Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

WWII Only 25% fired their weapons in combat - Made Up Stat by Author?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:13 PM
Original message
WWII Only 25% fired their weapons in combat - Made Up Stat by Author?
Edited on Thu Dec-13-07 01:17 PM by RamboLiberal
It is one of the most remarkable—and enduring—statistics about the way men fight war: in combat no more than a quarter of fighting men, even disciplined and well-trained soldiers, will fire their weapons. The claim, first made by military historian S.L.A. Marshall in his 1947 book, "Men Against Fire," has become accepted wisdom. John Keegan, the popular historian of war, repeats it in his landmark 1976 study, "The Face of Battle." So does historian Max Hastings in his widely read 1984 book on the D-Day invasion, "Overlord." The reason soldiers don't shoot, explained Marshall, who claimed to have interviewed thousands of American GIs in World War II, is not that they are afraid, exactly—although inertia, he wrote, is "fear's twin." Rather, they are restrained by a civilizing impulse not to kill and a faith that a few heroes will emerge to carry the action—which, Marshall wrote, is generally what happens.

Over the years hundreds of journalists have quoted Marshall's famous study—including me, in the pages of NEWSWEEK. But last month a reader sent me a copy of a March 1989 article from American Heritage magazine that set me straight. In fact, there is no real evidence that so few soldiers open fire, writes Frederick Smoler in "The Secret of the Soldiers Who Don't Shoot." "It just may be," concludes Smoler, "that Samuel Lyman Marshall made the whole thing up." Smoler reports on the digging of Harold P. (Bud) Leinbaugh, an Army infantryman who saw a lot of combat in Europe during the war, and a military historian named Roger Spiller. Both men were skeptical about Marshall's claim, and they decided to look into his research. They discovered that among the soldiers Marshall interviewed at Makin Island, a battle in the Pacific, there was a tendency to fire too much, not too little—to blaze away for no good reason. Marshall seems to have just invented his interviews in the European theater.

Why would Marshall make up such a thing? Marshall was "by professional upbringing and temperament a journalist above all," wrote Spiller. Like many journalists then (and now), he was in love with the heroic ideal, that one man among many might stand up to carry the day. "Marshall may have come to war wanting it to be the place where single heroes counted," says Leinbaugh. Marshall himself apparently loved to play soldier, and he wanted to demonstrate that he knew more about combat than anyone else. His books seemed so detailed and persuasive, and he appeared to have interviewed so many soldiers, that readers believed him. Why did professional historians swallow Marshall's claim? "Intellectual sloth," wrote Spiller. Marshall's theory seemed to "promise entree into the hidden world of combat." (A 1994 New York Times review of "Reconciliation Road," a memoir by Marshall's grandson John Douglas Marshall that's mostly about his grandfather's assertion, concludes, "the most that the author can show is that his grandfather had tried to quantify what should have remained conjecture …")

Marshall claimed to have led men in combat in World War I. Apparently, that too was fiction. Marshall's regiment in World War I was behind the lines, involved in road work and building delousing stations. Leinbaugh discovered records of Marshall's unit, which include such stirring reports as "1 mule killed by kick from mule. Drop from rolls." By the time Marshall was writing his World War II histories, he was claiming to have fought with three infantry regiments in two different divisions and in three separate countries. The U.S. Army embraced Marshall as its quasi-official historian. The only real skeptics at the time were a few of the soldiers whom Marshall profiled in his histories, like "The Men of Company K." Asked one old Company K sergeant, "Did the SOB think we clubbed the Germans to death?"

http://www.newsweek.com/id/76997
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fascinating
I've heard that statistic many times. Thanks for posting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. This happens more than we like to believe
Once an idea becomes set, than it is orthodoxy that never needs to be checked.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. The U.S Army accepts the 25% figures
I'm more inclined to believe them than a right wing rag like American Heritage. Even in Vietnam, with American conscripts having undergrone brutal training intended to overcome the reluctance of soldiers to kill in WWII, only 60% of soldiers in combat ever fired their guns. One thing that Marshall noted was that soldiers with automatic weapons like the BAR or machineguns were more likely to use the weapons. I guess if you're in heavy combat with mortars dropping all over the place, tanks rampaging about, aircraft dropping bombs left and right, then firing your little M-1 semiautomatic seems kinda futile. Better to hide and wait the destruction out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I also tend to take with at least a grain of salt anything published there...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC