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Doctor being prosecuted for giving medical aid to protester being brutalized by cops

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:31 AM
Original message
Doctor being prosecuted for giving medical aid to protester being brutalized by cops
<skip>

When I became a doctor I knew I would encounter a lot of human suffering, but I never envisioned a time when my efforts to alleviate it would get me brutalized by the police, then charged with a crime. I never envisioned a time when I would witness another health "professional" brazenly violate the most fundamental principle of medical ethics: first do no harm. But thirty years after graduation, at a political event on the campus of the University of Michigan, those things happened.

<skip>

I heard a commotion in the hall and stepped out of the room. In the hall I saw the same huge cop on top of the second protester who'd come to the first victim's aid. The cop had the man, a relatively small guy in his forties, pinned down, arms pulled behind his back, getting handcuffed. The cop used PPCT against this person also, not once but twice. The man writhed and cried out in pain.

The cop used his far-greater strength and body weight, along with the force of his knee on his victim's back to press his chest against the floor. It would be impossible for a person to inflate his lungs pressed against the floor with his hands cuffed behind his back like that. Asphyxiation being a well-known cause of death of people in custody, when the man started calling out that he couldn't breathe, I approached, identified myself as a doctor, and instructed the cop to turn him over immediately. The victim went limp. The cop turned him onto his back. I saw that the victim had a wound on his forehead and blood in his nostrils. He was unconscious.

<skip>

When the patient didn't respond to a sternal rub, one of the paramedics popped an ammonia inhalant and thrust it beneath the patient's nostrils. If you're interested in what's wrong with that, google Dr. Bryan Bledsoe, foremost authority on paramedicine, and read his article condemning this dangerous practice. That it's "just bad medicine" is sufficient to make the paramedic's actions unacceptable, but what happened next made my blood curdle. He popped a second inhalant and a third, then cupped his hands over the patient's nostrils to heighten the noxious effect. "You don't like that, do you?" he said.

At that point I issued a direct medical order for him to stop, but he ignored me. "What you're doing is punitive," I said, "and has no efficacy." Then as the patient retched, rather than rolling him onto his side to avoid the chance of his choking on his own vomit, a firefighter held his feet down and yelled, "don't spit." In thirty years of doctoring, I have never witnessed such egregious maltreatment of a patient. Again I spoke up, "this is punitive." I hoped to shame the paramedical into stopping his unethical behavior.

<skip>

The U of M proceeded with prosecution of the other three people, but I heard nothing further from them until I filed a complaint of police brutality. Now I'm facing criminal prosecution, too, along with the Professor of Iranian History, who, like me, was charged after she filed a complaint. We five are being prosecuted for "assaulting/resisting/obstructing" police officers, and in my case, for "assaulting/resisting/obstructing" paramedics as well.

more . . . http://answer.pephost.org/site/News2?abbr=ANS_&page=New...
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, I'm speechless. What have we become?
--IMM
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. A nation of thugs
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. sadly this is true
:-(
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. A brutal feudal society, wrapped in a glittering veneer of cell phones and sitcoms.
That's what we've become.

A society that spies upon the everyday conversations
of its own citizens, "just in case".

A society whose appointed "protectors" consider
CodePink a threat as great as al-Quaida.

A society that "disappears" people to be tortured
and murdered in the name of "freedom".

A society where the themes of murder and torture
are acceptable as the premise for "humorous"
fast-food advertising.

The center cannot hold, because it's not even THERE any more.
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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. I really like this:
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 05:06 PM by BobTheSubgenius
"wrapped in a glittering veneer of cell phones and sitcoms"

It's the New Millennium version of Bread and Circuses.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. so apt...


to DU!

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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #60
81. Same as it ever was. nm
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #60
129. As Ani DeFranco says in her poem
Self Evident...

...Take away our Playstations and we are nothing but a third world nation.

How true..third world in economic inequality

Third world in the lack of access to many services considered vital to a healthy standard of living unless one is well off.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
65. It's amazing that a little band of lunatics could have so much leverage...
In a supposedly enlightened society, to be so extreme, (yes to the point of insanity) and even with so much force, to have such power, means the fulcrum must be close. I figure it was racism that provided that point to pivot on.

Fear of crime, fear of unemployment, pressures of a squeezed out population, drive people to vote against their own interests. There's more, of course. Greed, ignorance, and playing to religion, all manner of snake oil, added momentum to the swing.

--IMM
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #51
138. Goodness, that's poetic
I think you ought to clean up the rhythms of the words, expand on this a bit more, and submit it for publication somewhere.

Wow.

"wrapped in a glittering veneer of cell phones and sitcoms."

Brr. That gave me chills, actually. How very right you are.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #138
139. Thanks, kgf. I do have my moments. nm
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
55. Not we--THEM. n/t
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
114. A fascist state nt
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
127. Can you say "police state" boys and girls?
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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. I just read this
from and ANSWER e-mail. What the hell? I'm really at a loss for words. All I can offer is this observation: as the treatment by police becomes more brutal so will the backlash against them.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. It's getting pretty scary
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
128. The backlash is already happening in many
urban areas, especially St Louis. Several cops have been shot at and one rookie killed within the last few months.

