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Fool Her Once, Shame on You; Fool Her Twice, Shame on Her

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:50 PM
Original message
Fool Her Once, Shame on You; Fool Her Twice, Shame on Her
The narrative of how the former President finally confessed to Senator Clinton was one of the most gut-wrenching stories I've ever read.

If Mark Penn is giving "legally accurate" explanations of the wiretapping allegations leveled by a former business partner, without volunteering the whole story to his client, that is a breach of confidence and trust. If he were her lawyer, it'd likely be malpractice.

Having been lied to and misled very publicly before, I think it would be a disastrous result for the campaign for it to emerge that she's been duped again. Time for Mr. Penn to have a "Come to Buddha" meeting with the client, on or off Martha's Vineyard.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/08/17/speech /

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3087066.jpg?v=1&c=ViewIm...

- Dave
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Put Another Way: If an Iowa Voter Asks...
... Senator Clinton if she's looked Mark Penn in the eye, and asked him - point blank - whether the quick settlement of the allegations means he actually violated state and/or Federal wiretapping laws, what's her answer going to be?

- Dave
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Snotcicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Didn't I read on DU that Gore once fire that guy? nt
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. LOL... You May Have
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes - Gore felt Penn's was less interested in helping his campaign and more focused
on Clinton's future.

Want to bet it was Penn feeding Shrum the odd belief about not bringing up BCCI because voters confused it with BBC.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ah, BCCI...
... a simpler scandal. Simpler times.

Kindly, grandfatherly-looking defendants.

- Dave
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I wonder if he was with her when the Clintons did this?
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 05:55 PM by Uncle Joe
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/cli...

"Before Hillary officially established her exploratory committee, she began directly competing with the vice president for money, sometimes even at his own fund-raising events. When Tipper's friend Melinda Blinken and a group of women planned a Gore fund-raiser in Los Angeles, Hillary insisted on being invitedover the objections of the event's organizers. Hillary then shocked the vice president's supporters by soliciting donations for herself in front of Tipper."

Why would Hillary Clinton do this to the Gores in California, when she was only running in New York?

Personally, I believe Bill Clinton screwed his loyal Vice-President over three times before Al Gore ever reached the podium at the 2000 convention that was to nominate him for the Presidency.

The first was the adolescent throw back affair it self, this is when Bill Clinton forgot the theme song from his own 92 convention, Fleetwood Mac's "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow", I still have ambivalent feelings whenever I hear that song. This also told me Bill Clinton didn't truly believe the looming catastrophe of Global Warming was for real, or he wouldn't have jeopardized his Vice-President's upcoming election. I believe as bad as this was, it wasn't insurmountable because it was primarily a betrayal against his own family and many would consider this private behavior.

The second and much more devastating betrayal against Al Gore was when Bill Clinton looked the American People in the camera lens and told them quite adamantly that he never had sexual relations with that woman. This turned a family betrayal in to a national one, he lied to everyone at this point, he and certainly Al Gore would've been much better off had he kept his mouth shut or at least admitted the truth up front, because this act gave Bush the integrity issue ammunition on a silver platter. Bush's cronies knew it as well, that's why he ran on "restoring honor and integrity to the White House".

The third time was at the 2000 convention it self, read the paragraph below and couple that with what seemed like a ten minute self aggrandizing walk down the hall way, when he could've used that precious national prime time air time to promote Al Gore for President. It was always about Bill and when Hillary had him by the short hairs it was always about Hillary, this is a large reason as to why we have Cheney/Bush in the White House today.

"During his all-night conversation with Ken Burns in June, Bill "spoke movingly of the Democratic National Convention that was coming," Burns recalled, "and how because he was on the backside of scandal and impeachment he had a more delicate role to play."

I can't help but be amazed by people who claim Al Gore made a mistake by not using Bill Clinton more. Should your friend and superior stab you in the back, one could make an excuse for them and say, hey he just tripped with that Bowie Knife in his hand and it was an accident. If the same friend then stabbed you twice in the back, you could still forgive them and say, he just tripped with the Bowie in his right hand and the K-Bar in his left. Now if the friend stabs you in the back three times, you might begin to question their loyalty and say he just tripped with the Bowie in his right hand, the K-Bar in his left, but where in the hell did that rusty butter knife come from!? I believe that alone would be enough to make a person go to Spain for a while and grow a beard.

Final conclusion, does anyone see any irony in the corporate media's 180 on the Clintons; people they waged a witch hunt against from the beginning to the end of his eight years in office. Today the same corporate media believe the same man should be our nation's very first First Gentleman, only they're having difficulty using that term, it's more like First Spouse or First Husband, even though First Gentleman would more a applicable counter title to First Lady. I believe their primary target was Al Gore from the beginning precisely because he empowered the people when he became the primary political champion of the Internet, thus threatening their monopoly on information, information = money, power and influence and as the Internet grew in power and influence they came to resent Al Gore for it. I call this the Prometheus Effect.



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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thank You for the Information, and for the...
... reference to a favorite mythological character: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus .

How apt.

- Dave
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. My own twist on it is
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 07:07 PM by Uncle Joe
that "information is fire' and the Internet is Heracles or Hercules. As familiar as I was on the subject, I've never heard of the Pandora angle until I read wikipedia's take on it.

Thanks for the link,

Uncle Joe
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Being a Fact-Bearer...
... has long been a thankless job.

; )

And the gods do dream up some interesting punishments for those who dare to cross them.

- Dave
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. This post brings Galileo to mind.
It wasn't the gods so much as those; who claim to speak for God.

Uncle Joe
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Who Spun the Greek Myths?
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 07:24 PM by CorpGovActivist
The city-states' priestly power structures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_myths

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia

Mark "Pythia" Penn uses a lot of the same kinds of smoke and mirrors (and maybe even a few hallucinogens) as the hoaxsters of Delphi to produce his predictions - a true modern Oracle.

- Dave
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. In a larger context, not just Greek Mythology, but myth from all over the world and of
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 08:00 PM by Uncle Joe
different ages, I would highly recommend, purchasing the book "The Power of Myth', this book is a compilation of several interviews between Bill Moyers and the late Joseph Campbell. Every now and then P.B.S. telecasts this program as well, usually during fund raising drives. Campbell taught that virtually all the world's myth regardless of culture and time had many common denominators even when there was no contact between the cultures and he believed that the primary purpose of myth was to pass down from generation to generation the accumulated wisdom of the human condition.

Of course people can use myth to spin it all for their own agenda, however if there is no underlying fundamental truth in the usage of it, there is no power to it.

Uncle Joe
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. George Lucas...
... drew extensively from those concepts.

; )

- Dave
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yes and Joseph Campbell
uses the Star Wars myth extensively in his book as well. :)

Peace to you,

Uncle Joe
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. When I Had Lunch with Lucas...
... I was surprised to learn that his least favorite of the three originals was Empire (which I think is the best of all 6). The reason he cited: the studio strong-armed him into rushing it, given the surprise box office of ANH.

You might find this to be of interest (I seem to recall that Campbell has said Lucas was his best student): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell#Campbell.2...

- Dave
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Let's face it - Hillary2008 was operational the moment they began her Senate run.
Which is undoubtedly why both Clintons gave Bush consistent PUBLIC support on the two biggest issues of the 2002 and 2004 elections - his decisions on terrorism and Iraq war.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I agree blm, I also believe
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 04:51 PM by Uncle Joe
Hillary Clinton was correct in one aspect, there was a vast right wing conspiracy, however it was actually aimed at Al Gore and the Clintons were part of it, along with the ownership of the corporate media. They did too much damage to his election prospects over too long a period of time, for me to come to any other conclusion. For a supposed astute politician with an innate ability to understand human nature and what motivated people, Bill Clinton's deeds didn't match his words when it came to the import of supporting his loyal Vice-President's election. The wasted walk down the hall way during the Convention that was to nominate Al Gore for President was just a prime example that shined a true light as to where Bill Clinton's priorities lay.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I wonder if they
would have given the bushites such public support if they knew how blow back in the neocon's face this would get this? They didn't go with any conscienciousness actions so I'm sure they didn't deliberate very long.

Too bad they didn't have a crystal ball ..they could have fooled us even longer.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. I would be very happy to never see another Bush or CLINTON
As President again in this country. After years of Republican policy, Bill Clinton didn't exactly shove the country back to the left to balance it out again. Instead, we only leveled out and stopped losing ground, while no ground was taken back during his tenure.
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