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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 12:59 AM
Original message
Apollo scientists found ancient ruins on the Moon
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20071022/pl_usnw/enterpris...

The following media advisory was issued today by the Enterprise Mission:

Dear Colleague,

My name is Cheryll Jones, former news anchor at CNN.

I have a news alert I think you, as a member of fourth estate in these very troubled times, will appreciate.

Think of it as a "heads up" on what might become one of the most important stories of the coming months.

At 9:00 AM, Tuesday, October 30, 2007, at the National Press Club in Washington DC, The Enterprise Mission - a private research and public policy group - will hold a press briefing in the NPC Zenger Room.

The subject: Why is NASA Determined to Launch Space Shuttle "Discovery" October 23rd, Despite NASA Engineering and Safety Center Warnings NOT to Launch? Has NASA Learned NOTHING from the Previous Schedule-Driven Disasters of Challenger and Columbia? Are Classified NASA Lunar Findings Secretly Pressuring the Aging Shuttle Program to Completion by 2010, to Make Way for "Constellation" -- and the New "Space Race" to the Moon?

Japan is currently in lunar orbit with the most sophisticated lunar mission since Apollo. China is about to launch a major unmanned lunar mission, on October 24th. In April, 2008 India will launch its first comprehensive unmanned lunar mission. And, Russia recently announced its own ambitious lunar plans -- for not only sending cosmonauts to the Moon by 2025, but establishment of a permanent moonbase soon after.

All this on the heels of President George W. Bush's own "Vision for Space Exploration" (VSE) - his sudden decision to "return Americans to manned lunar exploration" ... made inexplicably, in the middle of his war.
more...

Fascinating and now the Russians have gotten the story and running with it
http://english.pravda.ru/science/mysteries/31-10-2007/9...

The former manager of the Data and Photo Control Department at NASAs Lunar Receiving Laboratory during the manned Apollo Lunar Program, Ken Johnston, has released quite a number of sensational statements recently in the USA. The specialist said that U.S. astronauts found ancient ruins of artificial origin and a previously unknown technology to control gravitation when then landed on the Moon. Astronauts took pictures of the objects that they found, but NASA ordered Johnston to destroy the images. Johnston did not follow the order. He said that the U.S. government had been keeping this information a secret for 40 years.




Johnston's startling Apollo allegations have recently appeared in a new book, "Dark Mission: the Secret History of NASA," co-authored by former NASA consultant and CBS Science Advisor, Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara, an aerospace engineering consultant. According to Kay Ferrari, JPL Director of the SSA Program (in a phone call to Johnston last week), it was Johnston "being quoted criticizing NASA in Hoagland's new book, 'Dark Mission,'" that prompted her to ask for Johnston's resignation from the SSA Program. When Johnston refused, citing First Amendment protections of free speech afforded all NASA employees, even those at JPL, Ferrari apparently decided to remove him arbitrarily from the SSA Program this week without cause.

The low quality pictures included in the book depict ruins of buildings, huge dome-like objects made of glass, stone towers and castled hanging in the air.

I have nothing to lose. I have quarreled with NASA and I got fired, Ken Johnston said.
more...

NASA isn't a civilain agency but a military one
Amazing news coming out
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. You've never encounted a Hoagland hoax before have you
Hoagland is a bit of a nutter. Don't hold your breath waiting for any real evidence to come from this claim.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
80. Hoagland is not a hoaxer, that implys that does what he does to decieve.
hoax
n.
1. An act intended to deceive or trick.
2. Something that has been established or accepted by fraudulent means.

I think he sees these "artifact" things because he so desperately wants it to be true.
Most of these photos have, at best, interesting looking fuzzy forms, but so do a lot of cloud formations.
About the only thing that gave me any pause was "The Face On Mars" and the surrounding formations. But even then...



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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Hoagland lies somewhere between pure hoax and true believer
He makes a living off it. He has been caught far to many times bending the truth and in such a way that its obvious he is bending it. He may be a believer but he's not ashamed to twist things to convince others or to sell books.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. No monoliths ?

Uh, Dave ...
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. I know there are ancient ruins on the moon
Soviet and American hardware dating back to the 1960's. I have been assured by my children that this qualifies as ancient.
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Okay then
How much do I have to spend on a telescope to see "ruins of buildings, huge dome-like objects made of glass, stone towers and castled hanging in the air." I'd venture to say that if the dome-like objects are truly huge, I should be able to spot them with a $500 telescope on a clear night. I'm amazed that none of the millions of amateur astronomers have noticed these structures yet.
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Blashyrkh Donating Member (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Cause they are on the 'dark side' as it were, the side we never see.
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. There is no dark side of the moon.
As a matter of fact, it's all dark.
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Blashyrkh Donating Member (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'm referring to the far side of the moon that never faces earth, not the colour.
Forgive my archaic terms.
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I was referring to a line from a Pink Floyd album.
Forgive my archaic musical reference...
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. You know, my head explodes with dark forebodings too.
I think we should meet up. But where?
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. It's so weird how at the bottom of the page there is a link for Pink Floyd Ring Tones
and Dark Side of the Moon. I know it's all automatic and I should expect to see it, but it's still creepy.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
44. This thread
inspired me to search my files for Wish you Were here...
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Blashyrkh Donating Member (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
69. I've never actually listened to that album, only The Wall. They just ain't heavy enough for me.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. You needs good drugs.
Edited on Thu Nov-01-07 07:25 PM by Atman
It's a total headphone-album. Big, cushioned, noise-canceling headphones. And a blacklight. And incense. It doesn't sound as good without incense. If you're able, get naked, too, with a good friend (you'll need a headphone jack splitter).

Then it's probably the best album in the world.

Oh, did I say "play it on vinyl?" No? Good, cuz it doesn't matter if you're high enough.

.
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Blashyrkh Donating Member (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. I got everything except the friend to get naked with, and the album.
I've done the headphones/black room with War of the Worlds, on vinyl. I'll have to check it out.
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Or for free
you can look at the high-resolution images on the following sites :)

Apollo Image Archive

Metric Preview

The Project Apollo Archive
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. LOL!
I'm posting from a Martian-made canal on Mars. :D


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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
59. Google tunnels of Mars and see what you get
It may just surprise you. See some real NASA photos of unexplained phenomena..
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Google is good, but I prefer to obtain data directly from satellites and data clearinghouses.
Since I work with IR and stereoscopic imagery (photogrammetry), spectroscopy (remote sensing), and mapping (GIS), etc., and have some academic training in astrophysics, I have seen plenty of Mars photos. ;)

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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yahoo News ran the story... Did anyone follow up on the news conference?
It is just as important for credible people to listen and critique obviously false and/or inaccurate allegations based on evidence, as it is for those same credible people to verify the truth of those allegations.

I know nothing about the parties mentioned, but I would interested to know why Yahoo News ran the story before the news conference, and then did not follow up after the news conference.

Seems like they owe their readers that much.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. exactly whats up with the reporters somethings a bit wierd here
thanks Blackhatjack
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yahoo News is not actually anything.
It simply aggregates various feeds and wires. They carry AP, AFP, and Reuters--but they also carry any number of corporate press releases, political hacks, and bogus wires.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Well you learn something everyday that the News media is
scum balls @#!$%^&
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Well, they're not news media per se, but they serve a purpose.
Their job is simply to bring together all wire services they can. They clearly show where it came from. And corporate press releases, while often scummy, are also often very useful for businesspeople--if Boeing announces that they sold forty 787s to United, say, they'll put out a press release, and people who subscribe to Boeing alerts will get that.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. So they just put Press Releases out with nobody watching
what if I wanted to put a Press Release out that They found McDonald's on Mars and the Big Macs cost 40,000 dollars

if I paid they would print it WOW
Thanks I learn something everyday
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Yep. But nobody would pay any attention to that.
The editors wouldn't put it on the news lists, and most people wouldn't find it, as their news pages only show the things which are from actual wires. The only way someone would find it is if:

1. They were browsing that particular PR wire.
2. They were searching that day's news for a keyword you had.
3. They had a news alert for your keyword.

And most people would see the "PR wire" logo and realize it was just trash.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Ya I saw it on Pravda headlines and then yahooed search
and there it was

WOW sneaky sneaky

whats a unsuspecting goofball to do

:argh:
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yeah, Pravda's awful too.
They run absolutely anything. They don't fact-check. Just look at this one:
http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/25-10-2007/9951...

It's all pretty tough, I agree. The Internet makes things hard--it's too easy for creeps, crooks, and liars to sneak into places you thought were trustworthy. I usually try to make sure to double-check where everything I read comes from--you know, look for the logo or byline of a wire or paper I've heard of. If I can't see one, well...I start to get suspicious.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. So Yahoo News is an 'open pipe' through which anything can flow with the label news attached?
Someone at Yahoo exercises some journalistic discretion regarding what appears under their byline, or else you would see only porno and gambling stories at their site.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. ROFL it really is a disgrace to Yahoo news
don't they have any controls

though I believe some of the News in the article is factual
Like Johnston being a archivist for NASA photography

I haven't heard any prove that isn't true or that he has pictures that he didn't destroy
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Well, sorta.
They have editorial staff, and that's who determines what makes the front pages--or really, anything most people can see. They're very careful not to put their byline there, though; they tell you who it's from. That "yahoo news" logo isn't a mark of quality or anything--it's just branding to remind you where you are. That's often abused by hacks and scumbags who prey on people who aren't that familiar with Yahoo! News, true.

They do run press releases, but that's because press releases are often very valuable. Example: you're an investor in McDonalds. McDonalds puts out a press release detailing its most recent profits. You subscribe to a Yahoo! News feed that alerts you for all McDonalds news, and that press release ends up in your inbox.

It's best with any internet news feed to check what the actual source is. I've embarrassed myself in the past by not looking. Once burned, twice shy, so they say.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. I will definitely let this thread die quickly LOL!!!
I will next time check it out more thoroughly
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
9. so this Johnston guy never worked for NASA or was manager
of the archives for NASA

and he is lying

Well this is really silly of both of them

I guess when the other countries get there maybe we will find out the truth

Maybe

Just reporting whats on the news channels out there
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. I've been flamed for linking to a news article asking if anyone knows the truth....
People forget that testing the allegations, facts, evidence, is all a part of being a responsible member of the engaged public.

You don't just read the material that you already agree with before reading it, do you?

So far there does not appear to be any followup by Yahoo News, and the news conference obviously already happened if it occurred when they said it would.

If Yahoo News just leaves this hanging, that will just reinforce the idea that online news organizations have no standards and ethics.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. exactly if it would have just been Pravda I would have been
skeptical cause the Russians have certain twists to stories

but that it was on Yahoo stunned me and the article was bizarre too

I was wondering what others thought

It really is bad reporting on yahoo's part
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. It's not reporting. Yahoo is not a news service.
They're a content aggregator. It's your responsibility to see who actually wrote it.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
53. Yahoo posts a lot of scientifically inaccurate pieces from time to time
They seem to like to go for the bizarre without being at all skeptical about their sources. Pop "science" so to speak. Perpetual motion machine stories and old, discredited scientific theories seem to be popular with them too...
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. It's not a news item - it's a press release
Notice the "PRNewswire" source. Anyone can write one of these, pay a small fee and get it on Yahoo. I've used a similar service for my company's PR releases.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. If that is true... then the Prostitution of Yahoo News is complete.
It does not change the principle that we all need to be open to reading and examining information that might not be accurate and truthful if we are to arrive at the truth.

There is no benevolent filter out there making sure we read only 'good things.'

