Venezuelen students protest Hugo Chavez as constituional reforms are passed

[ShaneGR]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21601974/





CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuela's pro-government National Assembly overwhelmingly approved constitutional reforms on Friday that would greatly expand the power of President Hugo Chavez and permit him to run for re-election indefinitely.

The 69 changes to Venezuela's Constitution now go to Venezuelan citizens for a single yes-no vote on Dec. 2.

The proposed changes, Chavez's most radical move yet in his push to transform Venezuela into a socialist state, threaten to spur a new wave of political upheaval in this oil-rich South American country already deeply divided over Chavez's rule.

The amendments would allow the government to expropriate private property prior to a court ruling and take total control over the Central Bank, create new types of property managed by cooperatives, and extend presidential terms from six to seven years while allowing Chavez to run again in 2012.

[Mojorabbit]

1. Hmmm

students protesting is sometimes a harbinger of things to come?

[EFerrari]

11. AP isn't distinguishing between students protesting and

students counterprotesting. They're just lumping them all together. Neat trick, isn't it?

[Mojorabbit]

14. Yes it is

but I always am on the alert when students are protesting. In so many countries that is where movements start.

[EFerrari]

18. Absolutely. I went to the Reuters photo reporting to see

if I could figure out who was who, but I can't. The only shot that shows a lot of people shows both groups but there's no way to tell one from the other.

On one hand, the oligarchy has been busted for using college kids from the elite schools in fake protests more than once. On the other hand, it would be nice to be able to verify in some way what is happening now.

The only thing I can fall back on is, the counter protesters have always outnumbered the Gucci protesters and in this piece, the AP doesn't even mention them. Something is goofy with this report.

[tabasco]

2. The "pro-government" National Assembly?

Would someone clue in this idiot reporter that the National Assembly is PART of the government in Venezuela. Thanks!

[EFerrari]

24. It's so bizarre, isn't it?

Coming up, Venezuela government imposes constitutional reforms after overwhelming approval from pro-Chavez sectarians.

:rofl:

[paulk]

28. since the opposition boycotted the elections, there is no

opposition to the President in the National Assembly. It seems obvious that is what the reporter was referring to.

[tabasco]

31. If you boycott elections in a democracy,

you should just STFU.

Even in a parliamentary system, it is very poor verbiage to say "pro-government government" or "anti-government government."

The only thing obvious is that the reporter is a moron.

[Dr. Strange]

38. They didn't boycott...

they voted for Nader.

I know, tomayto, tomahto...

[stimbox]

3. Democracy in action!

Maybe we can get some of that Democracy here with Citgo's low cost heating oil shipments.

[Rageneau]

4. This is exactly the kind of thing the oligarchs fear ... and deserve.

[EFerrari]

16. And they're going to do everything in their power to derail it

with BushCo's help. Good luck to them. The people are on the move.

[leftchick]

5. NON-Western NON-Biased NON-AP Source Here.....

one should always read both versions of events especially after the failed coup attempt of 2003....

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/2796


Students Clash with Police in Effort to Get to Venezuela’s Electoral Council

November 2nd 2007, by Kiraz Janicke – Venezuelanalysis.com



Opposition protestors throw rocks and bottles at Caracas police force (ABN)

Caracas, November 2, 2007 (venezuelanalysis.com) - Violent clashes took place yesterday between opposition students and the police when students tried to break police lines near Venezuela's National Electoral Council building. Students and members of opposition political parties had marched on the National Electoral Council (CNE) in Caracas to deliver a document calling for the referendum on President Hugo Chavez's constitutional reforms, scheduled for December 2, to be postponed.

As the march passed through the relatively poorer area of Parque Central, the protest was met with spontaneous cries from Chavez supporters of "Chavez is not going" and "They will not return" . Several thousand pro-Chavez students and supporters from the poorer neighbourhoods in Caracas also gathered at the CNE in a counter protest in support of the reforms.

Chanting "No to the reforms," the opposition students carried banners and placards openly calling for violence, as well as pictures of various CNE rectors, describing them as "traitors to the country."

When the opposition protest arrived at approximately 2pm, the CNE directors received a delegation from the students, giving them drinks and cake as they handed over their document. However, on leaving the student delegation attempted to chain themselves to stair well in the entrance of the building before being removed by the National Guard.

The protest then turned violent as the opposition students attempted to break through the police security cordon to get into the CNE, throwing rocks and bottles and setting fire to trash cans, trees and street poles. The police and National Guard then responded with teargas, water canon, and plastic shrapnel to disperse the crowd.

[Rage for Order]

27. LOL

I'd hardly consider venezuelanalysis.com non-biased. It's about as non-biased as whitehouse.gov or Soviet-era Pravda

[EFerrari]

32. No. venezuelanalysis has never been caught fabricating

unlike the other "sources" you name. Try again.

[rjones2818]

6. The Venezuelan people get to vote on the changes

on December 2. Let's see what the majority in Venezuela want!

[ShaneGR]

7. Slight problem....

One vote for 70 changes. This would be the equivalent of congress passing 70 bills on a wide range of issues and then calling for one vote on all 70 changes. That's dangerous because you can throw in five good changes with 65 bad changes. That's not democracy, at least in my mind.

[rjones2818]

8. Apparently...

That's what their law requires.

[EFerrari]

13. There's a thread in the Latin America forum that explains

all the changes plus the government's outreach to enable informed debate all over the country. It was a huge task, actually.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x393

[Dorian Gray]

9. Hopefully they will vote to maintain their freedoms

[rjones2818]

10. Would that be a Yes or no vote to the constitutional changes?

No complaint, just wondering?

[Dorian Gray]

12. Ah... you caught me...

I don't actually know. Voting is their first freedom.

I'm always on the fence with Chavez. I read both sides of the arguments about him and what he is doing, and with each argument, I flip sides.

However, in this situation, it makes me wary that all sorts of constitutional changes are being addressed in only one bill. (Or whatever it will be termed as in Venezuela.) It reeks of our politicians throwing in something totally unrelated to a bill so that they can pass some sort of resolution that nobody will notice. And if I were a politician in that country, I'd be railing against that. I'd prefer to address each constitutional ammendment as its own individual piece. So, I suppose that I hope that the Venezuelans would vote "No." Though I suspect that many of the reforms within the document will be attractive to the majority of voters, leading to a "Yes" vote without the population fully understanding the extent with which their vote may change the political structure of Venezuela.

[ShaneGR]

17. Informed unbiased thinking is good...

I like the way you think

[Judi Lynn]

23. I read this afternoon that Chavez prefers the idea of doing it in several different sections,

at different times.

Also, he proposed 33 amendments, and others were added by public consultation until there were 69.

[EFerrari]

15. It would be a "yes" vote. One of the reforms is to establish

local community councils to determine local needs and to develop local solutions that will be funded by the central government.

BushCo has been going nuts over Chavez being given the ability to run again. That's no different than the system that many countries have and Venezuela's elections are cleaner than ours.

What is happening in Venezuela is very exciting right now. The people who have been sidelined for so long are actively being brought into the process. Sort of the opposite of what is happening here.

[Judi Lynn]

26. What makes the Bush reaction even stranger is the fact Bush's corporate media has chose to almost

SMOTHER the story that _Bush's little pet in Colombia, Alvaro Uribe, is already floating the idea around his country that it would be in the best interest of Colombia if he got the necessary changes made in their constitution so that he could run for a third time.

You probably read it in the U.S. press maybe once then it disappeared almost without a ripple. You have to go looking for it to know it has ever happened. They are definitely trying to keep this quiet. It would make them look like hypocrites if word got out that they favor expanded terms for their right-wing, death squad loving, little man Uribe.

[EFerrari]

29. It's not "dictatorship" when BuchCo shills do it.

Get with the program. :)

You have a much better handle than I do on the whole region.

I'm still flabbergasted when I try to dig into a story like this and it turns out to be a double order of nothing. A double order that our tax dollars are paying for.

[The Straight Story]

19. They are all paid CIA operatives ya know

:)

[EFerrari]

20. It's our government's announced policy to destabilize Venezuela.

That's not funny. I've known too many Spaniards.

[The Straight Story]

21. So then your take on it? Are they all paid RW shills?

Or are they free spirited people who think it is a bad idea, etc?

[EFerrari]

22. This is the evil thing. There are some that are kids of the oligarchy.

This group has been documented as being produced on cue with SCRIPTS, lol! These are the Gucci protesters who don't know to wear flats to a protest. I can't read their minds.

And, at every single one of these deals, the counter, pro Chavez kids outnumber the Guccis. But this article doesn't even mention counter protesters.

And that's the pattern. When I searched Reuters photos today trying to figure out what the heck was happening, the only shot that shows a big group is obviously both groups in one frame. :shrug:

[UTUSN]

25. "permit him to run for re-election indefinitely." But DEMOCRATICALLY, of course!!1

Poor students!1 It'll take TWENTY years to get that a-hole OUT of everybody's a-hole!1

[EFerrari]

30. Why do you hate free elections?

:)

[UTUSN]

33. BwahahaHAH!1 But since we're pals, do NOT go to 'zuela, but if you do, I'll

liberate you out of there, from whatever Gitmo Hugo sets up for people who speak their minds, like you!!1

[High Plains]

34. Tell you what: Come back when you have YOUR country together.

[UTUSN]

36. Get back to me, I'll consider it when Hugo stops butting into other countries!!1 n/t

[EFerrari]

35. ;= ) How come nobody writes the article, "Gay rights written into

Venezuelan constitution"? If that happened here, it would be in big screaming headlines everywhere.

[UTUSN]

37. Since when is throwing a crumb to one constituent group a trade-off/justification for throwing out

the baby with the bathwater?!1

[EFerrari]

39. What baby has gone missing? The guy still has to run

and run in an election system that is better than ours.

Well, you know how I feel. I'm excited about what they're doing and he could still go wrong. :shrug: