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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:28 AM
Original message
snow removal around mailboxes regulation question...
I live in a rural area, between our driveway and knuckledragger's driveway are 4 mailboxes in a row which service 1 home across the street, ours, knuckledragger's, and neighbor in back of us.

In the past I have always cleared out ALL the mailboxes. However since knuckledragger called the cops on me last year for standing in his driveway and shoveling out the mailboxes - I refuse to shovel out the last mailbox on the end - which is knuckledragger's mailbox. When neighbor across the street tried shoveling out the mailboxes, knuckledragger threatened to shoot her. yes, cops were called, nothing happened.

knuckledragger has a snowblower, he's out there 2-3 times clearing his driveway whenever it snows - yet he won't clear out the mailboxes - it's not a big area, two short passes with a snowblower would do the job.

with yesterdays combination of snow/sleet, and the way he cleared his driveway the snow in front of his mailbox was over a foot deep and frozen solid. I had a hard enough time clearing out the other mailboxes that had less stuff in front of it.

this means there's a 'wall' of stuff in front of his mailbox, and unless a plow comes through a busts it up - the mailperson is going to have a very difficult time pulling up to the mailboxes. Knuckledragger is aware that the mailboxes must be cleared out, but he refuses to listen. During last week's storm, he was not home, his wife cleared their driveway and she even cleared out in front of the mailboxes. so we are not talking ignorance of the regulations...

I know the post office can refuse to deliver mail if the mailboxes are not cleared - does anyone know what our options are if this occurs, can we file a formal complaint with the post office to take action against knuckledragger specifically?

we did consider moving three of the mailboxes to the other side of our driveway, but there's a water runoff area on that side and a vehicle would get stuck, and we can't move the boxes to a place across the street per postal regulations.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. If you know the mail person let them know he refuses to clear it
Too bad you couldn't arrange for an order of cement poured over it. But, it would have to be off the books so it couldn't be tracked.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. Make sure to dig out any nearby fire hydrants. nt
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Call the office out of which you letter carrier works and give them a
"heads up". Ask for the station manager. Let them deal with knuckledragger as long as it doesn't interfere with your delivery. The USPS has legal recourse and jurisdiction that you don't. They can even go so far as to refuse delivery to knucklegragger - permanently - and make him pick up his mail at the office rather than having it delivered.

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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. go straight to the Post Master of your area, tell him you guys tried , but he threatened your lives
and the police did nothing about it.. the guy does not own the right of way, write your congressman, the Sheriff,the State Police, state attorney general, the local postmaster, and the federal postmaster general, this is happening on state roads.. tell them he threatened to use a gun to kill you over access to your mail box.. i would go ahead and clear it and video tape the encounter.. send it on a CD to your local tv news ..put it on youtube.. send it to every law enforcement agency including the sheriff state police FBI postmaster General state attorney general local news station congressman, CNN, hell even Faux news.. with a 'cc:' at the bottom listing all the afore mentioned authorities, no one will risk being the last to intervene. get the other people involved to sign also
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. kick
nt
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. maybe over kill, but wnen all thost people know theres a nut case with a gun and a paper trail to
them.. something usually gets done.

especially the post office.. mess with the post office, and have a gun related nut case.. they pay attention
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. the space between the mailboxes and the road is probably public property.
that's how it works in the rural area we live in.
he has no right to stop you from clearing the snow there, and if he threatens to kill you- well, PRESS CHARGES as it's against the law.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. here in oklahoma if someone threatens you with bodily harm and there is witnesses
there is nothing to stop you from doing what is necessary to protect your person and family. I'm not advocating anything I'm just pointing out what your neighbor is doing is very unlawful and he needs a visit to the court system such as someone filing charges, to find out just what he doesn't know and what he needs to know. People like him kill people for stupid shit every day
:hi:
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. This is in the other direction about the Post Office
We live in a small town in Minnesota. In the winter we don't use the driveway to the road in front of the house, we use the garage which opens on to the alley.

Our mail box is on the side of the house between our house and the house next door. In the winter the guy who lives next door has a plow come in and clear out the whole area in front of his garage apartment. Because we don't use our driveway we don't shovel it. But the houses are close. So me a 70+ year old woman went out and shoveled a pathway from the area of the next door area to the guy next door's house and the whole area between our houses to the mail box. I like to play with his dog and I made the whole area snow free. The post office refused to deliver our mail because we did not shovel a path from the road to our mail box. I took pictures with the digital camera and showed the post office that the whole area was cleared. And asked them why I had to shovel a path 18 inches over from the whole area cleared by the plow and my shoveling. The insisted that each house had to have a path from the road. They would not deliver the mail. I think it was for spite. I wrote to the Post Office head in Minneapolis and they had called the Post Master and he lied lied lied he told them we did not have a clear path to our house. So the Post Office wrote a letter and said it was mandatory that I clear a path from the road to the house.

Now I ask you what was the difference from the cleared area to (and we measured it 18 inches) to our driveway to the mail box. It has just one temporary mail clerk that had been stubborn. And after the area was cleared she wouldn't deliver the mail again, because the dog next door barked at her and she was afraid. We finally moved but I was so upset I didn't know what to do.
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. They're tetchy, that's for sure
For the first time ever, our mail carrier refused to deliver our mail (we have a mailbox next to the front door) because "path wasn't cleared", as they wrote on the mail that they delivered the next day. I had shoveled the front walk all the way to the sidewalk, as well as the front steps, but there was a small lump of ice on the second step. It didn't extend the entire width of that step, but apparently that was enough for the mail carrier to refuse to climb the two steps to our stoop. :shrug:

Of course we caved and I made DH find the tub of rock salt that was buried deep in the garage. But...that was a new one on me.
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Mail carriers in rural areas use any excuse in the book
To avoid doing their job.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I was a rural carrier. It's a dangerous, difficult job. If anything happens
while attempting delivery to a box that is not clear, or within basic guidelines, it could come back on the carrier. If they have to step out of the vehicle, or back up, they are not supposed to make delivery. If a snow drift is covering a box, or a hilly road is covered by ice, I wouldn't deliver. I flipped my jeep once because of ice.



I was a city carrier too, and painted porches on snowy days are deadly.


Dogs, if fluffy comes at me teeth bared she will be sprayed or given the boot. I have cut off whole streets because some asshole won't follow the laws concerning vicious dogs.
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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Yeah, but this is in a village
A very Mayberry-like village. That's why I was so surprised at being denied service--over a small lump of ice. Who knew? :shrug:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Put it in the lap of the Postmaster
Tell him/her what has happened. Tell them about the threats of bodily injury to you and your neighbors.
The Post Office CAN and WILL remove his mailbox and refuse to deliver to him because of non-compliance with postal regulations.
Politely tell the Postmaster that you expect him to enforce the regulations and that you want HIS/HER assurance that YOUR mail will not be interrupted because of knuckledragger's refusal to comply with unenforced postal regulations.

This doesn't have to be your battle.

Good luck!
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. I had a problem regarding snowbound mailboxes once
Some neighboring teenage girls who had it in for my daughter kept packing my mailbox with snow and I wasn't able to receive mail. I traipsed down to the post office to complain, believing that this was a federal crime, but received no satisfaction whatsoever. I don't remember exactly how it was resolved, but I did enlist the help of the neighborhood yenta, one of those "It's my ball now" women who watched and complained about everything that went on in the neighborhood. Eventually, the kids tired of their fun, or maybe the snow melted, but it was very frustrating that a bunch of kids could get away with this.
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Damn!
I am very grateful when my neighbor clears the snow around my mail box . I am OLD ( 67 ) and my mailbox is farther away than I feel comfortable walking in snow and ice.She even brings my mail to me.Usually a kindness is paid in kind,(I gave her home made strawberry jam) but some people are just to bull headed to "get it"


That guy is a real ass
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Option #1 would be moving your mailbox to another location
Perhaps your neighbors (other than knuckledragger) would want to move theirs there too
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-18-07 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. it's the only place we can put them
we did consider moving three of the mailboxes to the other side of our driveway, but there's a water runoff area on that side and a vehicle would get stuck in the ditch, and we can't move the boxes to a place across the street per postal regulations.

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