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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:47 AM
Original message
Angry about "Excess Government Spending?"
then answer these questions?


Do you have a monthly or yearly budget to which you adhere to strictly?

Do you use credit cards without knowing how you will pay them off within your lifetime?

Do you buy "crap on credit", just because "you can"?

Have you spent most of your adult life working to buy "toys"?

Do you give your children an allowance "just to keep them quiet"?




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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. No. What's your point?
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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The point is
that the population expects government officials to "do better" than average individual households.

Most Americans live above their means, then scream about "excess government spending".

The inconsequence of individual households in dealing with their finances paves the way for "corporatism" and "unnecessary war".
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. ...or the other way around.
they see government doing it, and providing plenty of unregulated opportunities for us to do it. The fruit rots from the top-down.
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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thats the easy way out of the discussion
letting the world know that you are not in control of your decisions.

However fruit rots is not the issue. We are talking about economic activity.

Every individual who participates in economic activity influences the economy.

When a majority of the population thinks that "its normal" to use the credit card at the local snack shop, to charge groceries on the credit card, and to take on new credit cards to improve the situation (9% is lower than 19%), then the majority of the population loses their voice.


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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. You're creating an either/or situation where it's not.
Both the government and the individuals are irresponsible. That's why I'm confused about your use of "quotes" - which infer that exessive government spending is somehow okay.
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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Please excuse the misunderstanding/confusion ...
my point is that "we the people" point our finger at the government for mistakes which are similar to those which we make in our own households.

Households which live above their means and countries which live above their means are equally responsible for the damage done.

As long as individual households "want more, right now", then there is no end to Corporatism. No government official can keep Corporate America from taking advantage of the insatiability of the American population.




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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Actually, the point is...
government officials are presumably qualified in many areas in which individual households and their members cannot be expected to be.

In order to work for the government, one must have some background in a given field, apply for the position and then prove their creds as outlined on their resume. That is the theory.

Are you saying that members of U.S. households should each hold degrees in or have expert knowledge of finance, accounting, real estate, law, environmental law, building codes, buyer protection policies and so on?

Many rely on government officials to know and do their respective jobs "to promote the common welfare" of We, the People.

So, yes, I do expect government officials to do better than average individuals since they have the resources and knowledge and that is what I pay them for out of each paycheck I receive. Their job is to "promote the common welfare" not hold us hostage to corporate interests.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Now that is an excellent point.
But here's the rub. In order to make such a financial decision, the individual needs to APPLY somewhere. Which puts the responsibility of educating the consumer squarely upon the professionals who do peddle these products: the credit card company, the mortgage broker, etc.

That's not happening, and just now the Democratic congress is trying to do something about that.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. There have been consumer protection laws in place over many decades...
they have been denied funds, denied authority and essentially made "toothless" by politicians on both sides of the aisle in favor of the "rights" of business.

Until we get over our "collective" love affair and worship at the altar of business and start holding accountable our elected officials, who are supposed to be our elected representatives, for representing the rights of We, the People, we are going to continue down this road to financial ruin.

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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Wheres the Democratic Credit Card Company?
If you place so much trust in the Democratic Congress to keep credit card companies from raking in cash, then maybe we should create a "Democratic Credit Card Company"?
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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Yes, I am saying that individuals should "think"
and learn to make "sound, adult decisions". You dont need expert knowledge in finance to know that if you dont have any money in your pocket, you cant buy the candy bar.

Wishful thinking !!! that government officials will be better than average individuals. Where should they learn to make better decisions than the rest of the population. They all went to the same high schools, the same colleges, and attend the same churches.



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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. So you think it's people's stupidity and greed rather than lack of resources?
Nice. You've got the "poor people are poor because they're flawed" mentality down perfectly.

Have a nice visit.



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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. No, thats a misunderstanding.
I am talking about "people who live over their means". I am not talking about certain income levels.

Yes, I think that people at all income levels can be insatiable.

When people buy new cars on credit instead of paying cash for an old beater, when they buy a 5 bedroom house on credit with an income for a two bedroom house, when they take a trip to the islands on credit instead of paying cash for a trip to the nearest bed-and-breakfast, then they are making unsound financial decisions.

When people expect their government officials to act differently, then thats wishful thinking.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. OMFG -- Lurita... is that you?
:bounce:
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. Responsibility begins at the top ..
Government fails 10th consecutive audit

The Defense, State and Homeland Security departments, as well as NASA, received disclaimers on their 2006 audits.

As anticipated, the federal government flunked its audit for fiscal 2006, with $797 billion, or 53 percent, of its reported assets and an additional $790 billion, or 27 percent, of net costs, on the balance sheets of five agencies that could not be fully audited.

This marks the 10th year in a row in which the government's consolidated audit statement received a judgment of "no comment" from auditors. The Defense, State and Homeland Security departments, as well as NASA, received disclaimers on their 2006 audits. The Energy Department, which was only partially auditable due to a disclaimer in 2005, earned a qualified opinion -- a step up from no opinion but still short of a clean bill of health.


Put the government in check, there will be less taxation, thereby allowing the average citizen to actually have disposable income to spend as they please.
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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Thats exactly what I was talking about, THANK YOU!
Responsibility begins with the "thinking individual", not with the elected respresentative.

There already is a system of having disposable income to spend as you please, its called a credit card ... and we have all seen how well this system works for banks and other lenders.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. But no one is giving us tax dollars to be fiscally responsible.....
N'est-ce, pas?
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. OK, I'll answer them for you.
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 11:45 AM by backscatter712
1. Yes. I do, in fact, keep a good budget.

2. No. I once did, and it bit me in the ass. The .gov is doing the same thing, and that will bite US in the ass! :mad:

3. Not anymore. See answer 2.

4. I've spent most of my adult life working to eat, put a roof over my head and pay bills. It's nice if there's some left afterwards to buy toys with, but I have my priorities straight.

5. I don't have kids.
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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Thank you for answering
with your honesty and with your healthy perspective.

You know that its YOUR responsibility to make sound economic decisions, and THEN to expect this behavior from your elected officials.

Good for you!
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I'm already making sound decisions. I want my government to do the same
right now! I am not waiting for your approval before expecting the government to adhere to sound fiscal policy.
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Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thank You!
and more power to you!
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