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Amy6627 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:32 PM
Original message
COVERT AGENT SPEAKS OUT
Link: http://artofmentalwarfare.com/pog/covert-agent-speaks-o... /

Editors Note: This message comes from an anonymous source believed to be within the US intelligence community. Some of the statements cannot be verified for authenticity, but the general themes and references speak for themselves. Ive researched everything that is possible to research and it all stands up. I have no reason to believe any of this is untrue. Read it and decide for yourself.

Confessions of a Covert Agent

Everything Ive done has been highly classified, all black programs and black operations. Some people I know thought I worked for the CIA, but its much more complicated than that. Ive worked with people in the CIA, DIA, NSC, NSA, SAIC, Army Intel and many more lesser known agencies within the intelligence apparatus.

Before focusing on PsyOps I started out running covert combat missions, special operations. I was good at what I did and rose through the ranks fast. When the War on Terror started I was paid a lot of money to consult with private military contractors. When private paramilitary units needed to get the jobs done that paid the most money they would come to me with checkbooks filled with US taxpayer dough.

More here: http://artofmentalwarfare.com/pog/covert-agent-speaks-o...
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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. I found this snippet in the link you posted above.

A little side note for you: I firmly believe Robert Gates, the current Secretary of Defense and Bush Sr.s right-hand man in the covert world, used computer cryptography and software security assets to get Bush Jr. elected both times. I do not have direct knowledge of the operation, but research Robert Gates, Bill Owens, electronic voting security, HAVA, VoteHere and Scientific Applications International Corp. The operation went so well that Gates was going to be made the first ever Director of National Intelligence. He turned down the job, but then took the Secretary of Defense position when Rumsfeld was removed from his public position. I dont think there will ever be solid evidence linking directly to members of the administration; its all a tangled web of plausible deniability. But I do think it will eventually be proven that the elections were manipulated to deliver Bush the victory. Many people in the covert world take this for granted, as common sense.



Many of us have suspected a "fix", but I've not read anywhere else that Gates was involved. I guess I'll go google on what he suggests now and see what I can find.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. good post - welcome to DU
To be honest, I think most people - even outside the DU community - think at least the 2000 election was fixed for Bush:

There was a widely circulated email following the elections that parodied those Mastercard "Priceless" ads and the punchline was something about it being priceless having a brother and his good ole boy friends being able to fix elections.

But, I also think that most people think something a little funny goes on all the time and it was just that in 2000, the Republics did it better than the Dems.



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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Well, they're wrong.
That's pure propaganda. We won. They lost. They stole. 2000. 2004.

And if Gates was involved I would be jubilant to see him hanged.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. That was what I said
I said most people believe the 2000 election was fixed/stolen/whatever for Bush. And, I don't mean the DU community - the country in general, I mean.

Like I said, the tagline on that email was something like, "Having a brother who can ensure the good ole boys steal the election for you - priceless."

However, I get the impression that people think this sort of stuff goes on all the time and that in 2000, it was just the Republics got the better of the Democrats.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Which was part of the propaganda.
The whole everybody does it meme. People don't think that by accident. They were flat out told on every Sunday talk show. It's just politics. If the Democrats had won, the Republicans would be saying the same thing. It's business as usual. Six of one half a dozen of the other.

Since nobody they habitually watched looked aghast, horrified, frightened at what had happened, they accepted that nothing had happened because "if it had, it would have been on the news."
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. oh, i believe that!
remember rove in the "situation room" with his computers?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. Yeah, I take it as "common sense"
too..even before I read this..thanks for this!
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. Additional source verification of above-
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 07:49 PM by BeHereNow
"Diebold has now taken steps to use an outside organization, Scientific Applications International Corporation (SAIC) of San Diego, to take responsibility for security issues within their software. But this presents yet another conflict of interest. A majority of officials on the board are former members of either the #6
"Pentagon or the CIA, many of whom are closely allied with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Members of the board of directors include: Army Gen. Wayne Downing, former chief counter-terrorism expert on the National Security Council; Former CIA Director Bobby Ray Inman; Retired Adm. William Owens, who served as former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and now sits on Donald Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board; Robert Gates, former director of the CIA and veteran of the Iran Contra scandal. Additionally, SAIC has had a plethora of charges brought against them including indictments by the Justice Department for the mismanagement of a Superfund toxic cleanup and misappropriation of funds in the purchase of F-15 fighter jets.

Some of the most generous contributors to Republican campaigns are also some of the largest investors in ES&S, Sequoia, and Diebold. Most notable of these are government defense contractors Northrup-Grumman, Lockheed-Martin, Electronic Data Systems (EDS) and Accenture, a member of the U.S. Coalition of Service Industries and a major proponent of privatization and Free Trade of services provided by the WTO and GATT. None of these contractors are politically neutral, and all have high stakes in the construction of electronic voting systems. Accenture was involved in financial scandals, and charged with incompetence in both Canada and the US throughout the '90s and 2000s.

Under the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) passed in October of 2002, states have been required to submit plans to make the switch from punch cards to a primarily electronic system in time for the 2004 elections. It should be noted that the voting machine companies continue to hold title to the software even after implementation. Populex, the company contracted to provide voting systems in Illinois has former Defense Secretary, Frank Carlucci, on its advisory board."
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Project-Censored-2...
(Do not fail to note Frank Carlucci mention, last sentence...that says it all.)
Welcome to DU!
BHN
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. What he said.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Something is happening here, but ya dont know what it is. Do you, Mr. Jones?
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 02:58 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgrKJueuSZw

You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard
But you don't understand
Just what you'll say
When you get home

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You raise up your head
And you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says
"It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?"
And somebody else says, "Where what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God
Am I here all alone?"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect
Anyway they already expect you
To just give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations

You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin' around
You should be made
To wear earphones

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?





Huey and the Ballad of a Thin Man



Among his tales of police brutality and revolutionary fervour, Seale inserted a chapter entitled Huey Digs Bob Dylan. The setting is the home of radical lawyer Beverly Axelrod in 1966: Newton and Seale are laying up the pages for the first issue of their party newspaper, cunningly titled The Black Panther. While we were laying that paper out, in the background we could hear a record, and the song was named Ballad of a Thin Man by Bob Dylan. Now the melody was in my head... but I didnt really hear the words. This record played after we stayed up laying out the paper. And it played the next night after we stayed up laying out the paper. I think it was around the third afternoon that the record was playing. We played that record over and over and over.

Huey P. Newton made me recognize the lyrics. Not only the lyrics of the record, but what the lyrics meant in the record. What the lyrics meant in the history of racism that had perpetuated itself in the world. Huey would say: Listen, listen man, do you hear what he is saying? Huey had such insight into how racism existed, how racism had perpetuated himself. He had such a way of putting forth in very clear words what he related directly to those symbolic things or words that were coming out from Bobby Dylan. I remember that the song got to the point where he was talking about this cat handing in his ticket and he walked up to the geek, and the geek handed him a bone. Well, this didnt relate to me, so I said: Huey, look, wait a minute, man. I said, What are you talking about a geek? What is a geek? What the hell is a geek? And Huey explains it.

Newtons explanation runs for almost a page: a geek, he tells Seale, is usually a circus performer, who has been badly injured and cant work any longer. But he knows no other life than the circus, so he agrees to do the lowliest jobs just to stay in the community. Maybe he even agrees to eat live chickens in a cage as a freak attraction. Newton continues: These people who are coming in to see him are coming in for entertainment, so they are the real freaks. And the geek knows this, so during his performance, he eats the raw chicken and he hands one of the members of the audience a bone. Then to put it on the broader level, what Dylan is putting across is middle-class people or upper-class people who sometimes take a Sunday afternoon off and put their whole family into a limousine, and they go down to the black ghettos to watch the prostitutes and watch the decaying community.(...) That makes the middle-class and upper-class people, who are down there because they get pleasure out of it, freaks.

And this goes into the one-eyed midget. What is the one-eyed midget? He screams and howls at Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones doesnt know whats happening. Then the one-eyed midget says, give me some juice or go home. And this again is very symbolic of people who are disadvantaged. Theyre patronizing Mr. Jones, the middle-class people. You know, theyre not interested in them coming down for entertainment. But if theyll pay them for a trick, then theyll tolerate them, or else theyll drive them out of the ghettoes. This song is hell. Youve got to understand that this song is saying a hell of a lot about society.

Seale digests this explanation, and notes: Bobby Dylan says, you dont know whats happening, do you, Mr. Jones? And to hand him the naked bone was too much was really too much.

An insignificant if amusing interlude, you might think, suggesting that Huey P. Newton missed his vocation as a literary critic. But as Seale explains later in the chapter, Ballad of a Thin Man came to occupy a key place in the imaginative landscape of the Panthers: This song Bobby Dylan was singing became a very big part of that whole publishing operation of the Black Panther paper. And in the background, while we were putting this paper out, this record came up and I guess a number of papers were published, and many times we would play that record. Brother Stokely Carmichael also liked that record. This record became so related to us, even to the brothers who had held down most of the security for the set.

http://www.judasmagazine.com/pages.asp/peterdoggettj1.a...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. The COINTELPRO Papers -- Documents from the FBI's Secret Wars
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


The COINTELPRO Papers -- Documents from the FBI's Secret Wars
Posted by scarletwoman on Sat Feb-26-05 04:21 PM

Against Dissent in the United States: http://www.southendpress.org/books/Cointelpro2.shtml


"In this detailed review of the subversive activities of the national political police over many years, the authors show that the commitment to undermine free association and independent thought is deeply rooted in national policy and subject to only superficial challenge. Their harrowing and extensively documented study lends much credibility to their supposition that 'COINTELPRO lives on,' and efforts to organize poor and oppressed people and dissident movements will be targeted for destruction by state power." Noam Chomsky

Readers anxious about the loss of civil liberties under George W. Bush will find ground for their fears-and suggestions for activism-in The COINTELPRO Papers. Ward Churchill and Jim Vander Wall's expos of America's political police force, the FBI, reveals the iron fist hiding beneath the velvet glove of "compassionate conservatism."

Reproducing many original FBI memos, the authors provide extensive analysis of the agency's treatment of the left, from the Communist Party in the 1950s to the Central America solidarity movement in the 1980s. {The} substantial new preface to this South End Press Classics edition updates the cases of several incarcerated Black Panthers and analyzes the events at Ruby Ridge and Waco, as well as the wars on drugs and terrorism. Churchill makes a compelling argument that U.S. law enforcement has become thoroughly militarized, with devastating consequences for all those who work for social justice.


Oh, by the way, one of the co-authors of the above book, as well as this, Agents of Repression -- The FBI's Secret Wars Against the Black Panther Party and the American Indian Movement, is WARD CHURCHILL whom some of you are so happy to denounce.

Why don't you "conventional wisdom" bandwagon jumpers who are so happy to bash and denounce Churchill do a little critical thinking and ask yourselves WHY over 3 years after his initially little-noticed post 9/11 essay was first published it was resurrected NOW by the VRWC. This is twofer -- the right is already after "liberal" academics, and with the Chimperor re-installed for a second term, the attacks on dissent are just getting ramped up.

Who better to hit than one of the authors who's published some of the dirtiest secrets of the National Security state?

You people calling him "scum" and worse are fucking fools. You're just abetting the right wing's dirty work. You're buying into your own enshacklement. You might as well be standing with the mob screaming "Give us Barrabas!"

Fucking fools...

sw
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Holy crap
That list is unachievable. No one will impeach anyone, no onw will put anyone on trial, no one will make elections the way they're supposed to be. These evil people have had so many years and so much money to totally control all of these things, it seems impossible to change anything.
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. There could be change if more Americans woke up but I dont...
see that happening. Too many people will look at you and say "you are crazy" if you speak of government corruption and when you show some proof of something in the past or something happening now, they then respond with the pathetic " well if the government is doing that, there is nothing we can do to stop it so I'm not going to worry about it, when it happens directly to me, I will deal with it then". Too many people keep their eyes shut because they don't want to believe or just don't believe our government is not in it for us, the people. The American people have been dumbed down and enslaved by debt and are ultimately to blame for what is happening. We are a country of domestic violence victims but its not from a spouse, its our own government that continues to beat us down just enough to keep us down but not enough to make us leave them and change.

You have to admit that the system in place is working very well for very few and if we don't change, neither will they.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Holy Crap again!
K and R
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's a good, accurate rant, but nothing in it confirms the writer's insider status.
The whole story is, sad to say, public knowledge. Sad because the truth can be had, but anyone who speaks the truth in public is quickly labeled as a "conspiracy theorist".
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. Yep, all true and already known.
The list of action points is well constructed and useful. Maybe the writer feels he'll get more mileage if he represents himself as an insider?
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slowry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Nothing very specific here, and it's all a bit cliche... just my first impression :P n/t
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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is what I found so far
Five former CIA Directors are identified as directly involved in election engineering, overtly or covertly: John Deutch, R. James Woolsey, Bobby Ray Inman, Robert Gates, and George H.W. Bush.

Investigative journalist, Lynn Landes, reports that SAIC (Science Applications International Corp., sometimes also referred to as Scientific Applications International Corp.), of San Diego, California, is described as, the shadow ruling class within the Pentagon, and as a behemoth military defense contractor with a shadowy, if not tarnished reputation, which maintains strong business ties to the military and intelligence communities, such as the NSA and CIA. Many of SAICs board members are formerly with the Pentagon and CIA.

Behemoth military contractor SAIC and ChoicePoint, Inc., of Atlanta, Georgia, have developed a strategic alliance, teaming up as partners in data mining.

SAIC is aligned with a number of major voting machine vendors, including Diebold Election Systems, Hart Intercivic, VoteHere and ES&S (Election Systems & Software).

------------------------

According to INSLAW Owner and CEO, Bill Hamilton, PROMIS software was later sold with companion hardware, with extra signal-sending hardware chips that broadcast data to satellites owned by the NSA.

Robert Gates, a Senior American intelligence and national security official (later, appointed Director of the CIA by President George H.W. Bush), personally peddled the PROMIS software overseas, complete with back doors by which to spy on client countries.

-----------------------------

In January 2005, it was reported at Boston.com, that SAIC was awarded a $170 million contract for a PROMIS-type computer software program for the FBI, intended to help agents share data about terrorist threats and criminal cases. Could SAIC be the keeper of the improved PROMIS technology?

Robert Gates now presides over election engineering, in association with SAIC and VoteHere (satellite cryptography technology).

-------------------------------------

Note that, of the five former CIA Directors identified as directly involved in election engineering, John Deutch is with MIT and Bobby Ray Inman is Caltech-connected.
Career CIA professional, Ray McGovern, wrote unfavorably of Robert Gates, in Chapter 19 of his book, Neo-Conned, as follows: Why dwell on Gates? Because a careerist in both senses of the word, he bears the lions share of responsibility for institutionalizing the corruption of intelligence analysis (at the CIA).

If such is the case, why is Gates presiding over election engineering? Could Robert Gates have interest in institutionalizing the corruption of Americas elections?

----------------------------

MORE AT SOURCE: http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/node/view/2420

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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Here is some more stuff
According to T. Hommel, expert computer programmer, attorney, and Editor of wheresthepaper.org, SAIC, ChoicePoint and Diebold Election Systems now control America's electronic automated elections.

Jeffrey Dean, Senior Vice President of Diebold, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree, of planting back doors in his software, and of using a ?high degree of sophistication? to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

While heading up the development of Diebold's GEMS controversial central compiler software source code at Global Election Systems (later, purchased by Diebold, and renamed Diebold Election Systems), convicted felon, Jeffrey Dean, worked in association with John Silvestro, Owner and CEO of LHS Associates of Methuen, MA, which maintains, pre-programs and configures the voting machines and memory cards of five New England States, including New Hampshire.*

Diebold Election Systems is under tremendous scrutiny nationwide for sales of voting systems proven to be highly vulnerable and easily hackable by anyone from a teenager to a terrorist. Diebold CEO, Walden O?Dell, recently resigned, Diebold shareholders and numerous others have filed suit, and contracts for Diebold voting systems sales and services are in question, and being canceled, throughout the country.

According to Peter Phillips, Director of Project Censored,?Diebold hired Scientific Applications International Corp. (SAIC) of San Diego to develop the software security in their voting machines.

Yet, the State of Maryland hired SAIC as an independent reviewer, to assess Diebold's Accuvote-TS (touch-screen) software security, in light of widespread concerns about its Diebold touch-screen voting machines. On September 2, 2003, SAIC released a ?Risk Assessment Report, with significant deletions, and the media reported that the machines passed muster.

ChoicePoint and its associates lobbied aggressively for a Help America Vote Act (HAVA) provision for federally mandated statewide voter registration databases. ChoicePoint has since bagged the lion's share of state contracts nationwide.

READ MORE AT http://www.ballotintegrity.org/DCForumID1/418.html


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. What ever happened to

R Doug Lewis?
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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. As of Oct 8, 2005........
R. Doug Lewis is the Executive Director of the Election Center in Houston, a private, non-profit organization that serves the elections and voter registration profession<1> by sponsoring training and certification programs for election administrators and vendors. The Election Center has about 1,000 dues-paying members, including state and county election officials and "suppliers of election products and services." <2>

Prior to taking over the Election Center in 1994, Lewis was president and director of Micro Trade Mart, a company that traded in used computer parts. He claims political experience as a presidential assistant, aide to Texas governor John Connolly, and chairman of state Democratic parties. Lewis has developed a continuing education program for election officials and the first Code of Ethics for voter registrars and elections administrators.

SOURCE: http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_conten...

Why worry about Lewis influence?

Computer professionals, citizens groups and independent media committed to the goal of secure, reliable, verifiable and cost effective elections worry about his control over certification of voting machines and his influence on election administrators and workers, with good reason: Under Lewis leadership the Election Center accepts substantial donations from manufacturers of voting machines and sees no conflict of interest in doing so:

Lewis set up and participated in a meeting for vendors to raise money for a massive campaign to influence public opinion. http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/082604Harris/08260...

The Election Center admits to taking large donations from manufacturers of electronic voting machines. See http://www.ncvoter.net/ElectionCenter.html

The Election Center presents itself as an impartial organization for election officials, but its conferences (e.g., Washington D.C., August 2004) feature expensive events sponsored by voting machine companies.

While Lewis is proud of developing the first Code of Ethics for election workers, he sees no conflict of interest or breach of ethics<5> in accepting donations from manufacturers at the same time as he plays a crucial role in training election workers and certifying voting equipment. Lewis regularly promotes the interests of the electronic voting machine industry:

Soon after the 2000 election, his Failures of Law article placed 95% of the problems on weaknesses in the law rather than on failures of election technology or election administration. To this date, he has not publicly expressed concern about DREs that recurrently failed after certification under his oversight.

In response to computer scientists and security experts who are nearly unanimous in warning of the security dangers of DREs that do not include a voter verification feature, Lewis issued an Election Center Letter that dismisses the concerns of highly educated and respected who scare voters and public officials with claims that the voting equipment and/or its software can be manipulated to change the outcome of an election. David Dill, Stanford University Professor of Computer Science and founder of VerifiedVoting, says this letter demonstrates profound disturbing complacency and a serious lack of understanding of computer security and directs our attention to a the point-by-point rebuttal by David Jefferson, a senior computer scientist and electronic voting expert at http://verify.stanford.edu/EVOTE/NEWSLETTERS/v1n1.html .

The Election Center Letter only defends costly DREs and pays no attention to other current voting systems, such as the optically scanned paper ballots that many citizens advocate because they are more reliable.

Lewiss speeches and writings aim to encourage faith in the process of American elections <6> in a way that encourages unquestioning trust in the voting machine industry. Could that be because his organization includes as members and receives substantial funds from "suppliers of election products and services"?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Still around and testifying July 07
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 03:56 PM by seemslikeadream
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I just want to know
WHO IS THIS GUY?
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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. He's very mysterious, not much to find but found this
1966-1980
According to a short biography in The Report of the National Symposium on Presidential Selection <4>, during this period, R. Doug Lewis:


"managed campaigns for Congress, U.S. Senate, governor, and the U.S. presidency"
"served as Executive Director of the Democratic Party in Kansas and Texas"
"worked as Regional Political Director in the DNC"
"served as Assistant to the President at the White House"
"managed political affairs for former Texas Governor John Connally"

However, this account appears to either misrepresent, or provide incomplete information about, key elements of Lewis's CV during this period:

1973-1974: Executive secretary of the Kansas Republican party, according to articles in The Great Bend Tribune. This appears to contradict the biographical details given above.<5><6><7>

1976: Executive director of the Texas Republican Party.<8> Again, this appears to completely contradict the biography given by the National Symposium on Presidential Selection.<9>

1976: Texas Chairman for President Gerald Ford's unsuccessful reelection campaign.<10><11>

1977: Finance director of the Texas Republican Party.<12>
After 1980

1980-1986: This period is noteworthy as Lewis appears to have disappeared entirely from public life. There is no mention of him in either the Nexis archive or the Google News archive.

1986 - June 1993: Lewis ran a Texas used-computers business called Micro Trade Mart, Inc. (according to e-voting activist Bev Harris) <13>

1994: Lewis was appointed to his position at the Election Center <14>.
Other Accomplishments Lewis, "the director of a nonprofit organization of election officials", served as one of three membersalong with State Auditor Marion Higa and Penelope Bonsall of the Federal Election Commissionof the 1998 Election Oversight Committee for the recount of the general election in Hawaii. <15>

According to a bio for Lewis published by the Center for Governmental Studies, University of Virginia Center for Government Studies, in regards to the 2001 "Presidential Selection: A Guide to Reform":

"Among his other accomplishments are the development of the first Code of Ethics for voter registrars and elections administrators, the establishment of the Joint Elections Officials Liaison committee (JEOLC), the National Association of State Election Directors (NASED), the National Association of County Recorders, elections officials, and Clerks (NACRC), the International Association of Clerks, Recorders, Election Officials, and Treasurers (IACREOT), and the International Institute of Municipal Clerks (IIMC). Lewis also established the National Postal Task Force, the National Task Force on Voting Accessibility, and the National Elections Reform Task Force to study and propose solutions to the problems of the 2000 Presidential election.
"Lewis serves as the director of the Voting Systems Program for NASED, where he is responsible for managing the qualifications, testing, and approval of voting equipment in America through independent test authorities, and sits as member of the national Voting Systems Board to develop and update the Federal Voting Systems Standards, and serves as a member of California's Internet Voting Advisory Committee."
In October 2002, Lewis was executive director of the National Association of Secretaries of State's election center. <16>

On September 9, 2003, Lewis, identified as executive director of CERA (Certified Elections Registration Administrator), gave testimony for U.S. Senate Hearings On Disasters and Special Elections, Senate Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on Constitution. <17>

A bio attached to a 2005 article written by Lewis identifies him as "R. Doug Lewis, CERA".
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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Info on Micro Trade
Company Information:

MICRO TRADE MART INC
PO BOX 219153
HOUSTON, TX 77218-9153

Status: NOT IN GOOD STANDING

Registered Agent: JERRY MCGONIGAL, 450 GEARS, 6TH FLOOR, HOUSTON, TX 77067
Registered Agent Resignation Date:
State of Incorporation: TX
File Number: 0101878000
Charter/COA Date: December 1, 1986
Charter/COA Type: Charter
Taxpayer Number: 30010124714
DIRECTOR: R DOUG LEWIS, PO BOX 219153, HOUSTON , TX 77218


SOURCE: http://ecpa.cpa.state.tx.us/coa/servlet/cpa.app.coa.Coa...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. When they pushed HAVA thru, I knew.
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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Lynn Landes article
Voting Machine Fiasco: SAIC, VoteHere and Diebold

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Landes_SAIC-Vot...


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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. About SAIC
SAIC has grown from $243,000 to nearly $6 billion in revenue since 1970. Two-thirds of its work comes from the federal government, and 14,000 of its 40,000 employees work in the Washington, D.C., area.

Any company so intertwined with security agencies can seem spooky. A news brief in June announced that SAIC had rented space in Sterling, Va., for a unit called "Reconnaissance and Surveillance Operations," not further identified. A 1996 article in an Air Force journal spoofed the company as "VAIC" - Violence Applications International Corporation - and an old joke hints at one of the company's biggest customers by asking: What is SAIC backward?

SAIC's record is not perfect: Iraqis and international organizations have accused SAIC of bungling a Pentagon contract to set up new Iraqi media, and the Maryland voting machine contract has been clouded by allegations of a conflict of interest.

But an overall reputation for competence and expertise has won for SAIC such key jobs as designing the federal instant background-check system for gun buyers and putting together the security system for the Salt Lake City Olympics.

SAIC was built on two principles Beyster believed would encourage worker loyalty and enterprise: All stock is held by employees, and operations are extraordinarily decentralized.

"It's in one-person offices and 500-person offices," says Steve Rizzi, 40, a corporate vice president and 20-year employee who works in Annapolis. "What the company's really all about is the inspiration of individual entrepreneurs."

In Annapolis, Rizzi says, SAIC people are in three completely separate offices - Rizzi's 100-person information technology shop; EPA's Chesapeake Bay Program office; and a maritime operation that designs yachts for the America's Cup.

What draws sharp people to SAIC, Rizzi says, is "the freedom to build the business you want to build. ... The company is extremely opportunistic."

SAIC's opportunities have been expanded by the war on terrorism. The company trained U.S. Special Forces troops to hunt for biological weapons in Afghanistan and Iraq - a task for which it employed Dr. Steven J. Hatfill, the former Army biowarfare expert who has been a focus of the FBI's anthrax investigation. It developed a gamma-ray imaging system that can see through 6 inches of steel to find contraband in cargo entering the United States. It wrote data-mining software that hunts through masses of text, such as NSA's voluminous intercepts, for word patterns that might reveal a planned terrorist attack.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Check out the book, "Legacy of Ashes" by Weiner...
It will give you a very eye opening account of the history of the CIA. It's based on documents recently released via the FOIA.

The very last chapter is chilling. It's worth the entire read just to get to that last one.

The CIA is a facade of what it once was, which actually really wasn't much, but under morons* (actually chaney and rumsfeld) direction, it was essentially dissolved and folded into the pentagon. After which, it basically didn't have any more power and as a result some of the best agents left to the private sector.

And like everything else with the colossal failure=, most of our intel is farmed out to private companies.

This is why cofer black is now part of blackwater. he was a big wheel in the CIA, but when that got "down sized" he farmed himself out to the highest bidder.

This is why blackwater now has got into the intel biz. I think it's called TotalIntel or something like that.

smoke and mirrors boys and girls, smoke and mirrors.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's all good
100%.

Read it and weep.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

John Hancock

New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts:
John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut:
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York:
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey:
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware:
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland:
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia:
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina:
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia:
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton
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KewlKat Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. More Robert Gates scandals
Some of the most generous contributors to Republican campaigns are also some of the largest investors in ES&S, Sequoia, and Diebold. Most notable of these are government defense contractors Northrup-Grumman, Lockheed-Martin, Electronic Data Systems (EDS) and Accenture

Gates is also on the board of election software company VoteHere:

Former President, Chief Operating Officer, and Vice Chairman of SAIC is Admiral Bill Owens, who is now Chairman of the Board for VoteHere. Owens also served as Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and was a senior military assistant to Secretaries of Defense Frank Carlucci and Dick Cheney...

Another former SAIC board member, also on the board of VoteHere, is ex-CIA director Robert Gates, a veteran of the Iran/Contra scandal.

VoteHere is already benefiting from the Diebold debacle, as it will be partnering with Sequoia Voting Systems...



READ THE OTHERS AT THE SOURCE: http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/11/robert-gates-s...
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. K&R and bookmarked...

these individuals and corporations have no business messing with the mechanics of our democracy.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
40. October surprise
Edited on Thu Nov-29-07 08:57 AM by formercia
Gates went along with Poppy on the trip to negotiate with the Iranians over the hostages. He has been very well connected for a long time.



In a secret 1993 report to the U.S. Congress, the Russian government claimed that its intelligence files listed Gates as participating in hostage negotiations with Iranian officials in Paris in October 1980 behind President Jimmy Carters back.
At the time, Iran was holding 52 American hostages and Carter was desperately trying to secure their release before the November 1980 elections, what became known as the October Surprise case.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/111406.html

Lots more good info on Gates here.
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sss1977 Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. Thanks for the excerpt
I might order the book and check it out for myself.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
32. Yep. Pentagon wants to dominate/control information. Mass psyops.
I don't doubt for a second that thousands are employed to engage in message manipulation.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. US LIES: Journalist Quit Iraqi Media Project = $96M Propaganda Project
US LIES: Journalist Quit Iraqi Media Project = $96M Propaganda Project
FROM: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Before you believe ANYTHING AT ALL in the way of Iraq news, read "Assault on Reason" and these:
INSTALLING DEMOCRACY NOW! USG-seized IRAQ media run by defense contractor.

Taxpayer $millions$ buying LIES = Pentagon aimed to control Iraqi media during war
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

======================
Wednesday, January 14th, 2004
U.S. Journalist Quits Pentagon Iraqi Media Project Calling it U.S. Propaganda
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/14/155

Listen LINK

We talk to a longtime TV producer about the massive problems he saw in the new U.S.-funded Iraqi Media Network, which he said became an "irrelevant mouthpiece for Coalition Provisional Authority propaganda, managed news and mediocre programs." The U.S. has awarded a $96 million contract to a U.S. producer of communications equipment, Harris Corp., to create a U.S.-funded national media network in Iraq.

According to the head of Harris Corp, the Iraqi Media Network will have 30 TV and radio transmitters, three broadcast studios, and 12 bureaus around Iraq.

After U.S.-led troops ousted Saddam Hussein's regime in April, the state-run broadcasters were seized. Since then, they have been run by a U.S. defense contractor, Science Applications International Corporation. .........

TRANSCRIPT w/ Amy Goodman ........ longtime TV producer, Don North, about the problems he saw ...

==========================
Your tax $$$ purchased media outlets in Iraq, and bought reporters too -

We have to ask,
"To what extent is this happening today and everywhere?"
"To what extent is this happening with other issues too?"

I have been told by major news announcers, "We just read it."
And, worse still, they do not even know who writes it for them!

We have to ask,
"To what extent is news just propaganda and BUSH LIES?"

==========================
Pentagon pays Iraqi papers to print its 'good news' stories
Jamie Wilson in Washington
Thursday December 1, 2005 - The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1654661,00....

....MORE .... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. "an anonymous source believed to be within the US intelligence community"
That some mighty fine reporting there, Lou.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
37. .
:hi:
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. Bookmarked!
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
39. Kick
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
41. Help, everyone; let's think about this -- seriously.
Edited on Thu Nov-29-07 11:18 AM by snot
First, before finding this post, I received the following e-mail about it:

"Supporter

"COVERT AGENT SPEAKS OUT - Art of Mental Warfare Exclusive
This statement, from an anonymous source within the US intelligence community, exposes covert activities in Iraq, Northern Africa, the US elections and news media psychological operations, also includes a political strategy to restore democracy in the US.
http://artofmentalwarfare.com/pog/covert-agent-speaks-o... /

"Please let me know what you think of it.

"David"
__________

I don't recall ever visiting this site and certainly have not knowingly given any other "support." And I take it not everyone here got this e-mail. So first, how did this guy compile his addressees for his e-mails?

Second, if he were for real, how could he possibly expect to get away with publishing this on the internet and not be offed? He says he's one of few who have managed to extricate at all -- but the revelations he's trying to sell go way beyond just escaping the job.

I'm not just suggesting he might not really be a covert agent. I'm also wondering about another possibility: that "he" might be part of a covert operation against us.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Some people take risks to tell the truth
I've been attacked many times for speaking out.

Death laughs at us all. All we can do is laugh back.

What he says is true. Spread the word.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
43. Sorry. This is meaningless.
"This message comes from an anonymous source believed to be within the US intelligence community. Some of the statements cannot be verified for authenticity..."

No point in frothing at the mouth over an internet post with absolutely no corroboration or fact checking.

For all we know it's a college writing assignment. Or some schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur.

YAWN.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
44. K&R! Thanks for posting this...n/t
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
45. WHAT STANDS OUT: " a thousand covert operatives spread throughout the news media"
Well, we have a list of the media, and you do the math in percentage terms. This is almost like everyone except Helen, Bill, and Keith!

Easier than the math, just ask, "Who wrote this script." From the article:

"I would estimate, with cable news and the Internet now, that there are well over a thousand covert operatives spread throughout the news media. They have a firm grip on television, newspapers, wire services, radio and magazines. However, with the Internet - thats their weak spot - its too decentralized...."
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. It's very true
I know a former CIA NOC who used to have her own TV talk show in CT. Her job was to keep the audience pointed in the right direction.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
47. I wonder how many people are employed across the country to spy on citizens.
n/t
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
48. Good link
thanks Amy
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
50. Sounds all to familiar to "Confessions of an economic hit-man"
Edited on Thu Nov-29-07 11:50 PM by AX10
I fully expect Robert Gates to be undermining our country.
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