Florida's plan to require evolution be taught in science class is being called "godless".

[madfloridian]

When I first read the article about the Department of Education's decision, I knew it would not go over well. It was eye-opening that so many people did not realize that it was not a requirement here.
Well, the letters to the editors are beginning. I have also heard comments locally expressing outrage that our schools are abandoning the teachings of the Bible. That's how it has been here for so long that so many see no other way of looking at things.

Godless adults

Jonathan Smith, the Lakeland resident and representative of National Center
of Science Education, was 100 percent correct when he said the standards
change in forcing the evolutionary theory on students are "much deeper and
complex, and aren't just about evolution."

The downward spiral humanity is on is pathetically evolutionary, and is
producing generations of godless adults.

It's certainly not true science. It is a lot of confusion along with
imagination and a wishful doctrine from confused people who cannot accept
creationism.

I trust we have more competent leaders who will stop this nonsense being
perpetrated on our students.

And another letter to the editor shows this is not going to be accepted.

Letter says students will be taught to disbelieve their parents

If The Ledger article is true ("Plan To Require Evolution to Be Taught in
Schools," Oct. 24,) students will be taught to disbelieve what their parents
teach them at home. Jonathan Smith, one of the writers of the new teaching
standards, said, "It (new standards) closed the door on ambiguity" about
evolution. "There isn't both sides. There is only one side as far as science
is concerned."

Citizens have been told for years that teachings of God have no place in
schools, and that such teaching should be left to parents and churches.
We've given in to that position, but now Mr. Smith and his kind are
promoting a totally godless belief.

Why should we (surveys show that most Americans believe in a Creator) pay
for consultants, administrators and teachers in our schools to promote a
belief that denies the existence of a Creator? Why pay for them to contend
that what we believe and teach in our homes and churches is a lie?

If the state Department of Education is going to vote on the new standards
in January, as The Ledger article said, they need to hear from us. Comment
at www.flstandards.org .

When the original article came out I said all hell might break loose in our area with 4 bible colleges and a huge number of churches which espouse creationism as the only way.

Florida puts forth plan to require evolution to be taught in schools

For the first time, standards in science have been written that would require Florida public-school students be taught about evolution. The new standards released last week say that evolution will be taught beginning in the third grade. Current standards do not use the word evolution, preferring the term "biological changes over time".

The state Department of Education is expected to approve the new standards in January.

The proposal will likely fuel a backlash from those who believe in intelligent design, the idea that life began as a result of an intelligent force or being. The new science standards exclude intelligent design.

Florida's science teaching was recently ripped apart, and it led to some self-examination of our standards.

A 45-member committee appointed by the state Department of Education began revising the science standards in May in response to a failing 2005 report on Florida's public school science curriculum by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, a Washington-based nonprofit group. The Fordham study said Florida's standards are "sorely lacking in content," "naive," and that life sciences and evolution are given "shorter shrift than any of the other" science topics.

"The superficiality of the treatment of evolutionary biology alone justifies the grade 'F,'" the report stated.

It is no exaggeration that a neighbor told my husband that we were all heading for a train wreck in our schools if this went through. Hubby started to argue with them, then he backed off. After all this is the neighborhood that had yard signs given out by churches supporting the war and supporting the president in 2003.

It is the neighborhood in which a neighbor yelled at us in 2003 that we were not to question our God-chosen leaders.

The Department of Education will have to stand firmly.

[Red Zelda]

1. God has chosen evolution

[Deep13]

17. A close look at natural selection and evolution...

...demonstrates an absolute lack of planning, direction or anything that can be said to have an end-result in mind. The way natural selection works precludes any divine origin or intervention.

[peacebird]

2. I miss the separation between church and state....

the nuns who taught me had no problem with evolution. They pointed out (correctly, I think) that perhaps God's "day" was in a different time span than ours.

[madfloridian]

7. That sounds like what I grew up hearing from my parents...

and even some in my Southern Baptist church. I never really thought of it as conflict.

[rox63]

14. I went to 12 years of Catholic school, and the nuns in my school taught about evolution too n/t

[AX10]

3. Evolution is truth.

[B3Nut]

4. "not to question our God-chosen leaders"

Hmm. Interesting. So I am to assume that this neighbor never questioned President Clinton? I think we all know the answer to THAT question...

Silly fundie knuckledraggers...

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[cgrindley]

5. Pretty much, yeah

good thing, too. All explanations that require a deity are obvious lies. And if parents believe in any god or gods, their children should be taught to ignore their parents' beliefs.

[Deep13]

18. Precisely, children should not be hobbled ...

...by their parents' erroneous thinking before they are old enough to understand the difference between reality and wishful (or in this case fearful) thinking.

[Homer Wells]

6. I hardly consider it "GODLESS".

In a free society, there are various roles that established institutions in that society have to play.

The Church is there to instill moral and spiritual values in its adherents.

The Schools exist to educate its students in the ways of science, and all other topics of a worldly nature.

The root of this conflict is the attempted usurpation of the Church in denying the Schools their inherent right to help their charges learn to think for themselves, without the 'brain-washing' techniques that these "Religious" types use to deny them their own minds.

[Deep13]

16. Hmmm, the NOMA argument.

Non-overlapping magisteria, a term coined by the late Stephen J. Gould. In normal words the two institutions cover different subject matters and do not intrude on each other. I wish that were true as it would save a lot of aggravation, but it is not.

Can you give me an example of a moral value that is instilled by "the Church?" Since there are no spirits, I frankly reject the notion that there are spiritual values worth instilling in anyone.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

26. bah. Vodka is a great spirit, and reading the inerrant bible after a few

pops, especially that late Great Olde Testament, it is really entertaining.

after all the bible is inerrant, despite being badly translated from original sources into attic greek, then modern greek, and extremely badly into english, only to be fixed (badly, something like 20,000 major errors) in King James 1 (by people who knew no hebrew), followed by King james II, (which had its own problems), then mistranslated again into an Americanized english.

Yup. every single blessed bloody word is perfect, and despite no punctuation, no capitalization, and no vowels, four languages back, every word's perfect meaning is perfectly understood.

[Deep13]

30. I said "instilled," not "distilled."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

31. oops. I guess I'm not inerrant.

cheers.

[Quantess]

8. Pardon my language.

That is so fucked!

[SidDithers]

9. teh stupid...it burns!!!...nt

Sid

[Atman]

10. So they hate public schools and think they churn out idiots...

..and now they want those same tools to teach their kids about religion?

These people really are stupid fucking idiots.

.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. you are too kind.

they are dangerous.

[Tesha]

38. Hey! That's what's makes 'Murka Great! Am I right or am I right? Fk'in A I am! (NT)

[ProgressiveFool]

11. lines like this one:

"wishful doctrine from confused people who cannot accept
creationism.

I trust we have more competent leaders who will stop this nonsense being
perpetrated on our students"

really make my poor head hurt.

[madfloridian]

12. Remember this video clip from HBO's Friends of God?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KwpkzaVjzw

It was made by Alexandra Pelosi, and was brilliant and scary

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. damn. I did not see that earlier.

Ham is an ass. a brain-washing ass.

[TheMightyFavog]

44. Ham? Is he the one that's doing time?

One of those big time Creationist guys is in the federal pokey for tax evasion or something.

EDIT: I was thinking of the wrong guy. It's Hovind that's enjoying a stay at Club Fed.

[rox63]

13. If they want their kids to learn the bible , then send them to private religious schools

And leave the rest of the kids free to learn real science in public schools.

[Deep13]

15. It is godless. So what? It is still true.

I don't see how not liking the implications of a fact has any bearing in its validity. First, I don't think that evolution implies anything that denegrates humanity. If it did imply that, however, then that's what it means. Not liking it does not make it untrue. I don't like the implications that global warming has for our future, but it is real nonetheless.

[LiberalLovinLug]

19. Yikes

One step closer to the United Theocracy of America.

Can't these fundies see the similarities between what they want - their church leaders deciding what is taught in Americas schools - and the learning environment in say Iran, or any other hard-line Islamic state? Where religion is part and parcel of their education. Is that what they want???? Of course they will say there is a big difference. And that difference is that my religion is RIGHT and theirs is WRONG.

[mwb970]

48. That's exactly what they say.

I confronted a fundie on the issue of Christian "madrassas", and it was just like you said. He told me that the Muslims are wrong and therefore cursed, whereas he and other Christians are right and therefore blessed. For him, it is as simple as that.

[Swamp Rat]

20. The Flat Earth Society strikes again

[Evoman]

21. "abandoning the teachings of the bible"

They say it like it's a bad thing.

[Deep13]

24. I was thinking that the other day while stabbing my child...

...as a sacrifice for God. You see I promised God to sacrifice the first living thing I saw in thanks for allowing me to win a difficult court case. Unfortunately, the first living thing was my kid. I regretted my promise, but God's blood-thirst won't slake itself.

Judges 10:6-12:07

[walldude]

22. Question nothing, believe what we tell you

It's all in this book. Use no scientific method, do not dare to question the writings of a 2000 year old book that has been translated and re-written hundreds of times. Turn off your brains, follow the leader. You are a lemming and as we head off this cliff you should consider yourself lucky we allowed you to follow.

[BattyDem]

23. Godless ... isn't that the whole point?

God and/or religion has no place in the science class of a public school.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. I don't understand why they have to teach aeronautical engineers "Godless" aerodynamics.

Who wants godless engineering holding up your plane? Wouldn't you prefer prayer?

[BattyDem]

49. That would bring new meaning to the phrase ...

"On a wing and a prayer."

[Warren DeMontague]

50. And shit, it looks like we just lost the wing.

Pray harder!

[Akoto]

25. So glad I'm leaving Florida in a month.

I grew up here, and it's certainly difficult for me to understand this place anymore.

[Rex]

28. Hey stupid freepers - intelligent design and mother nature are one and the same.

Get the fuck over it. Go back to drinking poison and playing with rattlesnakes.

[sasquatch]

32. Where do you live in Floriduh(Intentional Pun)?

I'm drawing up battle plans for the next civil war and it looks like I might pay a visit.

[eppur_se_muova]

33. Oh, and I suppose "godless" is supposed to be a bad thing?

You want religion, go to Sunday school, not public school.

[madfloridian]

34. The video clip from HBO's Friends of God by Alexandra Pelosi

Watch it again. This was not exaggerated. This is going on all over our country in certain fundamentalist churches and conventions. Note the large number of children involved.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KwpkzaVjzw

[moggie]

35. Speaking as a non-American

Excellent!

America, please let your medieval crazies gut your science teaching. The rest of the world will thank you.

[madfloridian]

36. LOL

[Chovexani]

37. Florida is proof that evolution is bunk

It seems to have passed most of the state by.

[Sam Ervin jret]

39. I DEMAND EVOLUTION BE TAUGHT IN SUNDAY SCHOOL!

Fair and balanced? Right?

[madfloridian]

41. There you go!

Works both ways.

[madfloridian]

40. "Take Religion Into Voting Booth; Ensure That Officials Serve God"

This is another in the series of letters about the need of our country to turn to the religion of the forefathers before we are doomed. This is not just about evolution but about only electing officials who serve God.

Take Religion Into Voting Booth; Ensure That Officials Serve God

What would happen on Election Day if every Christian marked on his ballot "None of the above" and then added, "I want to know God's choice." What would happen if every Christian prayed to his Father before it is time to vote and asked for his will to be done? He is waiting to show us his will, but we need to appeal to him with heartfelt prayers and fasting, both in tears and in the fear of the Lord.

It is certainly evident that our country, America the beautiful, is going down fast, and no one knows where to turn. We are all like sheep that have gone astray. We are allowing Satan to take our families. We the people must rise up and be counted, as we realize that "a divided nation cannot stand."

The power-hungry, multimillion-dollar bureaucrats now in office do not know the needs of the common man, but God does. Jesus walked, and worked, among men for 33 years, and then died on the cruel cross at Calvary. He knows hunger, poverty, pain, sickness and death.

We all need to register to vote for this next election. We need to vote for people who will allow God to be God.

By doing so, we might see the Ten Commandments posted in every classroom across the nation. If anyone opposes our right to serve our God openly, they need to be told, "This is our God-given right, and it cannot be taken away from us." They would probably take their children out of our schools, but they will still need to be educated.

Maybe this lady is unaware that the president who has caused the deaths of many Iraqis, many of our military, is condoning torture, and is holding American citizens without the need for habeos corpus.....is supposedly a good Christian man.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. "In Your Heart, You Know It's Flat"

[Prophet 451]

45. They say "Godless" like it's a bad thing...

I'm sorry, this is a deal-breaker for me. If you cannot accept that evolution is more-or-less accurate (minor quibbles over the exact sequence or timescale aside) or, at least, the best hypothesis we have to go on right now, you're a freaking imbecile (and I'm horrifyingly aware that includes over half the American public).

I don't think it's a coincidence that the US is both the most fanatically religious nation in the Western world and the only nation in the Western world where anything more than a tiny number of people doubt evolution.

New Rule: You can't say "Teach the controversy" when you artificially created the controversy.

EDIT: In the interests of full disclosure, I'm a Satanist. I also think that no-one's faith, including my own, should be taught in schools (with the possible exceptions of Compartive Religions and certain periods of History).

[and-justice-for-all]

46. It is really very easy...

All the evidence points to what should be obvious, EVOLUTION, which is a fact based on the evidence and which is agreed by the majority of Scientist as a FACT.

Then there is ID aka Creationsim which has NO evidence at all and is all based on 'faith' and 'fantasy'. Religion, is nothing but a fantasy and wish-thinking; KEEP THAT SHIT OUT OF SCIENCE CLASS!

[RebelOne]

47. If I remember correctly, evolution was always taught

in Florida schools. I went to school in South Florida and learned about evolution in science classes. Never once was creationism taught.