Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

FYI: Yes, you *CAN* recall a US Senator and/or Congressperson

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 05:19 AM
Original message
FYI: Yes, you *CAN* recall a US Senator and/or Congressperson
Thanks to lligrd for a link earlier, but first here's a primer:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction


Senators have to find a balance between voting their conscience and
voting as their constituents would like. If senators vote their
conscience too heavily, constituents tend to get angry. When this
happens, constituents may ask for a recall of their U.S. Senator
.


Instructions


Difficulty: Challenging


Step One


Consider your location. Few states allow for a recall of a senator-
only 18 and the District of Columbia. If you're not living in one of
these states you have no constitutional rights to recall.


Step Two


Determine the grounds for recall. You'll need this information to make
your case to the population but in 7 of the 18 states specific grounds
are actually required. In these states, if your reasons don't measure
up, you won't be allowed to proceed with the recall.


Step Three


Get signatures. You'll need a petition to get a recall election. The
number of signatures is usually a percentage of the voters at the last
election but this differs by state.


Step Four


Prepare for a response. At some point during the process, the senator
will be notified that a petition for recall is being circulated. She
will then have a chance to respond to the allegations.


Step Five


Get voters to the recall election. Once the recall election is
granted, alert the community and get them out to vote. The ballot will
ask whether or not the senator should be recalled and the state may
hold an election at the same time to elect the next person for that
office.


Tips & Warnings


The 18 states allowing for recall are as follows: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, North Dakota, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington and Wisconsin.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics/browse_thre...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next we have the link from lligrd, which if you click on and read you will see this:

Table 1: Summary of State Recall Provisions for Statewide and Legislative Officers


Who Can Be Recalled
Signature Requirement
Circulation Time




California
All

For statewide officers: 12% of the votes cast in the last election for the official being recalled, 1% from each of 5 counties

Others: 20% of the votes cast in the last election for the official being recalled
160 days



New Jersey
All
25% of the registered voters in the electoral district of the official sought to be recalled
Governor or U.S. Senator: 320 days

All others: 160 days

North Dakota
All but U.S. Congress
25% of the votes cast in the last election for the official being recalled
Not specified

Oregon
All but U.S. Congress
15% of total votes cast in officer's district for all candidates for governor in the last election
90 days

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/legismgt/elect/recallprovi...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, would anyone like to try to explain the difference between All and All but U.S. Congress??

:hi:

PEACE!

Ghost
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. glad you posted this.
here's a kick.

People should keep in mind that this is a very hard row to hoe. And as noted, in 7 of the 18 states allowing for recall, there must be specific wrongdoing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks for suggesting I post it as an OP. You were right about the other
thread and someone continuing to deny it. It's a hoot! I'm not going to bring it into here, but there's a real "live one" over there.

:hi:

Ghost
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. state recall laws don't trump congress' power to seat/remove its own members
State Laws < US Constitution

please, stop encouraging him.

your first instinct in the other thread was correct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. OK, I see what you're saying
I think the deal is that you're both right.

Some states (18) have laws that enable voters to recall a U.S. Senator or Representative.

Such a recall could conceivably achieve success.

Yet:

Congress would not be bound to follow the directive of the voters of the State demanding recall.

So would it then go to the SC? Seems like the SC would refuse to hear such a case, but what do I know?

Evidently not much on this topic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I would love to share credit with Ghost, but he is not right (you mostly are)
Congress retains the authority to expel its own members. If it went to the Supreme Court, they would be bound to follow what the us constitution says, and it says that congress has the power to expel its own members --not state processes.

congress *could* act on that, but it would be their choice, their authority, not the voters in that case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. No, you can't recall a Senator or a US Representative
Edited on Sun Nov-04-07 06:45 AM by OKNancy
It's unconstitutional. States can recall state officerholders only

LOL - I recall this conversation when discussiong Lieberman some time back.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
39. Please provide a link to a Constitutional Amendment or Supreme Court ruling
saying it's unconstitutional.

