Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I know that Diebold, EE&S, Sequioa and all of the other Cockroach DREs

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 11:58 AM
Original message
I know that Diebold, EE&S, Sequioa and all of the other Cockroach DREs
have fixed many an election for the Repubs but given what we've been given a glimpse of recently, that the Democrats aren't just weak, they're co-conspirators, has anyone looked into how many of the primaries for the Democrats are being decided by those vile machines. I mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Maybe, just maybe, people like Pelosi and Reid and many other incumbent Democrats who are willing to play along, may have access to fixed elections, just like Bush.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. they're in my state, but I won't count since I'm in Utah. Thankfully the Iowa Caucuses uses people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Unfortunately, what you think is not supported by best evidence
DREs suck, period. Down the in the subways, they're wiped constantly or quickly become useless. But no one's found anything so far to suggest that anything deliberately has been done to maliciously affect a race.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. How often have those issues with DREs favored the Republican candidate
versus the Democratic candidate? Are there any numbers on that?

Why did the exit polls start becoming "unreliable" after DREs came along? Don't you think that's a weird coincidence?

Plausible deniability isn't quite good enough for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. There are professors gathering data. I've watched David Dill
who was quietly helpful to me while Bev Harris while doing her PR thing and fleecing DUers. His site is http://www.verifiedvoting.org and I'm proud to say I helped while they were first archiving articles.

C-Span recently re-aired a panel where he and several other computer scientists faced activists. Your question was asked and answered: yes, there are incidents where the D was favored over R.

Exit polls are a recent phenomenon, but I don't recall that they were ever reliable ... they're not meant to be representative. They are used to determine why people voted as they did; if the methodology was meant to verify actual poll results, they'd be set up differently.

It's not a question of what you believe ... unfortunately, self-interested individuals have already damaged public perceptions ... but what professionals in my field can verify and address. It's a technical issue, not political at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Unfortunately, during that time, I was supporting Bev Harris.
Sucks. Totally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I left as many warnings as I could. Forgive me for not staying n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. the only thing that would constitute "evidence" of "malicious" DRE use would be
for the perps to be caught red-handed. that's the problem in a nutshell -->> we have no way of knowing.

in ohio they closed down a precinct, declared a terrorist threat and pushed all the observers out the door while they tabulated the DREs. we can't PROVE anything was crooked because the Rethugs held all the power and shut the door behind us. we can't make any judgment about the INTEGRITY of the DREs because the software is proprietary... the process is opaque.

so, you are correct, but unfortunately, that correctness is beside the point. the vote needs transparency for democracy to flourish. a PROPRIETARY BLACK BOX vote is the antithesis of democracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. But let's make the assumption, just for this scenario
that the DREs do flip and manipulate votes. The part I'm asking people to think about is whether those machines also might flip votes for compliant Democratic incumbents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Your hypothetical rests upon a baseless assumption. As for vote tampering
may I state for the record that it happens here all the time. NYC is a Democratic machine and even conservatives register strategically.

We have lever machines and every cycle the broken ones are placed in minority districts. The affidavit ballots aren't counted, even when it matters ... that's how we got Bloomberg and don't care. When I went to vote for Ferrer (against Mark Green) I was asked if I wanted instruction on how to write-in for Rudy. You think our local liberal press cared? Nope ... I tried.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. to the hegemon goes the spoils -- so, yeah dems might take advantage
to date tho, the overwhelming statistical flipping seems to have benefited repugs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Malicious DRE manipulation would leave code and coders
Sorry, but it strains credulity. Yes, code can delete itself but I would know where to look to find evidence of such tampering and heard personally from others well qualified to juddge. The evidence has been examined by experts and there's nothing to point to tampering of any kind, save the demonstrations of happy hackers with their own brand name to sell.

Please offer evidence or at least a recognized authority. I've seen university professors challenged by amateurs in public and it's not pretty.

I've seen the code myself, so despite its proprietary nature we have a prettty good idea ourselves what's going on. For those incapable or unwilling to look at the public record, including Diebold code that was illegally obtained ... keep quiet because any claim you make will be baseless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Dec 28th 2014, 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC