The "Millennials" are Coming

[Deja Q]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/60minutes/mai...

The workplace has become a psychological battlefield and the millennials have the upper hand, because they are tech savvy, ...

(SNIP)

"Some of them are the greatest generation. They're more hardworking. They have these tools to get things done," she explains. "They are enormously clever and resourceful. Some of the others are absolutely incorrigible. It's their way or the highway. The rest of us are old, redundant, should be retired. How dare we come in, anyone over 30. Not only can't be trusted, can't be counted upon to be, sort of, coherent."

(SNIP)

"You now have a generation coming into the workplace that has grown up with the expectation that they will automatically win, and they'll always be rewarded, even for just showing up," Crane says.

(SNIP)

"It's a perfect storm we have created to put these people in a position where they suddenly have to perform as professionals and haven’t been trained," Crane says.

Basic training, like how to eat with a knife and fork, or indeed how to work. Today, fewer and fewer middle class kids hold summer jobs because mowing lawns does not get you into Harvard.

(SNIP)

She maintains that while this generation has extraordinary technical skills, childhoods filled with trophies and adulation didn't prepare them for the cold realities of work.

Article has more.

All I have to say is, "Who raised these young impudent whipper-snappers?" That's right. The greedy baby-boomers who now see fit to say these kids are the cause of the nation's problems, despite the problems regarding "the decade of greed" starting before they were put into kindergarten!! I mean, the Millennials did not raid pension funds, screw up social security, offshore their futures with the claim they're too stupid (so why does the article claim they're savvy and intelligent?)...

Nor do I buy the rubbish argument that one should automatically be rewarded and given a VP salary just for showing up. Everybody starts at the bottom, but given the costs of college, the bottom can't even begin to support one's own life, never mind the loans that they still need to pay back! And, yeah, if a person can't do the job there comes a time when they need to be let go and start again. That's reality; but the article really seems to ramp up the extreme and claim it's normality.

I am not suggesting these "Millennials" are innocent at all. I am, however, saying the article is grossly myopic.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. To a writer of this kind of thing "tech savvy" means they might be

able to meet the challenge of plugging in a USB cord into the right hole without reading the directions.

[Deja Q]

4. Logical.

Most devices are made as "plug and play" nowadays...

[Mojorabbit]

2. I see a bit of this in my own

microcosm. When I was young my parents bought me an old beatup car but I had to work to buy my own insurance and gas money. I see my neices and nephews getting very nice cars and they do not work. They do have every gizmo that comes on the market bought by their parents. They really do not have any idea of the value of money related to the work to earn it. I know I can't extrapolate to the rest of the country what I am seeing but I do see it in my family.

[Deja Q]

5. Interesting...

My situation was the same as yours re: the car; I had to get my own gas and insurance and so on. My parents did the right things.

All I know is, a person - to be best qualified for a job - should get education in the fields they are most talented at. If a quality result is something businesses still want these days... Not everybody can be programmers, but on the flip side with all the reports of offshoring jobs, it is a valid response that anyone cognizant enough to notice the cost of education, cost of loans, wages paid by companies, there is just no ROI on the part of the student trying to find a job and live on his/her own when the day is done. The cost of living imbalance is why it's a goldmine for Indians, Chinese, name your country's citizens. Theirs is far lower than the United States' and that is the core problem that must be addressed if "globalization" means "the globe" and not "every patch of land except that one that looks like the United States, impotent wang known as Florida and all."

[Skittles]

9. y'all had it made

no way in f***ing hell would my parents ever have bought me a car - I got my first car at age 18 when I was an Airman in the Air Force

[Mojorabbit]

18. I don't know

that it is the same as when I was younger. A degree in those days pretty much meant you would find a good job. There were a also a lot of factory jobs that paid well enough to raise a family.That was before NAFTA.

I have a niece that I got the prepaid college program for years ago. She turned 18 and farted around in school and dropped a lot of her classes and never got her degree. Later she married and after having two children who are now in school,she is now using the program and is mature enough to appreciate the cost of education and is doing well in school.

