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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:08 PM
Original message
CIA Venezuela Destabilization Memo Surfaces

http://counterpunch.com /


On November 26, 2007 the Venezuelan government broadcast and circulated a confidential memo from the US embassy to the CIA which is devastatingly revealing of US clandestine operations and which will influence the referendum this Sunday, December 2, 2007.

The memo sent by an embassy official, Michael Middleton Steere, was addressed to the Director of Central Intelligence, Michael Hayden. The memo was entitled 'Advancing to the Last Phase of Operation Pincer' and updates the activity by a CIA unit with the acronym 'HUMINT' (Human Intelligence) which is engaged in clandestine action to destabilize the forth-coming referendum and coordinate the civil military overthrow of the elected Chavez government. The Embassy-CIA's polls concede that 57 per cent of the voters approved of the constitutional amendments proposed by Chavez but also predicted a 60 per cent abstention.

The US operatives emphasized their capacity to recruit former Chavez supporters among the social democrats (PODEMOS) and the former Minister of Defense Baduel, claiming to have reduced the 'yes' vote by 6 per cent from its original margin. Nevertheless the Embassy operatives concede that they have reached their ceiling, recognizing they cannot defeat the amendments via the electoral route.

The memo then recommends that Operation Pincer (OP) be operationalized. OP involves a two-pronged strategy of impeding the referendum, rejecting the outcome at the same time as calling for a 'no' vote. The run up to the referendum includes running phony polls, attacking electoral officials and running propaganda through the private media accusing the government of fraud and calling for a 'no' vote. Contradictions, the report emphasizes, are of no matter.
-snip-
-----------------------------


read on, learn about the neo cons criminal black ops
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Where is the document?
I want to read this for myself.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Yes, me too - Someone saying "I have a document" just doesn't do it for me
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 05:00 PM by slackmaster
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #26
51. Don't suppose "Smoking Gun" would have this.
Just too much like what the Bush admin would do to jinn up some fear.

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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #51
63. If the reports are to be believed...
...then the Venezuelan government is going to release the actual document "for authentication." I wonder what they're waiting for.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #63
73. They're probably still working on translating it into Spanish then back into English
:hide:
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. no document creates no link
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Typical isn't it? And all the anti-Chavez people will still swear that
he's a dictator and the people are the ones who want to topple his government.

This country is nothing more (or less) than a menace to the rest of the earth.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I would like to see a bit more evidence...
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 12:17 PM by yibbehobba
...than Counterpunch quoting the Venezuelan government quoting the document. It wouldn't surprise me if it were true. It also wouldn't surprise me if it were complete bullshit, because the timing and content (if Counterpunch's third-hand account is to be believed) are, shall we say, extremely convenient.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. The only convenience we have here is the fact that the US
government has ALWAYS had agents conveniently stationed in the area to destabilize ANY government that doesn't favor the wealthy over the people.

Just like here.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'm not arguing that.
I'm just saying that it's curious that only counterpunch is carrying this story. As far as I can tell, all of the usual pro-Chavez media outlets haven't mentioned this at all, and it's supposed to have happened two days ago.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. What are the "pro-Chavez" outlets, aside from the Cuban paper?
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Bingo
I need no proof and history is on my side.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. You've of course never needed any evidence to announce
your determination that Chavez is a dictator commiting horrible crimes against Venezuela.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
56. Find one post where I've ever called him a dictator...
Really. Megalomaniac? Sure. But not a dictator.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
52. I'd like it better if it weren't Counterpunch. How about Venezelan Analysis?
I think I'd trust them a bit more.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. That's what I mean.
I looked for it there and saw nothing. I assumed if it was legit it would be all over their front page.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. How well did you look?
CIA Operation "Pliers" Uncovered in Venezuela
November 28th 2007, by Eva Golinger
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2914


http://www.chavezcode.com/2007/11/operation-pliers.html
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Yeah, I see that between then & now it's gone all over the place. n/t
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. I trust Eva Golinger to put up the facts fairly fast...
I've taken to checking her blog before any other source, since the media here won't even cover much of what happens down there.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Our aversion to...
socialism in Central and South America has resulted in some of the bloodiest, most vile crimes against humanity imaginable.

It disgusts me to no end.

And it further disgusts me that we are still pulling that same old shit today. :mad:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. It's unreal to predict it and watch it unfold.
It seems to me that the Chavez government was somewhat more prepared this time.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
96. Bush probably figured: "well, it got Kissinger the Nobel Peace Prize, so why wouldn't I take a shot?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
53. Why do you label those who might have criticism "anti"?
Rather like accusing people of "hating America" if they criticize Bush.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
58. Counterpunch has a reliability track record
about as illustrious as Worldnut daily. This could very well be true, but it's foolish to believe anything from Counterpunch without verification from other sources.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #58
65. It's all over the place now.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hAyrGfE-ZWy2y7T2UdYk...

They have yet to release the document.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #58
69. Counterpunch is one of the few sources of well-reasoned, fact-based opinion and
reporting on the Israel/Palestine situation. It is by no means nutty. It also covers many other important issues, and is often the first to provide intelligent analysis of issues and events that are black-holed or entirely twisted toward war and fascism by our corporate news monopolies.

I sometimes get aggravated with CounterPunch in the same way I get aggravated with Democracy Now. Brilliant analysis, invaluable source of information. No solutions. They tend to view the American people as "sheeple" (stupid, uncaring, easily led), which I think is untrue, and, in any case, is without strategic and practical value, as to turning things around. In my view, the American people have been victims of a very specially designed disinformation/propaganda effort, which has not been designed to convince them of anything--and, on the war, for instance, has failed to do so from the beginning (56% of Americans--a significant majority--opposed to the war from the beginning, Feb. '03, now grown to a whopping 70%), but has had the purpose of demoralizing, disempowering and, above all, disenfranchising the American people, so that we give up trying to change our government and its policies. And key to understanding what has happened is the fast-tracking (2002-2004) of electronic voting machines all over the country, run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with the complicity of our Democratic Party leadership. The bill that did this--the "Help America Vote Act"--was passed (by the Anthrax Congress) in the same month as the Iraq War Resolution (Oct. 2002), and is closely related to it. The IWR guaranteed unjust war; HAVA provided the means to shove this unjust war down the throats of the American people.

Neither Counterpunch nor Democracy Now has paid sufficient attention to the DISENFRANCHISEMENT of the American people. Other than this blind spot of theirs--a blind spot that has plagued the Left in the U.S. since the 1960s (I mean, what do they want--violent revolution? HOW do you empower the people? HOW do you run a democracy? WHAT, strategically, should be done to make it WORK RIGHT?)--I find these news/opinion sources, on the whole, to be among the most valuable ever created, and I applaud their work.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Imperialist nations will do all they can to destabilize up and coming socialist countries
Just ask Kissinger.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. I thought Bush said he wanted to spread democracy.
I sure hope nobody believed him.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here's a Spanish language version of the memo:

This is apparently a transcript of the TV program La Hojilla, where the memo was read:

http://barcelona.indymedia.org/newswire/display/326386/...
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Here's an English-language translation of the memo (Babblefish)
(Sorry that this has lost its formatting, but the content is clear enough.)

(Note: HUMINT is actually a DIA intelligence unit, not CIA.)


