For DU Moderators. If Hillary gets the nomination, will the Hillary bashing stop?

[johncoby2]

It is bad enough that we have the rabid right wing attacking our candidates for President, but to come to DU and have Democrats bashing Democrats is another thing.

Opposition is great for DU, but there are those who take the stand of "If you are not against Hillary, you are against us" and it is wearing thin.

I don't see that much disrespect for Edwards or Obama.

So, if she gets the nomination, will DU continue to be for Democrats? Or for Democrat haters?

[ThomWV]

1. Yes, the bashing will stop. Most of us will simply go away.

I have finally come to the conclusion that I absolutely will not vote for her under any circumstance.

[johncoby2]

3. SUPER!

[Tesha]

11. ...The downside is that many of us are taking our votes with us and you'll miss us when we're gone.

(NT)

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EV_Ares]

19. LOL, take a look at the Hillary supporters here on this post. This post

is nothing but a bunch of whining. Looks like her supporters are just like her when criticism pops up, they pull out the "poor me" whining card. No, nobody should have to leave, supporters of Obama, Clinton, Kucinich or others have as much right to their candidate as you do.

[NavyDavy]

29. we are talking about after the nomination....you can support

whomever you wish but once we have our candidate we have one job and that is get the nominee elected whether Clinton, Obama, Edwards even Kucinich(sp)

[EV_Ares]

31. Can agree with that. Maybe you are talking about after the nomination

but some of the other Hillary supporters are doing nothing but calling people names, attacking now just for anything negative being said, etc.

As far as myself, she is not my choice for the Dem banner and that is my right. I sent money to her senate campaign when she first ran in NY and I still believe she was the best choice for that job. She has proven to be hard working, certainly intelligent and I would have no problem with supporting her and working in a grassroots status to help her win against the republicans.

I personally think her answer about the immigration issue (NY Gov allowing immigrants drivers license) was a good answer and it has gotten completely blown out of proportion. She answered it right but I think people were just looking for something to attack her on and I hope she gets a shot at Tim Russert someday because he always goes after her in debates like he did in her senate campaign in NY.

I do not agree with her on Iraq or Iran and some other issues but none of us will find the perfect candidate.

[ronnykmarshall]

52. Bullshit.

I've been told that I "should be ashamed" and told "to hell with Hillary and her supporters".

Yeah, the supporters of the other candidates are SO kind.

[EV_Ares]

75. So; look at what Hillary supporters are doing such as this whining

thread; oh poor us. Look where they have had to delete a post where the Hillary supporter was calling one of the others trying to make a point names.

So don't come crying to us. Can't vouch for what you said, no reason to doubt you but from what I have seen is the Hillary supporters tried to shut down anybody who criticized her, anybody that tried to support another candidate and the only thing it looks like it is getting them is more resistance.

[ronnykmarshall]

82. Again ..

Ah fuck it.

This place isn't worth it anymore.

[EV_Ares]

90. LOL, yeah thats the attitude., eom.

[Clark2008]

78. Or take a hiatus from posting here until she loses.

:shrug:

[michreject]

25. When you control the board

Ban us. Until then ...............stuff it.

Gore for 4 more.

[Tesha]

32. There's still time to *AVOID THE DISASTER* by not nominating Clinton; that's why we're still here.NT

[Cruzan]

18. And maybe vote for Nader or whoever the '08 'progressive' third party candidate is

and split off enough of the vote to let the Republicans still another one. Sound familiar? I guess as long as your conscience is clear...

[Tesha]

33. So nominate a candidate that won't appall the left. Otherwise, you'll get what you deserve in the...

So nominate a candidate that won't appall the left. Otherwise,
you'll get what you deserve in the General Election; After 2006
(and *ESPECIALLY considering the 2006 Connecticut Senatorial
race where the right wing Democrats abandoned the Democratic
nominee in droves), I'm done holding my nose and voting for
candidates who suck just because they happen to have a "D"
after their names.

I'll now only vote for candidates who meet certain minimum
standards such as being willing to uphold the Constitution.

Tesha

[NavyDavy]

49. well the repukes help get lieberman elected not just the so

called right leaning dems....

[bpeale]

59. and look where that connecticut debacle got us

[Tesha]

64. Yes, when all the right-wing "You must vote for the Democrat!" Democrats defected to the Independent

*THAT* is what taught me that I no longer need to hold
my nose and vote for right wing (enabling) assholes
running as Democrats.

When the cards fell in favor of the lefty, the righties
defected.

Tesha

[NavyDavy]

26. no not really

[Tesha]

34. We'll talk again after Hillary blows the general Election....

We'll talk again after Hillary blows the general Election
and we'll see if you missed our votes then. Likely you'll
be whining then about "how could the left have abandoned
us???"

Tesha

[NavyDavy]

47. we didn't abandon you you abandoned us....we are not the ones

crying because we don't agree with all the things you want....

[aquart]

6. So the choice of the Democratic majority ...

Is only democratic if it's YOUR choice. What other people want is of supreme indifference. Which is perfect and right in the primary. But despicable in the general election when your vote is for your party's choice.

If you are so shortsighted, so uncompromising, that the processes of democracy are alien to you, then you are in the wrong place. This government was designed to function ONLY with compromise. BushCo didn't understand that and look at the mess we are in. You clearly don't understand it, either.

[EV_Ares]

12. What a democratic post. We should all be good little soldiers and

listen to the Hillary supporters, turn off anything not "pro" Hillary.

[johncoby2]

20. What if Edwards gets the nomination.

Change Hillary to Edwards in my post.

It doesnt matter who gets the nod. Once the nod is made, if you want to bash the Democratic candidate, you can do it else where.

This is DEMOCRATIC underground. For Democrats. Everyone can have differences and should voice them, but if you want to work AGAINST the nominee, then you have the right to do it at freeperville.com.

Enjoy.

[EV_Ares]

24. Not talking about the "Dem" nominee, Of course the dem should be

supported or at least no attacks from here. I am talking about the Hillary bashers that go berzerk against anyone who says anything negative about her here and now. Personally I am tired of it from them and I have a right to my opinion as much as you or the other Hillary supporters.

Look how some of the Hillary supporters here are calling people names, etc.

A really brilliant way to support your candidate and gain support for her.

[Tesha]

42. You started the thread explicitly talking about Hillary.

Curiously, she's the only contender who's on my "Nope,
can't vote for them!' list. The others, well, I might
not be the happiest camper in the world, but I could
vote for any of the others and would happilly support
one or two of them.

Tesha

[NavyDavy]

46. hear hear

[Clark2008]

79. I'd gag.

He's such a cream puff. Now, he's someone I couldn't even hold my nose and vote for. :puke:

[CTyankee]

53. I would agree with you if we had a viable alternative but we don't.

I might have agreed with you in the past. However, I am good and scared about what awaits us if we allow the Republicans to stay in power. Really.

At this point, I firmly believe that a Dem candidate is better than any Repub. We've got to save the country!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpeale]

61. i may be a democrat

BUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DOES NOT "OWN" MY VOTE OR MY LOYALTY. they have to EARN it.

[Tesha]

9. Bingo. But see .11 above. (NT)

[IndianaJones]

41. can you take Robert Byrd with you? nt.

[bpeale]

58. i too, came to the same conclusion about hillary. under no circumstances will i vote for her

[Midlodemocrat]

2. People were banned in 2004 for continually bashing Kerry.

Some folks who just wouldn't shut up about him simply went away one day. They disrupted poorly.

[johncoby2]

16. And they should have been.

This is DEMOCRATIC underground. You are not required to bow down to the candidate, but if you want to work against the Democratic Nominee, go to freeperville.

