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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 11:55 PM
Original message
Leaderless and clueless America heads for the trash can of history
Edited on Tue Nov-27-07 11:56 PM by BuyingThyme
Leaderless and clueless America heads for the trash can of history
By Paul Craig Roberts
Online Journal Guest Writer

Nov 28, 2007, 00:45


In new books, writers as disparate as Naomi Wolf and Pat Buchanan conclude that America as we know her is disappearing. Both writers hope, but are not confident, that enough Americans will catch on in time to find the leadership to pull America back from the brink.

If polls are reliable, a majority of Americans are dissatisfied with President Bush and Congress. However, Americans are far short of Wolf and Buchanan's grasp of our peril.

Americans are unable to connect their dissatisfaction with the current political leadership with their choice of new leaders. All polls show that Hillary Clinton is far in the lead for the Democratic presidential nomination and Rudy Giuliani is far in the lead for the Republican nomination These are the only two candidates guaranteed to be worse than Bush/Cheney.

Both Hillary and Rudy are committed to the war. Both refuse to rule out expanding the war to Iran and beyond. Both are totally in the pocket of the Israel Lobby. Indeed, practically every Giuliani advisor is a member of the Lobby. Both defend the police state measures that "protect us from terrorism." And neither gives a hoot for the US Constitution and the civil liberties it guarantees. The Republican Giuliani is likely to overturn the Second Amendment even quicker than the Democrat Hillary.

...

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2682.sh...
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Overturn the 2nd Amendment"?
Does that mean ghouli doesn't want us to have any guns? What would nra think of him? Why wouldn't they want us to have gun ownership?
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. K&R.
Entire piece is worth a read.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes, it is..but
I was hoping someone had answered my question about the 2nd Amendment..Isn't that what republicons are for..to uphold the right to bear arms?
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. There are always exceptions, though, and these are key.
Republicans are perfectly capable of openly praying to their guns while sponsoring legislation empowering Homeland Security to take 'em away from, you know, the wrong people. The paint is long since dry on "...but some are more equal than others."

The GOP may seem to stand for guns, but privilege is what they're really about.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Of course! Thanks for the
reminder..they gotta a lot of chuzpah thinking they can control our country just cause they have for so long. :(

Keep 'em down and dumb on the farm and in the cities and anywhere..just so they breed a lot and can't take care 'em. They're too busy trying to eke out a living to worry about what all we're up to. The corporatemediawhores feed 'em shite and people are basically slaves to corporations and the snoozetube where incidentally they push corporate drugs now.

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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Iraq proves the 2nd Amendment
an armed citizenry is a bitch to control.
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Sean Stuart Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. The Second Amendment is not in danger in the United States
Neither Hillary nor Rudy would ever come close to "overturn" the Second Amendment as Roberts sensationally predicts. Such a move would cause a massive backlash from at least one half of the American public - at the very least all but destroying the political party behind it.

But there's another deeper reason: Our government, no matter how extreme in totalitarian designs, would ever fear an armed American public. Not any more. Right-wing gun owners love to declare a very romantic ideal, that the right of the Second Amendment is the right that protects all others, the implication of course being that if the big bad government ever took away our rights, we'd rise up in armed revolt. But the last six years have proven this to be bullshit. Clearly, gun owners have shown that they are willing to watch our government, at least under a Republican, diminish and nullify their Constitutional freedoms as long as they get to keep their guns. And not only without revolting, but while cheering them on!

When an armed citizenry is mind-controlled enough to love their own oppression, then those arms cease to be a threat to the oppressors.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. you got it
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Hitler wanted to eventually invade the US
until one of his advisors reminded him how many guns and people trained to use them there were.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. as I said yesterday in a post I will be buying up all the guns I can if it looks like they are
going to take my right to own one. at present the only gun we have is a highly modified co2 pellet pistol that I haven't shot in a while. My neighbors son used to hop up, for the lack of a better word at the moment, co2 pellet guns, oh and its a sweet one too.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. This is a good time to buy one.
After the hunting season is over, there are usually clearance sales on guns and ammo.

He who hesitates is lost.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Exactly! I've
always wondered about that..and I don't know from guns. But, all of a sudden(after 7 years of this shite) I like the 2nd Amendment and they will not take our guns away. Not when you have fascist, greedy oily perverts herding the show.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Just some uneducated thoughts. Feel free to correct or add.
I fear that those private citizens and citizen groups who own arsenals and may be armed to the teeth, perhaps even with sophisticated weaponry and rocket launchers etc., would still be no match to the government forces. It would be bloody mayhem for some time with the government eventually hunting down and destroying every last one. The millions who own some small weapons caches are either not organized together, or loosely so and in smaller numbers than the government. A good number of guns would fall into hands of bandit marauders and add to their arsenals because those types would be the most likely to use weapons against others in the first place. People are foolish to even consider taking up arms against the government in small groups. How many of us own helicopters and armed vehicles? Who would control the fuel sources? Pray for those of us who aren't armed, and are peaceful people. I pray there are more of us than not who are peaceful, whether we have guns or not. In the case of the current type regime declaring martial law and cracking down and rounding up (controlling populations and food sources, etc.) the only forces capable of organizing against such control would be splinter groups of the American forces breaking away and declaring revolution. In that case citizens may be conscripted with their weapons.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. You have points..no doubt.
I think you might be surprised what non violent citizens could do when faced with freedom or being herded by bushites. I hope it doesn't come to that but I find it incredible how tptb(corporatemediawhores included) are trying to manipulate everything to benefit them.

There's nothing they won't do to get their way..we just have to be smarter and stronger.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I have hope for the silent masses of non-violent citizens.
There is one thing we all grew up with, even if it was somewhat of an illusion, that we are all united as freedom-loving peoples, in a Democracy, with an excellent Constitution. The illusion was that we have had the reigns of our own destiny all along. But that illusion just might save us as we see it taken away. America just might rise to the occassion with Liberty at the helm and once and for all forge that illusion into Truth.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Precisely.. That's a great
point! It's ingrained in our DNA. The joke's on them.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. The biggest threat is not the Government
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 10:45 AM by formercia
but armed groups that have their own agenda and are willing to kill anyone who doesn't agree with them. The various sectarian groups in Iraq are a good example. Some may or may not be connected to various factions in the government but the overall effect is the same as if they were directed from higher up.
My premise was not to take up arms against the Government or law enforcement but to maintain the ability of an individual to protect themselves from armed gangs or individuals when the government neither has the ability nor the desire to intervene.
If the economy in this country collapses to the point where anarchy reigns, the authorities would probably be unable to protect citizens from those desperadoes who would do anything to survive.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Yes, I understand that.
Woe to those of us who abhor violence and don't have the desire to purchase weapons with which to kill others.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. The last thing I want to do is use a weapon
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 11:14 AM by formercia
against another person, regardless of their intent.

It would be the choice of last resort.

Look at the anarchy in Germany after WWI to see how the dynamics work to the advantage of those wishing a totalitarian State.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. I didn't mean to come off sounding saintly.
Even small, violent acts are woven into being human. And I would consider after all getting a gun for those final cases where my family is in jeapordy. I'm with you though, it would have to be a last resort.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. nor I espousing physical violence
but we are in agreement that one has to protect themselves, their family and others when those we delegate to protect us are unable or unwilling to do so.

I would much rather dial 911 and let the authorities deal with the situation. That's their job.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. 911
That number has sorely been soured. With the failures to protect us since the day that devastation was dialed, who ya' gonna' call?
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. If you're Junior
call your Daddy.

Some day, Daddy isn't going to be around to yank his nads out of the fire.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. That son of a bitch has no nads!
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Fuck Him!
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 12:11 AM by Breeze54
He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration

earning fame as the "Father of Reaganomics"
:puke: :puke: :puke:



. . .
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Amen.
Fuck using right wingers when it's convenient to do so.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Are you referring to Hillary,or Roberts?
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. More:
What does this tell us about the American people and their commitment to be sufficiently informed for democracy to function?
What it really tells us is that the media in the US is so controlled by the oligarchs that most Americans have no clue and they don't even have a clue that they have no clue. Those of us who do stay informed do so at the cost of countless hours of hunting for more reliable sources of news. Many Americans are overwhelmed just trying to keep their heads above water, and since they don't know that they don't know, they are not motivated to spend those hours seeking out other information.

Sure, there is the complacency factor, but if the media were doing their job, we would not be in this position.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. More:
What does this tell us about the American people and their commitment to be sufficiently informed for democracy to function?
What it really tells us is that the media in the US is so controlled by the oligarchs that most Americans have no clue and they don't even have a clue that they have no clue. Those of us who do stay informed do so at the cost of countless hours of hunting for more reliable sources of news. Many Americans are overwhelmed just trying to keep their heads above water, and since they don't know that they don't know, they are not motivated to spend those hours seeking out other information.

Sure, there is the complacency factor, but if the media were doing their job, we would not be in this position.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. Its the M$M and the functioning of the "government" not Americans
A recent study shows that American workers works longer hours than any other worker in the world. And, why is that? Other studies show that each U.S. household needs at least 3 jobs to sustain households. All of this suggests to me that Americans are under stress trying to maintain and meet their basic needs.

Even if, Americans had the luxury to follow the "roller coaster" streams of information related to "politics" where is the "leadership" and or information that assist the masses to make an informed decision?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. There is undoubtedly much truth to this essay. Look around. Try talking to people.
You'll find out.

I spent seven long years doing the same. Know what I found out? The Imperial Subjects of Amerika, as we stand now, are mentally so very similar to the Germans of the 1930s it is not even funny. We will do anything, deny anything, to keep chewing our cud in peace just a little longer.

And if anyone thinks I am saying that makes me better than anyone else, well, I'm here at DU chewing my cud instead of fighting. I am better than no one.

But reality is reality and our Nazi-like mentality is masked by our relative wealth (even now, with the country half-looted, we are amazingly wealthy). Once that is removed and people's belts have to tighten or their lifestyles have to change to survive...well, then, let;s just say the Busheis have a plan for that eventuality, too.

Blame the Jews...I mean, err, the Liberals. Same thing, anyway, to a Bushie or a Nazi.

We ignore this at our own peril. None of us New Jews will get ANY protection from the New Germans, except sporadically and in idivudal cases (good luck to all in the upcoming "lottery" to find tiny fragments of the Soul of Old America among this BushPutinist Wasteland of Amerika).
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. Exactly. And yet those ignorant of how this transformation has historically occurred...
Will adamantly denounce you as a "conspiracy theorist" for illustrating what is obvious to the wary and informed.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
14. I liked the title from counterpunch better
though I don't believe it is allowed to be linked here for some reason. They had.....

Meet the Only Two Candidates Worse Than Bush and Cheney
Rudy or Hillary: Pick Your Poison

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS


ain't that the truth. :(
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Same exact article otherwise?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. yep!
exactly. It is right on target too.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
21. ameircans need to stop waiting for 'leaders' and starting acting like citizens instead of sheep.
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European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
22. very powerful title--hard not to click on to that.
I do disagree a bit though--Either Hil or Rudy would be better than the Poodlemaker. Even though they are controlled by AIPAC, they are intelligent and somewhat progressive.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. None of them are better than another if they are mere puppets
to the corporate machine.
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