When the shootings happen the cops wring their hands on TV and say, they just don't understand the anger. Just recently one of the "news" stations in St Louis did a report about a guy who just received a death sentence for killing a cop in 2005. They went to the guy's neighborhood and found a very old person who lamented the lack of respect young people have for the law. Interesting that they couldn't find anyone younger than 50 to say they didn't understand why the young respect cops less than their elders did.



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FtWayneBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. I just signed the petition.
Thanks to all who help those who are speaking truth to power.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Here's a link for others who want to sign:
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. Thanks for the link
*signed*
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
56. Thanks, I signed it. NT
NT
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
105. So did I...plus a nasty note! n/t
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. K & R
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 10:42 AM by MethuenProgressive
:kick:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. universities will be ground zero for this
as they are where the rubber meets the road in terms of thought and action. they are also set apart from the rest of society. "town and gown" historically means "what happens on campus stays on campus.

this is an amazing story. i hope these stories continue to get out.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. Wow, very scary stuff!
Thanks for posting this.

Recommended.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. I totally agree Spazito....things are getty worse and worse by the day here...
Canada is looking better and better....assuming one can get past the RCMP without being tasered in Vancouver airport...Ugh....

I just feel sick seeing the increasing number of police aggression on people everywhere....

Is it a sign of things to come?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. I do think things are going to be tough, economically, for a long while....
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 12:56 PM by Spazito
especially, but not only, in the US. The effects of what is happening in the US is affecting Canadians to an extent, a much smaller extent to date, but who knows where this will eventually end, the worst has not yet happened, imo.

The actions of the RCMP re the Vancouver Airport travesty is appalling, I am proud of my fellow Canadians, though, in that they have, in very large numbers, vocally expressed their outrage at what happened to that poor man. So much outrage has been expressed across the country that the RCMP were forced to issue a statement acknowledging that outrage. Much as they would like to keep control of the investigations by making them "in-house", that is not going to happen this time, thank goodness. The reputation of the RCMP had already been seriously damaged by the appalling part they played in the Arar case and now this. A THOROUGH house-cleaning and revamping of their policies, procedures, etc, need to happen and soon, imo.

It need not be "a sign of things to come" but only if we, the people, work to ensure it doesn't go any further and accountability is demanded, imo.

Canada needs to turf out this current bushwannabe government and re-establish this country's intrinsic values and I sure hope it happens as a result of the next election which could happen any time, from now to 2009.

Edited to correct grammatical error.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. That kind of police behavior is against AAPD policy:

Complaint Procedure

It is the policy of the Ann Arbor Police Department to investigate all allegations and complaints of misconduct against any member of the police department. Proper adherence to the provisions of this policy will resolve disputes and facilitate prompt and equitable corrective disciplinary action.

1. To file a complaint against an Ann Arbor Police Department employee, contact a police supervisor or any department member: by coming in person to the Police Department; or by writing; or by telephone.

2. All complaints received by non-supervisory employees will be immediately directed to a police supervisor

3. Letters or telephone calls may be anonymous.

4. On all complaints, a Personnel Complaint Form is completed by a Police Department supervisor, based on the information provided.

5. Persons making a complaint are encouraged to provide a written account of the incident to avoid conflicts in interpretation.

6. A copy of all complaints and the resulting investigation will be routed to the Chiefs Office for review and resolution.

7. Notification will be made to the reporting party informing him/her of the results of the departmental investigation. If the complainant did not give an address or phone number, notification cannot be made. However, you may contact our Professional Standards Section (734-994-0497) to check on how your complaint was resolved. A letter will be sent on those investigations that will involve a significant amount of time. The letter will explain the status of the investigation.


For further information, write or call:

Ann Arbor Police Department
Professional Standards Section
100 N. Fifth Avenue
P.O. Box 8647
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48107
734-994-0497
http://www.a2gov.org/government/safetyservices/Police/P...
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Sounds like they aren't enforcing their own policy
Count me as not surprised.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
98. My official request for info from the Ann Arbor Police re: who trained these officers?
I am a professional journalist covering Blackwater and private military contractor issues for several publications. I request information on whether or not Blackwater USA, Blackwater Worldwide, or any of its subsidiary or affiliated companies have provided any training for the Ann Arbor Police Department.



I also seek to know whether any other private contractor has trained officers for the Ann Arbor Police Department.



I also request information on what sort of training all officers involved in the arrest of Catherine Wilkerson, M.D. have undergone, and whether any of them were trained by private contractors especially Blackwater, either for your police force or any prior law enforcement or military post that these officers have held.



I request this information ASAP. Thank you for your assistance.



Miriam Raftery

Writer Ink

ASJA national award-winning journalist

San Diego Press Club best investigative, best political reporting, best series, and best of show awards, 2006 and 2007
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. I'd also like to know what the psychological tests these
officers, and now even paramedics & firemen take, and what continuing education/training/inservices they also must complete. At what point, and whose blessing, did they decide the general public - the public they are employed to service, not abuse - became the enemy.

The doctor certainly was acting as a Good Samaritan. Coming to rescue a human being in distress is not interfering. I read Dr. Bryan Bledsoe's article a couple months ago about the use of ammonia inhalants. Not only should they read that article, but perhaps they should also read the testimony of the pathologist who testified in the case in Florida of the 14 year old boy who died in that damn detention camp. My God, the paramedic was barbaric! Is that what our protectors have become? Is this what our tax dollars are supporting? Is this what I will face if I displease one of them? Thank you, I don't want it.

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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. That is just so sick and wrong
the cop could have killed that guy and with the paramedic right there. Wow! What pisses me off is that there are ways around this type of brutality. Years ago I worked at a State Mental Hospital. I was warned from the get go that even if we were attacked we couldn't fight back. We could only defend ourselves and at that if they bruised themselves hitting us we stood to get into trouble. I always had remarkable rapport with my patients however a young man with both retardation, schizophrenia, and a hatred of women grabbed me from behind. I more or less covered up my eyes and ran away. Soon after the administration got us formal training in defensive moves and take downs. It was modeled after some form of Karate. Single handedly, myself, a 120#, 20 y/o female, could move in grab a wrist, move behind, stay in close, bring them to their knees, lay them down on their stomach, and hold their hands behind their back, while kneeling astride their ass. Two us us were entirely more efficient. We never used any more force than it took to get them subdued. The only time it was supposed to hurt is if they resisted, if they complied, it was painless. So I know this can be done. A Rodney King beating, the tazering of diabetic coma patients, and suffocating unconscience perpetrators is insane, let alone the suicide by cop that seems to happen around my town, about once a year. This world has gone bat-shit insane.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
13. Stifling dissent has become job #1 for far too many.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
15. If it weren't for Wilkerson, they might have killed that man.
Good god.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. No, he might have committed suicide in custody. (n/t)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. You're probably right.
I'm wondering if the charges weren't filed against this doctor to pre-empt a law suit. It's really stressful to deal with criminal charges. Tends to slow you down. :shrug:
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. When a university sues its own professor
for speaking out against brutality you know things are really out of control. (Evidently the author is not a UM prof, but UM is suing an Iranian history prof on similar charges.)

Didn't Ann Arbor used to have reputation for being left-wing?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Yep. And "things" are really out of control.
And, no political leader is objecting. We're in trouble.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
16. This is why I hate cops.
Hate. Not dislike, not distaste, not disagreement.

HATE!

To me, they're not human anymore. Literally inhuman.

They're animals with guns and badges and roid rage.

Expect me to sullenly tolerate you at best when you're in "Sir can I ask you a few questions" mode. Expect far worse if I ever see human rights violations in front of me.

I fucking hate pigs. There's no positive use for them in this society anymore - they're just vicious enforcers. Serve and protect my ass.
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Yavapai Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. ..And this is why I don't.
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 01:14 PM by FORREST GRUMP
Before I retired, I worked as a radio tech for a California Sheriffs Department for twenty years. I met and worked with many deputies for years. My experience was that just like in any job there are many really good people and a few real assholes.

Some serve with a mindset to be in a position to help people when they really need it and they put their own lives at risk each and every day, for us you and I. But inevitably there are a few with huge egos and are very authoritarian.

Officers after academy, have to work in the jail for a few years. There they deal with many really bad people each and every day. This jades and hardens them after they meet every conceivable con job possible. After a while they choose most of their friends from a pool of co-workers, who have a set point of view. After this indoctrination, they have a slightly different view of the world than most of us. They are more suspicious of people and their intentions; they are not inclined to let their guard down, ECT.

Many of the best people I have ever met were officers, and some of the most cynical, ill-equipped people have been police officers. They experience a very high suicide rate, an exceptional divorce rate. It takes a huge psychological toll in their lives.

One officer, Deputy Bruce Lee of the Riverside County Sheriffs Department was a shining example of just how good a person can be and a true hero. He was a very caring person. He had a great sense of humor and could easily laugh at himself as well. He went out of his way to help others. He was a great father and husband to his family. He was very active in his community. If this world were made up of Bruce Lee type of people this would truly be a wonderful place to be.

He was killed helping a distraught mother and father, whose psychotic son was trying to break into their home and terrorize them as he had done before. http://www.riversidesheriff.org/honor/moh/lee.htm

Hating all Police officers is the equivalent to hating all blacks, Latinos, gays, Democrats, Republicans, dumb-asses radio techs, or any other group. It just doesnt make sense.

PEACE :)
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
52. Thanks for the post. I teach at a school
that has a good criminal justice department, and I teach a lot of kids who go into police work and fire fighting and most of them are motivated by a real sense of civic duty. Sure, some are jerks, but not most whom I have known. A number of our men and women wind up in the NYPD and NYFD. To those who say it is like the 60s, I have to differ. I marched then and I march now. Big difference.

At the same time, I do think that the lawlessness of the current regime in Washington, the use of mercenaries, the "legalization" of torture and the complete assault on Civil Rights is creating a climate where lines are going to be blurred, where violations of civil rights are tolerated, where reprehensible actions are "accewptable." Bush has created a climate where cops can and will go too far. But, as with our military, and our educational system, and our country, it is simply one more institution that he has completely destroyed.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #52
131. Don't forget to mention....
The dieification of our "heros" by the MSM.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #131
133. Actually, I would tend to
agree that the deification - which is quite a good term for what the MSM did under the tutelage of the Bush administration - played a large part in what has since transpired, by, in effect, offering a kind of carte blanch, but it probably falls into the second part of my earlier comment.

To say that there are not a good number of cops who are authoritarian loons would be absurd. Yes, it is a profession that attracts a fair-to-middling number of fascists, and probably far higher than most occupations. Any occupation where you have a kind of authority over others is prone to that. It is also a profession where, by its nature, there is a higher level of covering up and group "loyalty." It is also a profession where the members should be given constant training, and more in psychology than in weaponry. The issue is, I think, if we are going to have a police force what kind of regulation and safety precautions regarding their stability ( continued or initial) can we, as citizens, demand. That's really my point. No rose colored glasses. No "heroes." No whitewash. No blanket condemnation.













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droidamus2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
66. Of course you are right
There are good cops and bad cops just like in any line of employment. The only thing I have to say is if the 'good' cops don't police their own and run the 'bad' cops off the job they are just as culpable as the 'bad' cops. If I am the driver in a robbery attempt and somebody is killed I am as guilty of murder as the person that pulled the trigger. If the 'good' cops stay silent or allow the bad cops to do the kinds of things noted at the start of this thread or worse then they are as guilty as the perpetrators. I don't hate all cops (my grandfather was one so was my brother) but I do fear any police officer until they show me they can be trusted (yes this comes from watching people since the '60's have dogs sent after them, battered with batons, run over by horses, beat, tasered, pepper sprayed, etc). Oh but of course if that was done to you you must be guilty of something :sarcasm:
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
84. this validates a belief i've held for years,
ever since rodney king:
"Officers after academy, have to work in the jail for a few years. There they deal with many really bad people each and every day. This jades and hardens them after they meet every conceivable con job possible. After a while they choose most of their friends from a pool of co-workers, who have a set point of view. After this indoctrination, they have a slightly different view of the world than most of us."

my theory is that police work should be like the military in that a person would go on to another career after about 5 years. too many career law enforcers end up as bad or worse than the bad guys they deal with. episodes like this really illustrate the sickness that can take over.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #84
111. Problem is that after five years
you don't have experienced cops

This is not an easy job... in fact it is one of the hardest,

Some folks should have never been given a badge, And they have, and that is the truth... a minority mind you.

Some folks go "bad" or "really bad" using quoatation marks for a reason, due to bad or really bad supervisors, and once they get a good but firm supervisor they find their rail and become good officers

And some folks should turn in their gun and badge after a few years, becuase they have been really damaged...

It all comes down to the quality of the department and the place to look for blame usually starts with the sergeants and goes all the way up to your chiefs. And I hate to say it... abuses by police do increase during RIGHT WING governments when the individuals who should have never joined the force, but did, and managed to maintain their cover, feel free and justified. They are a few... in any force. But they can become the symbil if they are in charge.

Why you need good sergeatns, good Field Training Officers, and the willingness to self examine your department at all times.
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #30
112. Bruce indeed was a king among men, from what you say.

... as are all policemen like him. But there can be no forgiveness for the other ones.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. It was no different in the 60s and 70s.
The U.S. was a police state then and it's a police state now. Except now they've got better weapons and it's easier for them to spy on you.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. Tell me we don't live in a police state.
This story is mind-numbingly horrible. Aggression and pain -- the new trademark of Amurika. Fuck!
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. Waiting for the inevitable post
You know, the one that tells us how people protesting this rogue government and its policies are only getting what they deserve, which is death at the hands of law enforcement officials. Too bad a doctor was there to watch the asphyxiation, poisoning and attempted murder of the man on the ground. Spoiled a perfectly good object lesson to anyone else who might be thinking of speaking freely or peacefully petitioning the government for redress.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
21. Seen a few of these incidents recently too.... Bad cops suck ass.
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 12:01 PM by DCKit
On edit:

No, I won't shut up. I've been harrassed, seen others harrassed and I'm pissed.

I was robbed on February 17th, in front of two DC cops. They threatened to take me in while the thief was running away with my wallet and ID.

Needless to say, I wasn't taken in and neither was he.
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. My 21 y/o son
was walking downtown about a year ago and some punk slugged him in the face as they walked past each other. My son, soon passed a couple of cops and told them what happened. They more or less had a 'what ever' response. It really made me sad and resentful of River City's finest.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. 4X recs for this shit.
Who the fuck empowered the "minors"?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. The people at the top set the tone
With thugs in the White House, the bad apples among the police feel empowered.
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. I think police in general have been emboldened by
Bush regime tactics. Our police force leaves a lot to be desired.
They refuse to be overseen by anyone and always protect their fellow rogue cops when necessary. I do not trust them and would hesitate to call them, unless I were desperate. And, this is not the deep South.I think this is happening all over the US.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. It's worse than that
University officials are condoning this shit.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
96. I agree. I am hesitant to involve any government in my life.
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
130. It's not only the Bush administration that has
empowered the police. This increase in the militarization of the police began during the "Drug Wars" and can probably be traced to the 1970s with the emergence of SWAT teams. In the 1980s the police were given more powers as drug gangs increased their influence in various communities.

First the cops turned many black communities into police states. White America said little as long as it only affected "those people" who live "there." Now the cops are taking those same policies out into the wider and whiter communities and guess what it people are finding out that it sucks.

Cops are there to protect private property and the interests of private property, not to protect people.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. Just like Carol Gotbaum.
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 12:57 PM by dailykoff
And they'd have called it another unfortunate suicide except this time they got caught.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
29. i feel sick. k and r. n/t
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trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R
Does the doctor or the protestors have a defense fund?
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
34. but, you know, we're not living in a police state, or anything.
nope. :eyes:
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
35. but, you know, we're not living in a police state, or anything.
nope. :eyes:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
36. THIS IS THE CASE!
I thank God the doctor saw this, and I hope, HOPE, HOPE!, that this doctor will keep up the fight on this subject of police brutality and medical ignorance of what they do to people ALL the time around this country. They abuse people sadistically. I hope he could speak of this before Congress some time next year.

Enough of this bullshit martial law behavior from these cops against the citizens.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
37. Kudos to this doctor: AND SHAME that IT DID HAPPEN HERE!
And where the Fugg is the "We will never forget crowd!!"

Looks like they pretty much forgot.
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Lord Wortherington Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. And people on this board wonder where they will get the manpower
to implement martial law. Look no further. wake up people!!!
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. this is truly terrifying n/t
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. Thisis what people get when police excesses are
tolerated. Bravo Dr. Catherine Wilkerson. Defend the oath you swore to deliver.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
44. Frightfully disgusting.
I signed.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
45. Is it fascism yet? This is not an isolated incident folks.
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Pierre.Suave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
46. holy crap
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 02:32 PM by jasonc
I cant imagine what was happening there.

I have had a few brushes with the AAPD at various protests while in Ann Arbor, but never anything like this, only verbal.

I was at an anti israel protest once, standing peacefully on the sidewalk holding a sign, when one tough israel supporter, standing BEHIND two Ann Arbor police officers said, "I think we should drop white phosphorous bombs on Palestine."

in shock I turned around to see who said that and noticed the little worm of a man hiding behind the police officers.

SO, me being me, spoke up and said, "Thats pretty tough talk from someone that has to hide behind two police officers."

After that the two police officers told me that I would have to leave or be arrested if I was going to continue to incite violence. I just shook my head and asked if they were aware of what the guy standing right behind them had said, they said they did not care and that I had to leave.

Luckily, it was all on film and there was a TON of witnesses around so they did not do anything but stand there until we left.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
47. Talk about Vindictive and Nasty (nt)
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
48. proud2Blib
proud2Blib

This is the same way it started in Germany, long before the Austrian-German Corporal Adolf Hitler was coming to power in the 1930s.. But then it was both the police, and a lot of right-wings groups, called Staalheim groups who behave the way.. And before NSDAP awas coming to power, police was verry involved with the right wing group and SA, the brownshirts of the NAZI-party was often to member of the german state police..

And we know what happend, from the history books what happend when both the police and the state in many ways was ONE. and there wiolence against the sivilians, specially the dissents was state politic...

But, in the 1930s, the wiolence was part of the broke down of sivilian law and justise, and after the Reichtag fire in 1933, the ordninary law was suspended, and was never recovered beofre long after WW2..

Today we se a steady, but allmoust silent way of erode the sivil Law, and justice in the United States. Bit by bit the law is tearing away, and the country is less democratic today, then it was 8 year ago.. As it looks like from the outside then..

To be honest, I am sad over what it happend in United States of America. But I am also glad my grandparents are not living today. They was verry pro-american, and allmoust emigrated there in the old days.. And they have been verry, verry afraid if this have happend in their living time...

This is terrible. I really hope that this amazing country can come clean, and all the "shit" what is happend today, wil be repaired, and stoped.. I really hope that your country can come back from the brink of a right wing dictatorship.. This is not positive, not good, in fact I really fear for your liberty.. If I am wrogn I wil be happy, but it looks like it can like the germany of the 1930s all over again. In the United States of America no less...
Americans take their freedom for granted.. And now it is not the case anymore..

I am afraid, really afraid.. What wil come if US is going down to facism.. We all know how hard it is to fight a facist state....

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
72. I am glad you understand
I am afraid too.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #72
92. proud2Blib
proud2Blib

I try my best ;). And this regime you have... Am at a los of words, in engelish, anyway to what I really feel.. I am afraid, for what US have become, and what it can come to stand for in the face of the world.. Once US stand for some verry good, some specially.. Today, I dont know what US stand for.. But the picture of what is to come is not pretty..

It started with some protestors, in germany in the 1920s-1930s, and ended in Consentrations camps.. And ultimaty in the Death Camps of the east.. I hope US are not to learn what Germany was learning, but I am afraid that many have not learn alot from history, and that both consentration camps and it like, is more than likely to come to reallity, if they are not stoped someway... The regime of Bush is bad for USA. and bad for the rest of the world.. And now you have a Atorny General who are not willing to define that Waterboarding is torture.. Scary world we are in indeed...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
49. Obviously for many it won't be fascism until their door is knocked down
in the early hours of the morning by the storm troopers. Then they will get it.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
50. Where the hell am I?
This kind of stuff doesn't happen in the country I remember.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
53. This is terrible - but police sadism is nothing new
May 9, 1970. Charles Oatman, a 16 year old learning-impaired boy was arrested by the police and thrown in jail. He was found beaten to death in his cell, covered with cigarette burns. His torture-murder was covered up by the police, who claimed that he had fallen and hit his head. Even the official autopsy hid the police's torture-murder. It took a second autopsy by the family to discover the truth, that he was bludgeoned to death after being tortured for fun. The black community in Augusta, Georgia was outraged and held a demonstration. The police confronted them and shot six of the demonstrators dead. It was a national disgrace and I remember attending a march through the city of Oakland to protest the police brutality and sadism. Sadly, the terrible incident of a doctor trying to prevent police brutality and being charged with a crime for his trouble by the police is the type of insane situation that has been going on in this country for a long time.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
54. kick
kick
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
57. Assaulting / resisting / obstructing?
Well...which is it? Assaulting, resisting, or obstructing? There's a big difference between the three...oh yeah, it's neither. This prosecutor is off his rocker.