November 20,2007 CONFIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM Of: Michael Middleton Steere, U.S. Embassy He stops: Michael Hayden, Director Central Agency of Intelligence. Subject: Advance of the Final stage of the Operation Pliers Taking in consideration the previous documentary advances around the Operation Pliers that coordinate Humint in Venezuela according to the director 3623-g-0217, I fulfill in informing to him for the consequent aims, of the present status of this operation, which enters its final stage according to the considered thing. In summarized form, we presented/displayed the diverse scenes emphasized in the memoradum previous, which in the last weeks acquires new developments: 1) Electoral Scene. As I emphasized it in the preceding report, the tendencies of intentions of vote stay. Until now the different made measurements, including ours, they give him to IF an advantage between 10 and 13 points (57 % IF, 44% non).Tal percentage estimation occur within the framework of an abstention that goes up to around 60% of the enrolled voters. Our analyses, observe that this tendency is irreversible in the short term, that is to say, in next the fifteen (15) days cannot be modified those percentage of a significant way. On the other hand, the advertising campaign promoted by the Plan and the desertions of the governmental rows (We can Baduel, for example) has managed to clear to Chvez 6 points to him in their position of initial starting, as it had not happened in other campaigns, where has started off with an advantage between 15 and 20 % Nevertheless, a freezing of the waited for impact can be hoped, since such tendencies touched floor. In such sense, this office recommends to execute predicted in the Plan for the Operation the Pliers in the case of consolidating in the next days this scene. As it is of his knowledge we have proposed a fan of answers, between which they are: To prevent the referendum or to not know its results even though is called to vote by NO. In terms of tactical orientation these hinges can give the impression of being contradictory, but for the conjunctural political moment its combination is necessary. In the days that are we can continue fortifying the activities that aim to prevent the referendum and at the same time to prepare the conditions to not know the results of the same one. In the political preparation of the nonrecognition of the results of the referendum, the creation has been important from the opinion matrix on a safe triumph of NOT and in such sense we will continue working with the encuestadoras that we have contracted. At the same time which we maintain one maintained campaign by NO, one comes working in the critic to the CNE and its connection with a series of traps, which generates in the public opinion the fraud sensation. In that sense we have come insisting on the topics referred the inconsistency from the permanent electoral registry, where we contacted with an equipment of experts of the universities, that by its academic prestige makes a manipulation credible of the data on the part of the CNE, equal happens on the doubts on the red and the behavior of the voting machines. In this context, to flood the voting act day 2 of December is consustancial with the premise of VOTES and QUEDATE to be able to produce an implosion that allows us to execute the director already established in the Operation Pliers. Upon this last aspect we have agreed with allied forces to begin to afternoon give information in the first hours of of the Domingo the 2 of December, exploding preliminary soundings in the voting tables. The mounted operations requires of a coordination with mass media at international level, according to the pautado thing. Since we have explained in another document, to handle itself in these two scene does not stop being politically dangerous, by the fracture that exists in the competing groups. In spite of our effort to unite to all the sectors, there are opinions found around some aspects of our Plan. We have made contacts and meetings with the First Justice and New Time and apparently are not going to subscribe our strategy. All the opposite of the National Commando of the Resistance and Democratic Action, with those who we come working the two options. Here it is necessary to emphasize the paper that come carrying out Esclusa Rock and Guyon Cellis according to the previous coordinations made by Richard Nazario, with respect to scattering in all the national territory small centers of protests, that generate an ungovernability climate, allowing to culminate in the general rise of a substantial part of the population. Nevertheless, I consider advisable that this operational nexus canalizes the office to avoid complications to him to the embassy 2) the immediate tasks of the final stage The combination of the previous clamps or hinges (to prevent the referendum, to denounce the fraud and to take the street)para a victorious closing from our operation, demand of a sharp diplomatic effort to isolate still more to Chvez in the international land, to deal with to obtain the unit of the opposition and to look for the alliance of the non-participants and those that vote by NO, to increase the pressure of street in the previous days to the 2 December, to maintain with firmness the propaganda against the regime, to execute the military actions of support to the mobilizations and propagandistic takings, to culminate operational preparations of our forces quartered in bordering Base. The support of the originating external equipment of the green and blue country, this coordinated, blue the naval operation of this predicted one and, the borders with green in the certain points this free one. We immediately reviewed to the made activities to fulfill such goals: A) As far as the mobilizations of street, as it contemplates the Plan to it, we have managed to persuade to important tie student sectors to the deprived educative institutions so that they are gotten up organic to our initiatives to leave Chvez. In the third week of November an agreement was obtained frame with you lead them emergent that has welcomed our ideario of democracy and freedom, several meetings of work we have made, under the coordination of Rudolph directors Youngest child Scharikker Podolski of the Simn University Bolivar and Ugalde of Beautiful the Catholic University Andrs. These authorities have constituted an equipment where groups of professors participate between whom they honor Oropeza Angel and his team of the postgraduate of Political Sciences. The meetings they have attended student leaders of several universities: Yon Goicochea of the Catholic University Beautiful Andrs (UCAB), Juan To Mejas of the Simn University Bolivar (USB), Douglas Districts of the Metropolitan University, Ronel Gaglio of the University Mounts vila, Gabriel Rooster of the University Santa Maria. Between these leaders there is consensus in general terms, but with some differences as far as the concrete actions for the next days. Red Flag has resulltado flattering the position assumed by student leaders of a denominated group, formerly enemy jury of the interests ours in the country. His Ricardo leader Sanchez, of the Central University of Venezuela, was one of which support our proposal of direct actions of street against the institutions: CNE, Supreme Court of Justice and the Palace of Miraflores. Anyway, unit has to continue working of action of these groups, since there is danger of fracture under the operational premise of the nonviolence and exigencies that are contemplated in the Plan, being part of the same contradictory reality that we evaluated in the electoral scene, since in these student groups they influence so much the National Commando of the Resistance as the First Justice and in their sine the diverse partisan positions are expressed. B) As you know, one of the objectives of the Operation Pliers is to control a territorial or institutional strip, with massive support of citizen displeasures, in a lapse contemplated between 72 and 120 hours, time considered like minimum lapse to detonate the ascending phase of the actions anticipated, where the military uprising is contemplated. In this they are not it jeopardize all the sectors, reason why we demanded a greater activity of the dedicated equipment to construct our alliances. Particular importance has the contacts and meetings with the officials of the diverse components, particularly of the National Guard. Although the connection that previously the central office sent made its task, the coordination with this key force has not been easy by the dispersion of its commandos. In this scope, as already he is found out by the sent message of emergency, one of the equipment coordinated by our operative connection was detected and seized part of the armament, which has generated some difficulties of security. Before the dangers of political use of the well-known facts publicly, it is necessary to prepare alibis and contrapropaganda that the demoralizing impact of some imputations avoids that of insurance the government will do, dice to the signs found in some cellular ones and lapto seized. C) In the contemplated sphere of the propaganda and psychological operations in the Plan in course, is where we have harvested the greater successes, to such an extent than in the last weeks we have imposed our agenda and dominated the advertising scene. The contributions of the SIP and the international agencies have been key. Special recognition deserves Youngest child Gregg ZIF, AAPP of the Embassy, by this work. And the equipment organized by Ravell comes rendering its fruits and requires in this last phase greater contributions our. In this last aspect I must inform to him that of $8 million that were transferred almost everything they have been spent in propaganda, publicity and contributions to some of the facade organizations. In this last case, we have had difficulties with the Development INC. Alternative, since enemy intelligence has located our connection with Mr. Gerson Patete and have monitoreada the current account of the Mercantile Bank, Not 0105-0026-59-102636243-1. He is urgent not to continue making transference that account and to establish another channel for the financing contemplated in this phase of the Operation Pliers. http://www.aporrea.org/tiburon/n105390.html MS INFO: - Executive calls to be alert after murder when younger worker of Petrocasa http://radiomundial.com.ve/yvke/noticia.php?1407 - Fedecmaras Bolivar is defined of national Fedecmaras "because it is carrying out one second edition of the ' Carmonaz". http://radiomundial.com.ve/yvke/noticia.php?1408 - Government will clear companies to Fedecmaras if they try to reedit 2002 facts http://radiomundial.com.ve/yvke/noticia.php?1409 - the Communist Party of Venezuela calls to the Venezuelan town and the towns of the world to organize the defense of the Bolivariana Revolution http://www.aporrea.org/tiburon/n105376.html Mira tamb: http://www.aporrea.org http://radiomundial.com.ve

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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Another source seems to confirm portions of this translation:
With respect to Venezuela's national referendum next Sunday, December 2nd


First, from the Babblefish translation provided by levymg:

English translation SECRET MEMO:

1) Electoral Scene. As I emphasized it in the preceding report, the tendencies of intentions of vote stay. Until now the different made measurements, including ours, they give him to IF an advantage between 10 and 13 points (57 % IF, 44% non).Tal percentage estimation occur within the framework of an abstention that goes up to around 60% of the enrolled voters. Our analyses, observe that this tendency is irreversible in the short term, that is to say, in next the fifteen (15) days cannot be modified those percentage of a significant way.



Venezuela Analysis:

In a speech in the western state of Zulia on Sunday, the Venezuelan president called on his supporters to watch out for any "perverse plan" of the opposition after the likely victory of the constitutional reform next Sunday. Chavez warned that sectors of the political opposition are trying to use preliminary surveys to put the victory of the reform in doubt, and to later claim fraud when the official results do not coincide with the polls.

Chavez stated that if the reform is approved in the national referendum, the opposition will claim that the elections were fraudulent and call people into the streets to generate violence and to destabilize the country.

"They try to make Venezuelans and the world have doubts, repeating surveys and manipulated numbers, so that when we win on Sunday, as I am sure we will, then they can say that there was fraud, that the election was stolen, and they will come out into the streets," he said.

The president reminded supporters that sectors of the opposition have used this strategy to manipulate public opinion before, using false survey numbers to create the image of fraudulent elections. He called on the country to be prepared for any kind of manipulation.



