CSX is taking over areas of Central Florida with little or no oversight.

[madfloridian]

The state gave CSX a deal they could not refuse. They get to do anything they want to push forward their rail agenda in Central Florida. They can even start before the county and city planning is done. It is about as done a deal as you could imagine.

CSX told they can start building railroad center before any planning reviews are done.

WINTER HAVEN - State planning officials have told CSX it can begin building a rail transfer center before planning reviews of the massive project are completed. In a letter sent to CSX this week, the state Department of Community Affairs said it would consider an agreement with the company that would allow CSX to begin construction on the Winter Haven project while a comprehensive planning review known as a development of regional impact is under way."

Just go ahead, CSX, and the cities can plan later.

They don't have to follow any rules about preserving wildlife...the bulldozer is their weapon.

No wildlife preservation at CSX site

I've had more time to read over CSX's application for the Winter Haven project--my earlier report was taken on the fly in the middle of a County Commission meeting--and have no good news to report on the wildlife front. It seems the main wildlife management equipment that will be used in this project is a bulldozer. They already have a permit to kill the gopher tortoises. They plan to bulldoze the few rare plants because there's no law that says they can't, and they'll talk with the feds about the sand skinks.

The most significant find in the environmental survey was scrub lupine. This pink-blossomed plant is also known as McFarlin's lupine after the Winter Haven botanist who in the 1930s was the first to recognize its significance. Based on some information I've received, it's possible this may be part of a previously unknown population. And, aside from the CSX issue, it might be worth a more intense survey of the area. CSX says it will allow botanists to come in and collect any plant materials they want before construction begins, which is something.

"No law that says they can't." Palmer is the environmental editor, and this must be breaking his heart.

Ten families are suing the company, and the city of Winter Haven and CSX have been desperate to stop them....as the city will benefit financially as the people get screwed.

10 Families Sue CSX, Haven Over Facility

WINTER HAVEN - Ten families in Sundance Ranch Estates next to the proposed CSX rail transfer facility are suing the railroad and the city of Winter Haven to keep CSX from developing the site.

CSX and Winter Haven are eager to build the rail transfer facility on 1,250 acres the city owns. The city initially plans to sell 318 acres to CSX by the end of the year so the railroad can begin building a major rail center that would transfer cargo from rail cars to trucks.

Sundance residents and CSX have been wrangling for months. Sundance is a rural subdivision of 5-acre plots south of Winter Haven off County Road 653. Many of the residents have horses and say they value the country atmosphere. The residents have repeatedly asked the railroad to buy them out, but CSX has balked

"It's audacious that they could expect to plop something down right on top of them without compensation," Geohagen said. "If they want to develop this monstrosity then they need to compensate."

The inconvenience of the lack of maintenance of CSX of the rail lines has already added to long waits in drives across town. Very long waits.

Freight Train Blues Hit Downtown

Actually the blues hit the whole city when one travels North to South.

Five minutes passed. Then another five. Car horns honked, as if that would do any good. Tires squealed when some impatient drivers u-turned out of traffic to find another way to where they were going.

Another five minutes passed. The freight was hauling phosphate. Some pedestrians used steps between the cars to climb through the openings between them and go on their way.

By the time all the crossings were passable again, about 45 minutes had passed.

..."Emergency vehicles go past the theatre on South Florida Avenue at least eight or 10 times a day. It's just a wonder they didn't have to cross the tracks then, because they couldn't have crossed at Florida or Massachusetts or any of the other crossings."

This wasn't quite as long as the crossings were blocked in early May. That train stayed in place about an hour and a half before crossings opened.

This deal has Jeb Bush's fingerprints all over it. One of our state's leading Republicans, husband of a state senator, has accused Jeb of being totally involved in this scheme to screw the residents of several Central Florida cities.

Top Florida Republican accuses Jeb Bush of brokering the harmful CSX deal.

