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Mark Penn's Vegas Rules: What Happens in His Bordello, Stays in His Bordello

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:14 AM
Original message
Mark Penn's Vegas Rules: What Happens in His Bordello, Stays in His Bordello
The Washington Post ran this story earlier this year, examining the client list of Mark Penn, the "chief campaign strategist" for Senator Clinton's campaign:

***************************************************
A Few Degrees of Separation From Hillary Clinton's Top Adviser

By Jeffrey H. Birnbaum
Tuesday, February 20, 2007; Page A11

Mark J. Penn is a man who wears many hats: high-paid political and corporate pollster, chief executive of an international communications and lobbying company, and chief strategist to New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Enough connections for you?

Well, there are more. Penn's firm, Burson-Marsteller Worldwide -- with 2,000 employees and $300 million a year in revenue -- owns BKSH & Associates, the major lobbying firm chaired by Charles R. Black Jr. That's right, Black, counselor to Republican presidents, reports to Clinton's top strategist. ...

Full story link
***************************************************

When Senator Edwards called out Penn's ties to Blackwater and compared him to Karl Rove, he was roundly criticized.

I think it was right to criticize Senator Edwards. He insulted Karl Rove, who has kept a consistent client list - adhering to a certain core set of principles.

In Mark Penn's bordello, each client must apply Vegas rules.

- Dave
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. People who are very good at public manipulation
are very good at it no matter who they ostensibly work for.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Penn's Not Selling a Toaster...
... and he cannot focus group his way to the 360 Electoral College votes he claims to have - without the datasets to back up his assertions.

- Dave
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Hawaii Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. I'd love to see the states that make up the 360 electoral votes
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Translation: People who are amoral representing one client are usually amoral representing others...
Clinton can attempt to separate herself from the amoral dealings of Penn, and further try to publicly wash his sins white as snow by claiming he no longer has any connection with those earlier indiscretions, but it is not going to work.

Penn is another Rove, and her embracing of him has marked her --permanently.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Not to Mention: What Access Are His "Other" Clients Seeking to Her thru Him?
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 11:31 AM by CorpGovActivist
Give the American People a break: the companies flocking to use his firms' (plural) services now are seeking back door favoritism on legislation, regulatory relief, etc.

- Dave
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Well that goes without saying... Penn is likely marketing that strategy to all prospects
They know who has the 'juice.'
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. But It Happens - Oh So Very - Subtly...
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 11:54 AM by CorpGovActivist
... like how PwC partners on K Street used to swing key prospective clients by the corner office with Newt Gingrich's nameplate on the wall, filled with some knickknacks when he was Speaker, and said, "He's out of town today, but he won't mind if we peek in."

- Dave
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. K & R for the truth!
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is just a business to them
Part of running the "textbook campaign".

Acquiring power for the sake of acquiring power.

YUCK.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Mr. Penn Founded His Firm as an Undergrad...
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 11:47 AM by CorpGovActivist
... and has been engaging in on-the-job training on-other-people's-dime ever since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn%2C_Schoen_%26_Berland

Know who else decided during his (uncompleted) undergrad studies that he was fit to run campaigns?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove

That's right. Karl Christian Rove.

- Dave
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Where the money goes
Students of social networking might enjoy this:

http://www.public-i.org/527/search.aspx?act=com&orgid=8...
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Great Group...
... they do some of the most important data mining out there.

- Dave
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I can't take credit
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 01:31 PM by formercia
It was one of the references on the wiki page.

Databases are a double edged sword.

The NAZIs loved to document everything to their downfall.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. "Databases are a double edged sword."
Phantom databases and phantom datapoints are phantom double-edged swords.

Mr. Penn plays air guitar and air samurai with the best of them.

- Dave
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. It's all a matter of public perception
If you can make people believe a candidate is winning, then they're more likely to accept a flipped vote tally from the rigged tabulator.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Then in This Story...
... I guess the more little boys and girls crying, "The Empress's datasets have no data," the better.

- Dave
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R....Any Dem Candidate involved with Penn's Empire has no scruples
...they just want to WIN at all costs. Is this the type of candidate we need at this crisis point in America? Isn't this cronyism and manipulation by pollsters, spin meisters and corporte whore lobbyists what got us into the mess we are in right now? When winning is everything...who do the spoils of the battle go to? :shrug:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. How Many of Penn's Clients Pay FICA on 100% of Their Payroll?
That's a roundabout way of answering your question.

- Dave
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. you've quite the hard-on for Mr. Penn lately...
did he egg your house or something?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The 360 Electoral Vote Claim...
... he made earlier this week caused my jaw to drop.

He egged the Democratic primary voters with vaporware datasets.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=mark+penn+360+...

- Dave
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. that was astonishing, to say the least
then again, he's a paid political pollster...which is somewhere beneath lawyer and peep show booth wiper on the "respected professions" chart.


(i'm a lawyer, i get to say that. i apologize to any peep show booth wipers who may be offended)
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. When I Hear a Blatantly Rigged Dataset...
... I start to delve into the source.

With Mr. Penn, the more I learn, the more I think it is wise to "consider the source."

- Dave
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. wait just a second...
you assume he even has a dataset to rig? :rofl:


i assume "campaign stunt". but then, i'm a cynical bastard.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Hence My Use of Vaporware...
... my cynicism is in direct proportion to the outlandishness of the claim - and 360 Electoral Votes is pretty darn outlandish.

- Daver
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desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. So Penn makes a ridiculous assertion.
"With Mr. Penn, the more I learn, the more I think it is wise to 'consider the source.'"

I believe it is also wise to consider the source, all sources, hence I wanted to put a face on Jeffrey H. Birnbaum since the name sounded familiar.

Maybe Penn egged Birnbaum's house? (Thanks MrCoffee)

http://spa.american.edu/ccps/getimage.php?table=staff&I...

Before joining Time in 1995, Birnbaum worked for the Wall Street Journal for 16 years.

<snip>

Birnbaum is currently a commentator for public radio's Marketplace. In 1998, Birnbaum was hired as a Fox News contributor. He is featured regularly on Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume as one of the show's "Fox All Stars" and on several other Fox News programs. He is also a familiar face on PBS' Washington Week. In addition, he has appeared on Today, the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, Nightline, Fox News Sunday, the Charlie Rose Show, NPR's Morning Edition and All Things Considered, and CNN's CNNfn, Inside Politics and Crossfire. He has lectured for trade and professional groups and at major colleges including Harvard, Amherst, Penn, and the University of Texas.

http://spa.american.edu/ccps/staff_listings.php?ID=28
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Birnbaum's Body of Work
Washington Post articles: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+site:www.washingt...

Available online videos: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jeffrey+birnbaum&...

Public Broadcasting (not to be confused with Penn's "PBS"): http://www.google.com/search?as_q=jeffrey+birnbaum&hl=e...

NPR: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=jef...

CNN: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=jef...

If/when Rupert Murdoch opens up the WSJ to free views, we can all go there, too, to see Birnbaum's earlier work: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=mur...

But unless someone has evidence that Mr. Birnbaum had a gun to Mr. Penn's head, I think it's fair to lay the 360 Electoral College votes memo at Mr. Penn's feet: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=mar...

- Dave
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. So, Penn is claiming to have "The Math"
Sounds familiar, right?

---
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. A Wormhole Ate His...
... calculations. The wormhole was opened by same astounding data.

; )

- Dave
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sorry not to be pure and noble, but we need successful street fighters, NOT the trendy-clueless
consultants that paralyzed GORE and KERRY. We're in a winner-takes-all system. Going down in flames with a NOBLE, PURE candidate will not get our Dem agenda anywhere. The unscrupulous Rethug that takes power will set us back another generation. And to those who will predictably say, "We don't want to be like them," it's the same thing as saying "no difference."

The worst Dem will still appoint better and make better policy all up and down the line.


Look at the 2nd row. Every single one of them was smarter, better, more visionary, more honest and everything else good than the a-hole Rethug that took the power. What did they get our agenda by losing? What they lacked was the will to fight and win.

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. If What Mr. Penn Calls "Street Fighting" Could Pull 360 Electoral Votes ...
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 01:05 PM by CorpGovActivist
... out of the hat, I'd be Mr. Penn's biggest cheerleader.

But pushing phantom datasets and false poll numbers isn't street fighting.

- Dave
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Terri S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. Let's not forget his polling company
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. See #7 above, and Thanks...
... for the additional data about PBS.

- Dave
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
31. An obvious conflict of interest
combined with the fact that Carville, husband of Cheney's assistant, is also one of her campaign strategists. Too many opportunities for confidential campaign strategy and information to be shared with the GOP.

I'm so old, I remember when it was considered a bad idea to have someone from the opponent's campaign spying on you.

It just doesn't make sense.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. No, No: Mr. Penn's Firm Is Well-Versed in How to Erect Chinese Walls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_wall

No information permeates those formidable information-sharing barriers.

:sarcasm:

- Dave
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Potemkin Candidates
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 05:59 PM by formercia


When dorothy looks behind the curtain.....



This is not the Oz I imagined.....
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. K&R - It's so nice to have you back Dave!
I like the things I learn when you're posting, although I have to say this one doesn't surprise me in the least.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I Like the Things I Learn...
... from those who engage, and provide facts that shed a new light on my viewpoint.

: )

Nice to see you, too!

- Dave
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