English translation SECRET MEMO:

In such sense, this office recommends to execute predicted in the Plan for the Operation the Pliers in the case of consolidating in the next days this scene. As it is of his knowledge we have proposed a fan of answers, between which they are: To prevent the referendum or to not know its results even though is called to vote by NO. In terms of tactical orientation these hinges can give the impression of being contradictory, but for the conjunctural political moment its combination is necessary. In the days that are we can continue fortifying the activities that aim to prevent the referendum and at the same time to prepare the conditions to not know the results of the same one.




Venezuela Analysis:

Sectors from the Venezuelan opposition have called on their supporters to take to the streets if they lose the national referendum on Sunday due to fraud. The opposition group Comando Nacional de la Resistencia (CNR) called for a "March of no return" on the presidential palace this week, a route that hasn't been used by the opposition since the 2002 coup which resulted in dozens killed and temporarily overthrew the Chavez government. The march was called for this Monday November 26th, but was then postponed until after the referendum on December 2nd.

"The 'march of no return' will not be Monday the 26th, and probably not Tuesday the 27th, but be sure that it will happen if they commit the fraud that they have organized for December 2nd," said CNR member Hermann Escarr.

Escarr explained that the 'March of no return' will be an organized event of many simultaneous marches around the country that could be of varying duration and intensity. He promised that the opposition would march on the presidential palace in Caracas in the case of fraud in the referendum, and that they would engage in active resistance in the streets.



English translation SECRET MEMO:


In this context, to flood the voting act day 2 of December is consustancial with the premise of VOTES and QUEDATE to be able to produce an implosion that allows us to execute the director already established in the Operation Pliers. Upon this last aspect we have agreed with allied forces to begin to afternoon give information in the first hours of of the Domingo the 2 of December, exploding preliminary soundings in the voting tables. The mounted operations requires of a coordination with mass media at international level, according to the pautado thing. Since we have explained in another document, to handle itself in these two scene does not stop being politically dangerous, by the fracture that exists in the competing groups.



Venezuela Analysis:

President Chavez also said on Sunday that he had new evidence of plans to assassinate him. In a televised interview with a group of journalists Sunday night, the Venezuelan president explained that during a recent campaign event the light of a laser pointer was seen shining on his body and head.

Chavez explained that after experts analyzed video of the event, they observed that the light moved up to his head and remained there for some time despite constant movement on the part of Chavez. For this reason, the analysts concluded that it was the work of an expert, possibly using a sniper rifle with a laser sight.

The president also stated that a Venezuelan embassy in Central America was recently informed of a plan to assassinate Chavez before the end of the year and that there is also evidence linking the Cuban terrorist Luis Posada Carriles to assassination plans.




For reference:

LAT: A Terrorist Walks (Luis Posada Carriles)



English translation SECRET MEMO:

B) As you know, one of the objectives of the Operation Pliers is to control a territorial or institutional strip, with massive support of citizen displeasures, in a lapse contemplated between 72 and 120 hours, time considered like minimum lapse to detonate the ascending phase of the actions anticipated, where the military uprising is contemplated.

.....

2) the immediate tasks of the final stage The combination of the previous clamps or hinges (to prevent the referendum, to denounce the fraud and to take the street)para a victorious closing from our operation, demand of a sharp diplomatic effort to isolate still more to Chvez in the international land, to deal with to obtain the unit of the opposition and to look for the alliance of the non-participants and those that vote by NO, to increase the pressure of street in the previous days to the 2 December, to maintain with firmness the propaganda against the regime, to execute the military actions of support to the mobilizations and propagandistic takings, to culminate operational preparations of our forces quartered in bordering Base.

.....

Particular importance has the contacts and meetings with the officials of the diverse components, particularly of the National Guard. Although the connection that previously the central office sent made its task, the coordination with this key force has not been easy by the dispersion of its commandos. In this scope, as already he is found out by the sent message of emergency, one of the equipment coordinated by our operative connection was detected and seized part of the armament, which has generated some difficulties of security. Before the dangers of political use of the well-known facts publicly, it is necessary to prepare alibis and contrapropaganda that the demoralizing impact of some imputations avoids that of insurance the government will do, dice to the signs found in some cellular ones and lapto seized.

.....

Special recognition deserves Youngest child Gregg ZIF, AAPP of the Embassy, by this work. And the equipment organized by Ravell comes rendering its fruits and requires in this last phase greater contributions our. In this last aspect I must inform to him that of $8 million that were transferred almost everything they have been spent in propaganda, publicity and contributions to some of the facade organizations. In this last case, we have had difficulties with the Development INC. Alternative, since enemy intelligence has located our connection with Mr. Gerson Patete and have monitoreada the current account of the Mercantile Bank, Not 0105-0026-59-102636243-1. He is urgent not to continue making transference that account and to establish another channel for the financing contemplated in this phase of the Operation Pliers.






Something is, indeed, unfolding here. Stay vigilant, Venezuela.

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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
66. Why all this translation?
So we've now got a supposed English translation of a Spanish translation of an English memo. Where is the original fucking document?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #25
71. Thanks for highlighting these areas. Very helpful. It should be very interesting seeing what Bush's
State Department's spin is going to be.

Will they deny it altogether?

So far, we've had a "no comment," and an embassy official saying he's unfamiliar with the memo. Guess he was "out of the loop," like Bush's father.

What is contained in this material is absolutely HIDEOUS.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #71
77. It's even more hideous if you translate that into German then back into English
:rofl:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
75. I guess the Venezuelan government is still working on the English language original document
:eyes:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
74. Reminds me of a game people played in a Philip K. Dick novel
It was called "The Game"; sort of a variant on charades.

Someone would put a word, phrase, name, book title, etc. into an international language translating system, go through a few tranlations from one language to another, then back to the original language. The final output was the clue.

One clue was "Serious constricting path."

The correct answer was "Ernest Hemingway."

