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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:48 AM
Original message
These coal operations need to be shut down...
...Watch the slide show and click on captions:

http://alternet.org/story/70475/?page=1
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. They sure do
Whatever happened to that criminal Murray from the Crandon mine?
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I heard his son replaced him at Murray Energy
Apparently his little performance was the incentive the company needed to force him into unofficial retirement. By all accounts, the son is sane.

Bob Murray was known for holding Republican fundraisers and forcing his employees to donate and attend. All that fundraising might explain why his Senate hearing has been indefinitely delayed.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695232487,00.html


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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks for the link n/t
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'd guess they'll just wait until the public has forgotten about him ...
...and then give him a slap on the wrist and he'll be on his way. I'm sure he's always contributed to the right coffers -- he shouldn't have much to worry about.

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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. So you prefer we send miners underground to supply your energy?
Topping mountains is a much safer way to mine coal than underground mining. Until we reduce our energy consumption or have alternative energy in place this will continue.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. No, I'd like to see the burning of fossil fuels phased out altogether...
...If we must use coal (I'm not convinced we need to) I think traditional mining methods with adequate safety precautions would be preferable to blasting off mountain tops.

You say, "Topping mountains is a much safer way to mine coal than underground mining." Safer for who? Did you watch the slide show and read the captions?
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. 47 miners died in the coal mines last year.
Considering that coal fired power plants produce over 50% of our nations power I don't see it being phased out anytime soon. How do we replace this lost production?

Traditional mines produce their own environmental damage to the surrounding area. The fact is forty seven died extracting coal in traditional mining operations last year. That is more deadly than mountain topping. If anything the mountain topping operations need to change the way they operate to reduce the hazards in the surrounding community.

I would like to hear how you would replace the lost energy production from coal burning plants. Personally I would like to see more use of solar & wind production but right now solar is out of reach for most Americans. In my area wind production is not even feasible. If you drive around the neighborhood this time of year you will also notice peoples total lack of concern about energy use.





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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. The 47 miners dying in coal mines last year...
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:42 PM by Mr_Jefferson_24
...while tragic, does not, in my opinion, argue for blasting off mountain tops as the new and safer alternative. This method of mining wasn't chosen based on safety considerations, it was chosen based on the corporate bottom line.

Burning coal, as with other fossil fuels, contributes to global warming and environmental pollution/degradation at levels that are simply no longer acceptable. We need to make use of clean alternatives.

As to your question of replacing lost energy production, I'd say this is why fossil fuel burning should be phased out over time. Our government does not put anything meaningful into alternative energy R&D programs, it's all in the hands of big corporations who don't want change.

Here's a pretty good presentation on mountain topping that's now going on in West Virginia:

1 of 5: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ziuFW-7h1LM&feature=related

2 of 5: http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFoAFLHmov4

3 of 5: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3DK0TjaEQpU

Note: I wasn't able to find part 4 which is on the coal companies, or part 5 which is on water.

If you have Adobe flash player you may be able to view them at this site:

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/3/30/165055/133


Commentary of youtuber Chgochef:

Do you know what happens to the debri that is leftover after they blow the tops off? It rolls down the sides of the mountains and into the creeks. The people that live in the valley are on well water. They end up with the toxins in their system which in turn gives them cancer.

I have a two year old cousin that has cancer. The doctors at children's memorial in Chicago think that the cancer is due from the toxins left over from the mountain top drilling.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. YES
People or forests? People, the last time I checked, were in no danger of becoming extinct.

Save the forests.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. All depends if you are the one doing the dying I suppose.
Do you think the miners WANT to go underground? They do it for money to put food on their tables. Have you ever been to a mall? What do you suppose they had to clear off that land to build the place? The good thing is that when the coal is depleted the land can return to forest. That doesn't happen with a mall. Same thing with suburbia, how many acres of forest is lost each year so people can have a lawn to mow? How about the home you live in? How many trees died to construct it?

Oh, thank you for your lack of concern for miners lives. I am willing to bet you appreciate their work every day when you enjoy the cheap electricity they give their lives for.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm pretty much anti-growth across the board. That includes anti-mall.
And I don't live in suburbia. I have to kick the chickens out of my way as I walk out to the garage every morning.

Yes, my house was built using trees that were cut, but it's a small house and not some insane McMansion. Logging can be done in a sustainable and ecologically compatible way, so that strawman doesn't hold much water with me.

Coal mining permanently destroys the landscape. It destroys the natural watercourses, poisons the land, and results in unpacked topsoil that is highly prone to erosion. Eroding soil, and especially poisoned, sterile eroding soil, cannot be reforested. That land won't stabilize into anything even remotely resembling a natural environment for another 500 years.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Um, many of them DO want to go underground
I come from a coal-mining family and most of them really like their jobs. It's in the blood, as they say.

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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. Here's another good video on mountain top removal...
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