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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:06 PM
Original message
Is there a growing Republican party split among its voters?
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 03:15 PM by mmonk
The past week, I've been noticing more anti-bush stickers of the W with a slash through it on Paul supporters cars and more Ron Paul signs along the routes I take. Today, I actually had a Ron Paul supporter pass me and beep his horn in support of my anti-bush stickers. I was wondering if people think all this is coming from independents and Libertarians or is there some fissure from Republican party voters (on contitutional grounds)?
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ron Paul is anti-Bush. He's always been anti-Bush.
Bush's government spends money like a bunch of drunk Ted Stevens clones.

Ron Paul wants government spending mostly eliminated.

'Nuff said.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. If Ron Paul would run as an independent he would kill any hope
the GOP has of retaining the presidency. There are an awful lot of people that support him and might not even vote if he's not the GOP's candidate in 2008.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Republicans have no leader right now.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 03:18 PM by sfexpat2000
Bush is tainted an on the wain and no one has stepped up to unite the party into the future.

Hackabee looks extreme to them, Romney looks sort of wacky and has a mixed record, Tancredo and Hunter aren't even registering. McCain is tanking. They don't know where to step, imho.

/oops
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. They knew where to step.. problem is
they can't get any illegals to clean it off for them...
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. I saw on another site
Think Progress I think that Bush's name wasn't mentioned even once in the last pub debate. That's pretty pathetic.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. But we can't impeach him because we don't have enough votes.
Right.

These rats would do ANYTHING to get away from his unpopularity. They'd do it for that reason only because they're about to lose everything but the Supreme Court and they all want to dance away from that tsunami.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. You bet there is a fissure
Fiscal GOPs are just as sick of religious nutbar bullies as we are. I fully expect to see a split in that party, although I don't expect to see it before the next election.

My guess is that the RNC will run Hucksterbible in the front to bring in the fundies but some corporate tool in the #2 slot (like Cheney) to appease the party's rank and file cheapskates.

If the party is handed a huge defeat (and that's a very big IF), then the coalition among the rich, the stupid, and the Dispensationalist will break down. The latter will either splinter off to form their own party or the rank and file GOP will. If the defeat is a small one, the breakdown will be a prolonged one. It will happen, though.

The only thing that will hold such an unstable coalition together is another win, even another cheated one. That is a distinct possibility if the Democrats run another campaign aimed at the fictional GOP swing voter instead of at their own party base, a base that grows more alienated every single day.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. the coalition among the rich, the stupid, and the Dispensationalist
I'll have to remember that phrase. I tend to agree with everything in your post except the Ron Paul people are so visible it smells of revolt this election.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. How would you feel if you had been stupid enough to vote for Junior?
They bought the snake oil, they preached loud and long for decades about the virtues of GOP rule. Now look how it's turned out after six years of Junior and a lapdog GOP congress.

When I fight in email wars nobody comes to Junior's defense and most of the right wingers join in the criticism. Lots of the Republicans of yore are now saying they are Independents, not Republicans, who endorse libertarian sentiments. And they're trying to make it retroactive by saying they've always been that way.

Some are coming out as Paulards, but there's not many who are stupid enough to support that knucklehead. Not even Republicans.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've noticed a sharper split between their "value" voters and business voters.
Immigration was the start of it but Huckabee has really thrown the big business repubs for a loop. I don't think they were quite ready for his gain in popularity. Assuming probably that one of the big business types like Rudy or Romney would keep the lead.
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Clairez Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. No clear front runner
It seems the repubs are having a hard time trying to pick a candidate.

As you mention the fiscal conservatives and the social conservatives don't seem to be able to reach any kind of consensus. For awhile it looked like Rudy was a sure bet, but I have seen a lot of the religious wing of the Repubs say that they will vote 3rd party of stay home if he is nominated.

The religious right seems right now to be supporting either Hucklebee or Thompson. I think we will have a better idea of what is what by the time we finish the primaries in SC.
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Happyhippychick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. The fraction of the Republicans became abundantly clear to me when
I was watching Pat Buchanan on Dan Abrahams show absolutely trashing George Bush for being arrogant and dangerous (regarding the NIE report denial). I thought for a moment I was dying because it's the first time in my life I have ever agreed with that man.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. I have yet to see a Ron Paul sticker or any sticker for a GOP candidate.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I saw yard signs (Derry, PA near Greensburg) and several bumper stickers in the area, incl.
Pittsburgh.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. The first political signs I saw were for Paul
This is in northwest AR, a very conservative part of the state. The signs were hand made out of torn up pieces of boxes--black markers made the letters. Now I'm seeing professionally printed signs and bumper stickers.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. You're lucky.
The only candidate signs I see are Ron Paul signs. Bumper stickers are another story but it's as if it's Paul vs no one around here when it comes to signs.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. When it comes time to vote, they will show up at the polls and vote for anyone
nominated. The r's are zealots.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have Libertarian and Republican friends
and neither like Bush. But they support different candidates-the Libertarians go for Paul, and the Republicans, believe it or not, are looking favorably on Kucinich because of his honest and willingness to walk his talk.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. There should be a schism
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 03:50 PM by Alcibiades
Bush has discredited the Republicans for a generation, just as Hoover did. Now, whenever someone says something crazy such as "let's increase government revenue by cutting taxes," or "let's start a land war in Asia," we can point to the Bush years.

I'm a lifelong Democrat, but I miss the old GOP. At least you could talk politics sensibly with old-style Republicans. They had principles and were willing to put the country above politics, whereas for Bushies ideology and political advantage are everything, real principles count for nothing, and patriotism is a thing to be used by rulers looking to dupe the masses.

There have been some prominent Republicans (i.e. what political scientists would call the political elite of that party) to come out against Bush:

Some pre-Reagan-era Republicans are pissed at Bush. Former Nixon administration official Craig Paul Roberts has been more consistent in his opposition to Bush than many Democrats in our House leadership. On the right, Bush has made Barry Goldwater seem, in retrospect, the model of the responsible statesman. Victor Gold, Goldwater's Deputy Press Secretary, has written a book slamming Bush that is worth reading, if only to counter the arguments put forward by Bushies with actual arguments put forward by a real conservative.

There has been an outpouring of recriminations from former Bush administrations officials who Bush screwed in some way: former Bush Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill wrote a book slamming Bush; Scott McClellan's deeply bitter about being made to seem an ass in front of the Washington press corps (though of course he is one); ditto for Colin Powell, who was made to seem an ass in front of the UN (even though, until he beat the drum for Iraqi WMD's, he was not a total ass); former EPA Administrator (and NJ Gov) Whitman is yet another who has written a book critical of Bush (which I skimmed--don't bother reading it, it's not terribly worthwhile. She does not get that there's no room for her in today's GOP). Whitman has also formed a PAC to elect moderate Republicans.

Those are just the ones I can come up with off the top of my head. Is there a definitive list out there? Could we create one? Seriously, I miss the old, non-crazy GOP. I mean, they believed in some crazy shit, but at least they were not floridly psychotic.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. The real chasm is between Goldwater types and the Radical Religious Right.
Neither group is likely to endorse Paul (whose support isn't nearly as big as we are led to believe--they've apparently wildly inflated their Google presence, for one).
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. I hope so. -n/t
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. Republican identity crisis
Pew Political Trends Survey



The survey, by Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, found a "dramatic shift" in political party identification since 2002, when Republicans and Democrats were at rough parity.

The survey found that the shift was largely due to the defection of independents from the Republican party.



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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
22. The Corrupt Bastards Club is a put off to good Christians.
It seems that torture is selling rather quickly with the followers of Jesus.
If only the Romans had waterboarded Jesus, we might have a real schism. :rofl:
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