A nephew, son of another sister dropped out of college and finally went to work. He is 25 and now back in school while living back at home and is working and attending the university. Now he also appreciates the costs of higher education and the cost of living.

I read an article that kids brains don't mature till around age 25. Maybe it takes some time for some of them to settle down and there is nothing wrong with that. There are certainly others that have the drive early and their eye on the goal. The wealthy way back when sent their children on a grand tour of europe in the day. A break before settling down and going to college. That would have been a wonderful way to expand one's horizons at the same time and a break from formal education.

Perhaps the way we do things in this country should change. Life should not be all about work. Look how europe has month long vacations. We have a skewed idea of life here. Until something is done about corporations having so much control I don't know that life will be much better for these kids. They have no bargaining power. We need more unions and we need a curb to globalization. Society crumbles when the population is not employed with a living wage.

[Deja Q]

19. We need corporations to put emphasis on the customer and not the shareholder

That's why quality is dropping. Cut corners to boost profits.

I believe unions are a 'necessary evil', and some of them are crooked too. What everybody needs to do is come to the proverbial table, reboot the system, and get back on track. Compromise and sacrifice is inevitable, but I'd do it for a prosperous tomorrow.

Plus, there is an old mantra: Life to work, not work to live. People need to enjoy what they do to some extent; even in creative fields, there has to be a focus and goal. If it became customer-oriented again, so many problems - especially anti-social ones - would be dramatically reduced.

At least, in theory.


As for the cost of living and cost of education; the cost of education has been said as being far more overbloated today than in previous years. Add in offshoring and the cost of living in those countries, and that makes America a difficult place TO compete in. Impossible, in fact. Not when one can replace one American with three ___ citizens, regardless of quality. Combined quantity is claimed to provide better results in the end. And it's not stopping those countries, as reported by the media, from building prosperous middle classes. So why is America being excluded from "globalization"? When will it be included again?

[AX10]

3. This article is very one sided. It seems to me that...

corporations just want another excuse to justify their outsourcing bullshit. How the hell is one to survive on a starts salary that is far behind the rate of inflation? I agree that someone out of college is not and should not start at the top, but as you said, given the cost of college and amount of time and effort, you should be willing to start somewhere respectable. I know someone who just got out of college with a 3.5 GPA, 2 internships and worked for 7 years as a cashier while going to school, yet he still can't find work to match his experience level.

[Deja Q]

7. Exactly.

Plenty of people responded similarly and it's absolutely correct. (Not to discount the POV mentioned in the article, which I think has some validity, but it is certainly not the whole issue. Not by a long shot.)

Experience level, the degree, and with the real cost of living, it is unfair for a job candidate to get a wage that barely covers necessities and can't even begin to cover the loan, which seems to be deemed a "luxury" as it's not food, water, nor housing. Most people I know of aren't looking for VP salaries... And they get paid quite a lot.

Which reminds me, all the blathering about being shiftless, I used to know some people at an insurance company. The executives' daily routines were essentially meetings combined with golf outings. Talk about coddled, entitlements, et cetera... and they're the ones blaming the Millennials for everything?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I have an MA and have not been able to find that either

and you know what? It is the economy stupid.

[Superman Returns]

6. good

maybe we'll be the generation that won't be our bosses' bitches.

[frankenforpres]

8. now that $$$ are gone

now that mommy and daddy cant use the house as an atm a lot of this bullshit is going to stop


need a vacation....take out equity


need money for school....take out equity



house needs repairs.....equity


nice new $50k car....equity


housing bubble over........evil bankers took advantage of me, chucky schumer jim cramer, benny bernake bail me out of here

[Blue_In_AK]

10. I have a "Millennial" daughter.

She is nothing at all like this -- despite the fact that I'm a "baby-boomer" parent. It's stupid to stereotype a whole generation in this way. I thought the story was ridiculous.

[Skittles]

11. I'm tired of these silly generalizations too

in my decades of work life I've never really seen the balance change - there are some workaholics, some slackers, but the vast majority put in a day's work for a day's pay - no matter what their age or f***ing "generation".

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Don't trust anybody over thirty

old people should be retired...

HMMMM where have I heard that before?

(and not directly by the way)

Damn that crisis is back.

[orleans]

15. (lsd in the water at the camps--a scene from wild in the streets...ala jagger) n/t

[orleans]

14. i watched the report on 60 minutes and expected the worst

but came away thinking "hummm"

these kids didn't come off so bad, in my opinion.

i thought the scenes of these kids in the workplace were amazing and wonderful

if this generation has the ability to create a working environment that is low-stress, pleasant, joyful even--how is that bad?

so they don't grow up right away. i don't see that as a bad thing either. if companies can adapt (and apparently they are) i think it is wonderful.

hell, the show made office work look so good that i figure in another ten years i might reconsider it.

[cuke]

16. You sound like an old fart. complaining about kids

It's more certain than death and taxes

[Deja Q]

17. Are you referring to the author or the news article?

Or myself?

[rockymountaindem]

20. As to this whole "starting at the bottom thing"

I don't disagree, but a big problem for us kids today is that starting at the bottom usually means taking some kind of unpaid, or barely paid, internship that doesn't allow you to subsist on your own. *That's* why so many people still rely on their parents after they get out of college today.

Even if it's not technically an internship, there are entry-level positions that don't come with any kind of job stability or regular pay. I have a friend with a journalism degree from a top university who has had to take an entry level newspaper writing job. Okay, you might say, that sounds normal. The problem for her is that the paper hasn't actually hired her, they're employing her as a freelancer who they only call when they have run out of staff writers to cover their needs. Therefore, she doesn't know when she's going to get work and has no idea of what she's going to get paid and when. Besides that, her pay per article is very small even though she spends hours on the phone for each article not to mention going on location and writing. So think of what we have here: someone who doesn't know from week to week how much work she's going to get, how much work she's going to have to actually do for each story, or what each story is going to be worth to her editors. As a result, not only is her income small, it's undependable, and her hours are impossible to determine from week to week. Therefore, it was hard for her to get a second job, which she finally attained at a coffee house. Why? Well, she needs a car for her newspaper job but in order to afford one she had to take the coffee house job. All the while, there's no way she could afford rent so she has to live at home. Some great situation for a graduate of a *top* school, eh?

What's most maddening is that even for entry level work at the big out-of-town newspapers where she applied, you need two years of experience. It is not uncommon for employers to demand prior experience for supposedly entry-level work these days. Well, how are we supposed to get the experience if nobody will ever hire us because we don't have experience? This Catch-22 has snagged several of my friends.

[Locrian]

21. working w/o a net

I agree. When I was young (Im 42) you were ABLE to find a job that would allow you to put yourself through college. I worked as a machinist - and paid my way. Does anyone THINK that is an option anymore? Heck there arent any jobs for EXPERIENCED workers let alone a dumb (me) college student.

When I got out (in the middle of the Regan dynasty) I could still find a decent entry level engineering degree with a BS. Now I wouldn't begin to look w/o a MS and possible PhD. Heck - I wouldnt even probably get INTO engineering anymore.

There shredding of the decent paying jobs is nearly complete. What everyone is seeing is the scramble for the last remaining crumbs of the economy.

[rockymountaindem]

22. It's a seriously bad scene out there for some of my friends

and it makes me really glad I'm in grad school now. I have no idea what I'd do out there on the job market with a BA in history. I'd be totally screwed. But for those of older generations who think we kids don't know how to do any work, they can look at my friend here who works 30+ hours a week makin' lattes and another 20 hours a week at least writing copy for the newspaper. And, *and*, she had to try really really hard just to get the coffee job. Apparently they expect people to know about coffee industry practices just to be able to serve the stuff and ring the register.

I have another friend who, like me, got his BA in history and has shipped off to Hollywood to try and make it in the entertainment industry. Of course, that's a whole other ball of wax, but every time we IM with each other he tells me about another three job leads he's trying to track down. The dude is busting his ass like even *I* can't believe and he's getting nowhere. He's had to take a job walking up and down the aisles at sporting events selling snacks and then he's lucky to get fifty bucks out of three or more hours of work. He got turned down for a *bartending* job for not having enough experience, even though he worked for our school's hospitality staff for FOUR years and poured drinks at events all the time. He found one job that's in his (our) field, working as some kind of researcher for a documentary company. Not only did he not get that job, but guess what they offered to pay him... food and transportation. They weren't going to give him any cash. Not one penny. They expected him to do this work so he can tell his next prospective employer or grad school that he has experience in the field. So, again, we're expected to work for nothing but a reference like we're some kind of 19th century scullery maids. It's total bullshit. They didn't even offer him minimum wage.

Edited to add: these same consultants like were on the CBS story say that my generation is going to be the first one in US history to be worse off than its parents. It's happening already...

[Writer]

23. I think that these are realities, however, that young workers must accept.

No, there are no reliable employers now. I'm 32, and I worked two UNPAID internships during college so that I'd acquire the skills I'd need after leaving college (this is back in the 90's, too, when there were plenty of jobs). That's just how it is. I did live with my mom for a year after college, but given the tiny salary my first job paid, I could not avoid it. But I got out of my mom's house literally within weeks of earning my first major increase.

So corporations are no longer loyal to their employees? I hate to say this, but that's a reality we all need to swallow, especially the youngest workers. My husband and I have already faced layoffs during our time in the workplace, and you know what? We adjusted and moved on. Sometimes you have to lose. Unless our entire economic system changes that's how it will be for a while. You can't "avoid" hardship by jumping from job to job - eventually that shark will bite your ass. Some younger people need to learn a little resilience, which I don't think is enforced as readily as it used to be. That old independent American drive to make one's own way has abated.

I used to work in the communications industry, and I HIGHLY recommend that your friend continue with her contract job. So it's not a permanent position - so what? She's acquiring the skills she needs to move on, and she certainly will. She needs to have patience with these matters. Trust me - the cake isn't always waiting for you in the oven. You have to work a bit to get that comfortable salary.

All the best to you and your friend,


~Writer~

[rockymountaindem]

25. Well the situation is what it is

She's got a plan all worked out to find permanent employment after about eight months of this current gig. That's not what I'm talking about. All I'm trying to say is that it's really bad for our superiors, as it were, to criticize us for living at home after we graduate, or for changing jobs frequently, or being lazy/unemployed. There seems to be some willful ignorance out there, and even here on DU, regarding the challenges of getting employment in this economy. Even if nothing else changes, getting rid of the holier-than-thou attitude that some older people with plenty of money and resources seem to have taken against people like my friends would be nice.

[Writer]

26. Well I think what you're facing is an expectation that a person endure initial hardships...

in the workplace instead of voicing dissatisfaction at the circumstances he or she may be in. Yes, it sucks, and finding work is hard but we have ALL been through that. It's an acceptance of the cards dealt to a person instead of tossing the cards aside and asking for a new hand. What I think they're saying is, essentially, is to keep plowing ahead, and your hard work and perseverance will get you somewhere. Maybe you'll encounter a road block, but you need to work around it. The 20's post-college are a VERY important stage in life - take advantage of those years to mold yourself into the person you want to be!

Again the best of luck to you,

~Writer~

[Locrian]

27. I hear you

It is really grim out there and getting worse. Blaming people for having to rely on others in a dysfunctional system. BOHICA (bend over here it comes again).

Whatever happened to the 4 day work week? Why do we "have to accept" a race to the bottom? It's the age old GREED that is driving a lot of this.

this will make a lot of sense:
http://www.thomhartmann.com/screwed/index.htm

and if your really want to take the blue pill (red pill?) go hear and learn about how the system is gamed to the wealthy:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-90504743625834...

http://www.themoneymasters.com/

[Writer]

24. For those of you taking PERSONAL offense to the article...

may I toss out the possibility that the article simply isn't about YOU? That it's referring to a general trend, developed from social research?

It's not all about YOU, k?


Hugs and kisses,

~Writer~

[Pithlet]

31. I don't think they take offense

I think they're just seeing it for the crap it is. I don't have kids this age, and I'm not this age myself, so I have no reason to take it personally. It's just the same old crap with a new name added to it. Millenials, Generation X, Generation Jones. Unless they're members of the elite, people plug along in their daily grind, just like they always have and like they always will. These articles assume that everyone has the same perspective as the upper middle class. Youth from the better classes have always been pampered and had things handed to them. That's nothing new. They take a few spoiled snots and act like everyone is like that and it's just this huge epidemic now.

[Writer]

33. Actually I think that's simplifying things as well, but in a different way.

Every generation has its trends that, based on the generation's exposure to history, creates certain cultural traits. Boomers have theirs, Gen X'ers a different set, and Millennials another set. Certainly I appreciate the point that this type of research focuses on the "haves" in our nation. However, not all of the pampering is material. Calling a teacher, for example, to speak on behalf of the student to demand that their child receive awards or grades does not require money. Poorer income brackets simply do not have the time to do this.

This is a general trend, and not everyone will fit this prototype. However I have heard educator after educator, who have taught children for a least two generations, complain of this. I had coffee with a professor friend of mine back in July who said that they have been having trouble with their younger DOCTORAL students complaining that they are being asked to do TOO MUCH WORK. This made my jaw drop. If anything, a person in a doctoral program should expect considerable work. This is an intelligent, open-minded, liberal man making this claim.

But to say that this is only concerning members of the "elite" is also a simplification. I have seen this behavior personally from young adults from many economic backgrounds. This is not only a statement of commercialism, but behavior.

But I do think some in here are taking this personally. I do recall being angry about the stereotypes of Gen X'ers, for instance, but the fact of the matter is that we ARE GENERALLY a disenchanted and apathetic bunch. We are cynical about social institutions and buck commercial pretense. That doesn't mean that I personally fit that profile, but I know many friends in their 30's that do. I work for a campaign at the moment, and to get any of them to volunteer or contribute money is futile. They simply shun the idea and think it's worthless.

[yardwork]

28. My kids are part of this so-called "Millenial" cohort. I'm impressed with this group.

My kids and their peers are far, far more open-minded than my generation was at their age. They don't just "tolerate" different people - they expect everyone to be an individual.

They aren't freaked about sexuality. Straight kids belong to Gay Straight Alliances. It's no big deal to them that such-and-so is gay or bi.

They don't make a big deal out of different ethnicities and cultures. Whereas my generation self-consciously "reached across" ethnic and cultural divides, my kids' generation expects everyone to get along together, hang together, eat together, date one another, marry one another, whatever.

They understand that the climate is changing and the Earth is in crisis.

I think that this generation has a huge, momentous change ahead of them. They will deal with climate change on a level we can't imagine. They will deal with worldwide pandemics, a crisis global shortage of water, and governments that are essentially run by multinational corporations.

Thank goodness they are technologically adept. They're going to need all the help they can get.

[Locrian]

29. my kid is 9

My kid is 9, and the biggest thing I am trying to give him is the ability to think for himself - the ability to use his own judgment and to question everything he sees/hears. The ability to adapt.

They will need to have the ability to not be a target for all the predators (corporate, gov, whatever). They will be the ones forced into the highest rate of "change" we have ever seen. They will be the ones stuck with the huge mess of the last 100 years.

[AX10]

30. I am counting on this generation to put...

an end to the extreme right wing. I am expecting them to shut off right wing hate radio. That is what will finally put an end to the shit that we hear from the freaks such as Limbaugh/Hannity/Savage/Koulter, etc...

[otherlander]

32. This is a silly thread.

It deserves a silly answer.

Here's a tapir: