Since I basically think not even FDR could steer clear

[Joe for Clark]

of this mine field you put OUR country into Mr B*sh - free advise.

This is not the pelopenisian war - and you aren't Leonidas.

Back Turkey and screw Iraq - you will probably need to let go of Baghdad to do it.

DO it. You have no choice - your advisers are what 0 for 100 so far. You cannot gamble here - don't bluff. You seem like an addicted gambler to me -

I don't know what Turkey wanted a few weeks ago - when they were basically begging you to honor a treaty - I am sure the price went up now. Pay it.

It has its own set of consequences I suppose - but you just hit the wall. SO - if they wanted 3 brigades up on the border before and now they want 6 - that just proves you are an inept negotiator - and that you should fire your advisors.

Don't screw this up - that has a much more dire set of consequences -for you and the country -personally I don't care about you - I do care about the country.

Joe

[ljm2002]

1. Up to about 4 years ago...

...I used to have fantasies of writing well-reasoned, passionate pleas to president Bush, begging him to do this or that reasonable thing, or not to do this or that unreasonable thing.

Then I woke up to the fact that it was pure fantasy.

The man is incapable of listening to reason. Maybe it's because it's Cheney's call anyway (and I never had any fantasies that Cheney might listen to reason), or maybe it's because he's just such a stupid arrogant asshole -- well obviously both of those things come into play.

So I hear you, Joe, and I wish he or someone near him would listen. But they won't. All we can do is watch helplessly as things turn to shit even more than they already have. Or demonstrate and get arrested. Or write and call our Senators and Representatives, hoping they will do something effective for a change.

I'm glad your son, at least, is out of harm's way. Too bad the rest of our troops will bear the brunt of this lunatic's policies.

[Joe for Clark]

2. I cannot - not try.

Listen the neo cons really did - by their own admission - not just us "wierdo" grad history students use that war as their ideal - my god, you know how that turned out??

Jesus - at some point he has to hear some voice of reason - at some point -hopefully not too late. I think he is stupid - I do - but not this stupid.

How many times can any one bang their head into a wall without recognizing there is a wall there?

I have tried to say this - we may just go down as a country over these events - we may. But if we go down - I am going down fighting all the way.

Joe

[ljm2002]

3. More power to you!

I did not mean to disparage your statement, nor any attempts at communication -- I just despair of the possibility of having a positive effect when we are being ruled by lunatics.

In fact I've been wondering lately, if the real reason everyone is so cowed by Herr Bush, may be that they are worried about his mental stability with his finger on the proverbial atomic trigger? Maybe that is the source of the fear that keeps anyone from being an effective counter to him getting what he wants?

If true, that would not make them any less misguided though.

Anyway -- appreciate your insights.

[Joe for Clark]

4. There is nothing you could do to lower my opinion of you.

Anyone here - cause each of you, you tried to do the right.

We don't have to agree on anything - it doesn't matter.

Joe