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Oh yeah, there's just one itsy bitsy problem with the FairTax, it's unconstitutional.

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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 09:58 PM
Original message
Oh yeah, there's just one itsy bitsy problem with the FairTax, it's unconstitutional.
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 09:59 PM by originalpckelly
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." -16th Amendment, US Constitution

Uh, yeah, that whole sales tax thing is not an income tax, but rather a consumption tax.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. And it certainly isn't "fair"
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's income to businesses
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 10:46 PM by boloboffin
ETA: The tax is stupid, of course.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Does this mean that all other federal taxes
Per Section II article 8, Congress has the authority to collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises. The only limitation is they shall be uniform throughout the United States. A 23% excise tax imposed on sales of goods and services applicable to all citizens of the United States seems to meet the basic constitutional requirement. Remember the 16th was passed to get around this requirement of taxes being uniform and apportioned through the Union.
The amendment does not void the basic tax authority/requirement of article 8. It give Congress the added authority to tax incomes. This is in addition to other tax authority found in the Constitution. Just My Opinion
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. You are correct
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 09:10 AM by alcibiades_mystery
I love when some DUer supposedly "discovers" the flaw in a complex argument.

I feel like saying, "Yes, right, the fair tax proponents are so stupid that they couldn't comport their proposal with the basic structure of the US Constitution, and you, DUer, have sniffed it out!"

Only stupidity or arrogance would allow somebody to think they can crack and argument so easily.

The so-called "Fair Tax" is regressive and asinine, but it is not "unconstitutional." That's just silly.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. And you couldn't have said that without being so snide and arrogant?
Your suggestion that DUers are very stupid and could not possibly find something of interest to others is just....:shrug: well I find you not a pleasant person...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Oh
Edited on Wed Dec-12-07 09:23 AM by alcibiades_mystery
I aim for snide. And I appreciate your input.

And I "suggested" nothing of the sort.

Cheers!
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. About whether or not stuff is Constitutional?
I may be hopelessly cynical, but I've written off expecting the courts to rule against any right-wing friendly measure until at least one or two of the Federalist Society darlings kicks the bucket, and have a rational SCOTUS justice appointed in their place.

Beyond that, there are so many good, solid reasons why the "FAIRTAX" nutjob scheme is idiotic, that I wouldn't bother pursuing a legal case against it. If it comes to that, we're well and truly fscrewed.
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Rex_Goodheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-12-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm a Democrat in favor of the Fair Tax
As a management accountant and CFO I've seen how significantly wasteful our present income tax system, the IRS, and compliance accounting and reporting are. I'm sure that I spent a third of my time doing things made necessary by a complicated income tax code. Furthermore, manipulation of revenues and expenses to arrive at income is complicated in and of itself, not to mention the serious corresponding opportunities for cheating.

The Fair Tax certainly doesn't have to be regressive if reimbursements are made to cover a certain minimum standard of consumption. At any rate, I believe that the boon to our economy would more than compensate for any regression.

By the way, the only Fair Tax I would support is one that taxes all exchanges of values, including stocks, bonds, and real estate.

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