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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:03 AM
Original message
Are ALL COMMUNICATIONS routed overseas to circumvent US law and the Constitution?
I was told years ago that ALL fiber optic communication traffic was routed overseas so that "everything" was moved outside the protections of the law and Constitution and ANYTHING could be monitored. I thought the idea quite fantastic even though it came from a very reliable source that would know exactly such things. Then, the story of the fiber optic splitters hit my radar. I now see now how easily exactly that, routing ALL COMMUNICATIONS overseas, was accomplished.

Is that Bush's and the Telecom's HUGE crime hidden and covered-up behind this story?

If the telecoms get immunity, will it aid in covering up Bush's crime.
ABSOLUTELY! That is why it is so important to the Rs! Support = obstruction of justice.

Have we arrived at the point in the history of the Bushco junta where
laws passed and people nominated are part of crimes of obstructing justice?

===================
AT&T Whistleblower: Telecom Immunity Is A Cover-Up
By Spencer Ackerman - Nov 7, 2007
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004662.php


Earlier today we flagged that Mark Klein, who uncovered a secret surveillance room run by the NSA while employed as a San Francisco-based technician for AT&T, is in Washington to lobby against granting retroactive legal immunity to telecommunications companies. In an interview this afternoon, Klein explained why he traveled all the way from San Francisco to lobby Senators about the issue: if the immunity provision passes, Americans may never know how extensive the surveillance program was -- or how deeply their privacy may have been invaded.

"The president has not presented this truthfully," said Klein, a 62-year old retiree. "He said it was about a few people making calls to the Mideast. But I know this physical equipment. It copies everything. There's no selection of anything, at all -- the splitter copies entire data streams from the internet, phone conversations, e-mail, web-browsing. Everything."

What Klein unearthed -- you can read it here -- points to a nearly unbounded surveillance program. Its very location in San Francisco suggests that the program was "massively domestic" in its focus, he said. "If they really meant what they say about only wanting international stuff, you wouldn't want it in San Francisco or Atlanta. You'd want to be closer to the border where the lines come in from the ocean so you pick up international calls. You only do it in San Francisco if you want domestic stuff. The location of this stuff contradicts their story .....

.......

.............
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think they bother with that.
They just suck everything domestic and foreign into their 3rd generation echelon system.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. How long have they been doing it?
Do we know?
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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. ECHELON
The system is called ECHELON, and had been rumored to be in development since 1947, the result of the UKUSA treaty signed by the governments of the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Here is the article that ran in the London Telegraph.


Tuesday 16 December 1997

Issue 936


Spies like US

A European Commission report warns that the United States has developed
an extensive network spying on European citizens and we should all be
worried. Simon Davies reports

Cooking up a charter for snooping

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/ECHEL...
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. We know that the echelon program goes back to at least the 90's
and that predecessor systems go back to at least the 80's. They have had a very long time to develop infrastructure and capabilities. Whatever we do know about, we can be sure that 50% of that is bullshit and that what is left is the tip of the iceberg.

For what it is worth: http://www.fas.org/irp/program/process/echelon.htm
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clmbohdem Donating Member (296 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. I worked for telecom carriers, so no.
It would too costly to route all traffic this way. Also, it would be too hard to keep such routing tables a secret. It would be much easier to monitor fiber, like AT&T's NSA secret room. Then you just set your sniffer to my IP address and you get it all: my email, my web traffic, my IM... The hard part would be to get Congress to grant immunity for this breaking of the law. You could of course use blackmail. If there was only some way to collect Congressman's emails, web traffic, IM....
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. You are making false assumptions.
There is more than one Internet. USG has its own stand-alone system, and that traffic is already secret.

The USG intelligence budget is massive, like $166 annually per person, so no problem there.

It is easy to make negative assertions like, "It can't be true because we don't know it is." Are you saying anyone who worked for the telecoms would know the details. If so, tell us where the splitter that copies everything leads to. Or, is it to easy to keep that a secret?
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. Huh?
"Its very location in San Francisco suggests that the program was "massively domestic" in its focus, he said. "If they really meant what they say about only wanting international stuff, you wouldn't want it in San Francisco or Atlanta. You'd want to be closer to the border where the lines come in from the ocean so you pick up international calls."

San Fran is next to the ocean. It's not like the fiber-optic cables have to be routed through Mexico or Canada--or you can do what most people do, and just recognize that the border is so many miles off-shore in the ocean.

Map for West Coast:
http://www.eyeball-series.org/cablew-eyeball.htm

Map for East Coast:
http://www.telegeography.com/products/map_cable/index.p...