"Amendment X, Constitution of the United States of America:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Thanks...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. "...All but U.S. Congress??" means that any elected
officials of a state except those elected to Congress can be recalled. All state, regional and local positions are subject to a recall vote. The congress critters being immune till the next election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. **What** does this say?
"New Jersey
All
25% of the registered voters in the electoral district of the official sought to be recalled
Governor or U.S. Senator: 320 days"

I give you a 50 for only answering HALF of the question and an "F" for effort because you didn't even try very hard at all...

ALL means *every* one of them, including U.S. Senators. All but U.S. Congress means just that... all of them except U.S. Congresspersons

Thanks for playing. Better luck next time... follow links & study up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Well whomever he/she is has me confussed now.
Wasn't very hard was it? LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. LOL!
lonestarnot! :hug: :hi:

It'll be ok... that smell is just the exploding heads of the ones who are adamant that a U.S. Senator "can't be recalled"...

Reality bites them on the butt this morning.. :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. quote the us constitution, go ahead, i dare ya... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Ghost is wrong, if you believe him, he has confused you, insidiously
He is what you call "begging the question" by saying state law allows recalls without mentioning that Congress alone holds the power to seat/remove its own members.

Myself and others have repeatedly corrected him on this but he keeps insisting that he is correct, he won't acknowledge the US constitution in this thread because everyone knows that the US constitution trumps state laws.

At least I think that's his motive for leaving it out of this thread. But I'm putting it back in .

I'm tired of this nonsense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. You mean that "GD piece of shredded paper?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. well, as long as its followed, yes...an open question sad to say
but i was hoping that DU wouldn't be the place where we ditch it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. DU has not ditched the Constitution! WTF are you talking about!
From this statement alone, I will not read anything else you have to say. Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. I didn't say DU has ditched the constitution n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. funny how you never quote the US Constitution which takes precedent
over state laws.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
35. And your point is? Who appointed you control freak of the day?
What did you say that I did not? Maybe you had better pay attention!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. My point is that you were WRONG. You're the one who needs to pay attention
You answered only half the question. I said several things that you didn't...

Here, I'll make it much simpler for you so you can understand it and follow along, ok?

Define All.

now...

Define All but U.S. Congress

Don't confuse yourself with anything else, just provide these two definitions...

Thanks...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Welp that sucks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. oh, you moved over here now because you were getting corrected in the other thread
Folks, vote in recalls all you want...Congress can remove its own members, state recalls don't carry that authority.

They could be *advisory* at best, but congress would have to vote to expel a member before it would happen.

Sorry to throw water on this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. whoa,
it looks like you need to take a deep breath and cool off. You're getting way wound over this.

As I said upthread, it looks like you both might be right here.

You're correct that some states allow for recall. It looks like Creekdog is correct that the the U.S. Congress would not be bound by state law.

Anyway, the whole thing is pretty academic to me, as it seems unlikely to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. more truth. thank you. n/t
Tell Ghost I'll piss off later but not until he does. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
31. To put it simply, he said "you *can't* recall a U.S.Senator". CAN'T
I've showed that yes, you CAN according to state laws and constitutions.

Whether the Senate or House chooses to recognize or ignore that recall on a federal level is irrelevant, the simple fact is YES, you CAN recall a U.S. Senator or Congressperson. Plain and simple, yes you CAN. Period.

It's like where he says:

"Texas' constitution says they can leave the union
Can they?

Federalism mister. Whether or not those states purport to give their citizens the right to recall congresspeople does not actually mean those people have that right."


Well yes, they can leave the Union... but they'd have to give up ALL Federal help and monies, just like when Key West tried to secede from Florida... then they figured out they would be losing out on a lot of federal money...

It's all semantics here right now... he says "you CAN'T" ... state law says "you CAN"...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. when state law conflicts with the Constitution, which has authority?
State or US Constitution?