Whether it is the good fortune of having your buddy Gov. Jeb Bush honchoing a deal for you or whether CSX CEO Michael Ward is simply a good negotiator, it pays handsome dividends.

In November 2004, CSX executives made a half-billion-dollar pitch to Bush's Florida Department of Transportation. That pitch is now being played out in an impending agreement to pay CSX $491 million of taxpayers' money to move some of its freight trains off what they call the A Line, running down the east central part of Florida to Orlando over to the S Line, running down through west central Florida: Gainesville, Ocala, Plant City and Lakeland. The terminus is Winter Haven, where CSX wants to build a huge intermodal logistics center.

The payoff for CSX's Ward was $36 million in salary and benefits paid to him in 2005 and 2006.

Much of the funding for the $491 million, a first-of-a-kind deal for a private company, was accomplished in the 2005 session of the Florida Legislature. The Tampa Tribune reported in its Nov. 28 edition that few legislators knew of the Bush-backed Senate Bill 360 where the funding was inserted just before midnight on the last day of the legislative session, May 6.

Government secrecy in action.

CSX was given a do-whatever-you-want deal with almost no restrictions. Even prominent Republican leaders are not being heard. Can you say Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush in the same breath?

[NNadir]

1. Without having any say on the particulars, I support rails for environmental reasons.

We really don't seem to understand that we have to get the trucks off the roads and we need to rebuild the rails and electrify them. It's a big job. But climate change and a lot of other stuff demand that.

[madfloridian]

2. So you say screw the rights of the people.

Okay you say.

I understand the need for rails....I do not understand the need for secret deals for the wealthy without any rules or oversight.

I hope I misunderstood you, but I fear I did not.

[OzarkDem]

4. No, but there has to be some compromise

it appears from the articles that CSX is shifting its line farther inland to help deal with congestion problems. Keep in mind, the railroad was probably there long before people began building homes and businesses around it. I'm guessing its part of the old FEC line?

Moving the main line and building a new piggyback complex is going to be very expensive, so its not surprising they cut a deal. OTOH, when I worked for another railroad, you couldn't dig a ditch without filing an environmental impact statement. That CSX is being allowed to move forward with construction and no accommodation for environmental impact was unheard of years ago. Whatever happened to those regulations (let me guess, Bush got rid of them).

It might be fair to consider asking taxpayers to pick up part of the tab for moving the main line, but they shouldn't be subsidizing the cost of a new piggyback facility. It sure does sound like Jeb is giving the CSX a sweetheart deal, but it sounds like moving the line will be a big improvement for everyone.

Also keep in mind any property abandoned by the Chicken Shit Express (our old nickname for them) including the old right of way will also be an environmental mess.

[madfloridian]

6. Well, then color me stupid for thinking that back room deals

involving nothing for the people and hundreds of millions for CSX are smelly.

If we are going to make life unliveable for the people who have been here for decades....then why bother to develop a way of life.

Silly old bleeding heart me.

I must have been fooled again.

[OzarkDem]

11. No, it shouldn't have been a back room deal

There should be community meetings, etc. to let people know what's going on, but in the end, its the elected officials who make the deal with the railroad. This deal sounds much worse than usual. Based on past experience, someone is always going to be upset, usually residents and businesses. The best you can do is make sure the mayor, councilpersons, etc. feel the wrath at the next election. Sorry your community is getting shafted this way.

[madfloridian]

16. I am glad you are sorry. But I sense that you see no real wrong with it.

That bothers me because I have always respected your views.

You seem to feel that is how it is, so just relax and not worry.

I think it should be made a huge issue.

I am learning more everyday at DU.

[OzarkDem]

20. No, its wrong

There were rules and regulations established over many years to do these things and its wrong and dangerous that they are dismantled. I also opposed it when they abolished the Interstate Commerce Commission and even submitted written testimony to DOT about how the lack of oversight would reduce competition among carriers'freight rates.

[ClintonTyree]

21. But this is going to put a lot more trucks ON the road.....

in central Florida. The only north/south artery in that area to get to I-4 is Rt.27, and it's a road than cannot support ANY increased truck traffic. You take your life in your hands on that route as it is with all the fully loaded orange trucks etc. on their way to processing plants. Rt.27 is a nightmare, death alley for motorists. The old adage is that if you're approaching a yellow light about to turn red and have an orange truck behind you, run the light because the orange truck behind you certainly isn't going to stop. They keep right on going because it's difficult to stop a fully loaded orange truck and there are NO vehicle inspection laws in Florida. Half (if not more) of those trucks are driving with faulty brakes to begin with. Even when they DO reach I-4, anyone who's driven I-4 in the morning or evening in the Orlando area can attest to the fact that any increased truck traffic there would only add to the nightmare that already exists. It's a parking lot for 4 hours a day both east and west from Rt.27.

I think people have to understand the dynamics of traffic in that area before making knee-jerk decisions about the benefits of this rail yard. Winter Haven is a beautiful area, but the increased truck traffic it will generate is going to be a REAL and DANGEROUS problem to that city. But I guess we can't allow that to stand in the way of what corporate America wants, can we?

[sandnsea]

3. Carlyle Acquires Majority Stake in CSX

Global private equity firm The Carlyle Group today announced that it has agreed to acquire a majority stake in CSX Lines, LLC from the CSX Corp. (NYSE: CSX) in a transaction valued at $300 million. Current CSX Lines President and CEO Charles G. (Chuck) Raymond and his management team will remain in place and the new entity will be called Horizon Lines, LLC. Mr. Raymond will also serve as Chairman of the company's board.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2002_Dec_17/ai_95538572

I can't remember what I was researching that led me to this, but it was a couple of years ago and it wasn't good.

[madfloridian]

5. It seems there is no way to stop them.

They just steamrolled it all through. Orlando gets the passenger rail, and they are moving all the freight into Polk....overload. No oversight. In one city, the rail lines divide the rest of the city from the hospital. There is no way around...nothing to do if an emergency vehicle hits a freight stop.

Some legislators are going to speak up in the next session maybe, but it will do no good.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/dec/25/csx-deal-draws-wrath-lawmakers/

"Published: December 25, 2007

In 2007, several Florida lawmakers lambasted a $491 million state deal with CSX Transportation to buy track for commuter rail in the Orlando area and expand CSX's freight operations into Polk County.

The lawmakers say they were kept in the dark as state officials and CSX negotiated the costly deal, which will dump cargo that used to go through Orlando onto a freight superhighway through downtown Lakeland.

In 2008, lawmakers skeptical of the CSX deal will make it an issue when asked to give their final approval in this spring's legislative session."

[OzarkDem]

7. Rail lines divide cities from hospitals everywhere

If its going to cause major traffic problems to have the crossing at grade-level, perhaps the city can make them build the crossing above or below grade (overpass). City officials in our area had to go through this several years ago with Norfolk Southern and Conrail. The state and feds ended up helping them pay for an overpass in one city. The Congressman who helped broker the deal back then was Dennis Kucinich. He negotiated the best deal he could. Its tough because no one is happy in these situations.

[madfloridian]

9. I am sure Jeb and CSX are right. They always are, aren't they?

Whatever you think, that is your right.

There is no compromising being done here by CSX. They were given total power. I am disappointed you think it is not raising red flags.

[OzarkDem]

12. I agree, they're going about it the wrong way

That's why we used to have regulations to protect communities and the environment.

[madfloridian]

14. But now we don't have those regulations.

And there are other rail lines they could employ away from the city proper at a little more cost to the massive company CSX.

It makes me angry that people can read all I posted and not be outraged.

[madfloridian]

8. Don't power companies have power of eminent domain?

I think they can put any power stuff wherever they want, take whatever they want.

I guess railroads have that power now also. Go ahead and start without involving the cities and counties affected....just do what they want.

I guess there must be something wrong with me, because to me that just seems wrong.

I am surprised to see it being defended here at DU....but then I should not be surprised anymore at anything.

I am sure that people will get so used to having their property taken or lessened in value that they won't even care or fight anymore.

After all, that is what having a corporate nation is all about.

Last night I posted what I thought was a "safe" topic about remembering Molly Ivins and people started attacking Texas.

Tonight I post about a corporate back room deal which in effect turned over the I-4 corridor to CSX.....and people think it is ok.

:shrug: :shrug:

[davidinalameda]

10. I'm with you on this

CSX is not and will never been a good corporate neighbor, especially since their HQ is in Jacksonville

have you posted this in the Florida forum?

and have all the environmental groups been contacted about this?

someone needs to sue the hell out of these asswipes to stop this project

[madfloridian]

13. Thanks, I have posted quite often about it.

Most of the time people agree it is a raw deal. Now some here are just so damn accepting it breaks my heart.

Feel free to post it there if you wish....I am too disheartened to care.

[lurky]

15. What is an "Intermodal Logistics Center"?

And why is CSX spending half a billion (taxpayer) dollars to build one in central Florida? Rail freight has been in decline for decades -- when was the last time you heard of somebody building new railroads?

According to their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX">Wikipedia entry, CSX operates daily garbage trains hauling trash from NYC to Florida. Will this be a big garbage depot? Or is it just classic pork-barrel corruption? Or maybe something worse? (Can't help but be :tinfoilhat: when a Bush is enacting secret deals in the middle of the night.)

[OzarkDem]

19. Intermodal is transporting trailers and containers

Trucks drive up with trailers, drop them at the yard and a crane places them on special flatcars for transport elsewhere. It takes a massive amount of freight off the highways and puts it on trains - saves a lot of fuel and gets a lot of truck traffic off the highways. Its also more efficient for shippers because they don't have to locate their place of business next to a rail spur to ship or receive freight by rail. There may also be some warehouses around, too.

Rail traffic has grown or stayed steady over the last several years. You don't see a lot of expansion of rail lines because there are already a lot out there and use of intermodal (or trailer on flat car) traffic makes it unnecessary to build branch lines. You don't see new companies getting into the business because its so expensive - you have to purchase the property where your tracks run, as opposed to trucking where the government buys the land and builds the road for you.

Here's a photo of a new state of the art facility on my former employers line, probably what CSX wants to build. As info, CSX has always been an arrogant bunch. They're a good fit w/ Carlyle.

[ClintonTyree]

22. It also works the other way around as well....

where train loads of containers are unloaded onto trucks for distribution. See my post above about the impact of increased traffic in that area. It just cannot support the increased traffic this would bring.

[paulk]

25. thanks for the explanation

I worked on the UP for 20 years - our office in Denver was actually located in the intermodal yard - which was one scary pain in the ass to be - dodging trucks and those big things that lift the containers off.

Intermodal is a smart way to go and actually reduces, like you say, both truck traffic and rail spur traffic.

OTOH, this sounds like a pretty underhanded deal, but it's really SOP. Even out west, where we had no real contact with CXS, they were known for being "dirty".

[Triana]

17. John Snow, Sec of Treasury until 2006, was CEO of CSX before that

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/snow-bio.html

bu$hit crony. Also, CSX is involved in coal-mining via mountaintop removal.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:v3JVT1sJAbEJ:www.earthjustice.org/library/policy_factsheets/WHW_coal_connections_fact_sheet.pdf+csx+bush+administration&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Jeb's in Florida and I'm sure he wasn't ABOUT to do anything less than let CSX have whatever they wanted.

It's all corprat/ BFEE cronyism - everyone and everything else be damned.

[madfloridian]

18. CSX and Massachusetts and some problems with domain issues.

Looks like there are problems with expanding in other states as well. I am sure that CSX will get what they want.

http://www.telegram.com/article/20071206/NEWS/712060342/1020

"The late arrivals have been due, in part, to a major track-maintenance effort on the line by freight-hauler CSX Corp. Even though the work was done at night, it backed up service during the prime commuting hours. However, the maintenance job, completed Oct. 12, does not explain the continuing slump in November.

The on-time problem underscores the need for the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, which contracts with the Massachusetts Commuter Railroad Co. to run the line, to get control of the tracks. Dispatching, which is done by CSX out of Selkirk, N.Y., appears to be a major issue, along with CSX freight trains having priority over commuter trains.

The state has conducted extended negotiations with CSX to acquire the right-of-way so that more trains can be added to the inadequate 10-train schedule that has prevailed for years. Officials familiar with the talks say liability is the sticking point because the freight hauler has insisted on being indemnified by the state for any accident, regardless of fault. (putting the burden on the state??)

An eminent domain land taking would be a last-resort measure no one wants to occur. But the slumping on-time record on the Worcester line underscores the need to wrap up the negotiations with all prudent speed."

[Sancho]

23. Jeb has made a bunch of these deals...

SRI and other research firms located at colleges...
Local and regional planning groups...
Water and wetland regulations...
State investments...
Insurance companies...
Education publishers...

There's almost no way to investigate or expose all of the graft, kickbacks, donations, and deals.

It's amazing that so many in Florida think Jeb was wonderful while they were getting screwed.



Florida, where the state is Democratic and the voting machines are Republican.

:dem:

[madfloridian]

24. This would be a great issue for state Dems to yell about...

plus the tax deal that is going to be on the ballot on January 29, plus the way they are turning roads and bridges http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1667">over to private companies, often foreign ones.

They want to get people out to vote, and there are many issues. I get the emails, but there is nothing about this stuff.

[madfloridian]

26. Tampa Trib: "commuter rail isn't likely to come to Tampa for decades - if ever "

The more I read about this, the more I see how it has actually put off having passenger rail in other areas of the state. Looks like Orlando is the one to benefit in that respect. Lakeland, Winter Haven, and on to Tampa get screwed in this deal.

Last Stop In Rail Plan: Tampa

Gov. Jeb Bush and the chief of CSX Transportation, Michael Ward, emerged from the sleek new commuter train in Orlando to trumpet their landmark deal.

That morning, Aug. 2, 2006, they announced a plan to bring long-awaited commuter rail to Central Florida. CSX would get nearly a half-billion dollars in tax money for the sale of its Orlando area track and upgrades on its freight lines into a massive hub planned for Polk County.

The event highlighted the 61-mile passenger system that would take hundreds of cars off of crowded Orlando roads. But no one mentioned the larger plan behind the deal - a plan that could prevent the creation of passenger rail for the rest of Florida. It puts freight rail companies in control of where passenger lines will go and how much they will cost the taxpayers.

CSX is the winner in its deal with the state, critics say.

"Jeb set this thing up," said Gus Demott, of the Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen, who has been looking at the deal to assess how it will affect the union's members. One thing he believes: "Once this deal is done, it's going to be a windfall for CSX."

The likely loser is the Tampa Bay area, particularly Lakeland.

Jeb's paw prints are all over this statein a negative way, much of it yet to be revealed.

[styersc]

27. Not only will environmental resources be screwed but cultural

resources as well. Arvchaeological sites, historic sites, cemeteries and architecture all may be adversely impacted.

One way to fight would be through FEDERAL Regulation that has jurisdiction as the State cannot give permission to damage these resources as they are FEDERALLY Regulated (with consultation of state agencies). In addition, if Native American lands or resources are to be impacted, the regional/local tribe is granted input from the Feds.

This should not be taken lyig down.

I do not oppose rail projects and think they are a very good and important element in our efforts to clean up our enviro-mess, but environmental and cultural resources have to be protected inj the process- NO EXCEPTIONS.

Any good evironmental lawyers out there?