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The Department of Veterans Affairs, May 2007 Total U.S. Military Gulf War Deaths: 73,846

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:43 PM
Original message
The Department of Veterans Affairs, May 2007 Total U.S. Military Gulf War Deaths: 73,846


The Department of Veterans Affairs, May 2007, Gulf War Veterans Information System reports the following:

Total U.S. Military Gulf War Deaths: 73,846

Deaths amongst Deployed: 17,847
Deaths amongst Non-Deployed: 55,999

Total "Undiagnosed Illness" (UDX) claims: 14,874

Total number of disability claims filed: 1,620,906

- Disability Claims amongst Deployed: 407,911
- Disability Claims amongst Non-Deployed: 1,212,995

Percentage of combat troops that filed Disability Claims 36%

Source:
http://www1.va.gov/rac-gwvi/docs/GWVIS_May2007.pdf
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. The combat death toll in Gulf War I was 148.
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 05:03 PM by seemslikeadream
OFFICAL COUNT FROM OUR GOVERNMENT


AND THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THE COUNT FOR GULF WAR II OUR GOVERNMENT IS PUSHING TODAY??
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. what does
Deaths amongst Non-Deployed: 55,999

even mean?
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Little things like depleted uranium poisoning,
PTSD, suicide, cancers from exposures.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks that's what I thought but
I wanted to make sure
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I assumed that non-deployed
meant that they didn't serve in theater in GWI. Am I wrong?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I've asked in the Veterans group
so to give you a qualified answer
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. thank you. n/t
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. This again?
Question - how does this mortality rate compare to civilians and non-Gulf war veterans?

Page 13:
"Although this study found no real difference between death rates among Gulf War and Non-Gulf War veterans, it found that
death rates for both groups were less than half of that found in their civilian counterparts."

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. They DIED because of BEING in a WAR
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 06:24 PM by seemslikeadream
Deaths amongst Deployed: 17,847
Deaths amongst Non-Deployed: 55,999


THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. No, it's just comparing TOTAL deaths from ALL causes
That is the mortality rate. YOu would no expect everyone who was alive 16 years ago, to be alive today. To be certain, some of them have died as a result of their service, but the number you are quoting is death from ALL causes.

The question is, are military personel who served in the Gulf War experiencing higher mortality rates than 1) Service personel who did not serve there and 2) Civilians. The answer according the the report you are referencing is:

No.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Do you realize they aren't even including the National Guard in this?
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. That is not likely to affect the RATES
You seem to be focused on the number of military personel who are no longer alive, and not paying attention to the question of whether that number is larger than it would be if the war had not occured. If a great number of deaths was due to service, then you would expect that military personel who did not serve in the was would have lower mortality rates and civilians would have lower mortality rates. Based on this report neither is true.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Are you disputing this fact?
Deaths amongst Deployed: 17,847



Dead BECAUSE of the Iraq war
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Not at all
I AM disputing that a substantial these deaths had anything to do with the war. It is the total number of veterans who served there and are not alive today. It is death from ALL causes.

Do you not understand what a "Morality rate" is?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I understand that 17,847 have died because of the Iraq War

"Morality rate" ?
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Totally misinterpreting the statistic
It does NOT, ANYWHERE in the report, indicate that all these deaths died BECAUSE of the Iraq war. It only counts the total number who have died from all causes.

Yes, you need to understand mortality rates.

Over a 17 year period, a significant percentage of people die in accidents or natural causes (the 17,000+ includes these deaths). If the mortality rate for a particular population is unusually higher than normal, then it should set off alarms that something is wrong. Out of a group of 1,129,340 adults in 1991, it is not surprising that 17,847 are not alive in 2007.

Obviously, veterans are not getting the medical attention and funding they deserve. But we are not helping their casuse if we do not use statistics properly. It is wrong to assume that any Gulf War veteran that died between 1991 and 2007 must have died from war related injuries or exposure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortality_rate

Mortality rate is a measure of the number of deaths (in general, or due to a specific cause) in some population, scaled to the size of that population, per unit time. Mortality rate is typically expressed in units of deaths per 1000 individuals per year; thus, a mortality rate of 9.5 in a population of 100,000 would mean 950 deaths per year in that entire population. It is distinct from morbidity rate, which refers to the number of individuals who have contracted a disease during a given time period (the incidence rate) or the number who currently have that disease (the prevalence rate), scaled to the size of the population.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. The name of the report is
The Department of Veterans Affairs, May 2007 Total U.S. Military Gulf War Deaths: 73,846
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Wrong - The name of the report is
"Gulf War Veterans Information System, May 2007"

The statistic is deaths. Not deaths from the war.

The report cites another study titled "Mortality among US Veterans of the Persian Gulf War: 7-Year Follow-up" to address the question of whether Gulf War veterans have a higher mortality rate.

Here is an EXACT quote from the report that you are referencing (page 13 - emphasis my own):

<snip>
2 Crude death rate for all causes of death, per 10,000 person years.
3 Death rate ratio comparing death rate of Gulf War veterans to the death rate of Non-Gulf War veterans, controlling for, race,
branch of service, unit component and marital status. A ratio of 1 indicates that the death rates are the same for the two
groups.
4 Determination if the death rate ratio was statistically significantly different from 1. Differences are considered significant
when there is 95% confidence that the difference did not occur by chance.
5 Although this study found no real difference between death rates among Gulf War and Non-Gulf War veterans, it found that
death rates for both groups were less than half of that found in their civilian counterparts.
6 An increased death rate among Gulf War veterans from motor vehicle accidents found in an earlier VA study has
disappeared in this seven year follow up study.
<snip>

Incidentally, the same study show that era veterans who did NOT serve in the Gulf War had More deaths per 10,000 (12.9 vs 11.1) than personel who served in the conflict. If the war was the cause of the deaths, why do they have a lower mortality rate? The difference was not statistically significant, but it was lower.

You are making an honest, but VERY substantial mistake here.

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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. You are correct nt
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. kick for this post alone...
correcting the assumptions of the OP.

Good post.

Sid
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I definitely know what Mortality rate is but that's not what you asked me
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yep, my typo
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Do you not understand what a "Morality rate" is?
Please check your post I was questioning if you were asking me about Morality


That horse is kinda high isn't it?
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. n/t
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 07:16 PM by barbtries
never mind
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Read the report - carefully
73,846 is not the number who have died because of the war, the linked PDF file report does NOT make that claim. It is the total number of Gulf War service personel who are no longer alive. This means that it includes deaths from all causes in the last 16-17 years. This is out of a population of almost 6.8 million veterans.


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
21.  17,847 have died because of the Iraq War
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Find the page that in any way links 100% of deaths to
the war. It doesn't link them at all. Post a page and paragraph from the PDF.



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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. I believe these are the statistics that have been hidden
corrupted and what Bush has been hiding

thing is the people who are related to all these deaths
know and have awakened them to the fact that again like vietnam
we have been decieved

Bush slaughtered our prized little lambs while he sits in his Palace wining and dining
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. the report is about the first gulf war...NOT the current war in iraq.
nt
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