K&R
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
58. Abuse of prosecutorial power to protect police and paramedics from lawsuit
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 05:04 PM by McCamy Taylor
The doctor is supposed to cut a deal, agree to not testify against the police and paramedics in the civil suits which you just know that the civilians whose civil rights were violated are going to file (and win, with the testimony of a physician) in exchange for them dropping the phony baloney charges.

This happens anytime a private citizen is about to become a witness against public officials. Remember that the police charged people who were simply bystanders at the school birthday party where the cake was dropped and the guard over reacted. They also filed charges against the mother of the expelled boy. They did this in order to use the charges as leverage to keep them from launching successful lawsuits.

This is an abuse of power, because the powers that be are scared shitless. The more bogus charges law enforcement begins handing out to the witnesses, the better your case is likely to be.

Sue the bastards for everything they have got!

Oh, and the doctor should report the paramedics to whatever board licenses them in her state. The standard of care which they delivered was abysmal.

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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
59. I suppose "police state" is too facile, trite and obvious, but...
.....honest to God, this is unbelievable. Isn't this exactly the kind of behaviour the United States used to condemn when it occurred in other countries? Or was it just when it happened in leftist countries?
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GenDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
61. I've been made aware of a police misconduct issue myself
Our Rethug County Legislator was a cop for a few short years. He is now our 2nd term town representative at the county level. I am on our county Democratic committee and learned through foil requests and from attorneys familiar with the case that this elected official (10 years ago, while a deputy with the Sheriffs office) unloaded an entire can of pepper spray on this disabled guy who's wife had been pulled over for a broken taillight. A broken taillight! As if that wasn't enough he then threw the disabled guy, who was wearing a visible back brace, through a door. He also drew his gun and threatened to shoot the guy. Like the case above -- the disabled victim of unauthorized police action was charged with two felonies and a couple of misdemeanors. A wise judge and the grand jury believed the victim and called the officer, essentially, a liar and dropped all the charges, otherwise this poor guy was facing up to 15 years in prison.

This leopard has not changed his spots -- he is a power abuser now as an elected official, just as he was when he wore a badge. He threatened to have our mayor arrested a couple weeks ago, and also threatened me with arrest on election day. The people in our district are not aware of this guys past record, and worse I don't know how many would care even if they knew.

I proudly signed this petition and sent it out to people on my email list. We have got to rise up and stop this crap.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #61
99. Can you give us his name?
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GenDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #99
117. I sent you his name in a PM n/t
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kelligesq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
62. Letters to the Chief of Police,Mayor, and University President of outrage might do more good
but I also notice this is on A. N.S.W.E.R's site.

Might be a good idea to google as much as you can about them, because although they do organize a lot
of protests, they are known to do some underhanded
things., such as not being truthful as to who they are to get people to participate - in once case a black church found out at the last minute that they were connected to what the Church considered to be unsavory political connections and attempted to back out at the last minute. It was a disaster. Also promises made to repay organizers for their telephone bills, expenses, etc and it never happened.

Some say its a communist organization, some say Lyndon La Rouche. who knows, but something is not on the up and up.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. A very good point! There are DUers in Ann Arbor and I'd like to see a follow-up.
I am also not comfortable dealing with A.N.S.W.E.R. My impression is that they take an anti-Zionist stance and a revolutionary attitude. (Not necessarily bad things.) I wouldn't call them mainstream, but they show up, and they organize, and they always have extra peace signs with their logo.

--IMM
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
73. I support ANSWER
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 06:39 PM by proud2Blib
They are working hard to end the war and put the brakes on this fascist regime running this country. And they are brave enough to speak out.

I also don't care if they are a communist organization. What difference does that make? Is it 1950 again?
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kelligesq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #73
102. Um , I believe the communist party is outlawed in the US, dont know if its been retracted. n/t
.
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OutNow Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #102
108. The Communist Party is perfectly legal
I have no idea where the idea came from that the Communist Party is outlawed, but I've heard it many times. Nonsense. You might want to see
http://www.cpusa.org / just to make sure.

BTW, the ANSWER group doesn't have any relationship to the Communist Party, but to another group.

I am not a member of the CP or ANSWER, but I have been a member of the ACLU for 31 years and will defend the right of political association to my last day on this earth.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #102
124. No it is not illegal
Good grief. It's 1950 again in your world!!
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #102
134. As a few other pointed out,
it was not illegal, even in the 1950s. I think the misconception comes from something we had that was, in some ways, more insidious: The HUAC - the House Un-American Activities Committee. "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party." That was the close to real fascism. Its purpose was to enforce a kind of group think, to get people to inform on each other. Groups like the Hollywood 10 went to jail rather than inform and name names. They were held in contempt and were blacklisted. A friend of mine had an uncle who was on the blacklist, though not entertainment related. That really was the power: blacklisting for even a hint of suspicion and the refusal to sacrifice others.

Part of the misconception also comes from the McCarran Act which required registration of communist organizations with the Attorney General. Truman vetoed it, but a democratic congress overrode the veto.

A great film about the times (though not a really great film) is The Front. I don't know if the credits will break your heart or make you cheer. It lists all of the members of cast and crew who were once blacklisted, from Zero Mostel to Martin Ritt to the crew members.

One of the funniest things I ever saw was when Bill Clinton awarded Pete Seeger the National Medal of Art at the Kennedy Center Clinton, and they did his biography and they sort of forgot to mention that he was blacklisted.

Basically, HUAC closed up shop after people like Abby Hoffman told them to, more or less, fuck off. Kind of hard to blacklist a Yippie.



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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
64. Thank you for trying to help. I feel confident that the court will accept
that a medical doctor in the situation should have been attended to about a medical procedure before anyone else. There are surely laws to that effect.
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kelligesq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. Hope the doc brings major lawsuit against all 3 antagonists...any judge
could not rule against a person vomiting into their windpipe and being told to get up while a knee in their back would not allow it.

Hope the doc makes a million off the bastisds
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
67. This is exactly why the cops don't like people videotaping them.

With cellphones or camcorders, for any reason. At demonstrations, or just out on the street. They have camcorders set up in their cars to protect themselves, but we cant tape them?

And now we have only the anecdotal evidence of two professors. Their word against the cops and the school?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. This is a move to protect the University, the Police & Fire Dept.
from Law Suits. Charging the Dr. is a move to deflect the violations of the others from
Criminal & Civil charges.
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kelligesq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. But she will have the credible testimony of the victims as long as they
have no records.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #69
86. What violations? It's against the law to point out that a protester is
having a medical problem, and that a paramedic is a moron?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #67
74. And exactly the reason I do take pictures of cops whenever I want to
We had a big march today and cops were everywhere. They took down the license plates of our cars. When they started giving tickets to people leaving our rally site, I walked right over and started taking pictures. And no, they didn't say a damn thing. But they did stop handing out tickets.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. Thank you so much. If you stopped one thuggish cop from
Harrassing people, it means something.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. We had a march here in September, like the one we had today
and there were a jillion cops there, like today. When the cops came to our gathering spot before the march, they said they hoped we understood they were there to protect us, not threaten us. I just smiled and thanked them for their help. Then at the end of the march, the same cop came over to talk to me and said he was glad there weren't any problems and I said of course not, we are peace activists, we don't stir up trouble. He asked me where I was from and I told him where I live, which is the same city where we were marching. So he said "But we don't know you" I said "Exactly. I just told you we aren't trouble makers."

The idea that a resident of his city needs to be "known" by this police dept still just makes my blood boil. I think he assumed I was some outside agitator who had come to stir up trouble in his community.

So it didn't surprise me in the least that the cops were writing down all of our license plate numbers today. Bastards. Serve and protect my ass.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #82
90. I'm from Chicago, the old Brainerd neighborhood
And in the sixties and early seventies, some of the cops were so sweet.

ON one huge march down State Street, the guy next to me said, "Gee, I wish I had a smoke," and the mounted police man trotted back to my line of marchers, leaned over, handed me his Marlboro package and said, "Could you please pass these over?"

I never understood exactly where the police thugs came from that were pummelling the protesters in the summer of 1968. The protests in all the following summers had well behaved cops. Some even would thank us for trying to end the war.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #90
100. I understand what you are saying. What caused...
this sudden transformation in the police forces? Any ideas?
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #100
135. The War On Drugs TM. N/T
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #74
87. And you should continue to do so, as should everyone.
I don't have a cellphone or a camcorder, but I swear if I did, I would be taping the cops.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #74
97. I call them teet suckers!
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roxnev Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
75. Americans said it was okay
when they elected an idiot for president. Republicans seem to have a hatred for any one they consider of a lower class. Just like Adolf and the Jews. If you doubt my word just listen to them when they start one of their Republican rants
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
77. Sad to say I'm not surprised by the thuggish behaviour
of the cops because as unacceptable as it is, screaming, tasering and other brutality is how they now act. However, I am very disgusted and perplexed by the actions of the paramedics. I worked in that profession for 15 years and no one I worked with would EVER act like that. I hope its an abberation and that the thugs have not infiltrated there too.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
78. Cops should be punished
and the Paramedic crew should loose their certificate, yes it is that simple

I know of the practice... using the ammonia inhalants was good practice twenty years ago... when it was believed they had a good effect

They stopped being good practice about fifteen years ago after extensive research.

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #78
103. my best friend told me about an ambulance he was in when he was
having a seizure, and the EMT had a balloon with sand in it to KNOCK OUT anyone that made him get annoyed too much in the ambulance, and my friend, had he not worn himself out from jerking around so much from his seizure, was going to get hit by it. The guy thought my friend was out, but he was just exhausted, and he heard the one EMT tell the other what he does, and he said he saw the younger EMT who was told, look at the other EMT like he was nuts.

Low intelligence, and by that I mean social/civil intelligence, are everywhere - they are teachers, police officers, and EMT's, just like they are cashiers, truck drivers and shut ins. Just because someone has a 'trusted' field of employment doesn't mean they're to be trusted, sadly.

I agree with your comment.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #103
109. If that EMT was my student
yes I was an instructor, and field training officer... he'd never would have received his certification.

There are ways to avoid people like that making it into the field.

Then again, I will NEVER do this in the states... these days my body can't do it... but still there are valid reasons why
I never did it in the states.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #103
136. sorry for my ignorance
but do emt's/paramedics have to take the hippocratic oath?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
79. THE BROWN SHIRTS ARE HERE...THE BROWN SHIRTS ARE HERE
What have we become???

When did we change???

Bush has changed America to this crap and its getting worse...

Auwe Auwe....nana e ka pilikea o ka aina

(cries of anguish) (look at the Troubles in our land)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
80. A lot of police officers were KKK or John Birchers . .. . way back . . .
Now they seem to have recruited people who reflect the most brutal and unethical and most ignorant --- and all of this -- combined with weapons like mace and rubber bullets --- are being used against "protestors" without any differentiation between protesters and violent protesters.

Soon we will completely use the right to protest ---

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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
83. Surreal. K&R nt
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bagrman Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
85. Did you touch any of the trash or just verbally advise?
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
88. Most cops are sociopaths. Period.
Many cops are given enormous power, when they themselves are ill equipped either due to constitutional or personality factors to wield such power expediously.

J
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. "Most cops"
I call bullshit.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #93
110. Second
problens like the one in the article stem directly from poor supervision and in this case extends to EMS and fire as well
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #110
126. Weren't those supervisors once beat cops as well? Cycle of sociopathy.
Cops, through their experiences, are forced to characterize and stereotype to reduce the "humanity" of those they arrest. Dehumanization (of even the objectively worst person) frees up average humans to perform the most inhumane of treatment.

J
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schrodinger_I Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #88
107. Not all cops are bad!
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 01:44 AM by schrodinger_I
You could say the same about the US military but you would be
wrong as well. There are a few bad apples that spoil the whole bunch.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
89. Jeeze. What everyone else said. 'What Have We Become' works. nt
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
91. K&R!
Just read my e-mail before coming here and signed the petition.
Sign petition! Both the police and paramedics were out of control. One ampoule of ammonia may wake up someone but 3 in a row can damage a person's sense of small.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
94. Were these cops trained by Blackwater?
Wayne Madsen at Rense.com has reported that Blackwater-trained police forces have much higher incidences of police brutality.

If so, you might consult an attorney to see if you have grounds for legal action against Blackwater as well as the cops.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
95. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #95
104. Your post is going to get deleted.
What you just said directly... I got a deleted post once a few months ago just for implying it.

But while it's still here to respond to, I'll just say... :thumbsup:

Peace on earth, but no peace between the oppressors and the oppressed.
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
106. the neocons are out of controll
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
113. Nazi Germany rising!!
Could this be how the Nazi movement started in Germany. A bit of brutality here, a bit there and the logical extension: ovens?

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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
115. Read the whole article - This is what happens when you openly oppose Israeli policy
What's next? Cambodia?
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
116. Holy flippin cow!
This is just aweful on so many levels!
:wtf:
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amb123 Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
118. SEIG HEIL! PRAISE JESUS! HAIL BUSH! THE FASCIST STATE IS HERE!
I am now in mourning. A Free and Democratic America is DEAD! I'm wondering, should I turm myself in to the authorities becaure I'm a Democrat or should I kill myself and get it over with?

:cry:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
119. Speechless.
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Red Zelda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
120. Has the corrupt M$M mentioned any of this?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
121. .
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
122. Similar thing happened here
In 2004, when Little Boots came to town, we got 1500 folks out to give him a special hello. After his motorcade zipped by us little people a girl stumbled into the street, no doubt thanks to the surge of the mob that was behind her. Anyhow, the minute she touched the pavement she was under arrest. A local lawyer stepped in to represent her and he was promptly arrested too. Things came to a relatively quick and painless end in this case but, just because of the assholishness of it all, hundreds of us wrote in the name of that lawyer on election day in the slot for county prosecutor. Our little way of telling the unchallenged for his seat prosecutor what we thought of him.

Julie
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #122
125. Good for you Julie!
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
123. Truly, that cries to Heaven for vengeance. Too many psychopathic myrmidons
Edited on Sun Nov-18-07 08:48 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
in positions of authority, let loose on your society. Shocking and shameful beyond words.
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Sam Ervin jret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
132. Wear it as a badge of honor! Put it on your professional card!
There should be no lack of professional witnesses to say that a doctor's orders ALWAYS supersedes ANY order given by a paramedic.

Those counties who hire those "medics" are trying to "cover their collective asses" because they know they are in for MEGA LAW SUITS.

With your "reputation" in question due to your "arrest" they can argue your opinion (medical) was not taken seriously. Logic and the sequence of events( give order about treatment, file complaint, face prosecution) will in short order stop this persecution.
In mean prosecution.

No. I was right the fist time.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
137. I will support good cops/firemen quite earnestly.
However, I would not be averse to having serious police brutality made a capital crime.

Here's an interesting legal question: In a state where you're justified in using deadly force to protect someone's life, does that statute even apply to protecting someone from potentially deadly police brutality like what happened to the skinny guy?
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