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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:33 AM
Original message
religiously insane Iraqi teen boys threaten teen girls with death

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...


(Another Scarf Accounting)


Iraq's Youthful Militiamen Build Power Through Fear
Schoolgirls Told to Wear Scarves, Under Threat of Death


On the first day of class, two male teenagers entered a girls' high school in the Tobji neighborhood, clutching AK-47 assault rifles. The young Shiite fighters handed the principal a handwritten note and ordered her to assemble the students in the courtyard, witnesses said.

"All girls must wear hijab," she read aloud, her voice trembling. "If the girls don't wear hijab, we will close the school or kill the girls."

That October day Sara Mustafa, 14, a secular Sunni Arab, also trembled. The next morning, she covered up with an Islamic head scarf for the first time. The young fighters now controlled her life. "We could not do anything," Sara recalled.

The Mahdi Army of Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr is using a new generation of youths, some as young as 15, to expand and tighten its grip across Baghdad, but the ruthlessness of some of these young fighters is alienating Sunnis and Shiites alike.

-snip-

"We have to show people we are not weak," said Ali, a 19-year-old Mahdi Army fighter in Tobji.

'I Was in Control. I Ruled'

-snip-

"They can convince anybody," Ali said. "If they tell you that your father is a bad man, you will be more than happy to kill your father."

-snip-

Another neighbor, a divorced woman, was killed after Ali mentioned that he had heard on the street that she was a prostitute -- a crime in the view of the militia -- although he had no proof. One of her assassins, Ali said, was a 17-year-old named Saad, who had joined at age 15.

-snip-

"Why plant extremist ideas in children?" Salih asked bitterly.

Today, Sara's head scarf has become a metaphor for the militia's grip on her neighborhood. "It feels like someone is choking me," she said.
------------------------------



religiously insane men and boys are choking you


weed the religiously insane men out of your societies

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. What happened to the "freedom" we brought Iraq?
Did we just replace the old thugs with new ones? Sounds like it. Sure, Saddam Hussein was a criminal. So, now that these new criminals have taken over, are the people freer? How so?

I've always been horrified at the death toll that our invasion brought to Iraq. The extent of the religious fanaticism and violence against the moderates must be even more horrifying. It seems to get worse and worse in Iraq.
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh yes, getting rid of religion will help Iraq
:sarcasm:

Notice how none of this violence was happening in Iraq prior to 2003? I wonder what happened. Did someone bring religion to Iraq or was it something else?
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I did not say get rid of religion - read it again
nt
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. "weed the religiously insane men out of your societies"
Yeah, OK, so this isn't "get rid of religion." It's actually even less practical advice.

I'll call my congressional representative and have her motion for a bill to drop leaflets all over Iraq saying "weed the religiously insane men out of your societies" and everything will be fine. I'll make sure you get credit for the idea.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. ok
nt
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Religion is one of the weapons in the arsenal of oppression.
Oppressors find it handy. It does not even require a rationale.

--IMM
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Nevertheless it is a human right to be religious
The UN Declaration of Human Rights enumerates freedom of belief as a basic human right.

You aren't against human rights, are you?
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. the human right to not get killed by a religious freak
trumps religious freedom, as far as I understand human rights. how is this any different than burning witches at the stake? should that religious belief be protected by human rights declarations? Religion as a private, personal belief is one thing. a religious belief that gives the believer "authority" to control and kill others is a perversion of religious purpose.

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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. "the human right to not get killed by a religious freak"?!
as far as I understand human rights.

I'm willing to believe that this is as far as you understand human rights.

how is this any different than burning witches at the stake?

These people were murdered (allegedly) for their religious beliefs. In reality, most "witches" were accused for political reasons. Nevertheless, had they been actual "heretics" they should have had that right.

Religion as a private, personal belief is one thing. a religious belief that gives the believer "authority" to control and kill others is a perversion of religious purpose.

I agree it's a perversion of religious purpose, but that doesn't mean I think we should suspend the rights of the vast majority of people because some people are bad.

Saddam Hussein used to summarily execute the people described in the OP. Is that what you would consider "the good old days"?
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I wouldn't want to punish people for what they believe.
(Rest assured that I am a strong proponent of human rights, in case that's what you're worried about.)

Beliefs are an aspect of personality and quite unique. Beliefs can change, but they'll still be unique. Individual differences in perception, judgment, processing, temperament, aesthetics, and other factors all contribute. In some cases practicing religion means surrendering some independence. So freedom can be a commodity. But everybody has the right to his religion, even yours. (Caveat: religions should not be allowed to kill people, sacrifice animals, take over governments, run untaxed businesses, etc.)

--IMM
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Yeah, Saddam's dictatorship was better for women
than a religious one. what happened was that the U.S. fucked a country in the ass, unleashing the hell that others warned them about before the invasion, and now people in the media, etc. say... whaaaa... we never knew...

frankly, I cannot think of one good thing fundamentalist religion has done for any nation since, oh, 1600.

can you?
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I can't think of where fundamentalist relgion has ever done ANYONE any good.
We're in agreement on that.

And yeah, although Saddam was a terrible criminal, his secular Iraq was an improvement over the mess we have today. It's similar to Iran in 1979... the people were so angry and so ready for change, they didn't realize what monsters they were putting in power. The difference here is that the British and Americans opened this Pandora's box, not the people of Iraq. American mythology demonized the Sunnis, but the Iraqi Sunnis were much less fundamentalist than the Shi'ites. Cutting them out of the government and economy changed that pretty quickly.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. kicking to save a girl's life
nt
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