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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:22 PM
Original message
Diplomat 'dumped his adopted child because she did not fit in'
From The Times
December 14, 2007

Roger Boyes in Berlin

A diplomat accused of dumping his adopted daughter flew home yesterday after triggering a row about the ethics of Europeans adopting Asian children.

Jade, a seven-year-old of South Korean origin, is the focus of an escalating dispute across two continents. At the age of four months she was adopted by a Dutch consular officer based in Hong Kong, Raymond Poeteray, and his wife Meta. But the couple have now surrendered Jade to the Hong Kong social welfare department for readoption, reportedly because the child could not adapt to Dutch culture.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/arti...

Seriously wtf is wrong with these people.

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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sociopaths
How could they do this to that little innocent child?
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. They adopted her from South Korea and dumped her in Hong Kong.
Meanwhile it remains unclear whether Jade can remain in Hong Kong - she has only Korean citizenship, being neither Dutch nor Chinese, and speaks only English and Cantonese.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. To some people, children are the latest "accessories"
When they go out of style, they get kicked to the back of the closet (or taken to the Goodwill).
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
55. Yep. I see a lot of people who treat their kids like shit because they can't put them in a closet
They don't want to parent, they want to pretend they are parents. Lots of lost kids getting big without doing much growing because parents too busy 'having a life' to be bothered with working on family.

Infuriating. And society pays dearly for more and more un-parented people who have some serious needs and issues.
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geek_sabre Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. adopted at four months old, and couldn't adapt?
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:27 PM by delaware97
bullshit
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. She's 7 now. They had her for 6 1/2 years and now dump her. Disgusting! nt
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. She's seven now. You know how stuck in their ways these elementary schoolers are.
They'll catch hell for this from their freinds and acqauintances in the Netherlands, btw. Guaranteed.
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. That couple is despicable
:mad:
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Not even because I'm adopted myself but
I really want to spend ten minutes alone with this guy, if ya feel me. My wife can visit his missus.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. She was adopted at four months old. What other culture did she know?
Theirs was the only family the girl ever knew!

They never even applied to get her Dutch citizenship, so it doesn't sound like they planned to keep her.

Buying children overseas is bad enough. Renting them is worse.

Scum.

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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Scumbags....
Had her from 4 months and decide they don't want her at 7 YEARS?? If that kid had any adjustment problems, it is all on the adoptive parents when it comes to having one from that young.

Poor little thing. :(
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. I wonder about all their children
They had someone who took care of her both during the day and night. She speaks english and cantonese and a little dutch. Did they not communicate with her in their own language? Something is really off about this story.
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. It sounds like the parents did not interact with her at all.
I was blown away to see she spoke English and Cantonese but only a little Dutch.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Yep.. she was an exotic "pet" they picked up on a trip
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:35 PM by SoCalDem
and apprently when her hair did not turn blonde, and her facial features, European, they tired of their pet and returned her to the "pound"..

Too bad they did not offer her in adoption to an English/Cantonese speaking family in Holland..To dump her into a culture she has never known...as a recycled orphan is cruel beyond belief..

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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
24.  If they never fully tried to be parents to her I wonder what caused
them to adopt her. Giving her up may be an act of kindness, maybe thet were counseled to do so.





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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. They NEVER made any effort to parent her.
Her language acquisition is proof positive of that. They obviously had very little to do with her. The Dutch have this international image of being so "tolerant." When it comes to "family issues" it has been my observation that their "tolerance" is just smoke and mirrors.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Excuse me? Adopted at 4 months old and couldn't adapt to the only culture she knew? I call BULLSHIT.
Unfreakin' believable. How could you love a child for 7 YEARS and give her up? OMG....that's insane.
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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Obviously they didn't love her - ever
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
41. You can't.
You cannot love a child for seven years and give her up. There was no love there.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. How could they not love a baby they adopted?
It's hard for me to wrap my brain around that one. :cry:
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have two observations.......
1. What did they "use" her for in those years they had her.

2. They should never be allow to take her back.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. She was probably their "show orphan"..trotted out from time to time
for photo-ops.. to show how magnanimous & enlightened they were
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Sounds like it. Are there more pathetic people on the face of the earth than those who
use children?
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. Scum of the fucking earth.... What a horrible lie... cant adapt?
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. While I agree with everything that's been said...
I also have to wonder if she's not better off with the chance of finding a family that might actually love her. Clearly she was just an accessory for the past 6.5 years and doesn't deserve any more emotional damage.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I was going to say something similar to that... We might want to send a bunch...
of nasty emails to the SOB, but she is probably better off maybe getting someone that really wants her. This is very disturbing and disgusting though....
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I thought about that but this little girl is going to have some serious emotional scars
because of what these two animals did to her for six and a half years. I don't see her ever trusting a parental figure again without 30 years worth of therapy.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yep, I thought of that as well... How sick this world is becoming! n/t
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. These so-called 'parents' ...
... should be charged with child abandonment, and face the same consequences they would had they dumped her in a vacant lot.

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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. I really hope that whom ever this shit for brains works for cans his sorry ass... n/t
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
25. The rest of the story....
They adopted her at four months. They relinquished her at seven years.

"Mr Poeteray, 55, said that when the family moved from Indonesia to Hong Kong three years ago, medical specialists said that Jade had serious bonding problems

Attachment disorder is a very real thing. The Wiki article is informative, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_disorder

Poor Jade was probably dumped into a cot in an orphanage shortly after birth, a disappointment to parents who needed a male child. She was fed and cleaned for four months, given enough to survive, but no real infant caregiving such as holding, cuddling, eye contact games and other vitally important early infant care that short staffing prevented.

Some children suffer this treatment for a few months and are able to overcome it when they're placed in loving homes. Apparently this is one of the unfortunate children who could not.

I have a great deal of sympathy with the Poeteray family. They tried for seven years. Obviously the problem was a huge one. If it had simply been the kind of thing like discarding a pet when it starts to grow up and isn't cute any more, they'd have returned her far sooner.
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. That is what they claim
However others state differently:

The South Korean Consulate in Hong Kong said that Mr and Mrs Poeteray had complained that Jade was not adapting to Dutch culture or food. That is the reason they gave for why they want to discontinue the relationship, a South Korean official said.

and

Dutch newspapers tracked down a former babysitter yesterday who took care of Jade when she was a baby in Indonesia. She too was bemused by the fate of the little girl whom she remembers as a quiet but normal child. I took care of her in the evenings, while an Indonesian woman was with her in the daytime, she told De Telegraaf. But Meta did not treat as her real daughter.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. And so what do these A**holes do, make it all happen a second time for her. n/t
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:48 PM by LakeSamish706
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. You don't get it.
There's nothing they can do to make it better. This kid will have to have institutional help. I hope she gets it. She will always be a damaged human being.

Better read the article on attachment disorder. It can be part of psychopathy.
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. She probably does not have attachment disorder.
A babysitter who watched her said she was a normal child, she said that the mother never treated her like one of her own children.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Authorities are hoping to put her up for adoption again.
Hopefully this time to more loving parents who will meet her needs. Apparently she isn't so far gone that adoption isn't an option. And certainly attachment and commitment comes from the parents as well, even with handicapped and ill children.

After 6 years of adoption from 4 months old I think it is criminal to give an adopted child back.
Unbelievable, really.

DemEx

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. Warpy, I think you're missing something here...
If the Poeteray family had treated this child as one of their own, SOMEONE would have spent enough time with her that her FIRST language would be Dutch. THAT ALONE is a HUGE red flag.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Not necessarily
especially if the kid has a severe attachment disorder. There would be no reason for her to bother to learn Dutch to communicate with her adopted family.

I just think there are a lot of questions here that need to be answered by professionals who are well versed in diagnosing and treating attachment disorder. After all, they gave it seven years. That speaks of committment.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. While I agree that attachment disorder can be a real problem...
it is very rare in children who are adopted in infancy, especially before the age of six months.

Also, the language issue *does* raise questions here, since if the child was simply too disturbed to wish to communicate, it is puzzling how she managed to learn the other two languages (she was adopted too young to have any language at that time).

I agree that it's important not to make snap judgements on the basis of a media report; but this particular story does seem strange.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Her adoptive parents made NO EFFORT
to communicate with HER in THEIR native tongue. THAT is what her language acquisition definitively shows. Attachment disorder is REAL but had her adoptive "parents" made ANY EFFORT whatsoever toward this child, including securing her a passport, it would be manifest in DUTCH.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. You don't know that.
This will have to be sorted out by mental health professionals.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. What I know about is HOW children acquire language.
It's PERSONAL. My kid had "bonding challenges" 2 decades ago. I had to teach him to look me in the eyes. I've been teaching neurotypical kindergarteners for 2 months, once a week. They ALL mimic my language now, even after such short contact. It's a PERSONAL passive transmission that's all about LOVE and acceptance. It's NON-VERBAL.
Successful transmission leads to active language.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. It's not an issue of stubbornly REFUSING to learn Dutch
If you expose a child to a language, the child will learn it. If the family's language was Dutch, how did she not learn Dutch if she was part of the family?

Same goes for Dutch food and culture.

I can't imagine--even if I was living overseas--having a child that didn't speak English and wasn't in some way American. :shrug:
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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Exactly. They lived overseas
Edited on Sat Dec-15-07 03:16 PM by indie_voter
If the child knows English and Cantonese, that means those were the languages people spoke to her in. A 4 month old doesn't stubbornly refuse to learn a language.

Did they talk to her in Dutch? Did they treat her as their other bio children?

They adopted an infant, and if the infant had problems, it was their responsibility as parents to find solutions, not throw their hands up and give up. It's as much their responsibility as a parents who give birth to a child who struggles.

Adoption isn't the same as foster care, which is temporary. Adoptive parents are agreeing to raise a baby as their own, and be a parent until the day they die. For better or worse.

They were the parents, the child wasn't theirs biologically, but should have been in every other way. And if this child does have attachment disorders (and her nannies don't seem to corroborate this story) , they've just damaged her even further by abandoning her. The only parents she has ever known from infancy has left her to strangers because she doesn't 'fit in'.

Disgusting.

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #43
54. She was four months old when they adopted her.
What language is the child going to learn, other than the one that people use around her?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. At age 4 months, no baby knows enough "to bother" or NOT "to bother" to learn.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
56. Wait... they "tried" for seven years?
She wasn't on loan. They adopted her... they're her parents now. If she needs some type of psychiatric care, they should provide it, not dump her in an orphanage. That's what parenting IS - unconditional love. Then again, maybe the reason she was never able to overcome attachment disorder was because her parents never treated her like their own child.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
58. The very informative article you provided says the
attachment disorder develops in children who are separated from their caregivers after 6 months of age. This child was four months old when adopted.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
26. This annoys the shit out of me
Not just because I am the father of a foreign born adopted child, but because that it simple gross abuse of a human being. I have some friends who adopted a foreign born child after the first adoptive "parents" decided the child was too "different" to fit into their family. I've seen the horror that kid has gone through and the lengths my saintly friends have gone thru to help the child learn acceptance and love. May all those "parents" rot.
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. at this point maybe the child is better off
whose to say she would not have lived a life of abuse because she "never fit in"

none the less this is just disgusting.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
35. What utter vile
SELFISH assholes.

And even better! The wife is in therapy to come to terms with their decision! I hope their therapist tells her she's a narcissitic, vile, SELFISH ASSHOLE!

This story makes me so fucking angry! (Excuse my language!)


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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The girl seems to be doing very well in her foster home - certainly better off
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 05:47 PM by DemExpat
than with the narcissistic parents who didn't even take the care to have her nationality settled in those 7 years.

Korean law doesn't allow for parents to give a child back, so legally there is a problem here as well.

DemEx
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. I just hope that her foster home
and then whatever permanent home she is placed into provides her with the love and care she will need to get beyond this desertion. So very sad.


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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
37. Poor child - I hope the 'parents' / a**holes are scorned by humans for the rest of their lives
From what I've read, it appears these s*its had no intention of keeping her. She doesn't know Dutch, doesn't have Dutch nationality (or ANY nationality for that matter) and they're complaining she couldn't adapt to Dutch culture after being adopted at four months? :wtf:

They've ruined her life. They're the only family she's known, and they've abandoned her. Bastards.

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. assholes.
I don't care if she did have attachment disorder - what would they have done if they'd had a biological child with mental health problems?

Adoption isn't a rental agreement, nor does it come with a "trial period".

:mad:
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
45. As the mother of a 5 year old daughter adopted from China
I am sickened and disgusted by this couple's actions. I hope that there is some law they can be prosecuted under and to the fullest extent possible. When we adopted our daughter, my husband and I had to sign statements saying we would raise her as if she were our natural child and would not abandon her. How they can do what they did is beyond me. 5 minutes after my daughter was put in my arms, had anyone tried to take her from me, I would have gutted them with a blunt instrument.
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
48. Ya see, you gotta be Dutch to eat Dutch food
The South Korean Consulate in Hong Kong said that Mr and Mrs Poeteray had complained that Jade was not adapting to Dutch culture or food. That is the reason they gave for why they want to discontinue the relationship, a South Korean official said.

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. Ain't that something? They adopted the child
when she was 4 months old.
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
50. Picture of the asshole:
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