;-)
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
76. Here's another version I found
November 20,2007 CONFIDENTIAL MINUTES of: Michael Middleton Steere, United States message, which it stops: Michael Hayden, director Zentrale of intelligence. Topic: Progress of the locking stage the enterprise pliers, which consider the preceding documentary film progress around the enterprise pliers, which assigned to Humint in Venezuela in opinion of the director 3623-g-0217, I when informing to it for the consistent goals, the present status of this enterprise fulfill, which registers its locking stage according to the regarded thing. In summarized form we presented/displayed the different scenes emphasized in memoradum preceding, which acquires new developments in the last weeks: 1) choice scene. As I emphasized it in the preceding report, the tendencies remain of intentions of the voice. Up to now the different formed mass, including ours, they give it IF an advantage between 10 and 13 points (57 %, IF, 44% arise non).Tal to percentage estimation in the context of an abstention, which goes to around 60% of the written voters. Our analyses, observe that this tendency is at short notice irreversible, i.e., inside first the fifteen (15) can do days not changed those its percentage of an important way. On the other hand has the werbekampagne, those by the plan and leaving the government rows is promoted (we box Baduel, e.g..) to free area to Chvez 6 points to it in their position output beginning handled, since it does not know in other campaigns, in which with an advantage between 15 and 20 % started nevertheless, a freezing of the waited effect is hoped had happened, since such tendencies affected floor. In such direction this office is recommended to accomplish in the plan for the enterprise the pliers in the case by combining on the following days of this scene forecast. While it is from its knowledge, we suggested a fan of the answers, between which they are: The referendum prevent or its results do not know, although one designates, over to select by No.. In tactical determining position expressed these hinges can give the impression of the Seins incompatibly, but during the political moment relating to market conditions its combination is necessary. On the days, which are, we can continue strengthening those, activities, those, to prevent the referendum and on it at the same time aim at the conditions to prepare, in order not to know the results of the same. In the political preparation nonrecognition the results of the referendum, the creation of the opinion matrix on a safe triumph of importantly and in such direction was does not continue we working with encuestadoras that we locked contract. At the same time, which we maintained, one maintained campaign by No., comes one, working in the critic to the CNE and in its connection with a row traps, which produces the fraud feeling in the public opinion. In this direction, which we have come insisting on the topics, the inconsistency of the durable choice register referred, in which we associated on an equal footing with an equipment of the experts of the universities, which forms a handling by its academic prestige reliably from the data on the part of the CNE, happen on the doubts on the red and the behavior of the selecting machines. In this context the selecting act day 2 of December is to inundate with the condition of VOICES and of QUEDATE consustancial to produce in the situation zuSEIN, a implosion us permitted to accomplish the director who is already manufactured into the enterprise pliers. After this last aspect, which we ge$$$WESEN with allied forces in agreement are, to giving information in the first hours of the Domingo the 2 of December to begin and introductory soundings in selecting exploded, puts the afternoon. The appropriate enterprises requires from a Korrdination with mass means on international level, according to pautado the thing. Since we explained in another document, to handle in scene these two does not stop to be dangerously political by the break which exists in competing grouped. Despite our effort to combine to all sectors there are the opinions, which are found around some aspects of our plan. We formed contacts and meetings with the first justice and the new mark and will apparent not sign our strategy. That whole opposite of of the national command of the resistance and the democratic activity, with which, which we come, the two elections working on. Here is necessary, the paper, which for Esclusa to come, rock and Guyon Cellis produce according to the preceding Korrdinationen accomplishing, which are formed by Richard Nazario, regarding the Zerstreuen into all small the national territory of the protests, emphasize in the middle ungovernability the climate and generally ascent of a substantial part of the population may kulminieren. I nevertheless regard advisable that this functional connection the office canalizes, to prevent in order to avoid complications to it to the message 2) the immediate tasks of the locking stage the combination of the preceding clamping plates or the hinges (the referendum you quit the fraud and street)para a victorious reasoning of our enterprise to take demand of a sharp diplomatic effort to more to Chvez in the international country to locate to the agreement with still in order to look for the unit of the opposition too received and after the alliance of the Nichtteilnehmer and the of them, which select by No., in order to increase the pressure of the road the previous evenings to December 2, with firmness to maintain propaganda against the regime to accomplish the military activities of the support to the mobilizations and to propagandistic the money income around functional preparations of our forces to kulminieren quartered in setting in lower surface. The support of the developing external equipment of the green and blue country, this coordinated, blue, that the naval enterprise of this forecast and, the edges with green in the certain points this free. We repeated immediately too let activities such goals fulfill: A) Up to the mobilizations of the road, since them consider the plan to it, we handled to convince to the important latch plate class participant sectors to the robbed educative institutes so that they are organic risen to our initiatives, to leave to from of Chvez to. In the third week of November an agreement of reached frameworks with you was leads them been emergent, which welcomed ours ideario the democracy and the liberty, some meetings of the work, which we formed, under the Korrdination Rudolph directors of the youngest child Scharikker Podolski of the Simn University of Bolivar and Ugalde of beautiful the catholic University of Andrs. Participate between, these authorities one determined equipment, the groups of professors whom honour them Oropeza angel and its crew of the advanced political sciences. The meetings worried themselves it class participant leaders of some universities: Yon Goicochea of the catholic University of beautiful Andrs (UCAB), Juan to Mejas of the Simn University of Bolivar (USB), Douglas of districts of the metropolitan university, Ronel Gaglio of the university attaches vila, Gabriel cock of the University of Santa Maria. Between these leaders there is agreement generally spoken, but with some differences up to the concrete complaints on the following days. Red marking sign has resulltado to flatter to the position those by the class participant leaders of a designated group, in former times hostile jury of the interests ours in the country is accepted. His Ricardo leader Sanchez, which central university of Venezuela, from which support one our request of the direct activities of the road against the institutes was: CNE, highest Court of Justice and the palace of Miraflores. Anyway unit must function activity this groups to continue, since it danger break under functional a condition Gewaltlosigkeiten and requirements gives, which are considered in the plan and a part of the same incompatible reality to be, which we evaluated into the choice scene, since in these groups of students they affect as much the national command of the resistance as the first justice and in their sine, the different parteigaengerischen positions expressed. B) As you know, one of the objectives is the enterprise pliers, a territorial or institution strip, with substantial support of the Buergerverdruesse, in a mistake, which between 72 and 120 hours, which time is considered steering, which is regarded like minimum mistake, bringing the rising phase of the anticipated activities to the detonation where the military ascent is considered. They are not relevant it endanger all sectors, reason, why we required a larger activity of the engaged equipment, in order to design our alliances. Special meaning has the contacts and the meetings with the officials of the different components, particularly the national protection. Although the relationship, which manufactured before the sent head office its task, which was not simple Korrdination with this key person by the scatter of its commands. Within this range like already it by the sent announcement of the urgency is found out, one the equipment coordinated by our effective connection was determined and part of the armament seized, which produced some difficulties of security. Before the dangers of the political use of that far away admitted of facts publicly, it are necessary, in order to prepare, alibis and versus propaganda, which the demoralization effect of something writing up avoids those the insurance the government, do to cubes to the indications, which are found moved to any zellularen in and in lapto. C) In the considered range of propaganda and the psychological enterprises in the plan in the course, it is, where we harvested larger successes, to such an extent, when in the last weeks we our agenda imposed and controlled the announcing scene. The contributions of the SIP and the international agencies were keys. Special acknowledgment earns youngest child Gregg ZIF, AAPP of the message, by this work. And the equipment, which is organized by Ravell, comes, its fruits transferring and requires this last our phase in the larger contributions. In this last aspect I must inform that to him about $8 million, which were brought nearly everything, which they were spent in propaganda, to advertisement and contributions on some the front organizations. In this last case we had difficulties with the development Inc.. Alternative, since hostile intelligence our connection with Mr. Gerson Patete located and monitoreada the current account of the commercial bank has has, not 0105-0026-59-102636243-1. It is not Transference to form to manufacture to continue urgently, that explains and another guidance for the financing which is considered in this phase enterprise pliers http://www.aporrea.org/tiburon/n105390.html MS information: - main leader designates, in order after murder to be attentive if younger worker of Petrocasa http://radiomundial.com.ve/yvke/noticia.php?1407 - Fedecmaras Bolivar is defined by national Fedecmaras ", because it accomplishes a second expenditure of the ' Carmonaz" http://radiomundial.com.ve/yvke/noticia.php?1408 - government deletes companies to Fedecmaras, if it reedit 2002 to the facts http://radiomundial.com.ve/yvke/noticia.php?1409 - which try a communist party Venezuela calls to Venezuela niches the city and to the cities of the world to organize the defense of the Bolivariana revolution http://www.aporrea.org/tiburon/n105376.html Mira tamb: http://www.aporrea.org http://radiomundial.com.ve
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #76
80. Were you ever a fan of NewsRadio?
And the Super Karate Monkey Death Car episode?

http://www.evilzero.com/NewsRadio/Episodes/Ep57.htm
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #76
83. Didn't you notice "leveymg" already posted this at post #13, yesterday, at the beginning of the
thread?

Hope your posting it again will mean more people will see it.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. If only for a brief moment, I owned Judi Lynn
Edited on Thu Nov-29-07 01:58 PM by slackmaster
Which is not an easy thing to do.

The one I posted was made by taking the text from #13 and using Babelfish to translate it into German and back into English.

:rofl:

My point is that without seeing the original it's impossible to tell what the document really says, if indeed there is a document. If there is a document to examine, its authenticity can of course be called into question. I don't believe we're even to that stage yet.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. In the last hit piece, they trotted out an ex-wife. It's a blitz right now.
I can't even keep up with all the flying bs so thanks for posting this.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. I doubt they'll defeat the referendum. If the Venezuelans want it, they will get it.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 12:52 PM by Selatius
And no amount of belly-aching or whining from the US or from business interests is going to stop them.

The only way I could see the opposition defeating Chavez is if they launched a violent military coup to topple the government because there are more poor people than rich people voting.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm really afraid we're almost there. If the referendum passes
and I think it will, I'm very worried for Venezuela because those vultures and their corporate cronies aren't going away.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. Who is this "embassy official, Michael Middleton Steere"
For being an embassy official, he's rather nonexistent on Google outside this story. This smells a lot like Chavez doing his impression of Bush trotting out the Osama tapes before every election.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I don't know and I might agree with you except for this.
The hit pieces are coming out more than once a day now. Last week, I caught the NYTs, the LATs and the WaHo AND the Miami Herald repeating the same stuff that, when you ran it down, was cr@p.

Today, they trotted out an ex wife to criticize him. It's just too weird. And the Chavez government has nothing to gain from disruption where the multinationals have everything to gain. This is seriously some corporatists not wanting to let go of their power. I'm really scared for the people of Venezuela.

Also, go see Judi Lynn's threads about the arms caches, uniforms and cell phones found in at least four locations around Caracas in the last week.

This is serious as a heart attack and if I'm wrong, I'll buy you lunch. There is a very serious attempt on right now to destabilize Venezuela and we're likely funding it with our tax money.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Whilst not enamoured with him, I know what you mean
about hit pieces, and I don't doubt media and government being against him. So I'm not putting this sort of thing above them.

BUT that doesn't, to me, preclude Chavez or Chavez supporters from exploiting that and releasing such a document themselves. In fact it strikes me as a rather brilliant move, because it does go along with history.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. At this point, I wouldn't blame them.
But, I'm not seeing that. I'm not neutral but I try to be honest, fwiw.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
89. I'm no fan of Chavez but I wouldn't blame them either
It's like a big game with a lopsided power distribution and no real rules.
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dantyrant Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
50. Interesting...
Except that it would seem to work against their interests, would it not? If polling shows that the referendum was going to pass by an easy margin, why muddy up the waters and invite calls of illegitimacy?

My feeling is this is real. The tactics are consistent with the CIA's historical record, and there have been rumblings about this the past month or so. Stephen Lendman has an article written two weeks ago about the possibility of a coup d'tat posted at Global Research.

That's not to say that it's necessarily going to be implemented in precisely this way. It could just as easily be disinformation meant to be intercepted - we have no proof either way.
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nick303 Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
104. What do you mean trotted out? nt
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. Tin foil hat moment
Chaves is a graduate of the School of the Americas.

Using fake documents to emphasize a local threat is a long standing maneuver (see yellow cake)

So I will have my moment of doubt (due to the convenience of this document emerging, that you';d expect to be far more than just confidential. Sorry folks, knowing the playbook... I have to question this

That's not to say that the CIA is not capable of these games... it is just the timing...

Reminds me of... yellow cake uranium that made it to a certain State of the Union at a certain very CONCEEENIENT time
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Wait. Try this thought experiment.
There is a big referendum in a nation that our government views as of strategic importance because it is sitting on a huge pile of cheap oil. Our government has a long history of covert and overt intervention in the region and in this country. Defeating this referendum may be the last best chance our government has to control the situation in this country without military intervention. You are saying that there is a real possibility that there isn't a covert operation by our intelligence agencies in progress to effect a defeat of this referendum and/or act to immediately destabilize the country once the referendum passes?

There most certainly is such an operation in progress. This memo may, as you say, be an invention of the Venezuelan government, but that is more or less irrelevant. Like the infamous Rathergate memo, fake or not, the basic contents are accurate.

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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I can't disaagree with that, Warren. Whatever one may think of Chavez
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 04:58 PM by tom_paine
it changes nothing that the Bushies are arch-criminals and murderers of the Soul of the Old American Republic?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. All these fake documents have a shred of truth
Yes there are terrorists out there. Yes there is yellow cake out there. Yes, absolutely there is a CIA operation going on. Absolutely... the problem is that throughout history, whether you are taking of Chile under Pinochet (who also produced fake papers of the cells about to destroy the country... and the terrorists were real too), the first step is to elevate the threat and scare the people.

I am just pointing to the play book... and the timing is kind of funny...
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. "shred of truth"? - the basic outline has to be accurate!
That is the point. It isn't that there might be a 'shred of truth', it is that there is simply nothing incredulous at all about the contents.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Tell me how accurate were the cells of Stalinist Russia
how about Pinochet?

The Communist threat to Nazi Germany?

The franquist fear of Communists?

For god sakes, what about the Arditi fighting the labor organizers as terrorists?

No, they don't have to be accurate... that said in this case they probably are...

But as I said, through history... tell me how accurate were the yellow cake memos and how much were they swallowed by the US Population who wanted to personally go kill Sadam?

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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
68.  sitting on a huge pile of cheap oil.
Why do you suggest it is "cheap oil"? They are a memeber of OPEC and sell their oil at the OPEC price just as every other member does.. :shrug: I would think OPEC would raise holy hell if they tried to undercut the organization..
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #68
99. Cheap OIl is cheap to extract.
Demand drives what it costs to buy the oil from the cheap oil resource owner.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Chavez is a graduate of SOA? Got a link to support that?
Not that I would find it at all surprising. The Bushie Student comes back and outmaneuvers the Bushie Masters.

:hi: nadin.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Yes, and he has stopped all relationships with the SOA
after the attempted coup

here you go

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_10_28/ai...

It does not specifically say he graduated from the school, but given he was part of elite units... connect the damn dots
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Maybe those dots are connectable, but I'm sorry, it's not enough for me to accept that as anything
close to "fact".

Sorry, nadin, please don't take it personally. The last thing I need is an exchange of flames with someone I feel generally simpatico towards.

But I feel how I feel about this.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #37
47. that's fine
Edited on Thu Nov-29-07 01:00 AM by nadinbrzezinski
and if I found the data on the actual database of graduates? Somehow I suspect it is classified, but let me take a crack at it

I found partial lists, but nothing complete.

I also found that he was a member of a counterinsurgency battalion while an army officer, a JO... those are the people that go to the school.

So I would not be too surprised... and in this case the student is teaching the master.

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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #47
62. OK, I'll keep my eyes peeled now for further corroborating information
I certainly am not dismissing the possibility, and the fact that Chavez was a counterinsurgency officer is another stone in a "wall of proof".
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #62
116. There are two easy answers to the SOA question:
one....he has changed for the wiser/better since those days

two....infiltrating from within. he went to SOA to better get to know his enemy
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #116
120. Third easy answer. Almost all high-ranking officers in South America have.
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 12:36 PM by L. Coyote
The revolution in Peru offered a huge lesson to the oiligarchs about the military. In Peru, the military has their own education system, colleges to educate officers. This resulted in advancement to general rank for persons not from the ruling class, that is until the day they put the President on a plane to the USA in his pajamas and nationalized Standard Oil!

The lesson: If an oligarchy wishes to maintain control of a society, they should put their own children in charge of the military!
It seems the Venezuelan oiligarchy failed to notice that lesson in Peru. Chavez wasn't born with an oil well up his. :rofl:
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Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Its convenient because it is new
The Yellow Cake memo was how old?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. That one was a good fake
and the best we have is early 2001
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Actually it was a shitty fake.
And was spotted as such by our own intelligence services as soon as it surfaced. It was at about this point that Cheney's rump 'Cheney Intelligence Agency' started supressing dissent within the CIA and stovepiping its own 'intelligence' into the official case against Iraq.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. So shitty that the day we went to war we were in the minority
it SERVED its purpose
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Well in a sense it did, but not in the way I think you meant.
It is likely that the yellowcake memo was used as much to identify analysts in the CIA who were not 'team players' as it was to be part of the absurd portfolio of bullshit that the adminstration was proudly displaying to the bullshit media system who in turn were dutifully stenographing any and all nonsense handed to them. I though you meant it was a good fake in the sense that it fooled experts, not in the sense that it was tacked onto the board and nobody in the room was willing to point out that it was crap.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #38
48. I mean that it worked, just like Pinochet's fake
it wasn't good from the POV of experts, but it was ideal to alarm the people
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
70. "we were in the minority"--wrong! 56% of the American people opposed the war
on Iraq, Feb. 2003, NYT poll (and other polls corroborated at 54%-55%). I was watching this closely. 56% is a significant majority. It would be a landslide in a presidential election (and, believe me, it was). Opposition to the war has now grown to a whopping--epochal--70%, and still the American people cannot get their will enforced. These are very important facts, and they need to be understood, if grass roots activists, the left and the majority of Americans are going to get our country back. They are important to STRATEGY, and to understanding the tactics and goals of the enemy (our Corporate Rulers and war profiteers). They really don't care if they convince anyone of anything if they can maintain a sort of fuzzy, cloudy illusion of democracy, and control the voting machines. 90% of the people could be against something (the deficit, for instance--as polls show) and it makes no difference. The goal is not to convince. The goal is to directly control the mechanisms of power (for instance, election results) and to demoralize, disempower and disenfranchise the majority.

And when that big majority--56% against the war--was broken down, half the people opposed the war outright (those who had learned the "lessons of Vietnam," I presume), and the other half would only agree to an attack Iraq if it was a UN peacekeeping mission (i.e., international consensus that something must be done). In other words, this group didn't trust Bush, and, while they may have believed that Saddam had WMDs, or had something to do with 9/11 (as 50% of the American people did, at that time), they didn't believe the exaggerations of the threat, and they didn't believe it was worth a war.

Don't give the Corporate Rulers "credit" they don't deserve. They FAILED as propagandists. What they did succeed at was black-holing the story of Bushite-controlled 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
67. I don't think it's tinfoil at all.
The timing is one thing, but the fact that they haven't released the document yet, and have only threated to expel - but have not actually expelled - the person in question, those are what get me.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. Our CIA?? With their rich history of humanitarianism and love of democracy??
I'm shocked!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Best. Reply. Of. All.
:rofl: Think of the children!

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. When I told my vatos about this, not one of them expressed surprise.
They must hate America.

:rofl:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. Much More to read about the impending Coup 2007 and US DISINFO.....
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 05:56 PM by leftchick
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. Oh, NO! I just discovered your amazing post just as I have to leave.
I can't wait to get back here to read this.

So COOL. It used to take DECADES before we learned things like this! Looks as if the Bushies are getting too hsaty to control the world, and some things are getting away from them, which is only as it should be.

Thank you. Can't wait to get back here.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. I believe it. After all, there was a coup d'etat HERE.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 06:44 PM by WinkyDink
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
43. Kicking!
:kick: :kick: :kick:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. More details are available in this article, which should help:
You might want to take a look over the material, and more will be on the way, showing up somewhere. Don't look for it in any of the US sources, of course, nor AP, nor Reuters, but it should surface somewhere, and we'll be looking for it:
Operation Tenaza has the objective of encouraging an armed insurrection in Venezuela against the government of President Chavez that will justify an intervention of US forces, stationed on the military bases nearby in Curacao and Colombia. The Operation mentions two countries in code: as Blue and Green. These refer to Curacao and Colombia, where the US has operative, active and equipped bases that have been reinforced over the past year and a half in anticipation of a conflict with Venezuela.

The document confirms that psychological operations are the CIA's best and most effective weapon to date against Venezuela, and it will continue its efforts to influence international public opinion regarding President Chavez and the situation in the country.

Operation Tenaza is a very alarming plan that aims to destabilize Venezuela and overthrow (again) its legitimate and democratic (and very popularly support) president. The plan will fail, primarily because it has been discovered, but it must be denounced around the world as an unacceptable violation of Venezuela's sovereignty.

The original document in English will be available in the public sphere soon for viewing and authenticating purposes. And it also contains more information than has been revealed here.
(snip/)
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2914
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. All we need now is the official denial.
:kick:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #46
55. I saw something in the last hour which had the jerk at the US embassy claiming he was "unfamiliar"
with this memo! Oh, please!

"I don't recall," "I wasn't in the loop," "I am not a crook," etc! How many ways can they find to claim they are beyond reproach, innocent as a newborn lamb.

Well, SOMEONE knows, by god. With any luck at all, we will ALL know sometime soon, and their denials will fall on deaf ears!
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #46
79. I hope the official denial doesn't come out before the actual alleged document
:rofl:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. Lol! You may like this. Looking for sourcing, I found a Pravda article:
"Chavez Insults Most Everyone"

lol
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #44
60. thank you
for posting that. I certainly looks credible.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #44
78. Original document will be available "soon", eh?
How long does it take to fucking scan the thing and email the image to a few bloggers?
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
49. Don't you see? We are completely justified in trying to topple his government.
He's an evil dictator, the media says so.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
54. Huffington Post right on the story:The CIA plan to destabilize Venezuela...
The CIA plan to destabilize Venezuela...
Posted November 28, 2007 | 05:59 PM (EST)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read More: Venezueal Coup CIA Action-Alert, Breaking News



...is in progress right now.

A memo from CIA officer Michael Middleton Steere, addressed to CIA Director General Michael Hayden in Washington DC, has been intercepted by Venezuelan counter-intelligence; and it shows that the US plans to attempt another coup d'etat against the democratically elected government of Venezuela on the eve of a historic constitutional referendum that will democratize political power to the grassroots of the majority more thoroughly than anything we have seen in this hemisphere... ever. This outcome by a major oil producing nation that has confronted the US government is intolerable to the American political class, not merely the Bush administration. It is part of a continental drift of Latin America away from US domination; and it has world historic significance.

It is very important that this CIA plot get maximum exposure immediately across the net, because the US media, the Republican and Democratic Parties, and the US dominant class, will do everything in their power to assist the desired outcome of this illegal and immoral interference by the United States government in the democratic self-determination of Venezuela.

Widespread, rapid distribution via alternative media has the potential to expose and disrupt this CIA plot. You can do something right now. Get the word out.

More:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stan-goff/the-cia-plan-to...
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
72. The CIA
The CIA is nothing more than a cover for the Bush agenda. The agenda of Samuel Bush. And Prescott Bush. And George HW Bush. And George W Bush.

That is "off the table" as well. All eyes, as always, turn to Madame Speaker.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
82. That recent NYT puff piece on General Baduel is interesting in this context.
Edited on Thu Nov-29-07 11:33 AM by Peace Patriot
Judi Lynn alerted me to it. Baduel is a former Chavez supporter (and apparently helped to repel the anti-Chavez coup in 2002), who turned "traitor" (as Chavez put it, recently--although I would say "hypocrite" is a more accurate word, since Baduel and some others claim to be pro-Chavez but against the constitutional reforms; and, since Baduel used the word "coup" to describe amendments that the Venezuelan people are VOTING ON, and have widely discussed, Chavez came back at him with "traitor"). (A lot of fuss was made about this "traitor" remark by the "Chavez is a dictator" crowd.) Anyway, is Baduel our Corporate Rulers' "great white hope"? That is the question. Will we find headlines on Monday morning, Dec. 3, that, somehow, Baduel is heading an "interim" government, while the rightwing elements in the military, in cahoots with their Colombian paramilitary pals, are "stabilizing" Venezuela (i.e., throwing leftists out of airplanes, etc.)? Or is Baduel's ambition merely coincident with the financial interests of the NYT and other U.S. corporate rags--that is, a legit politician who may want to run against Chavez in 2012? (It should be noted that, if "yes" wins the referendum--in which one of about 60 amendments permits the president to run for office again, after two terms--Chavez does have to RUN FOR OFFICE AGAIN, and be VOTED ON by the people of the Venezuela, for a third term.)

Someone upthread (or in one of these reffed articles--can't find it right now) says the U.S. Embassy memo mentions Baduel as a CIA contact (implying they "turned" him). I'll track back to it, cuz I want to pin this down. I'm still not sure about Baduel--even if they DID contact him doesn't necessarily mean they control him, or that he is anything other than a friend-traitor (once a friend of Chavez's), not a traitor to his country. The NYT seemed to be grooming him for SOMETHING.

The NYT piece on Baduel:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/world/americas/21vene...

-----------------------------

EDIT: It's in the OP itself! (but not a quote from the document--just a summary):

"The US operatives emphasized their capacity to recruit former Chavez supporters among the social democrats (PODEMOS) and the former Minister of Defense Baduel...".
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
84. There are a lot of "Election Theft" professionals on the taxpayer dime!
Small wonder they impact US elections too! After all, their jobs are to derail the election of left-leaning candidates.

Like Al Gore and John Kerry?

We need to put an end to US interference in and attempts to overthrow democracy.
At some point, it must become national policy to allow other nations to chose their own leaders.

It would really help our own country too, to allow the people to chose the President!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
86. Another BIG factor in this situation is the many OTHER leftist governments in South America
which include Bolivarian governments allied with the Chavez government--Bolivia, Ecuador and Argentina--and friendly leftist governments in Brazil, Uruguay, Nicaragua and Chile.

Brazil's president, former steelworker Lula da Silva, recently said, about the Venezuelan proposed amendment to let president run for more than two terms, why doesn't the opposition object to Margaret Thatcher's long tenure in office in the UK, or to the many other democracies that have no term limits on the president?

He was clearly annoyed with the corporate media's disinformation about Chavez being a "dictator," and has said and done other things in support of Chavez and of Venezuelan democracy.

Rafael Correa--who is also undertaking a constitutional re-write (for which he got a mandate from the people of 80% of the vote--to form re-write assemblies)--has notably said that he wants the U.S. military base out of Ecuador, and will not renew the rental agreement. (He recently said that he would agree to a continued U.S. military base in Ecuador, when the U.S. agrees to let Ecuador have an Ecuadoran military base in Miami!)

Evo Morales--ALSO undertaking constitutional reform (and with what is clearly U.S.-backed rightwing opposition already active)--has specifically attacked the phony U.S./Bush "war on drugs" (the excuse used for U.S. military presence and interference in South America).

When Bush visited Latin America last March, he got publicly lectured, from Brazil to Mexico, by both leftwing and rightwing leaders, on the SOVEREIGNTY of Latin American countries. The rightwing president of Mexico even mentioned Venezuela as an example! (I was amazed.)

So...WHAT are all these governments, who have been spurred by the Bolivarian Revolution, to concern about their SOVEREIGNTY, and the now leftist-dominated OAS, going to DO, if the Bushites succeed in destabilizing Venezuela and installing a rightwing dictatorship?

The political landscape of South America has vastly changed over the last decade. The U.S. is in great disrepute. The U.S.-dominated World Bank has been almost completely elbowed out of the region (among other things, by Venezuelan initiatives like the Bank of the South). The U.S. "war on drugs" has become notorious throughout the region for its corrupt ties to drug and weapons traffickers and rightwing paramilitary death squads. Even the rightwing governments have become sensitive about U.S. interference.

I just can't see anything but failure ahead for the Bush Junta, if their current schemes in Venezuela produce the chaos they intend. I think it will inspire even more unity among these governments--particularly the leftist ones--and possibly joint action of some kind, to expel the U.S. from South America. An unheralded event at the recent Latin American/Spain and Portugal conference (at which the spat occurred between Chavez and Juan Carlos--over Spain's complicity in the last coup attempt in Venezuela), Nicaragua apparently proposed formation of a new OAS with the U.S. NOT a member. (There was a four-hour closed door meeting about it.) This is the new thinking. What has the U.S. ever done for Latin America--except impoverish it, and brutally interfere with democracy?

So, if this U.S. Embassy memo turns out to be the real deal--and many of us have already seen many of the provisions of this nefarious scheme in operation, in our corporate press and in developments in Venezuela (the memo has a lot of credibility in that sense--it IS what the Bushites and the Venezuelan rightwing elite ARE doing)--what will be the outcome, not only in Venezuela, but in the region?

I think the outcome will be SERIOUS political and economic BLOWBACK against the U.S.--and possibly even military action by South American countries against the U.S. (--i.e., prevention of the U.S. military from interfering in support of a coup; leftist government protests and actions against U.S. military installations that are present in their countries, and against U.S. embassies--actions that could range from calling U.S. ambassadors in for protest and questioning, to throwing U.S. diplomats out of the country).

This is one of the main reasons that I believe that, while the destabilization and overthrow plans are blatant (some of it quite visible--for instance, the recent scandalous disclosure in Colombia that rightwing paramilitaries, with very close ties to the Uribe government, and thus to Bush, were planning an assassination attempt against Chavez; and the outrageous corporate news crap, like the student shooting incident), there is another, longer term plan in motion, to overthrow the Bolivarian Revolution and make it LOOK LIKE democracy. And this, I think, it where Gen. Baduel might come in. I think that the NYT may be grooming him to run against Chavez in 2012, after a period of phony riots, street killings and other destabilization tactics, and more corporate news vitriol against the Chavez government.

Baduel will fill the role of fake leftist--much like our Democrats--but his real program will be to restore U.S. Corporate Rule, exploitation of resources and workers, and first world profiteering that has been assaulting Latin American countries for decades (and, indeed, centuries). If they somehow defeat the constitutional amendments--and Chavez cannot run again--then Baduel will slide right in a like an oil slick, mouthing a "centrist" policy; and if Chavez is enabled to run again, the destabilization efforts, Exxon-Mobile and U.S. taxpayer money, and corporate control of the media, will be combined to try to defeat him--once again offering a "centrist" policy as the "solution" to rightwing/CIA violence and chaos. Once in power, though, Baduel will begin dismantling the Bolivarian Revolution, and will also service Corporate's goals in the region ("divide and conquer," Corporate control of development projects, re-indebting South Americans to World Bank financiers, etc.).

This is the tactic that Corporate has used in the U.S., and, as South America has become more democratic, it will likely be the tactic of necessity there as well. And the final coup there--as happened here--may be their achieving direct control over the vote counting. (In Florida 2000, they used soggy punchcard ballots to create chaos in that vote count, and their "solution" was electronic voting, using 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by Bushite corporations. These SAME corporations--the "trade secret" e-voting corporations--supplied the flawed ballots in Florida 2000. See Dan Rather's "The Trouble With Touchscreens," www.HD.net .)

Corporate will do a bloody coup if they can. But they won't stop if that fails (as I think it will--partly because the REGIONAL trend is so against them). Billions and billions of dollars are at issue. And oil is at issue. Who is going to control those resources? The people of Venezuela? The people of Bolivia? The people of Ecuador? Corporate will do whatever it has to do, to regain control, and also to prevent us from hearing about people successfully controlling their own resources and economies, in a peaceful, democratic revolution. The slimier, less visible tactic of creating fake democracy has more chance of success.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. You're so right. They will not give up. I hope they don't re-destroy Latin America in the process.
There's absolutely no way the American right-wing is going to walk away from any of this. They will ALWAYS be back to regain their chokehold, again and again.

I hope the leaders have observed completely carefully everything the previous U.S. Presidents, like Nixon and Reagan and Bush, Sr. did to massacre, rape, torture, pillage, and insult all people of value in Latin America, and will have made the necessary adjustments to be able to defend themselves better than did the ones who fell.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
88. Things are not looking good for Venezuela.
Edited on Thu Nov-29-07 01:54 PM by redqueen
I wonder what the next tactic will be...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. My plan for really sticking it to Venezuela
And Saudi Arabia, Mexico, and even Canada:

Commit the USA to accelerated development of non-petroleum energy sources.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. I wish your plan was our government's plan.
Your plan really beats fomenting coups and shilling bullshit from pole to pole. But your plan also doesn't give aid and comfort to multinationals, so...

Oh well.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #90
94. Did you catch the mayor of Montana on the Bill Press show yesterday?
It was a call in. (And, I think radio makes really really bad teevee.) But, he is fired up! I've never heard of Brian Schweitzer. And he knows so much about energy alternatives that I wished his interview had lasted longer. He said Bill Richardson knows even more. Who knew.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #90
98. Why do you want to "stick it to" Venezuela?
Venezuelans and other South Americans have been cruelly exploited by U.S. corporations and other first world financial interests, and have been brutally dominated and bullied by the U.S. for decades and centuries, most recently with "free trade" and neo-liberalism, and World Bank loan sharkism, which have literally ruined entire economies in Latin America, impoverishing millions and millions of people.

You begrudge them their oil profits--for trying to repair this massive damage, and looting and neglect by the rich elite, in cahoots with global corporate predators?

Why the vendetta?

It seems to me that South American oil could be put to no better use than education, building and staffing schools, university educations, adult education and retraining, community centers, medical care, infrastructure development in poor areas never before served by government, land reform, food self-sufficiency, help to small businesses and worker coops, and development of in-country and regional manufacturing capabilities (which the rich neglected, along with everything else, and U.S./world financial interests prevented).

And thank God that the oil is in progressive hands--as to the environment. The Venezuelan government shut down global corporate mining in Zulia province, for instance, because it was so damaging to the environment, and it is the first government ever in Venezuela to acknowledge indigenous land rights (--the indigenous are often the most advanced environmental advocates). Environmental groups have a voice in this government--as they now do in Bolivia and Ecuador as well.

I am certainly not happy about the oil economy, in any respect. It has to be phased out. But I can only feel joy at what oil profits are being used for now, in the Bolivarian countries--as opposed to what they were used for before, and what they are used for here, to make the rich richer and to bloat the rich with power, so that they invent horrible wars, to get more oil.

So, why conceive of a good green conversion here as a "get Venezuela" project? I don't understand this attitude. And why group Venezuela, Mexico and Canada with the sheiks of Araby with their bloated and illegitimate power? Mexico's last election was highly questionable, but it is still a democracy, with millions of people whom our corporations have exploited and harmed. Why do you want to "get" them, by going green? And Canada--what have they done to you and me? And Venezuela, struggling with vast poverty?

If I could, I would shut down the oil and coal industries tomorrow, and put everybody on solar power and other green alternatives, but that isn't going to happen. So if, in the meantime, the Venezuelan poor are given a leg up, and a chance to create a good country, using their oil profits, that is an excellent interim use of oil. While the Bushites slaughter tens of thousands of poor people, to get their oil, Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador are thinking of how they can better peoples' lives with their oil, gas and other resources. We should be supporting this, not thinking how to punish them.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. I feel very worried. I don't care so much if the reforms pass or fail
but tend to see the democratic process as the most important thing. And there are mighty forces aligned against that process and so, against the people. I wish we could fast forward a couple of peaceful months. :(
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
95. Today I've seen the movie 'September 11', which features a segment about the coup in Chile...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328802 /

The movie was a project in which 11 directors from all over the world all made a short film (9 minutes 11 seconds) with a relation to 9/11. Director Ken Loach made a segment about the coup d'etat in Chile on September 11, 1973. 30,000 people were killed as a(n) (indirect) result of it. Socialist leader Allende had mass support from the ordinary people, because he did the same things for them Chvez is doing for his poor: raising their living standards, giving them back their land, letting their voices be heard. Allende was painted a 'communist dictator' by the US and the CIA murdered him. The result was the installation of general Augusto Pinochet, under whom the people of Chile suffered until 1990.

The same will eventually happen to Chvez, whether there will be a Republican or Democratic president in the US. The CIA will kill him and they will install another military dictator who adheres to Washington. Why else would they go through all this trouble and spend all this money?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. I wonder if that might change if we got Kucinich in office. (nt)
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #97
108. I was a Kucinich-supporter, until he decided to sabotage his own campaign by considering Ron Paul.
But at least, with Kucinich and Paul in office, such things wouldn't happen anymore, I'll give them that. Not that it matters, if they were elected they would be assassinated within six months, I guarantee you.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #108
110. The CIA thanks you
for so easily dropping your candidate. :)
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Oh yes, because I don't want a religious extremist, a racist and a bigot as vice-president...
the CIA thanks me? :crazy:

You got to find yourself a better strawman!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. He flew off at the mouth and retracted it.
Who do you support now?
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #112
117. Where and when did he retract it?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #95
100. That is certainly what the Bush Junta is up to, but I wouldn't predict their success.
The political landscape in South America has changed dramatically over the last decade--for the better. For one thing, there are now leftist governments covering most of the continent--Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Nicaragua, Chile. Most of them are allies of the Chavez government. There is a new feeling of unity and solidarity, especially regarding the sovereignty of Latin American countries, and there have been many new cooperative regional development projects. I think that, if the Bushites--who don't seem capable of doing anything except creating chaos and violence--were to succeed in their nefarious plans in Venezuela, there would be terrific economic and political blowback in the region. And also bear in mind how much the Chavez government and the people of Venezuela have weathered thus far, with their democracy and civil order in tact: the 2002 coup attempt, the crippling U.S./Exxon-Mobile-supported oil professionals' strike, the U.S.-funded recall election, U.S. interference in every Venezuelan election since 2000, the world-wide vitriol, lies and disinformation from the entire war profiteering corporate news monopoly establishment, and continual plotting against them. So I would not predict success for the Bushites. Not at all.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #100
109. If the Bushites have proven one thing, it's they can and will do *anything* .
And yes, that leaves me *very* afraid. The US has killed of too many leftist leaders in Latin-America for me not to worry.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
101. Hugo must be worried he's going to lose the vote.
Somehow I don't think the CIA etc. is that incompetent to have a memo intercepted by Venezuelan intelligence. Stupid, yes, but not that incompetent...

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Clanfear Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #101
121. True. The real question
Would be why would the memo be in Spanish if it was between two American officials?
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
102. The CIA is boring me. Using the same plan as Bush vs Gore 2000 election is
redundant. Certainly inviting Chavez to the Crawford ranch would be more entertaining.

They certainly can be more creative.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-29-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
103. Our tax dollars at work
And they failed
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
105. Amy is covering this story this morning. (Friday, 11/30) n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
106. I hope you noticed that this morning, like clockwork, the NYTs
reported that because the OAS and EU will not be monitoring the voting,the election will be vulnerable to claims of fraud.

So, now the idea has been introduced.

The election will be monitored by the NAACP and the National Lawyers Guild.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #106
114. So fucking predictable.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. It is completely predictable and, for people like me who grew up
believing that we have a free press, also sort of horrible. It's really strange that it can be both.



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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
107. More blather and speculation, yet still no image of the purported memo itself
:shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #107
113. The author of this article was on DemocracyNow! this morning.
It looks like he has good credentials and he was in no way hysterical. He is a professor in New York State. He went into a good bit of detail and there is a transcript up at Amy Goodman's site.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #113
119. The links are up now.
Tens of Thousands Protest Chavez Proposals, Is CIA Fomenting Unrest to Challenge Referendum?
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/11/30/tens_of_thousand...

In Venezuela, tens of thousands of protesters marched through Caracas Thursday to oppose constitutional changes proposed by President Chavez that come to a vote on Sunday. Citing a confidential memo, the Venezuelan government is claiming the CIA is fomenting unrest to challenge the referendum. (includes rush transcript)

LISTEN - WATCH

Real Video Stream = http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2007/nov/...

Real Audio Stream = http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2007/nov/...

MP3 Download = http://www.archive.org/download/dn2007-1130/dn2007-1130...

-------

JUAN GONZALEZ: In Venezuela, tens of thousands of protesters marched through the capital city of Caracas Thursday to oppose a series of constitutional changes proposed by President Hugo Chavez.

The referendum is coming to a vote on Sunday. Chavez plans to lead rallies in favor of the reforms today. Venezuelans will vote on sixty-nine proposed changes to the nations constitution that include eliminating presidential term limits, creating forms of communal property and cutting the workday from eight hours to six.

Thursdays demonstration was the biggest show of opposition to the constitutional overhauls so far. On Wednesday, hundreds of students clashed with police and the Venezuelan national guard. Most surveys say the outcome of the December 2nd vote is too close to call.

AMY GOODMAN: This week, President Chavez claimed the US government is fomenting unrest to challenge the referendum. His foreign minister went on television late Wednesday revealing what he said was a CIA plan to secure a no victory. The confidential memo was reportedly sent from the US embassy in Caracas and addressed to the director of Central Intelligence, Michael Hayden.

James Petras is a former professor of sociology and Latin American studies at Binghamton University. He is author of a number of books, including Social Movements and State Power. His exclusive article in Counterpunch is called "CIA Venezuela Destabilization Memo Surfaces. Professor Petras joins us now from Binghamton, New York.

Welcome, Professor Petras. Can you start off by talking about what exactly this memo is? Have you actually seen it? What is it reported to say?

JAMES PETRAS: Well, I picked it up off the Venezuelan government program. It describes in some detail what the strategy of the US embassy has been, and most likely the author, Michael Middleton Steere, whos listed as US embassy, may be a CIA operative, because he sends the report to Michael Hayden, the director of the CIA.

Now, what the memo talks about essentially is, ..............

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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
118. Kick for the weekenders
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
122. United States and anti-Chavez groups use media to twist, manipulate reality!
Commentary - Nov 28, 2007 - Oscar Heck - http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=77142

United States and anti-Chavez groups use media to twist, manipulate reality!

VHeadline commentarist Oscar Heck writes:

My eye. Yesterday, November 27, 2007, I was watching Chavez on La Hojilla, a Venezuelan pro-Chavez television show on VTV Venezuela Television ... and Chavez spoke of how CNN could be complicit in calling for the assassination of Chavez.

I agree 100% with him ... he is not paranoid, he is being realistic and rational. According to a Bloomberg report (November 28, 2007), "Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez alleged Time Warner Inc.'s CNN is seeking to incite his assassination and called for an investigation of the cable- television news channel ... CNN said in a statement that it inadvertently showed a video of Chavez and Colombian President Alvaro Uribe on its Spanish language channel with an erroneous caption that read 'Who killed him?' ... 'This headline did not refer to either of the two presidents, but rather to the death of American football player Sean Taylor, a fact made clear by the anchor in his voiceover,' CNN said in an e-mailed statement. 'The video of presidents Chavez and Uribe was used by mistake and corresponded to a preceding story. CNN en Espanol regrets the error.' "

My eye. Coincidence? No, I believe not.

As reported by VHeadline.com, a confidential November 20, 2007 memorandum has recently been published by Aporrea.org (and other Venezuelan media outlets).

This memorandum is from Michael Middleton Steere, at the US Embassy (Caracas) to a Michael Hayden, Director CIA in regard to "Operation Pincers" coordinated from the US embassy in Venezuela by Michael Middleton Steere.

The memo clearly outlines what the US government is doing in destabilizing Venezuela (against Chavez) in these last weeks and days prior to the national popular referendum to approve or disapprove the proposed changes to the Venezuelan Constitution on December 2, 2007.

Among other things, including incitement to violence, the memo clearly describes efforts by the US government and anti-Chavez Venezuelan groups in utilizing national and international media to twist and manipulate reality (in creating anti-Chavez propaganda).

This is no coincidence ... CNN is complicit ... especially since 'CNN en Espanol' is owned by the Cisneros, one of the two wealthiest Venezuelan families, totally anti-Chavez, and heavily involved (through Venevision, one of Venezuela's most anti-Chavez television stations, owned by the Cisneros) in promoting the April 2002 coup against Chavez and the subsequent violent employer sabotage of the country in 2002 and 2003.

* In English, you can see more details about the memo here at Global Research.

This is no coincidence, even if the memo cannot (yet) be confirmed to be real. I was living in Kuwait City during the Gulf War ... and I did watch CNN ... and they did claim (report) that it was Saddam Hussein who had bombed the oil wells near Kuwait City.

It wasn't true ... it was the USA, with mercenary and contractual accomplices, who bombed the wells in order to blame Saddam ... in order to justify operation Desert Storm.

I was there ... and I personally know one of the British Special Forces persons who was involved in these subversive bombings ... on a contract for the US government.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
123. It's been a whole week now, and there is STILL NO MEMO to be seen
Why not?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
124. In the sea of endless information, a document surfaces...
Finding memo.
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