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Torture has not prevented a single attack on America. How do I know this?

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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:27 AM
Original message
Torture has not prevented a single attack on America. How do I know this?
Because if it had, the Administration and their media toolbox would have shouted it from the rooftops the MINUTE they got the information.

Forget all the generic "Torture has prevented attacks" claims from the White House, the CIA and Pentagon. I call 'Bullshit'. If torture had foiled ONE bona-fide plan to attack American targets, this Administration would have been all OVER the news trumpeting the success that very day. The RW scream machine would have gone into high gear. Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly would have come all over themselves.

Look at the hype surrounding the Miami goofballs, the JFK airport pizza delivery man 'plot', and that poor stupid bastard Jose Padilla. If the Bush gang thinks they have something on you, FOX, Blitzer and the rest of the stenographers in the media will have in it every American living room by dinner time.

Torture has not prevented one attack. Bank it.
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Fresh air with terry gross(sp)
interviewed the top hostage/kidnapping??? negotiator/interigator dude from the CIA that was retiring. he succeeded using honey. and he said hard was counterproductive.
obviously it doesn't work. cause they keep trotting out these saying lives have been saved, we haven't been attacked blah blah blah.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Wish I could have heard that.
I like Terry Gross, but our NPR station doesn't carry her. :(
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. hi Uncle Richardo
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. This is why you're my favorite niece CW....
Thank you! :hi: :pals: :loveya:
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Amen.
Etc.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. .
:hi:
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Their is also no evidence it would have prevented 911 were it employed
So where is the justification?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Ditto for wiretapping which was going on before 9/11.
The terrorism prevention argument is baloney.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I LOVE when the Reich-Wingers bring up 9/11 -
the fact is, we had LOADS of information pointing to the kind of attack that actually took place on that day. The only problem was, those at the top refused to pay attention to it!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. My reply when someone says: "I'm glad Gore wasn't President when 9/11 happened":
I say: "If Gore were President 9/11 wouldn't have happened."
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yep. Where do you hear that one?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I don't hear the first one much anymore at all - even in Texas
HA! :rofl:

As for the response - that's mine as far as I know.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. Torture interrogation has been shown to be ineffective at gaining information. (eom)
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. What has prevented another attack on America?
Obviously not torture. But for some reason there has not been an attack since 2001.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. One before 9/11 was in '93.
So a long gap isn't really anything new. And before you mention the embassy bombings don't forget that 4,000 troops have died in iraq.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I assumed the OP was speaking about an attack on America
and not other interests around the world. And since some feel we are creating thousands of new terrorists by our actions in Iraq, one might think something would have happened in the last seven years.

Why do you think there was a gap between 1993 and 2001?
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I personally
believe that the major attacks are sponsored by rich financiers for their own benefit.

The average muslim fundamentalist doesn't have the means or opportunity to carry out a large attack on American soil. The fundamentalists fighting in Iraq are already in a target-rich environment. No need to hop on a plane and cross the Atlantic.
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Asgaya Dihi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Just time
We're an impatient people and we expect things to happen one right after the other. The people who hit the towers aren't an impatient people. It was seven or eight years between the first attack on the towers and the second, we didn't torture or do anything special to get that time. So it's been six years since the last, if it's another year or three before we get another they'll be right about on schedule.

Call me when we see twenty years or so clear and tensions between the cultures on the decline, then I'll be impressed. Right now all I see is more enemies and according to the last reports I've seen in most ways we haven't improved. We haven't secured things such as ports, tests on airports are still getting test bombs and weapons through on a regular basis, and so on. We do have more enemies than we used to though and as I said above, they've got time to plan and work on it. They aren't an impatient people.

Personally I don't think all the security and military in the world would make us half as safe as changing policies to be less predatory would. We've made a lot of enemies in the name of business alone, Israel and all of that complicated stuff aside. Rather than try to make ourselves a fortress nation maybe we should look at why we have so many enemies and see what we can do about that part.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I agree.
The terrorists are nothing if not patient. My theory is that there are cells in place now, but my fear is not another large scale attack, but monthly or biweekly 'small scale; carbombs and suicide bombers in downtown business districts and/or suburban shopping areas.

Want to see a permanent suspension of the Constitution? Wait til THAT starts happening. The Patriot Act will look like the First Amendment in comparison.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. torture is an extremely ineffective means of gaining infomation, just ask the city of Chicago
Chicago Deal to Pay $20 Million in Police Torture Case Hits Roadblock

The City of Chicagos landmark decision to pay nearly $20 million dollars to four former death row prisoners tortured by Chicago police has hit a roadblock. The four menall African Americansued former Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and more than twenty officers who worked with him, alleging that they were coerced into falsely confessing to murder in the 1980s.
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/13/chicago_deal_to_...

Tortured confessions by the police of over 130 men in the '80s are costing the city bigtime. Some of the men ended up on death row for crimes they didn't commit. Great information gathering eh?
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Very true... and that leaves us with some thoughts...
Why?

Because...

They like it? They have some misguided inkling that knowing people are being tortured will somehow keep other boys and girls from being naughty?

I think they derive perverse pleasure with this crap.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. when you're president encourages torture, you must remove him from office...the world knows better
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. It damned sure didn't stop the ANTHRAX ATTACKS
Oh, yes, the forgotten terrorist attacks that happened after 9/11.

It's funny that no politician seems to remember them. They killed people and the source was never discovered.

Perhaps because it was an inside job? We're good at those....

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