dimwit hired a bio teacher who

doesn't "believe" in evolution?

How a person can claim to have any credibility in regards to biology or science in general while simultaneously not "believing" in evolution is entirely beyond me.

[truth2power]

37. Exactly. Evolution is about the change in populations over time. It says

nothing about the origin of life.

[unpossibles]

40. they are ignorant enough to mistakenly think that ID is a Theory

and that evolution has no evidence.

I am so sick of this, I want to scream. Anyone who doesn't know what a Scientific Theory is - after this being discussed nationally for the past few years - is being willfully ignorant or is being paid to be a propagandist. So if you don't make money for saying things like this, you're just being a sucker.

[blues90]

5. When I was a kid we lived in Pinellas

Right near St Pete and then in a place called Kenneth City . All I remember since this in the mid 50's is that being from Chicago and ridding on a bus for the first day of school over some small bridge I thought for certain I would never find my way back home . They used to serve us peanut butter sandwiches with no jelly on bread with milk .

I would really freak out if they were teaching intelligent design . What the hell sort of mindset do these people have in this day and age even thinking of some far fetched idea called intelligent design .

If religion is taught which it has , it was always in a religious school not in public schools , it was bad enough when we were forced to say the pledge to the flag with our hand across our chest .

[spin]

6. The biggest problem with intelligent design theory

is that it's being hijacked by religious groups to introduce their particular beliefs.

I remember my first biology class in high school. The time frame was in the sixties. We were studying how a simple leaf works, and I wondered if some form of intelligence was involved in directing the process of evolution that resulted in this little chemical factory.

I didn't immediately jump to the conclusion that this proved the Old Testament story of creation. It was just an interesting idea, totally unprovable. Through the years, I used these thoughts as a "what if" topic for entertaining late night beer conversations with friends, providing a break from the usual sports talk and the constant bragging about the women my nerdy friends had managed to (supposedly) seduce.

Since the intelligent design theory has surfaced and become slightly more "mainstream", I've moved on to other topics for the beer fest. I enjoy introducing the idea that aliens visited the earth in the past and manipulated DNA to produce a semi-intelligent species of ape to work for them. (We, ourselves, are approaching this ability.)

I wonder how would an instructor go about teaching intelligent design in a school environment? What proof could be presented? What questions would be asked on a test?

A course on comparative religion might be more useful, or perhaps a class on how religion has had both a positive and a negative impact on history.

Intelligent design is just speculation.

Speculation, as defined by answers.com is: "reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition".

[Toots]

11. Maybe you could supply a hypothesis or two that have been tested to get to

the scientific theory of intelligent design. I would be very interested..You do understand that the word theory in the contest of science is quite different than the word theory in layman's terms? To develope a theory it takes testing and testing and testing until nothing can be found to make it untrue...

[spin]

12. If I could, I would...

however, I don't believe anyone can. That's why I saved the topic for idle conversation. I use the term "theory of intelligent design" loosely, mainly because that phrase has been widely employed by its proponents. Perhaps a better way to describe the idea would be to call it the hypothesis of intelligent design. Even that might elevate it to a higher level than it deserves.

If there is a cosmic watch maker, he is very careful not to leave any evidence or fingerprints behind.

[unpossibles]

42. but ID is not only not a theory but has always been married to Creationism, not highjacked

Sorry - please do not continue misusing the word Theory when discussing ID, and also please be aware that the ID movement is and has been a part of Religious Creationism from the start.

[BuyingThyme]

7. My theory is that these people are fuckwads.

Are they opposed to teaching my theory?

[CK_John]

8. What I find funny is that most agr and rural areas have been cross breeding plants and animals

for eons to bring out their ideal traits. But this same group seems most opposed to gene evolution.

[Disturbed]

9. The The Hindu Theories of Creation must be taught in all Public

Schools.

The Hindu Theories of Creation

The development of early Hindu theories of creation coincided more or less with the evolution of religious thought in Vedic India. ...

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/concepts/creation.asp

[unpossibles]

43. plants and animals are different

</sarcasm>

If evolution is accepted then that means these rednecks are related to (gasp!) animals and (gasp! gasp!) non-white people! I honestly - and sadly - feel that is the largest hurdle for them.

[mainer]

10. Time for the pastafarians to show up!

if we teach one religious theory, we must teach all religious theories.

[kineneb]

17. Ramen!

Let them include- creation myths of Pastafarianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, and don't forget those of the...Celtic, Germanic, Egyptian, Roman, Greek, various African, Aztec, Olmec, Mayan, various Pacific Islands etc. traditions...


The representation of Ahura Mazda, from the Zoroastrian religion:

[ThoughtCriminal]

14. Are they willing to allow criticism of ID be included?

my guess they would really freak out if part of the discussion included arguments against ID.

[UncleSepp]

18. "Traditional" science?

Science isn't practiced as it is because it is tradition. It is practiced as it is because if it were practiced in any other way, it would not be science. Tradition is irrelevant.

[rpannier]

29. Traditional science...Definition...

One that requires empirical testing of observable fact to determine validity. Once the test has been completed, it must be re-tested again.
It is often re-tested by other scientists.

Non-traditional science (Intelligent Design): Read the Bible, believe it and shut-up about the discrepencies

[namvet73]

19. I think the "cdesign proponentsists" should also teach..

Buddhism, Islam and as many other religious beliefs as possible as to how we got here in their sunday schools. After all, we want to give the kids "scientific alternatives" don't we? I'm sure they would go along with that because the "cdesign proponentsists" are so fair minded. :sarcasm:
The base of all their fear is "because dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell" (See "act of contrition.") That is: do unto others so that you get your final "paycheck."

[Sancho]

20. This is not new, just getting attention. In 1976 I taught public school science;

the school district removed the Evolution volume from the Science reference books in the class. Our superintendent was a retired Baptist minister and every Wednesday a certified teacher taught "social studies", but it was a pure Bible class. That was in SC.

I don't think some of our Pinellas school board members could get elected if they didn't at least publicly state that they would teach creationism. That is especially true in some "conservative" areas.

The thing that is fouled up is when the School Board 1.) starts calling creationism "science" or 2.) requires everyone to learn it. There are very few subjects that everyone has to study besides the 3 R's, and even those have some pretty diverse curriculums. There's almost nothing that parents can't object to and remove their child.

Just like the Flying Spaghetti Monster, this is a slippery slope. It opens the door for everyone to have courses on Hinduism and Confucianism and just about anything else. I hope the Board is not so dumb as to adopt such a curriculum. I'm sure the school board attorney has mentioned it.

Obviously, there is no teacher certification in intelligent design unless we start sending the teachers to seminary. Chances are that even if I had taught intelligent design, a minister would find fault with my "theology" as soon as we got to gay rights or abortion or something. If intelligent design is taught as literature, someone would object to the sex and violence, having to learn Greek and Hebrew, or something else.

If people want to learn about intelligent design, they should go to Sunday school. There are LOTS of things we don't teach in school, just pick up a Boy Scout or Girl Scout manual and you'll see a bunch more...Tarpon Springs in Pinellas has lots of kids who attend Greek school in the afternoons after the regular day is over.

[DCKit]

21. We need a map of those areas which have become black holes of ignorance...

and fundamentalist influence.

No responsible parent should move into one of these areas uninformed of the fact that they'd be setting their kids up for failure.

[marmar]

22. The War on Brains?

Was the fall of Rome accompanied by extreme religiosity and anti-intellectual fervor?

[wizstars]

23. I think we should also teach my theory of "Un-intelligent Design"...

...ie that God (or whomever) was drunk or stupid at the time he created humans, and just f#@*ed up. This would explain so much: right-wingers, IDers, the bush admin......

[trotsky]

24. "Goddidit" is NOT a theory, IDiots.

"Let's start teaching the Bible as science," Clark said, "and then see how our students compete against the rest of the world."

Fucking Jesus fucking H. fucking Christ. We are so screwn.

[riona]

25. Our state should be cut off at the border & forced to drift off to sea

[davidinalameda]

26. I believe in ID but I don't think it should be taught in schools

especially in science classes

there are just too many things in nature that can't be explained away by saying that they're coincidences and that there was not some divine force guiding creation

can I prove any of them within a scientific framework-doubtful

[seasat]

27. We saved that St Pete Times article so we'd know who to vote against

I'm a Scientist and my wife is a HS science teacher. While we are both Christians, we vehemently oppose the teaching of intelligent design or creationism in school science courses. It is not a scientific theory or even a valid scientific hypothesis. A scientific hypothesis is based on observations of an event and has to be testable. You then attempt to disprove your hypothesis. If you cannot disprove the hypothesis, then you publish the results and others attempt various tests of the hypothesis. If the hypothesis passes then it is accepted as a theory. To truly test intelligent design, you'd have to have a test for the existence of God. That is not possible. There is no scientific experiment that can one can come up with to disprove the existence of God. That is why intelligent design should only be taught in a comparative religion class if at all.

Under Christian teachings, it is considered a sin to test God. Those supporters of teaching intelligent design are not only ignorant of science but are ignorant of scripture too.

[rpannier]

28. I'm getting a teaching license,moving to Florida and teaching science

I will teach two controversial, yet just as plausible theories:

1. We were created by a giant spaghetti monster

2. That I am the Creator of the Universe and all good life that exists and that the Bush family are the EVIL dynasty

[Solly Mack]

30. Generational ignorance

[Irishonly]

31. I just don't understand

why fundies can't or refuse to understand that science is not an enemy. I am Christian and I think Creationism and Intelligent Design have got to be some of the most stupid things I have ever heard of. Yes, the Bible is supposed to be the word of God but men wrote it with all of their faults and biases. The Bible if full of stories and parables and is supposed to be used as a teaching tool. I can't remember what you call it but these fools act like man didn't have a thing to do with writing-they just put whatever they were writing with down, closed their eyes and God did the writing. How many times have biblical scholars discovered that parts of the Bible were translated incorrectly?

I would also like one of them to explain to me on exactly which day God created dinosaurs or how Adam and Eve managed to avoid raptures in the Garden of Eden. People used to think the world was flat and with the exception of the lady on the View most people realize there is a universe. I don't believe there is any way when Genesis was written that they could even guess there was a whole lot of world outside of the ME.

I am an old fashioned parent. I don't believe the school is responsible to teach my daughter about faith. The schools are supposed to teach academics. The last I heard science was an academic. When parents bitch and moan about other religions being taught I just shake my head. Learning about religion from ancient civilizations isn't going to cause any child to start worshiping Isis. When you are talking about the Crusades, you can't teach it without learning about Christians wanting to to convert Muslims and if you don't know Muslim beliefs you can't understand how wrong the Crusades were. The school boards, whether they admit it or not, are not trying to teach different theories. They are trying to teach Christianity is right and all other religions, agnostics and atheists are bad. It is not the job of teachers to instill values although I believe kids pick up a teachers values. It certainly isn't the job of the schools to indoctrinate.

:rant:

[KharmaTrain]

34. It's Being Right Even When You're Not Right

For some religion has nothing to do with faith, but with power and influence. The bible is a tool in achieving fame and their weapon in maintaining. They develop some "insight" into the scriptures or find some modern connection or claim to speak directly to god and this is the source of their power...people find the message/sales pitch appealing and once that mold is set it's all but impossible to change. Accept evolution and it pulls the plug from the power of the charlatans who don't see faith but power. It's a world of absolutes...every question has an answer and each answer is final. For many, they find the comfort in the certainty...free thinking requires too much from some people.

The I.D. school board game...and yes, it's a game...is like whack-a-mole. We fought them in our school district and it's almost always a targeted effort in a weak district where they try to win elections through the backdoor. In our case, they became very active right after a local referendum that was very controversial...they ran as the "change" candidates...they just didn't say what the change was. Fortunately we got the word out and they were soundly defeated. It'll take voter awareness in these areas and they too will toss out these "zealots" who are only interested in the power, not the faith.

[avenger64]

32. Tell them they're not allowed to use products of science anymore ...

... no more prescription drugs, communication devices, genetically modified foods. They only want to believe Science when it benefits them.

[RedCappedBandit]

33. lol: "...start teaching the bible as science"

Hahaha. These people really don't have the slightest clue as to what they're talking about.

I have a few things to say. First of all, in what way are "intelligent design" or "creationism" at all comparable to any theory of evolution?
Secondly, I have to wonder how sincere these people are when they say "..students should be given the opportunity to view all theories on how man evolved" Would they be happy to teach said students the genesis myths from any other religion? Probably not.
Thirdly, do these people even know what the words "theory" and "science" mean? Apparently not. I am disturbed by the lack of intelligence/education in this country.

[madfloridian]

36. Southern Baptists in Florida are taking the lead in opposing evolution.

Here is the website of the Florida Baptist Witness, and the page that covers their efforts against this.

http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/search.php?searchtext=evolution

Here is the article in which they claim they are taking the lead on this.

http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/8217.article

"The standards were available online at www.flstandards.org, but the period to offer comments closed Dec. 14. According to statistics provided to Florida Baptist Witness by Tom Butler, press secretary for the Department of Education, 6,498 educators and 2,924 others offered 17,696 comments and 234,677 ratings of the new science standards.”

“I have never seen a public response to any agenda item like this one,” Fair said, noting he has served on the Board eight years.

Although formal comments may no longer be taken on the Web site, interested persons may continue to offer their views to members of the State Board of Education (http://www.fldoe.org/board/), the body that will make the ultimate decision on the new standards, probably at its Feb. 19 meeting in Tallahassee.

For Kim Kendall, a stay-at-home mom and former air traffic controller, joined by three other concerned mothers in St. Johns County, the new standards deny academic freedom to teachers and students to explore both the proofs as well as the faults of evolution.

Kendall, a member of First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, was invited to offer brief comments at the conclusion of the Dec. 11 meeting of the State Board of Education after State Sen. Stephen Wise, R-Jacksonville, intervened to request time for Kendall because the previously scheduled Jacksonville meeting had been cancelled. At 8:45 p.m. on Dec. 10, however, Kendall was contacted by Education Commissioner Eric Smith who told her that she would not be permitted to offer comments at that meeting."

[flashl]

38. K

sorry, can not rec

[truth2power]

39. Aside from the appalling ignorance of these people,...

the larger picture is part of the Neocon agenda, which is to destroy the public school system in this country.

Privatize, Deregulate, Cut or defund social programs out of existence. The free-market trinity. Read Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine".

May Milton Friedman rot in hell! :grr:

[AngryAmish]

41. This is not a fundy problem, this is a Florida problem.