Once the cable comes ashore, it feeds into local transmission lines and the messages routed. I have no idea where the routing happens. For all I know, they get routed from Bandon and Manchester through SanFran. If they do *not*, I'd expect a statement to that effect to rule out a completely plausible hypothesis that has to be ruled out to make his case.

Then there are satellite transmissions. If you want to intercept one of those, where do you do it? Are they routed directly through the satellite from, say, Barcelona to Sydney? Probably not. So they have to be switched somewhere ... but where? Now, many domestic calls are routed out of the US, simply because space isn't US territory. But it's hard to have surveillance equipment up there.

In any event, the claim for the FISA revision is nearly the opposite of your claim: A heck of a lot of international calls (non-US location to non-US location) are, it seems, routed through the US. There's the rub: FISA requires warrants for anything routed through US-based equipment. How the FISA judge could rule otherwise in 1/07 is a mystery to me, the law seems clear on that point.

I'm not sure that the guy's describing wiretapping, something like a pen-registry program/data-mining, or something that looks at text communications. In any event, if you want a specific message, whether snail mail or electronic, you have to look at all the messages in order to spot the one--esp. when it's all digital and comes in packets.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Overseas? No, the lag would be too high.
Via Canada or Mexico? Sure.

-Hoot
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. WRONGO! The splitters in the major telecom offices around the country duplicate ALL.
Also, we do not know precisely what happens to the duplicate optical transmission, but there is no effect on the original system or transmission. It continues on its normal route, but has been duplicated on a USG system, probably the military internet, and is transmitted somewhere. By overseas or offshore, the meaning is anywhere "outside US legal jurisdiction, somewhere where those reading John Kerry's 2004 e-mail and listening to his phone calls are not violating US law by doing so because US law does not apply there. That can be the Bahamas, Asia, or many other places.

There is more than adequate infrastructure to do this, no question there.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hmmm, I think there's some confusion here.
The thing that makes it 'legal' to capture the traffic is that it is routed outside of the US jurisdiction. Not the destination of the split stream, but the route of the packets delivered to the endpoints. From a technical standpoint it matters not if the stream is split in Peoria or Los Angeles, or San Francisco. If the packets that get delivered to the endpoints go outside of the US, then the telco can say with a straight face it is international traffic.

In all cases, delivering a copy of the stream offshore should be illegal.

-Hoot
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. That adds confusion. If they copy everything the international distinction is mute
This thread is making a distinct point, one not discussed in the MSM or by Klein (I believe). That point is that ALL domestic communications are copied at the splitter and---the point here---routed outside US jurisdiction SO THAT US law no longer applies to those storing and examining everything, ALL COMMUNICATIONS. They can even say with a straight face that they obey the law WHILE they read our e-mail or listen to phone calls.

There is confusion, or better said, lack of information. Noone has shown where the communications are routed after the splitters make a duplicate transmission of ALL TRAFFIC on the optical networks. My informant told me this is what happens, and with far more detail than I am revealing.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well,I have to agree that lack of hard info sows confusion...
In my mind, it wouldn't matter what happens to the split part of the stream. In other words the split part of the stream is moot when determining if the traffic is routed internationally. The delivered stream would be the determinate factor as to whether or not the stream can be declared international.

I'm not trying to make any statement about what they are actually doing, I'm trying to think of a legal justification for the practice.

-Hoot
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. To be international, either sender or recipient are non-USA persons.
If 2 people in the USA, say Kerry and Edwards in 2004, are phoning each other, routing there traffic overseas does not make that an international call. However, if a copy of the call is routed overseas to a location outside of US jurisdiction, it wouold not be a violation of US law to listen to it.

That's the point of splitting ALL communications and sending the copy outside the USA. To circumvent the law and the Constitution.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
37. So they should have the "missing" Rove e-mails.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. Klein didn't seem to say that. n/t
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. He discovered the splitters, not where the duplicate transmissions go.
This is the open question that remains undiscussed and, apparently, not yet understood on DU and in DC. I can understand DC keeping mute on this, state secrets and all, but the question is like a massive FISA black hole noone seems to acknowledge. Where does all that stuff go, where is it now, who has access to it, etc., etc.?

These are questions that must follow on Klien's disclosures!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. True. But his point that, for example, San Francisco was too far from the border
makes sense in both directions. If they were intending to route everything overseas to skirt the law, imho, they would have put the installation in a more cost effective place. But, maybe I'm giving these idiots too much credit. After all, it comes out of our wallets, not theirs.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The locations of the splitters has to be the telecom hubs regionally. Where it goes
from each of these is still unconfirmed info, ttbomk.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Hmm - they could "eavesdrop" the data the way they spy on foreign embassies etc.
Edited on Fri Nov-09-07 06:36 PM by bananas
Having the data go into one particular building makes it easy to just spy on that building.
The data doesn't have to be "sent" anywhere - they could just eavesdrop the data the way they do with foreign embassies etc.
Eavesdropping could be by satellite, airplane, or even a nearby building or van.

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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh and one other bit of more or less public knowledge.
The long standing arrangement between the UK. NZ, AUS and USA gets around the 'no domestic spying' restrictions through a simple quid pro quo information sharing arrangement. Each of the others spies on the 'foreigners' within the group and shares that information with the rest.

Just assume everything, and I do mean everything, is snarfed into a huge relational database.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-09-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. no, but doesn't israel have something to do with all telecom equipment?
which i'm sure is how congress gets blackmailed all the time.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
36. Converse Infosys
a.k.a. Verint
http://www.verint.com/corporate /

based on the last Proxy to shareholders, filed with the SEC in 2005, Verint was 58.7% owned by Converse Technology, Inc. http://www.comverse.com / http://www.cmvt.com/financial.htm

Comverse is the largest business unit of Comverse Technology, Inc. (CMVT.PK), a world leader in multimedia telecommunications applications.
Other Comverse Technology units include Verint Systems (VRNT.PK) and Ulticom, Inc. (ULCM.PK).

For more information about Comverse Technology, visit www.cmvt.com .


Background of Verint Board of Director Nominees and Executive Officers

Kobi Alexander has served as Chairman of the Board of Directors since February 1994. Mr. Alexander, a founder of Comverse Technology, has been a director and senior executive officer of Comverse Technology since its formation, serving in the capacities of Chairman of the Board of Directors since September 1986 and Chief Executive Officer since April 1987. Mr. Alexander also serves as director and Chairman of the Board of various other subsidiaries of Comverse Technology, including its other principal operating subsidiaries, Comverse, Inc. and Ulticom, Inc. (Ulticom). Mr. Alexander received a B.A., magna cum laude, in Economics from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 1977, and an M.B.A. in Finance from New York University in 1980.

Dan Bodner is President, Chief Executive Officer and a director of the Company. Mr. Bodner has served as the Companys President and/or Chief Executive Officer and as a director since February 1994. From 1991 to 1998, Mr. Bodner also served as President and Chief Executive Officer of Comverse Government Systems Corp., a former affiliate of the Company. Prior to such positions, from 1987 to 1991, Mr. Bodner held various management positions at Comverse Technology. Prior to joining Comverse Technology, Mr. Bodner was employed for two years as Director of Software Development for Contahal Ltd. From 1981 through 1985, Mr. Bodner served in the Israeli Defense Force in an engineering capacity. Mr. Bodner received a B.Sc., cum laude, in Electrical Engineering from the Technion, Israel Institute of Technology, in 1981 and a M.Sc., cum laude, in Telecommunications and Computer Science from Tel Aviv University in 1987.

Igal Nissim has served as Chief Financial Officer and has been a director of the Company since January 1999. Prior to that time, Mr. Nissim was employed by Comverse Technology since 1986, where he served as Chief Financial Officer from 1993 until 1998. Prior to this position, Mr. Nissim served as Chief Financial Officer of Efrat Future Technology Ltd. From 1984 to 1986, Mr. Nissim was employed by Gadot Industrial Enterprises Ltd. as deputy controller, responsible for financial and cost accounting. Mr. Nissim is a Certified Public Accountant in Israel and was employed for four years by Kesselman & Kesselman (now a member of PriceWaterhouseCoopers). Mr. Nissim received a B.A. in Economics and Accounting from the Tel Aviv University in 1981.

William F. Sorin has served as Secretary of the Company and as a director since January 1999. Mr. Sorin has served as a director and the Corporate Secretary of Comverse Technology since its formation in October 1984. Mr. Sorin is also a director of Ulticom. Mr. Sorin is an attorney engaged in private practice and is Senior General Counsel to Comverse Technology. Mr. Sorin received a B.A. from Trinity College in 1970 and a J.D., cum laude, from Harvard Law School in 1973.

Avi T. Aronovitz has been a director of the Company since November 2004. Mr. Aronovitz has served as Vice President of Finance of Comverse Technology since February 2005 and as Assistant Vice President of Finance since November 2002. Prior to joining Comverse Technology, Mr. Aronovitz was Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Miltex Inc. from 2001 through 2002. From 1999 through 2001, Mr. Aronovitz was at IDT Corporation, serving most recently as Vice President and Corporate Controller. From 1996 through 1999, Mr. Aronovitz was at Zurich Reinsurance (North America) Inc. (now Converium Reinsurance (North America) Inc.), serving most recently as a Director of Finance. Mr. Aronovitz worked in the audit and business advisory practice of Arthur Andersen LLP from 1990 through 1996. Mr. Aronovitz received a B.S. in Accounting in 1990 from the Sy Syms School of Business at Yeshiva University.

Paul D. Baker has been a director of the Company since May 2002. Mr. Baker also serves as Vice President, Corporate Marketing and Corporate Communications of Comverse Technology, a position he has held since joining Comverse Technology in April 1991. Mr. Baker is also a director of Ulticom. Mr. Baker held various positions in sales, marketing, and corporate communications with Robotic Vision Systems, Inc. from 1984 to 1991. Mr. Baker received a B.S. in Management from Babson College in 1980 and an M.B.A. in Marketing Management from St. Johns University in 1984.

Victor A. DeMarines has been a director of the Company since May 2002. In May, 2000, Mr. DeMarines retired from his position as President and Chief Executive Officer of MITRE Corporation, a nonprofit organization, which provides security solutions for the computer systems of the Department of Defense, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Internal Revenue Service and several organizations in the U.S. intelligence community. Mr. DeMarines currently serves on the board of trustees of MITRE. Mr. DeMarines has recently served as an advisor to the Department of Defense on matters concerning the transformation of the military. Mr. DeMarines is a member of an advisory group for the National Reconnaissance Office and is a member of the Massachusetts Business Roundtable. Mr. DeMarines served as a Presidential Executive with the Department of Transportation and is a Lieutenant (retired) of the U.S. Air Force. Mr. DeMarines holds a B.S. from Pennsylvania State University and a M.S. in Electrical Engineering from the Northeastern University.

David Kreinberg has been a director of the Company since January 1999. Mr. Kreinberg has served as Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Comverse Technology since September 2002. Previously, Mr. Kreinberg served as Comverse Technologys Vice President of Finance and Chief Financial Officer from May 1999, as Vice President of Finance and Treasurer from April 1996 and as Vice President of Financial Planning from April 1994. Mr. Kreinberg also served as the Chief Financial Officer of Ulticom from December 1999 until September 2001. Mr. Kreinberg is also a director of Ulticom. Mr. Kreinberg is a Certified Public Accountant, and prior to joining Comverse Technology he served as a senior manager at Deloitte & Touche LLP. Mr. Kreinberg received a B.S., summa cum laude, in Accounting from Yeshiva University in 1986 and an M.B.A. in Finance and International Business from Columbia Business School in 1990.

David T. Ledwell has been a director of the Company since May 2002. Since May 2003, Mr. Ledwell has served as Chief Strategic Officer of the Company. From September 1999 until May 2003, Mr. Ledwell served as the President and Chief Executive Officer of the Companys subsidiary, Loronix, Inc. (Loronix) (n/k/a Verint Video Solutions Inc.). Mr. Ledwell also served as a director of Loronix from September 1999 until July 2000. From 1986 to 1998, Mr. Ledwell served in various senior executive capacities at DH Technology, Inc., a company engaged in the development, marketing, sales and support of transaction and bar code printers and credit card readers. From 1995 to 1998, Mr. Ledwell served as Executive Vice President responsible for several of DH Technologys subsidiaries and divisions. Prior to 1986, Mr. Ledwell held various management positions with companies in the computer and electronics industries, including Texas Instruments and Datapoint Corporation. Mr. Ledwell holds a B.S. in Electrical Engineering from Colorado State University.

Kenneth A. Minihan has been a director of the Company since May 2002. Lieutenant General Minihan was a career U.S. Air Force officer who attained the rank of Lieutenant General and retired from the Air Force on June 1, 1999. Lieutenant General Minihan served as the 14th Director of the National Security Agency/Central Security Services and was the senior uniformed intelligence officer in the Department of Defense. Prior to this, Lieutenant General Minihan served as the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Lieutenant General Minihan is currently the President of the Security Affairs Support Association, is a member of several organizations, including the Air Force Association and the National Military Intelligence Association and consults and works on national security and intelligence committees and panels. Lieutenant General Minihan served as Chief Executive Officer of TeleHub Network Services Corporation from June 1999 to September 1999. In October 1999, after Lieutenant General Minihan was no longer affiliated with that company, TeleHub Network Services Corporation filed a voluntary petition for reorganization under the federal bankruptcy laws. Lieutenant General Minihan holds a B.A. from Florida State University, an M.A. from the Naval Postgraduate School, and has completed executive development programs at the University of Illinois and Harvard University. Lieutenant General Minihan was awarded the National Security Medal, the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, the Bronze Star and the National Intelligence Distinguished Service Medal, among other awards and decorations.

Larry Myers has been a director of the Company since August 2003. Since November 1999, Mr. Myers has been retired from his position of Senior Vice President, Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer of MITRE Corporation, a nonprofit organization which provides security solutions for the computer systems of the Department of Defense, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Internal Revenue Service and several organizations in the U.S. intelligence community. Mr. Myers served in this capacity with MITRE Corporation since 1991. Mr. Myers received a B.S. from Saint Vincent College in 1960 and an M.B.A. from Ohio State University in 1962. Mr. Myers served in the U.S. Army from 1962 to 1964.

Paul L. Robinson has been a director of the Company since May 2002. Since January 2003, Mr. Robinson has served as General Counsel of Comverse Technology. From January 1999 to January 2003, Mr. Robinson served as Associate General Counsel of Comverse Technology. Prior to joining Comverse Technology, Mr. Robinson was an associate attorney at Kramer, Levin, Naftalis & Frankel, LLP from January 1998 to December 1998. From January 1997 to December 1997, Mr. Robinson served as counsel to the United States Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs with respect to its special investigation into illegal and improper campaign fund raising activities during the 1996 federal election. From June 1994 to January 1997, Mr. Robinson was an associate attorney at Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP. Mr. Robinson received a B.A. in Political Science and was Phi Beta Kappa from the State University of New York at Binghamton in 1989 and a J.D., cum laude, from Boston University School of Law in 1992.

Howard Safir has been a director of the Company since May 2002. Mr. Safir is the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of SafirRosetti, Omnicom Group Inc., a premier company providing security and investigation services. Mr. Safir also serves as consultant to ChoicePoint, a leading provider of credential verification and identification services. Prior to these positions, Mr. Safir served as Vice Chairman of IPSA International, a company providing security and investigation services, and prior to that as the 39th Police Commissioner of the City of New York. Mr. Safir also served as Associate Director for Operations, U.S. Marshals Service, as Assistant Director of the Drug Enforcement Administration and as Chief of the Witness Security Division, U.S. Marshals Service. Mr. Safir holds a B.A. in History and Political Science from Hofstra University. Mr. Safir participated in several programs at Harvard Universitys John F. Kennedy School of Government. Mr. Safir was awarded the Ellis Island Medal of Honor among other citations and awards.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=131043&p=ir...

re http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

from Faux sNooze of all sources:
"It turns out that Israel has had a potential wiretap on every phone in America for years"
http://100777.com/usa/israeli_spyring
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.ht...

aside from that ... fwiw ... an Israeli company bought out Spacenet's satellite communication network business c. 1999 ... Spacenet and Sprint were created when former GTE merged with Southern Pacific (the railroad biz w/cable routes via its railroad tracks) in 1984. GTE Sprint was the long-distance carrier, and GTE Spacenet launched satellites with a continental US (CONUS) footprint; and, offered satellite communication networks to many companies, as well as the Secret Service. Spacenet eventually merged with Contel; and, later was bought-out by GE. GE, basically, took what it wanted, the satellites; and, Gilat, the Israeli supplier of the satellite 1.8 meter (VSAT) dishes and other telecommunications network equipment to Spacenet, took over the network business located in McLean, VA, with headquarters and manufacturing in Israel.

http://www.spacenet.com/about/history /

From the history, Gilat acquired StarBand in 2005.StarBand offers internet access by satellite.

http://www.spacenet.com/services /

http://www.spacenet.com/about/company /


of course, I've wondered what roll Global Crossing might have played in setting up the gestapo infrastructure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Crossing

http://www.hereinreality.com/news/axis.html

and, of course, one never knows what role Microsoft might play

MSN and Gilat Satellite Networks Introduce First Consumer Two-Way Satellite High-Speed Internet Access Service
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2000/Feb00/Gil...

Microsoft Will Invest $50 Million In A Joint Venture With Gilat Satellite Company Of Israel
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4803/is_200002/...

EchoStar Takes Stake in Gilat Satellite Internet Access
http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/337421

Gilat-To-Home is a joint broadband venture whose partners include EchoStar, Gilat Satellite Networks Ltd. and Microsoft.

Qualcomm could always play a role.
Joint Venture Company Backed by Nine Leading Wireless Carriers
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1998/Nov98/Qua...


There's just so much going on out of view of what most people know.


Converse Technology Board of Directors
http://www.cmvt.com/financial.htm

the MITRE connection is curious ... as are the connections to the gov't intelligence via Board members

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MITRE

Disclaimer: poster is not an engineer or technical expert nor plays one on TV
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. thanks
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. NSA Monitors All Web Traffic, Says Ex-AT&T Employee
NSA Monitors All Web Traffic, Says Ex-AT&T Employee
Tom Corelis (Blog) - Nov 10, 2007
http://www.dailytech.com/NSA+Monitors+All+Web+Traffic+S...