Just answer that and we can settle this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Dude, you're not getting it. That doesn't matter. You said "you CAN'T recall a US Senator"
I have shown you that yes, you CAN. Whether the Federal Government recognizes it or not is IRRELEVANT to the fact that YES, YOU *CAN* RECALL A U.S. SENATOR. Period. Stick to the issue, which you HAVEN'T done.

You CAN recall a U.S. Senator or Congressperson, even if it's not federally recognized.

You're the one who needs to admit that you're wrong on this point...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. He's right.
You can't recall a US Senator.

Remember a few years ago when some states tried to impose Term Limits on their congresspeople? The US Supreme Court ruled such limits were unconstitutional, because only the US Constutiton can be used to determine the eligiibility of candidates.

For example, no state could require a us Senator to be 40 years old. No state can say somebody who's already served two terms in the Senate can't run again. And no state can recall a Senator once s/he's been elected to office.

The US Constitution is the ruling authority on this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. Nope, he's wrong... and so are you...
I have shown you a document dated March 21, 2006 from the National Conference of State Legislatures that says you CAN recall a U.S. Senator. Why do you all want to bring up outdated citations from 2003, 2001 & 1967??

For that matter, again, how is a recall "imposing term limits"?? A recall has absolutely NOTHING to do with "determining the eligibility of a candidate" or "imposing term limits", it has to do with disciplining an employee(elected official) who isn't doing his/her job to the satisfaction of his/her employers(constituents).

Please get off of the "imposing term limits" BS, because that's what it is.. pure BS. No one is "imposing term limits" or "determining eligibility" They're determining the Senator's "continued fitness & ability" to hold their job and do it right and/or honorably....

Also, being as it's never been addressed directly by the Supreme Court, you're running on pure speculation and conjecture anyways, as I've already pointed out to you too.

Stick to the subject and issue.. which ISN'T "imposing term limits"...

Thanks



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. term limits
was presented as an example of a recent case where the USSC said states can't redefine the qualifications for serving in the US Congress.

Any thinking person would have recognized it as such.

How about this citation from the Congressional Research Service which states that you're flat-wrong?

http://lugar.senate.gov/services/pdf_crs/Recall_of_Legi...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. There you are with that SAME link from a 2003 document when I've provided you
with a document last updated March 21, 2006 from the National Conference of State Legislatures...

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/legismgt/elect/recallprovi...

You're not very good at keeping up, are you? The same goes for following directions. I told you NOT to show me any more BS about "term limits" or "candidate eligibility", didn't I? Stick to the issue. It's RECALL, and that has to do with determining fitness & ability to continue doing their job, not "eligibility" FOR the job.

Jeez.....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. You think the constitution changed
between 2003 and 2006? And the National Conference of State Legislatures doesn't get to decide this issue!

All you have to do is point to a clause in the US constitution that allows for recall of Senators.

You're just wrong. Sadly, tragically, yet comically wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. The Constitution neither allows or disallows for recall...
and the Supreme Court has NEVER addressed the issue directly....

Please show where it does...

Thanks...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. I don't have to
you claim that Senators can be recalled. show me where in the constitution that is allowed.

The fact is, it's not allowed. It's never happened. Do you think the Republicans wouldn't have TRIED it if it were even remotely possible?

You're just wrong, and this is getting boring.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #46
58. ..................
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. LMFAO!!!.... Thanks for that, ronnykmarhall
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yes, I'm able to laugh at myself too.... Thanks for helping me do it!

Well played, friend... well played!

:rofl:

I think I'll sit back and take a breather on this for a few..

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #58
79. Ghost you are definetely the "Francis" in this argument n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
18. Yale law professor says..no you can't recall a US Senator
Edited on Sun Nov-04-07 06:43 AM by OKNancy
You Can't Recall Senators
Published: July 13, 2001

To the Editor:

I was surprised to learn of an effort by Arizonans to recall Senator John McCain from the United States Senate (news article, July 11). The Constitution explicitly grants each senator a six-year term, and no state has the right to terminate a senator before his time is up.

A few years ago, the Supreme Court struck down state laws imposing term limits on members of the House of Representatives. A similar logic applies to the attempt by states to alter senatorial terms. Any effort to recall any senator is unconstitutional.

BRUCE ACKERMAN
New Haven, July 11, 2001

The writer is a professor of constitutional law at Yale University.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E6DE...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. ssshhhh, Ghost is going to burst a vessel n/t
but thanks for another interesting point that is totally germaine to the topic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Another germaine topic is Idaho
The folks in Idaho are desperate to get rid of Craig, but they can't. Only the Senate can dump him, not the electorate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. Actually, Idaho's constitution says they "can" recall him. All they need
is 20% of eligible voters

Idaho
All but judicial officers
20% of eligible voters for office at time of last election
60 days


Now, given that even the Senate wants to get rid of Larry Craig, they just *might* recognize a successful recall referendum on him. Again, they don't *have* to recognize it, but there's a chance they *might*.

The Federal law says that they don't *have* to honor a recall vote in any state that has the option... but it doesn't say that they "can't" accept and honor it, either... does it?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. Bushitler went to school there you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
44. the mind boggles. So what? So did Howard Dean
and many other people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #44
59. And Obama and Bill and Hillary Clinton
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. National Conference of State Legislatures says "You CAN" and it is dated 2006
whereas your Yale law professor's opinion is dated 2001...

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/legismgt/elect/recallprovi...

Pardon me if I take a GROUPS opinion over ONE law professor's opinion.


Got anything more up to date?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
24. Constitutionally We Know Where This Case Ends
Senate and House are FEDERAL offices and any attempt to mess with them requires a Constitutional ammendment. Originally Senators weren't elected, they were selected by state legislatures...and this was changed by an ammendment.

The concept of a recall at this time is a mess and surely not worth the time with a Congresscritter who will be facing re-election next year anyway. AFA Senator, hope you've got a boatload of cash to fund such a recall where you would be fighting the state Democratic party. Good luck on that. Then comes the constitutionality. Surely a recall would be contested that would then go to the Supreme Court...and we know what the score is there.

The paycheck a Congressman or Senator gets is from the Federal Government, they get federal benefits and pensions...they are federal, not state, employees.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. yup that's why federal gov't doesn't pay state taxes --not subject to them
federal employees do because they are subject to the state. but there is no corresponding payment by the feds to the state as an obligation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Taxes Have No Application To Status
Federal employees who live in a specific state pay taxes because they reside there. Prime residency, ya know. It's also income...not benefits or pensions. Again...they're FEDERAL employees. So is your mailman or the TSA worker at the airport (albeit with far less benefits than legislators get).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. i think it does, it's why i pay CA taxes, but i can't join State Disability Insurance
because the Feds don't have to pay the state the employer share of that mandatory program, mandatory by state law.

in the same way I agree with you that I pay taxes because I am subject to the state, my employer is not.

and i wish i had CA state disability insurance, but the feds won't do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
40. and the wheel goes round and round
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
42. WHAT KIND OF MORON WANTS TO RECALL A DEMOCRATIC SENATOR FROM A STATE WITH A GOP GOVERNOR?
Edited on Sun Nov-04-07 09:35 AM by Richardo
Even if possible (and I don't think it is), it's about the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.

The Dems have 50 seats in the Senate. You want them to have FEWER? You want Hatch or Spector back as head of the Judiciary Committee? :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. don't assume there's much thinking going into the suggestion
or at least much logical thinking
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Oh I don't - I read the previous thread too...
:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #45
53. You haven't *read* shit, or you wouldn't have posted such a misinformed,
totally out of left field reply like you did above...

Please show me where you read that a GOP Governor would appoint the replacement of a recalled Senator...

I've got $10 that says you CAN'T... now get to looking and back up your statement....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a reminder of what you said:

Richardo (1000+ posts) Sun Nov-04-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
42. WHAT KIND OF MORON WANTS TO RECALL A DEMOCRATIC SENATOR FROM A STATE WITH A GOP GOVERNOR?
Edited on Sun Nov-04-07 10:35 AM by Richardo
Even if possible (and I don't think it is), it's about the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.

The Dems have 50 seats in the Senate. You want them to have FEWER? You want Hatch or Spector back as head of the Judiciary Committee? {emphasis mine}
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll be waiting...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. Ooooh! Did typing in ALL CAPS make you feel smart or special?
Too bad it didn't make you LOOK smarter. If you could comprehend what you read, you would have read that:
"In the six states where the election for a successor is held simultaneously with the recall election, the election is handled in two ways. In California and Colorado, the first question on the ballot is whether the official should be recalled. Voters are then asked to vote for a candidate for the office; the official who is the subject of the recall may not be listed among these candidates."

What kind of moron responds to a thread with bloviating bullshit because he knows not that of which he speaks?

I'd suggest you click links and read information that's provided to you before you blather off again. You know, so you don't look... well, *ignorant* or something....


just sayin...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. How did these people get to be senators
Oh - right - people voted for them.

This thread is so ridiculous that it hurts
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Would you care to clarify your statement?
Yes, people *voted* them in office. The people aren't happy with the job they're doing that they voted them in to do. Some State Constitutions provide a "recall provision" so voters can, in effect, *fire* an elected official for gross misconduct or sheer incompetence in the performance of their duties they were elected to perform.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. Do you honestly think a mmajority of California Democrats would support
a recall?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. I don't know if they would or not, really. There's a lot of pissed off Democrats
out there. How would you feel about *your* Senator endorsing torture??

That's what this whole subject is about. If anything, since the Supreme Court has never had to deal with this issue directly, don't you think this might be a good way to get them to look at it directly? If the district is safely Democratic, there's really not much fear of losing the seat to a repug. The voters would get to choose who the replacement was. They're not appointed, they're elected.

Sadly, I have two repug Senators, Lamar Alexander & Bob Corker, so I fully expect them to back Mukasey's nomination and endorse torture. I'm still gonna raise hell about it, and you can bet that if Tennessee had a recall provision I'd be leading the charge to test those provisions out... There's a lot of republicans around here who are sick of Bush, and of our own Senators. Many of them have said that they plan on voting for a Democrat next year, just because they're sick of republicans.. ALL republicans... There's a lot of low wage workers around here, and they haven't forgotten the republicans trying to block the minimum wage raise either.

Oh... then there's the war.....

Yes, people are unhappy with the status quo...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. My senator is Joe Lieberman
so you tell me
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #52
60. So when are you moving to California to get this "recall" rolling?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. Why should I have to move there and do *your* civic duty for you?
That's California's job to do if you don't want a Democratic Senator who endorses and condones torture. Do you support your Senator who endorses torture, ronnykmarshall??

I've got enough work cut out for me here trying to get Tennessee turned blue. It's NOT an easy task, believe me...

Y'all work on your end on your DEMOCRATIC Senators, and I'll keep trying to at least *get* us ONE Democratic Senator.... m'kay?

Again... thanks for laugh with that animation clip upthread.. that was funny as hell...

Peace!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. duty?
I would have to think that it's a person's political opinion not duty
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. Hey man, YOU'RE the one who saiid 'Statewide Office' meant federal officials
You're still in the lead in the idiot race.

Plus, of your sacred list, only New Jersey shows a specific mechanism for recalling US Senators. For the remainder, we have to take the word of you, who thinks 'statewide office' includes federal representatives.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. You're still willfully ignorant, and wrong to boot...
You can't change that fact either, can you?

BTW, I only look like the lead idiot in the race, but thats because I'm not even a 1/4 of the way around the track and you're coming up behind me.... already on your 10th lap.

What I said was "Technically they could ALL be considered as Statewide Officials" along with the qualifier "because they are elected only in their own state"... and also said that I was "digging deep on that one, but courts have overturned decisions on much more minor technicalities". So, do you have anymore bullshit you'd like to spout that you don't know what you're talking about?

Before you answer, maybe you should re-read your initial reply above that you spewed your misinformed bile about pertaining to GOP Governors and see how stupid you made yourself look, then look where you got totally smashed into the ground like a bug under a shoe when you were called on your bullshit, reactionary posting without following and reading a link that was provided to you and everyone else.

In short, sir, your debating/conversational skills SUCK and you have nothing of substance to add to this conversation. Period. You came out of the gate looking like a fool, and now you're only digging yourself in deeper... quit while you're only this far behind...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. You look more like a moron with every post
congrats :patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #65
78. I think you couldn't type properly if you couldn't use the word "fool" or "ignorant" n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. bwahahahah
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #65
81. This feels more like an intervention than an argument
and every person who has argued with you has made more sense than you on this
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
50. If senators vote their conscience too heavily, constituents tend to get angry. - a small quibble
Most of the people we're mad at are not voting their consciences. They are voting their $, their fears, or both.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
64. In the end, Congress seats their own members. You are wrong, again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. in the beginning, constituents ELECT the members of Congress, who *then*
seat themselves in their committees and chairs. Congress doesn't pick and choose who each state elects...

Nice try though... thanks for playing...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Great. So go vote for Republicans, then.
Democrats are not going to refuse to seat fellow Democrats when the recall shills have no actual evidence of misconduct.

Nice try though. Continue making a fool of yourself here - we're all getting a good laugh from it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
73. Not Connecticut
Damn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Exactly!
I am a New Haven/Branford kid

Imagine what these folks would be saying if Joementum was their senator
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
75. The Constitution triumphs State law regarding Congress
The Constitution doesn't explicitly allow recalls of Senators or Representatives. If a state such as California was successful doing recall of Feinstein (and recalls being highly difficult anyways), then it would be knocked down by the Congress. It would eventually go to the Supreme Court, which would defer to the Constitution. Recalls aren't possible. The only recourse is to either get someone to resign or vote them out during the next election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Holy crap! Actual American democracy!
Imagine
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Terri S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
76. Removal of US Senators and Reps governed by US Constitution Article 1,Sec5(2)
Procedure For Recalling State and Local Officials
Prepared by the Office of the Secretary of State

Revised 2007

link


Recall is the power of the voters to remove elected officials before their terms
expire. It has been a fundamental part of our governmental system since 1911 and has
been used by voters to express their dissatisfaction with their elected representatives.

This publication examines the law of recall only as it applies to state and local
officials. It is divided into separate parts to help avoid confusion. Be sure to check the
Table of Contents and review all parts which are specific to the type of recall in which
you are interested.

Please note that the procedures described herein do not apply to federal officers.
The removal of U.S. Representatives or U.S. Senators is governed by the United States
Constitution, Article 1, Sec. 5 (2), which states "Each House may determine the rules of
its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence
of two-thirds, expel a member."
The President, Vice President and all civil officers of
the United States are removed through the process of "impeachment" which is
governed by the United States Constitution.

Unless otherwise indicated, all references in parentheses are to the California
Elections Code.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. Excellent post!
Thanks for the link, I think it will prove useful soon. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Terri S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. or not ... LOL!
I thought that would kinda put an end to the conversation, but seeing the other thread, hmm, maybe not ... oh well :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. It's still a good post
Some people are just to ingrained in their position that they refuse to see what's in front of their face. Really, the fact that it's not in the Constitution should have ended this conversation a few threads ago. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
85. locking
Thoughtful discussion on this topic has long since past.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Oct 20th 2014, 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC