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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:04 PM
Original message
"...then the sun exploded"....this is how one of the characters in
the movie, "The Day After" described the detonation of a nuclear device over Kansas City after diplomacy breaks down between the US and USSR when diplomacy breaks down.

It was a movie I had never seen before, released in 1983 when I was living overseas. Its depiction of how instantaenously devastating such an act could be presents an opportunity to reflect on the very real fact that there are many suns programmed to explode in the world today. With all the saber-rattling and bellicosity, how much closer is the world to watching a sun explode somewhere? How many exploding suns could sear the earth in response?

Since the Cold war, we have continued to jeopardize the world and generations to come by failing to honor or enforce the nuclear nonproliferation treaties we set up and signed. As the only nation in history to use such a weapon against another people, we bear a singular burden to take the lead in dismantling nuclear arsenals.

Our nation's arsenal has for the past several years been in the hands of madmen and shadowchasers. The governments of several other nations of the world have been handed by their peoples to men who are either like-minded or willing to steal sunfire for themselves. The congresses of the world turn blind eyes to these erstwhile Prometheuses and silently assent. And the peoples collectively join in an unspoken pact with power to forget that suns explode and the earth can be laid to waste in the path of its fire in exchange for being allowed to survive another day.

Permitting those in power to launch a war using prevention of development of nuclear weapons is a figleaf at best, particularly when noises have been made that this nation would be willing to launch an attack using those very same weapons.

I simply cannot understand how a person can devote himself to developing such weapons. Nor can I understand why someone would think that violence is the only resolution to a problem. I am only certain that we need to find a way to not just contain the sun but to extinguish it.









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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Someone explain "mutually assured destruction" to the kid.
Or take a goddamn course in international relations and find out for yourself.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Is rudeness a requirement for you on a discussion board? nt
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 07:11 PM by babylonsister
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. It's all he has. Let him huff and puff.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Kinda dismissive and rude, don't you think? n/t
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I don't think the concept of "mutually assured destruction"
applies anymore. In fact, I think we are hard-pressed to find functional international relationships in todays world. No, I'm not an expert in the "science" of international relations, but I do know that you don't develop relationships between people by posturing in the manner our "leaders" have been for the last decade.

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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I took a course in international relations, but MAD doesn't seem to work anymore.
Let's say someone sets off a nuke in Kansas City. From where? There's no missile trail, nothing that tells us where it's from. So, whom do we bomb back? It could be a rogue group, Al Qaeda, one of our own, or any of the countries with them that isn't happy with us right now. Of course, if Bush is on the throne, we'd probably bomb everyone just to cover our bases and make the entire planet enter into a nuclear winter and kill off most of the human population.

Nuclear weapons are scary, even looking at them from a diplomatic point of view. They vaporize people, for crying out loud. Their effects are felt for generations, and big enough, they seriously mess up the planet. Why wouldn't anyone be scared of that?
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. So many posts ... so little class.
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. A thousander?!

saying THAT?
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. If you really want to shit your pants, find a copy of "Threads"
It's the British version of "The Day After" but not sanitized for delicate American viewers.
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qdemn7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Testament
Completes the trio. All very good films.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Threads makes The Day After look like a Disney movie.
No joke. One of the scariest movies I've ever seen.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Yes
"Threads" was an excellent film. Extremely disturbing.

I recall not being allowed to watch "The Day After" though in retrospect that movies was generous in terms of the effects of nuclear war.
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Threads scared the
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qdemn7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Two words: "Pearl Harbor" n/t
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well Idiot In Chief decided to start building new nuclear weapons again
With his mini-nukes. Kind of hard to get other countries to not build nuclear weapons when our Dear Leader starts building them again.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. I remember when it came out., It was a made-for TV movie
They built it up for over a month with promos. A real "event" for our family.

I really feel like it will eventually happen here.
If no other reason than karma and this empire has a bunch of it coming down the pike.

I so want to be able to leave this country

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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. In my humble opinion, we need to worry about Nukes in the hands of others more than ourselves
Particularly Pakistan, Israel, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and China. Regardless of the recklessness of our current administration, the odds are far greater that a 2nd world nation will launch a nuclear strike.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. No one would have had these weapons if we hadn't given out
nuclear materials as part of our foreign policy. Some one had a brainstorm back when that nuclear technology could be distributed as part of foreign policy and used for only peaceful purposes.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. We didn't give the Russians or Chinese any materials.
They developed it on their own. The so called "atomic secrets" was mostly BS. The biggest secret was let out the day we used it-It works. After that it's just reverse engineering.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. Have you seen "Fail-safe"? First strike mentality gets a proper clobbering.
I first saw "Fail-safe" (1964) in high school. It was on TCM this afternoon and this bit of dialogue between Professor Groteschele and General Black jumped out at me. Groteschele believes the mistake that has sent US bombers to nuke Moscow should be viewed as an opportunity to annihilate the USSR once and for all. His reasoning is very Neocon-ish:

Prof. Groteschele: Now is when we must send in a first strike.

Gen. Black: We don't go in for sneak attacks. We had that done to us at Pearl Harbor.

Prof. Groteschele: And the Japanese were right to do it. From their point of view, we were their mortal enemy. As long as we existed, we were a deadly threat to them. Their only mistake was that they failed to finish us at the start...and they paid for that mistake at Hiroshima.

Gen. Black: You're talking about a different kind of war.

Prof. Groteschele: Exactly. This time, we can finish what we start. And if we act right now, our casualties will be minimal.

Gen. Black: Do you know what you're saying?

Prof. Groteschele: Do you believe that Communism is not our mortal enemy?

Gen. Black: You're justifying murder.

Prof. Groteschele: Yes, to keep from being murdered.

Gen. Black: In the name of what? To preserve what? Even if we do survive, what are we? -- better than what we say they are? What gives us the right to live, then? What makes us worth surviving, Groteschele? That we are ruthless enough to strike first?

Prof. Groteschele: Yes! Those who can survive are the only ones worth surviving. Fighting for your life isn't the same as murder. Where do you draw the line once you know what the enemy is? How long would the Nazis have kept it up if every Jew they came after had met them with a gun in his hand? But I learned from them, General Black. Oh, I learned.

Gen. Black: You learned too well, Professor. You learned so well that now there's no difference between you and what you want to kill.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Thanks for posting that. It really sums it up well, doesn't it?
In my conversations with rightwing nutjobs, that's about the size of their position, though they won't come right out and say it.
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JesterCS Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. As George Carlin said
Nuclear missiles are shaped liked penises. Its a dick-waving contest. and missiles are the physical extension of a country's manhood being threatened.. Its called " f*cking with someone "
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
21. rent or download "Testament" .It's way better
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 04:53 AM by SoCalDem
and probably more realistic unless you were at "ground zero" or nearby


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086429 /

amazon has a special category.. "Nuke Movies"..:

http://www.amazon.com/Nuke-Movies/lm/YFMJNGYBNUL6
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