Felt "forced to the connect the Big Brother Machine" if he wanted to keep his job

Mark Klein, the former AT&T technician and whistleblower who helped kick off the AT&T/NSA eavesdropping scandal, clarified further details regarding what he witnessed while connecting a secret NSA eavesdropping facility: secure room 641A in AT&Ts San Francisco switching center, presumably commissioned by the NSA, received copies of all the traffic its splitters were connected to, including both international and domestic e-mails, web traffic, and phone calls, both from AT&Ts customers as well as other providers.

Previous statements by the government, AT&T and President Bush indicated that the only affected communications are communications relevant to national security, like those of suspected terrorists and suspicious foreign nationals. According to Klein, however, the technology used to connect the secure room was far more democratic, consisting of simple, dumb splitters incapable of any kind of contextual filtering: essentially, room 641A received a duplicate of every fiber-optic signal routed through facilities.

Klein, appearing on MSNBCs Countdown with Keith Olbermann show, told viewers about his personal association with secure room 641A. When I was a technician, I had the engineering/wiring documents, which told me how the splitter was wired to the secret room I had to know in order to do my job, he said, so I know that whatever went across those cables was copied; the entire datastream was copied into the secret room.

Referring to the equipment itself, Klein states, the splitter device has no selective capability, it just copies everything. .............
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. AT&T Whistleblower Mark Klein On Olbermann
AT&T Whistleblower Mark Klein On Olbermann
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. VIDEO: Domestic Spying Story: Mark Klein on Washington Journal
Domestic Spying Story: Mark Klein on Washington Journal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. VIDEO: ABC News: AT&T Whistle-blower - NSA Internet spying
ABC News: AT&T Whistle-blower - NSA Internet spying
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
22. VIDEO: NSA Pressured LA Times To Kill Domestic Spying Story
NSA Pressured LA Times To Kill Domestic Spying Story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
25. Well, a lot of them are beamed into space too...
I don't know the legalities of it all.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
26. Bingo n/t
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
28. VIDEO: How Many Illegal Wiretapping Programs Does Bush Have?
Edited on Sat Nov-10-07 02:35 PM by L. Coyote
How Many Illegal Wiretapping Programs Does Bush Have?
VIDEO: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. Wiretapping Immunity (Again)
November 9, 2007
Wiretapping Immunity (Again)
http://sfist.com/2007/11/09/image_eff_the_s.php



The secret room at AT&T's Folsom Street facility is in the news again. Staffers from the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation are in DC this week and next, trying to convince Congress that telecoms shouldn't be given retroactive immunity for their cooperation with the NSA's secret (and illegal? or illegal-ish?) wiretapping programs.

Picture%201.pngMark Klein, the AT&T technician who spotted the NSA's wiretapping room in the AT&T building and blew the whistle, is with the EFF crusaders in Washington, telling Congresspeople that the phone companies "committed a massive violation not only of the law but of the Constitution" (NY Times).

Our own Di-Fi disagrees, according to a story in the Chronicle today. She says the telecoms shouldn't be "dragged through the courts" when the Bush Administration is really to blame.

Hmm, well... Di-Fi and giant corporation on one side, crack team of dashing EFFers on the other... we say, "Go EFF!" (and "Hello, government surveillance types who are watching us right now").
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. Nov. 5: AT&T Whistleblower to Urge Senate to Reject Blanket Immunity for Telecoms
November 5th, 2007
AT&T Whistleblower to Urge Senate to Reject Blanket Immunity for Telecoms
Press Conference on Capitol Hill on Wednesday, November 7
http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2007/11/05

Washington, D.C. - On Wednesday, November 7, at 10:30am, telecommunications technician and AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein will speak out at a press conference on Capitol Hill, explaining why he is asking lawmakers to reject immunity for telecoms who assisted the Bush administration's spying on millions of Americans.

Klein witnessed first-hand the technology AT&T built to assist the government's domestic warrantless wiretapping program at AT&T's main switching facility in San Francisco. As part of his job at AT&T, Klein connected high-speed fiber optic cables to sophisticated equipment that intercepted communications from AT&T customers and then copied and routed every single one to a room controlled by the National Security Agency (NSA). Klein has provided evidence for the Electronic Frontier Foundation's (EFF's) class-action lawsuit against AT&T for its role in the illegal spying.

"My job required me to enable the physical connections between AT&T customers' Internet communications and the NSA's illegal, wholesale copying machine for domestic emails, Internet phone conversations, web surfing and all other Internet traffic. I have first-hand knowledge of the clandestine collaboration between one giant telecommunications company, AT&T, and the National Security Agency to facilitate the most comprehensive illegal domestic spying program in history," said Klein.

Also speaking at the event Wednesday ...........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
31. Judge Orders Telecommunications Companies to Preserve Evidence
Press Releases: Nov 6th, 2007
Judge Orders Telecommunications Companies to Preserve Evidence in Government Surveillance Cases
Ruling Advances EFF's Class-action Lawsuit Against AT&T
http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2007/11/06


San Francisco - A federal judge today ruled on a preservation motion filed by the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), ordering that telecommunications companies must preserve any evidence of collaborating with the government in illegal spying on ordinary Americans.

In his ruling, U.S. District Court Judge Vaughn Walker ordered the telecommunications companies to halt any routine destruction of documents or to arrange for the preservation of accurate copies. On December 14, each party must provide the court with confirmation that the court's order has been carried out. The court order did not require the government or the carriers to reveal whether or not they had any relevant evidence.

The government and the carriers had opposed the preservation motion, claiming that the government's invocation of the state secrets privilege made it impossible to proceed with a preservation order. In litigation, parties are typically required to preserve all relevant evidence.

For the judge's order:
http://www.eff.org/files/filenode/att/393%20order.pdf

For more on the class-action lawsuit against AT&T:
http://www.eff.org/cases/att

Contacts:

Kurt Opsahl
Senior Staff Attorney
Electronic Frontier Foundation
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
32.  Press Releases: Illegal Government Surveillance Opens Door to More Privacy Violations
Press Releases: October 12th, 2007
Illegal Government Surveillance Opens Door to More Privacy Violations
EFF Tells Congress About Hidden Costs of Dragnet Spying
http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2007/10/12


San Francisco - The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) told a congressional committee today that the government's illegal dragnet electronic surveillance opens the door to even more privacy violations for ordinary Americans.

The sheer volume of personal information collected and the databases in which that information is stored create a giant target for attackers who want to steal or expose Americans' personal data. In a response to questions asked of EFF by the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, EFF Legal Director Cindy Cohn explained in comments submitted Friday that an increase in the number of databases introduces more points of vulnerability into the system, putting sensitive personal information from millions of people at risk.

"We have all heard about security problems with government databases. A report from the Department of Homeland Security found 477 breaches in 2006 alone," said Cohn. "The warrantless domestic surveillance going on now isn't just illegal -- it could expose your personal information to thieves and criminals."

The committee asked EFF for input as part of its review of the Protect America Act, deeply flawed legislation that broadly expanded the National Security Agency's authority to spy on Americans without warrants. Next week, the House is set to vote on the RESTORE Act, a bill designed restore the civil liberties lost under the previous law.

Since the committee had also sent a list of key questions to AT&T and the other major telecommunications firms about their involvement in illegal surveillance activities, EFF provided the committee information about the Hepting v. AT&T lawsuit. EFF represents the plaintiffs in this class-action lawsuit brought by AT&T customers, accusing the telecommunications company of violating their rights by illegally assisting the NSA's domestic surveillance. The Hepting case is just one of many suits aimed at holding telecoms responsible for knowingly violating federal privacy laws with warrantless wiretapping and the illegal transfer of vast amounts of personal data to the government.

EFF also provided the committee with a legal analysis of the use of so-called "exigent letters" by the government to obtain information about Americans and about their "communities of interest," two topics also raised by the committee in its letters to the telecommunications carriers. EFF's Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) work uncovered this illegal broadening of surveillance authority.

"We're pleased that the committee is interested in obtaining answers from the leading telecommunications carriers about whether they have been following the privacy laws protecting their customers' communications. Congressional oversight of the telecommunications companies' activities is long overdue," said Cohn.

For EFF's full comments to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce:
http://eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/FISA/committee_lett...

For more on the class-action lawsuit against AT&T:
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att

Contact:

Cindy Cohn
Legal Director
Electronic Frontier Foundation
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-10-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. AT&T Class Action Lawsuit Against AT&T for Collaboration with the NSA's Illegal Dragnet Surveillance
AT&T Class Action - http://www.eff.org/cases/att

EFF filed a class-action lawsuit against AT&T accusing the telecom giant of violating the law and the privacy of its customers by collaborating with the NSA in its massive, illegal program to wiretap and data-mine Americans' communications


EFF's Class Action Lawsuit Against AT&T for Collaboration with the NSA's Illegal Dragnet Surveillance

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed a class-action lawsuit against AT&T on January 31, 2006, accusing the telecom giant of violating the law and the privacy of its customers by collaborating with the National Security Agency (NSA) in its massive, illegal program to wiretap and data-mine Americans' communications. On July 20, 2006, a federal judge denied the government's and AT&T's motions to dismiss the case, chiefly on the ground of the States Secrets Privilege, allowing the lawsuit to go forward. On August 15, 2007, the case was heard by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

The EFF lawsuit arose from news reports in December 2005, which first revealed that the NSA has been intercepting Americans' phone calls and Internet communications without any court oversight and in violation of the privacy safeguards established by Congress and the U.S. Constitution. This surveillance program, purportedly authorized by the President at least as early as 2001, intercepts and analyzes the phone and Internet communications of millions of ordinary Americans.

But the government did not actand is not actingalone. EFF's lawsuit alleges that AT&T hasgiven the NSA unchecked backdoor access to its communications network and its record databases. On behalf of a nationwide class of AT&T customers, EFF is suing to stop this illegal conduct and hold AT&T responsible for violating the law and the fundamental freedoms of the American public.

EFF's case includes undisputed evidence that AT&T installed a fiberoptic splitter .....
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
34. VIDEO: Interview: AT&T Mark Klein on Bush's Illegal Surveillance and Retroactive Immunity
Interview: AT&T Whistleblower Mark Klein on Bush's Illegal Surveillance and Retroactive Immunity
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-11-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
35. The NSA had access to 15-20 AT&T sites in the USA = Spying on the Homefront
PBS FRONTLINE: Spying on the Homefront
Get the story on Frontline: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront /

PART THREE The NSA's Eavesdropping at AT&T
The agency gets access to an estimated 15-20 AT&T sites across the U.S., data mining phone and Internet communications to find potential terrorists.

WATCH ONLINE: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/view /
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
39. Outrageous --- and WHY isn't Congress stopping the "signing statements" . .. ???
CONGRESS is responsible for assuring that all legislation is carried out in the manner intended by Congress --- including spirit and intent ---!!!


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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. Sen. RUSSELL FEINGOLD: FISA and America's Basic Freedoms
FISA and America's Basic Freedoms
Let's Not Repeat the Mistakes of the Patriot Act
By Sen. RUSSELL FEINGOLD
http://www.counterpunch.org/feingold11082007.html


I sit on the Intelligence Committee, and there is no question that some of that committee's work must be conducted behind closed doors due to the sensitive nature of the information it handles on a regular basis. But it would have been far preferable if the Intelligence Committee had considered its FISA legislation in a more open process. As it drafted its bill, that Committee would have benefited from the input of a wide variety of experts. But those experts, who have quite a different point of view on the issues raised by this bill than the Administration, were not able to comment on it before the committee marked the bill up.

So I am particularly glad that the Judiciary Committee is holding this open markup, and that it has held open hearings on these issues. The public should have the ability to see what we are doing on this very important issue. In addition, this committee's expertise in privacy and civil liberties, and FISA, is crucial to this debate.

This committee's consideration is also important because the bill reported by the Intelligence Committee, which Senator Wyden and I voted against, is badly flawed. Given the promises that were made after the rushed consideration of the Protect America Act last summer, I was very disappointed that the bill reported by the Intelligence Committee did not do more to protect the privacy of law-abiding Americans.

As the members of this committee are well aware, before leaving town for the August recess, Congress bowed to pressure from the administration by vastly expanding the government's ability to eavesdrop without a court-approved warrant. ....
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Feingold Will Try to Strip Telecom Immunity from Surveillance Bill
Feingold Will Try to Strip Telecom Immunity from Surveillance Bill
By Spencer Ackerman - Nov 14, 2007
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004710.php


Tomorrow morning is the long-awaited mark-up (http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004665.php ) of the surveillance bill in the Senate Judiciary Committee. And Russ Feingold (D-WI), who voted against the bill in the intelligence committee, is going to redouble his efforts to rid the bill of its provision granting retroactive legal immunity to telecommunications companies that complied with the Bush administration's warrantless surveillance program. From a statement, via ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-a... /):

Granting retroactive immunity for companies that allegedly went along with this illegal program is unjustified and undermines the rule of law. Not only would retroactive immunity set the terrible precedent that breaking the law is permissible and companies need not worry about the privacy of their customers, but it would likely prevent courts from ruling on the Presidents illegal warrantless wiretapping program. This program was one of the worst abuses of executive power in our history, and the courts should be able to rule on it once and for all.

Recently, AT&T whistleblower technician Mark Klein said the provision was a cover-up, ......
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
42. ALERT: Tell them NO IMMUNITY = Senate and House Moving on Spying Bills
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