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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 01:30 AM
Original message
Taser Factsheet
http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/node/view/5082

Taser Factsheet for use in your community

In case you have absolutely nothing better to do with your holidays or are planning on joining the "Code Pink" ladies on an outing, you might want to check out this missive from Austin, Texas.
TASER Factsheet

1) TASERS KILL: Despite manufacturer's label of "non-lethal," tasers have been involved in 250+ deaths*.

2) TASERS INCREASE, not decrease, DANGER TO PUBLIC: Despite police claims that tasers reduce injuries and save lives by providing officers with an alternative to using their firearms or batons, independent studies conclude that tasers are mostly used in situations where police use of lethal force - or even batons, sprays, or hand controls - would never be justified. This means that tasers actually increase the amount of danger to the public, not decrease it. Electro-shock weapons are particularly open to abuse as they have no time/current output limits and are seemingly harmless and officers can inflict severe pain at the push of a button without leaving substantial marks. Police often subject targets to multiple taser shocks, even while in restraints and often use them against people posing no physical threat, such as against non-violent protesters or simply anyone they perceive to not be heeding a verbal command. Many localized studies have shown that suspect deaths by gun, or suspect and police injuries have not decreased, despite introduction of the weapon.

3) EVEN POLICE ARE SUING TASER: Taser International is being sued by police officers across the nation claiming they were seriously injured after being shocked with the electronic stun gun during training classes. Injuries listed included "painful, permanent and progressive" hearing and vision loss and neurological damage, multiple spinal fractures, burns, a shoulder dislocation and soft-tissue injuries. Many lawsuits, including a few class action suits, have been filed from victims and victim's families for wrongful tasering or death, although Taser, Int. has managed to get many thrown out via legal loopholes.

4) ORGS CALL FOR BAN: civil-rights organizations including Amnesty International and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and civil liberty groups including the ACLU of Texas call for moratoriums on their use until independent hard evidence is shown that they are safe, and liken the weapon to a tool of torture. Other community groups and organizations such as various ACLU affiliates promote policy restrictions through local or state legislation. Some cities/localities are curbing or restricting use on their own such as Chicago (they self-imposed limitations to 300 on the streets compared to Houston's 3,700) and some have refused to purchase them altogether for fear of liability and worsening already-negative community relations.

MORE

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Fool_Me_Once Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. I look at tasers as Portable Electric Chairs...
so the cops can play judge, jury and executioner all without a pesky trial.
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mvccd1000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. I agree with the opening sentence of #2. That's about it...
As far as #1, yes, Tasers have been "involved" in 250+ deaths, but if I'm not mistaken, they've been found responsible for zero. In the vast majority of those deaths, illegal drugs in the bloodstream (usually meth?) have also been involved. I think that is a more salient point in this issue.

I certainly do agree that they're used far too often, in far too many situations, though. I believe they were developed as a last resort before the cop has to draw her gun. Instead, they've devolved into the last resort before she has to raise her voice.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. In 2005 ...
Taser shocks ruled cause of death

Company disputes first such finding

Jul. 30, 2005

A Chicago medical examiner has ruled that shocks from a Taser were responsible for the death of a man in February, marking the first time that the electronic stun gun has been named as the primary cause of death.
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oscarmitre Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Exactly my argument as well
The reasons for this need to be identified.
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Mutineer Donating Member (659 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I'd still rather be hit with a taser than a bullet from a gun
but I'm not very likely to put myself in a situation which would require either, hence my non-concern on this topic.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Do you drive?
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Mutineer Donating Member (659 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. A lot.
But I obey the LAWS, don't speed, always keep my inspections/registrations current, etc. And I've never charged at or otherwise threatened a police officer.

But I just keep forgetting, we're pro-criminal, anti-police at DU.
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Fool_Me_Once Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. There are over 100 reasons to be pulled over...
at any given time... If there isn't a valid reason, they will make one up.
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mvccd1000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. And.....?
I've been pulled over something like 30 times, almost always for valid reasons. Nearly all of my interactions with the police have been cordial, with no threats involved. I only get ticketed about 1/2 the time I get pulled over, even though I probably deserve it every time.

The offender's attitude goes a long way toward determining the outcome of the interaction.....
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Fool_Me_Once Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. This man here...
Edited on Thu Nov-22-07 10:02 AM by Fool_Me_Once
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3899692&page=1

Only refused to sign a ticket.. He was walking AWAY from the officer when he was tasered... The man was only trying to explain to the cop that he did not believe he was speeding.

That is not Pro-Criminal, Nor Anti-Cop.. This cop was clearly in the wrong... And it happens very frequently.
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mvccd1000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I agree - see my post #2 above.
In this case, and probably in most cases, the cops are not justified in using the taser. (Or, at very least, they certainly had a lot of other alternatives that should have come first.)

My only point was that, had this guy acted like a relatively civil person and simply signed the ticket, he wouldn't have been tased. Signing a ticket is not an admission of guilt, it's an admission that you have been served with the ticket. Since he's captured on video being served with the ticket, it's kinda pointless not to just sign the damn thing.

Doesn't excuse the cop in any way, but it does show that he contributed to the situation, resulting in an unexpected (and unnecessary) outcome.
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Fool_Me_Once Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. True... But still
he could have simply let the man explain himself first.. I am sure he would have signed the ticket after the cop heard his opinion on the matter. The driver never raised his voice.. Even after being tasered. I have to give full credit to the citizen in this incident, he was simply just trying to explain what happened.. A right every citizen should have before signing anything.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R. (nt)
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Here are some of my thoughts.


1. Tasers kill: I'd like to understand the 250+ deaths over several years in context. For example, how many people died in custody when no taser was used or what is the rate of deaths in custody via taser and other means of gaining compliance. Why would this context not be provided?

2. Tasers increase, not decrease danger to public: The police claim that there are fewer injueries and deaths because police use tasers instead of bullets or other weapons like batons, but the fact sheet then cites studies that only use lethal force (bullets) and not less than lethal force. Why would they bait and switch the discussion?

3. Even police are suing taser: Lets place this information in context. Again, who else are police suing? Does suing a manufacturer equate to a bad product?

4. Organizations call for ban: All products can be unsafe depending on how they are used and anything can be an instrument of torture -- even water. I agree that it would be good to test the product more, independently, but the bar can't be so high that its a set up for failure. Why would the torture issue be brought up except to be inflammatory?

For me the issue is clear -- accountability in usage and not the taser itself.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-22-07 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
15. I guess I'd like to know why they don't have a "low" option
These things are going to apply several tens of kilovolts to the "suspect" regardless of whether they are a pregnant motorist or a meth-crazed 300 pounder. It would be utterly trivial (and yes, I am qualified to speak here) to build these with a variable or two-stage output. And please don't tell me "an officer can't be distracted messing with a switch setting when his/her life may be in danger" - this needs to be no more complicated than a garden hose sprayer; the more you pull in the trigger, the higher the volume.

Of course, that still doesn't address whether these are being seen by some cops as an easy way to get away with punishment just for the sake of it.



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