[EV_Ares]

4. The turnoff here is the pro Hillary supporters who go berserk anytime

they see an anti Hillary post. Your eyes must be closed if you say Obama does not catch it on this board. Look up what a poster said about him the other day which is only one of several that have been posted.

Are the supporters like Hillary where they cannot take any criticism?

[aquart]

8. Stupidest statement of the day.

Hillary Clinton was attacked daily in Arkansas, and minute by minute in Washington. Her hair, her baking, her clothing, her opening her mouth to propose healthcare, her behavior as a betrayed wife, were criticized and she took it with grace and charm.

It is the very thing I admire about her.

Try, if you can, to find criticism that is NOT an easily refutable lie.

[EV_Ares]

10. Your reply only proved my point, thanks. eom.

[MethuenProgressive]

5. What Hillary bashing?

Oh wait... I have eight members blocked. That's probably why I never see any - any more, that is.

[Skidmore]

21. * does that sort of thing too.

Otherwise known as living in the bubble.

[NavyDavy]

7. it should....and if you don't vote for her if she gets nominated

then you deserve the repuke you get, and say good bye to the Constitution....and don't want to hear any b***hing about it since you were part of the problem not the solution....

[Tesha]

14. USA PATRIOT Act parts I and II. Flag burning. etc...

> then you deserve the repuke you get, and say
> good bye to the Constitution....

Curiously enough, Hillary's done her own good amount
of Constitution shredding. Is *SHE* the "Repuke we
deserve"?

Tesha

[NavyDavy]

48. your an idiot if you can't see the difference.....i hate concern trolls

[Tesha]

60. Sorry, but history will likely view the USA PATRIOT Acts..

Sorry, but the history will likely view the USA PATRIOT
Acts as a very bad thing, and I'm neither and idiot nor
a troll.

Instead of calling me names, perhaps you need to try to
make a reasoned, non ad-hominem argument why your point
of view is correct and mine is wrong.

Tesha

[cali]

54. I hate to break this to you but John Edwards

has a worse record in the Senate than Clinton.

[Tesha]

62. And that's a *DEFENSE" of Hillary? "He's just as bad!"???

Sad days we've come to, ehh?

Tesha

[cali]

66. no. you said you'd vote for anyone but her

I'm making a point. Sorry you missed it. In any case, I have no problem voting for whoever the Dem nominee eventually is. And yes, I'll still have my self-respect. Whatever a bunch of people on DU do and don't do, is not more meaningful than whatever a bunch of people on Freeperville do.

[Tesha]

70. I understood your point...

I understood your point...

Maybe it's that I simply have lower expectations of
Edwards than of Hillary (given that I've financially
supported Hillary in the past but have *NEVER* supported
Edwards) or maybe it's that, for the votes I've watched
carefully, Edwards was slightly less disappointing than
Hillary, but whatever the cause, I probably could find
it in my heart to hold my nose and vote for a ticket
that included Edwards.

I did it in 2004 and I could probably do it in 2008.

But I won't extend the same courtesy to Hillary, sorry.

Tesha

[Clark2008]

83. Hey!! I agree with you on something!

:toast:

[jgraz]

84. No candidate has a worse record of *leadership* than Hillary

The voting record is a red herring, as proven by Hillary's high progressive ratings in the senate. Let her take a real stand on something, speak out on it well before the vote takes place, then get back to me.

[onehandle]

13. It didn't with Kerry. And it wouldn't have with Gore.

In 2000 before DU, the online communities were filled with "Greens" bashing Gore and encouraging Naderites to stick with their man.

Later, of course, it was reported that GOP operatives were paid to infiltrate.

And then there's our Ron Paul mania problem...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3688155&mesg_id=3688155

[BoneDaddy]

22. I am sorry

is the message that you are sending to everyone that of not holding our elected leaders accountable or are we to walk in lock step like republicans.

I will continue to hold Mrs. Clinton accountable for what she, in my mind, does wrong.

[NavyDavy]

50. nobody said anything like that

[undeterred]

23. Gee, lets worry about it when the time comes

I think there are more important things on the table right now.

[bonito]

27. Not to worry

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2221559

[MethuenProgressive]

28. Why are you going beserk?

The only way the GOP beats Clinton is with help from Democrats.
If your intent is to help the GOP win the Whitehouse, your plan might work.

[cboy4]

30. Oh boo-fucking-hoo

[LWolf]

35. I am never going to say that I support HRC.

I made that clear before she ever announced. If she ends up being the candidate, I'm not getting in any force-marched line.

That's not bashing, nor is it hating. It's fact.

As far as DU goes, I'll probably limit my time to groups that discuss things of mutual interest and ISSUES, if there are any people left to discuss them at that point. I won't be in "GDP" since I won't be campaigning or voting for HRC.

You seem to be a bit confused. You don't want Democrats bashing Democrats, yet you call some Democrats "Democrat Haters."

Either you can't see clearly enough to understand that calling people who oppose you "haters" IS bashing, or you're thinking that only Democrats who agree with you are "Democrats," or you don't understand the concept of opposition, which is not founded in hate, or you aren't able to make a point without the use of hyperbole. Or all of the above.

[EV_Ares]

36. Have never seen such a whining, name calling post such as this one.

If they think they are supporting their candidate Hillary by attacking other DUers who happen to believe in the other Dem candidates, then they are very misguided in the democratic process. I certainly do not think Hillary is the best choice for the Dem party and I will continue to voice my opinion here until the people who actually control the board decided to take away that right It won't be silenced by Hillary bashers.

If she gets the nomination by the Dem party, I have no problem at that point supporting her over the republicans.

[Mutineer]

37. If she says/does something stupid,

why shouldn't we have the right to criticize her? It's supposed to be a free country OP, and freedom of speech comes with that. If you stifle free thought on a board like this, well, it just goes to show you how seriously this country and this party are truly fucked up.

[EV_Ares]

45. These Hillary Supporters are not doing their candidate any favor by

their attitude of trying to shut down any criticism of her. Also, they are not going to be able to do it and they are wasting everyone's time.

They could do more good by posting information on why she should be supported instead of attacking any of us that do not support her.

[NavyDavy]

51. see your just proving the posters point....people who come here

just to bash the Dems or our party should be asked to leave....

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpeale]

68. i have EARNED the right to vote however i want to vote

i served my country in uniform. i don't need you or anyone else to tell me how to think, how to feel, or how to vote. and who are you to tell anyone else that they are not an AMERICAN if they don't think as you do? HOW DARE YOU call anyone a republican or tell others that they should be ashamed? this is not a dictatorship...YET. i find you post insulting.

[mmonk]

39. Don't equate criticism of HRC with being "Democrat haters".

Don't go there.

[jgraz]

86. Sorry, but they have to

It's part of the loyalty oath you take to Queen Hillary

[shadowknows69]

40. Right up until inauguration day

then she's on notice again.

[Orsino]

43. Obama and Edwards haven't earned as much disrespect.

But questions for the mods do not belong in this forum.

[EV_Ares]

44. Absolutely, eom.

[TahitiNut]

55. Wow! The "concern" is duly noted. I haven't seen such "party loyalty" since the ...

... halcyon days of the Soviet Union. Or was it the National Socialists of Germany? Hard to tell the difference. :shrug:

[Tesha]

63. It certainly wasn't in evidence in Connecticut in 2006 when...

> I haven't seen such "party loyalty" since...

It certainly wasn't in evidence in Connecticut in 2006 when
a lefty won in the Primary and nose-holding suddenly went
out of style among good Democrats. In fact, didn't Chuck
Schumer campaign for the non-Democratic candidate in that
race? He certainly had nice things to say about the "I"
nothing good to say about the "D". Poor Skinner; he'd
have had to ban a sitting U.S. Senator! ;)

Tesha

[graywarrior]

56. I don't want a republican in office, period.

Hillary is not my choice, but I will vote for her rather than Ghouliani, Romney, or McCain and that is for damn sure.

[blondeatlast]

57. Here's a radical thought--let's see what happens in the primaries and take it from there.

Signed,
b@l--a determinedly undecided yella-dawg (but maybe not this time) Democrat.

*siiigh*

[dionysus]

65. if you don't see that attitude going both ways

you're probably intentionally ignoring it.

[Cha]

67. WFT...weren't you around for

the 2004 General when the Kerry "bashing" stopped? Is this just more whining from hillary pushers?

[jgraz]

85. They're all slavering at the idea of finally purging all their "enemies" from the site

These kinds of posts will only become more common as Hillary inevitably slips and falls.

[Neshanic]

91. True, but after the election, the silence from them will be deafening.

[Baby Snooks]

69. I will support her

I don't want to. But I will. I don't like supporting a lesser of two evils. But in this case, I will.

Perhaps if we have a true majority in Congress in 2009 she may swing back towards the left instead of the right. I don't think she would risk an override of a veto by her own party.

I would rather support Al Gore. But that won't happen. Reality is that in 2008, voting for anyone but a Republican should be the only thing that matters when we all go to the polls.

[iamthebandfanman]

71. boohoo

mommy mommy ! make the big bad people stop being mean to my canidate! whaaaaaa!

gee whiz.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. If you don't dance in lockstep, you can't dance. Conform!! Conform!!

[marmar]

73. Probably before the whining will......

:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

74. Legitimate criticism is still allowed. Blatant support for a candidate other than the Dem nominee

is not. Is that REALLY so hard to understand? See, I can criticize her for her foul Kyl/Lieberman vote and be fine, but if I say I'm going to vote third party because of it, I'll be less than politely shown the door--and I'm fine with that. I'll decide what matters more when I have to.

There was criticism of Kerry's campaign right up--well, to now and beyond.

GEEZ.

[blondeatlast]

76. If you can't take the heat, start your own board. nt

[Forkboy]

77. Good thing you started this...it's already been a couple of days since the last whine fest.

And how many times do you babies need Skinner to explain it to you?

[JuniperLea]

80. Calling for lock-step lemmings...

Is pretty damn disgusting, imho.

[uppityperson]

81. To answer your 3 questions: 1) no. 2) same as always. 3) bs

[cascadiance]

87. As long as corporatism continues to plague this party, we will continue to complain!

If Hillary stops being a corporatist (and at this point it would take a LOT to convince me she isn't one any more), then I'll stop bashing her. But I'll bash ALL elements of the corporatist wing of the Democratic Party. And that includes folks like Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Shumer, Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emmanuel, etc. It's either that, or as others indicated here, I leave and become a part of another party that doesn't allow corporatist control.

We need an FDR-style revolution at this point in our country to take down the corporatocracy that's destroying it. DLC folks need not apply!

[Marrah_G]

88. These threads are always great at sorting out who is who. n/t

[Forkboy]

92. I agree, but for different reasons.

;)

[xultar]

94. Ain't that the effin truf.

[Neshanic]

89. I will vote for Hillary no matter what. But be ready for the big "we told you so" when Rudy

Is walking in his parade to the White House.

He is what the republicans who are tired of being led around by the nose by the Religious right desperately want. Roberston knows his gangs star is setting, and he's making hay while the sun shines to at least to remain relevant. Many of my imbecile republican friends are now comfortable voting for him. They will, and we will loose.

See the Wall Street/NBC Poll? One point difference.

Your read it here, and I will repost when Hillary gives her concession speech, and all around the "Luuuucy....WAAAAA HAAAPPEEEENED?"

[hiphopnation]

93. to hell with that

no politic an is beyond scrutiny and pointed questioning...maybe that's not what you mean by bashing.

most duers are smart enough to know the difference and know that calling politicians to the mat, you know demanding that they do their job and be held accountable, is their patriotic duty more so than towing the party line.

sorry! :hi: