Anyone ever taught a kid to swim?

[RB TexLa]

You can go through all the teaching. You can tell them how to kick their legs and how to move their arms. You can tell them how to breath and everything. But in the end, the best way is that push into the water.

It's time to push the Iraqi government out of the boat!

[madokie]

1. yep shor 'nuf

[Uben]

2. Don't know about that, but.......

...the best way not to drown is to stay out of the water! I think that is the philosophy they are taking, obviously.

[trumad]

3. It deepends on what end you're pushing them in.

I agree though with the Iraq thingy though.

[liberal N proud]

4. Sink or swim

I think that is the theme we should adopt here.

[izzie]

5. I do not believe pushing kids in the water is teaching

They are not ducks. I have 5 kids and they all swim very well and it is not the way I did it. Sorry it is not how I would have wished to learn or did so would hardly do it to my children. Iraq is not a thing or child but people who will do as they think best. They will just wait to we leave and do it. Until then they will take our money and I guess laugh at us behind our backs as they do it. Bush will not ride to Greatness on the back of the country of Iraq, that is for sure. Looks to me like the real bad guys have just moved out for a while to blow up other countries because we sent in more men. Crazy stuff but I guess Bush will call it a win. After all blowing up Indians is hardly so bad for Bush.

[poiuytsister]

41. Did it take 5 year for your kids to learn? n/t

[izzie]

42. To swim good maybe

Even we in this country had about 200 plus years or sort of ruling our self away from England before we did it on our own plus we are still working at it. These countries will do it in their own time and ways.

[demnan]

6. This isn't a really good analogy - or maybe it is

for the reason why your argument doesn't work. I hope that when we do withdraw there will be a peacekeeping force from the UN made up of the neighboring countries. I remember what happened after our disasterous departure from Vietnam. All the ones who supported us ended up in little boats desperate to get away.

[Buzz Clik]

7. Er. Ok. Push the Iraqi government into the water. But, just like the kid you're teaching...

... if they don't want to swim, it ain't happening.

I really hope you don't intend on teaching a kid to swim by push him or her into the water.

[RB TexLa]

8. It's the way I learned, and it worked. However I don't raise children, so not something I ever have

to worry about.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Unlike your kid, if the Iraqis choose not to swim that is their business.

There is no justification for our continued occupation of Iraq.

[Buzz Clik]

11. Sure. We can certainly choose to walk away and watch the country disintegrate.

[tabatha]

22. its a terrible analogy, and

I don't think the country would disintegrate if the US leaves - on the contrary it will if the US stays.

From Yahoo:

BAGHDAD - The rise of armed Sunni groups — who now battle al-Qaida in Iraq instead of fighting U.S. troops — is widely seen as a major reason for a drop in violence across the country.

That means even the surge by the US could not have stopped the violence without the Sunnis now fighting al-Qaida.

Also , al Sadr (?) called a 6-month freeze.

Without the above, there would be no drop in violence.

I think the Iraqi govt is deliberately stalling until Bush is out of office. They do not want forced legislation especially the oil law.

Most of Iraqis want us out of the country. Since we were supposed to bring them "freedom" - then why is the US not heeding their call to be free of us.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. Five years of disintegration caused by us: not enough for you?

I am truly sorry to hear here, once again, that dishonest idiotic and arrogant argument for why we should continue to occupy the territory containing the planet's second largest proven oil reserves.

[Buzz Clik]

27. Way to take all of this out of context and bundle it with insults.

Fuck you.

Oh, yeah. Merry Christmas.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. Your own words pal, nothing out of context at all.

" Sure. We can certainly choose to walk away and watch the country disintegrate."

When I read people here spouting that crap I get pissed off. If you don't want to defend your bullshit, don't post it.

[Buzz Clik]

37. My words are this, pal: You took it out of context. Period.

I love assholes that leap in and take whatever catches their eye and take off assuming they fully understand everything so well that they can start with the extrapolation and insults.

Here's a clue: you're wrong.

But I'm certain that you'll carry on like you know my intent better than I.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. I didn't leap in. You responded to my comment.

Go look again. You responded to me, I responded to you. If I misinterpreted your remarks, fine, clarify what you meant. In the context of this thread your remarks can clearly be interpreted as supporting an ongoing occupation in order to prevent some mythical disintegration that is somehow worse than the current disintegration that we directly caused. You wrote one of the standard variations on the 'pottery barn' rational for our imperialist adventure. That you don't actually want to defend it is not particularly surprising.

Merry Christmas.

[Dorian Gray]

45. Just because some

find the swimming analogy stupid doesn't mean that we think that we should continue to occupy Iraq. I just think the swimming analogy showed a heartless attitude toward the plight of the people there. We are not just "Pushing" them in, and our governement owes it to them to offer them any support that they ask for. Not just push them in and walk away as they struggle and go under.

[Hippo_Tron]

43. You have a suggestion as to how to make it not disintegrate?

Because our continued occupation is just slowly making it even worse than it already is.

[SheilaT]

10. This is a terrible comparison.

You DON'T teach children to swim by pushing them in the water. There are ways to teach, which obviously involve being in the water and learning the skills.

The problem in Iraq is that we waltzed in, overthrew their government, set things up so as to insure sectarian violence, do all sorts of things that guarantee most Iraqis will hate us for life. And then people try to say, oh so virtuously, that the Iraqi government needs to be on its own.

I do feel that we should pull out of Iraq sooner rather than later, but I recognize we've created a monster that may never die.

[Kingshakabobo]

21. Watch this baby survival swimming video... pretty neat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0mUPr68x2U

[SheilaT]

28. That's a survival back float.

We moved to Phoenix, Arizona in the fall of 1983. My oldest son was about nine months old. While we did not have a backyard pool of our own, our apartment complex had one (although it was properly fenced off as required by law in Arizona. The pool depicted at the beginning of the video would not be legal (unless they've changed the law there) as it is not separately fenced off from the back yard.

I learned about a survival back float program called Water Babies and enrolled my son. In about three months he learned just the kind of survival back float shown there. It is impressive. Notice how in the later part of the video the kid is swimming underwater and going back to the back float to breathe. Very young children, under about the age of two or three, cannot learn to swim as we think of it, because they cannot hold their heads up well enough yet. But the float, swim, roll back to the float to breathe is remarkable.

This is, of course, nothing like just tossing the kid into the water and expecting him to swim.

And also, to the person who expressed dismay that the kid was hollering, that's EXACTLY what you want the kid to do under these circumstances: to come up in a float and scream bloody murder until he's rescued. Many, perhaps most of the kids who go through a program like this will get comfortable enough with floating that they won't holler any more.

The program we were in advised that at least every couple of weeks, after learning this, to take your kid out to the pool fully clothed and just drop him in to make sure he still remembers how to come up and float.

Oh, and the floaties that many parents put on their kids' arms are the worst possible thing, because the young kids don't fully understand that they're being kept afloat by those devices, and all too often will jump into the water without them and sink straight to the bottom.

My son was also a champion at holding his breath, and when he was four, five, six, we'd go to public pools, he'd jump off the diving board, and then go hang out at the bottom of the pool until the lifeguards got pretty nervous. I had to tell him he shouldn't scare the lifeguards like that.

[UTUSN]

12. Did the Iraqis ASK to be taught?!1 n/t

[RB TexLa]

13. Well, I didn't ask for us to be there doing it either.

[UTUSN]

20. Well, your o.p. is chock full of premises and embedded assumptions,

like,

* colonialism

* our superiority

* their inferiority

* our generosity

* their ungratefulness


Actually, the mess is *ours* because our Caligula broke the Pottery Barn stuff. Another option would be for the Iraqis to tell us to get the goddamned hell out of their business.

Who gets thrown into the water depends on who is doing the throwing.

[RB TexLa]

23. It's not the Iraqi people I was thinking of just the government and the only way to

know if the government there is going to work is to let it work or fail. We should load up the planes and leave, if the government works it works, if it fails it fails.

[UTUSN]

32. That'll teach'em, I mean, us, I mean... uh... n/t

[havocmom]

14. If it's the US teaching the 'Iraqi government' how to swim

the Iraqi people are sunk

[1monster]

15. :Pushing a kid into the water is a terrific way to terrify them into being

aguaphobics.

Then, teaching them how to swims is nearly impossible.

[lonestarnot]

16. And buy every last one of them a hummer.

:hhhmmmmmf:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. they were swimming. we then tied weight to their legs to make them drown

their lungs filled up with water, we then cut the weights and blamed their failure on their inability to swim.

[lunatica]

18. Yeah! Especially after we destroyed their country

Just kick their asses all over again since they're so ungrateful of our well meaning shock and awe and all the freedoms we brought to them. What's the matter with them! All we want is their oil, not their daily problems! Geesh! Can't they just declare us victorious and move on so we don't have to fix all their problems?!

[RB TexLa]

19. I'm fine with them not extracting one drop of oil. It's time for every last American there to come

home. Actually it has been time.

[Dorian Gray]

24. The worst way to teach a child how to swim

is to push them in the water. If they don't drown, they'll wind up hating the water.

Silly analogy.

[RB TexLa]

25. So 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 30?

[lunatica]

29. No.

Get the troops out and support any and all efforts for peaceful diplomacy and make some reparations for everything we destroyed. Apologize to the world for our temporary Bush Era insanity and commit ourselves to help stabilize the Middle East. Not by our presence because that generates hatred, discontent and division, but through supporting peace brokering in every way we can. Get our corporations out of there or hire Iraqis to rebuild their infrastructure. It'll take 5, 10 or 30 years too, but it won't be killing people, ours or theirs for the same length of time.

What? You thought we could just push them into the water and leave unscathed?

[RB TexLa]

33. You're saying what I was saying. We leave.

[lunatica]

36. You're also saying let them sink or swim on their own

I'm saying we need to face our mistakes and do something about them. Bush forced them to elect the people who he wanted elected and you wonder why the Iraqis aren't enchanted with them?! The reason Al Maliki can't control the Iraqi government is because he's got Cheney's hand up his backside via Halliburton and no the Iraqi people who haven't left the country are not fooled.

[RB TexLa]

40. All governments sink or swim on their own

[Dorian Gray]

44. Huh?

[Crabby Appleton]

30. As a former Red Cross WSI *, Sr Lifesaver

and city parks & rec lifeguard, I've taught many kids (and adults) to swim. Pushing the new swimmer in was not part of the curriculum, and would be the worst way, not the best No a very good analogy.

* Water Safety Instructor (WSI) is the Red Cross designation for a certified swimming teacher.

[Thor_MN]

34. I taught my nephew. He wouldn't put his face in the water.

I've watched tons of people holding kids up while they kick their legs wildly. I'm pretty sure that most people that can move their legs know how to flail them around. Doesn't seem too productive to me. The adult gets water splashed in their face and the child learns nothing.

I put a mask and snorkle on him and had him just look around. In ten minutes, he was paddling around. A half hour later, his brothers had appropriated the mask and snorkle and he was splashing around with no fears. I did not prop him up at any time other than giving him guidance and some equipment.

The people of Iraq want us gone, because no one wants to occupied by a foreign military, especially with armed private thugs running around that are above any law. The neocons don't want us out of Iraq because it is profitable to them to have a war going on. We need to get out of Iraq, but the only way is to take control of this country away from the neocons. Then we need to tell them that we are leaving, sorry for all the crap that batshit crazy other guy forced on you and we will help you, but you need to learn to swim for yourself.

[asdjrocky]

35. I'll never forget that summer...

Out at the lake, a soft warm summer breeze, and the birds chirping, and happy.

My Dad picked me up and just threw me in the lake. I cried, I blubbered, I flayed about in the water, screaming and yelling for help. But eventually, I learned to tread water, and even dog paddle.

Yep, I'll never forget that summer, when I turned 27.

[lateo]

38. Yup.

Taught my oldest to swim this summer. And this was exactly how I did it.