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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. It never was a news service.
It's a content aggregator. They store anything and everything, and they always have. You can poke around and find all sorts of stuff, but unless it bears the mark of a news service you recognize, ignore it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Yahoo is now banned as a news source on DU?
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Ya I haven't heard that they always were suppose to be the
prime news source lots of people use Yahoo News as a source
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. They do--sort of.
What they're actually using is AP, AFP, Tribune, Reuters, or any number of the legit newswires. Yahoo! is a convenient place to store them. But they also store things that are not actual newswires. HuffPo shows up there. So does RealClearPolitics and the Weekly Standard. Check the logo to see who you're actually getting.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. ahhh there like Big News Network a collection of headlines
all around the world

Big News now has the links go directly to the source cause a bunch of people were complaining about that

Yahoo should do that too

Going down hill
Thanks
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. I certainly wish Yahoo! did that too.
The current system does lead to a fair amount of abuse.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. It's not a news source.
The news sources are the wires (AP, Reuters, etc). Yahoo! simply aggregates them.

Look at this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071101/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/a... ;_ylt=AhX0yVBnlayeWR36O5pPynms0NUE

Next to the headline, you see the AP logo. This is an AP story. You're golden.

Now look at this one:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20071101/sc_livesci... ;_ylt=AiPQqyJS7IsxHnAcg0oaoFGs0NUE

Next to the headline, you see the LiveScience logo. This is a LiveScience story. Probably pretty good, but if you're not familiar with LiveScience, you'd want to check them out first.

Now look at this one:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20071031/cm_r... ;_ylt=AoXiK7oFD27Asrh2K8YH8uas0NUE

Next to the headline, you see the RealClearPolitics logo. This is an RCP story. Probably trash.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Isn't that the freakin truth
all you can do is read it and try to discern between the lines if it is right or wrong

this is so sad
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Well I'll be dang that is decieving the public
cause it has yahoo news

I'm ticked
:argh:

just let the thread die

You can see why I made the mistake
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. If he had worked there for the last 40+ years
I'm sure that we would have met. I met tons of people from JPL... and video conferenced with data storage people around NASA every week for years. I don't recall ever meeting a "Ken Johnston" from JPL. And since I was one of the primary people doing data recovery of the planetary probe datasets (program manager for the datasets kept at NASA Ames), I'm sure that I would have met him. However, "Ken Johnston" is one of those names... sounds familiar, but maybe not... and it's been a while since I worked for NASA as Chief Scientist and Principle Architect of Data Storage Systems. So... who knows, maybe he worked at JPL and we didn't meet... or maybe I just can't remember him... or maybe he didn't really work at JPL doing what he claims to have done. I just don't know. But I don't think so.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. You Have Been Trolled. Have A Nice Day. nt
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. you should know better
and yes I do believe in reincarnation
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
43. I guess I'll step in here...

I worked for NASA for 10 years, from 1989 to 1999. My title was Chief Scientist. (before anyone is too impressed, there were quite a number of these, plus a large number of equally lofty titles). My area of expertise was creating large data storage systems. I created a 3 PB data store at NASA Ames (which was replicated to a large degree at NASA Goddard). I worked with CFD scientists (rocket science is easy, aerodynamics is hard!) and planetary scientists. I worked closely with the DAO (Data Acquisition Office, part of the EOSDIS program, which was part of the MTPE or Mission to Planet Earth). I also was a principle program manager for the Planetary Probe data recovery program (basically there were a lot of very old 7 track tapes which were stored in basements of buildings at Ames and JPL... so old the oxide was falling off of the substrate, but the data was from the Apollo missions, the Mariner missions, Viking and even Voyager). My team helped recover the data from the tapes and piece it together with recovered data stored at JPL and then convert it from some very old formats to more modern formats and re-archive it in our brand new archival storage system (of my invention).

In order to know if the data was correct, it was required that someone visually inspect the images (turns out that is the best way to do it), so I looked at hundreds of images from that era.

I can categorically state that I never saw anything strange. Which is not to say that someone couldn't have culled the images they were archived originally, but the archives I reviewed didn't have anything strange or alien or whatever in them. I don't remember meeting anyone named Ken Johnston from JPL... and it would be highly unlikely that anyone who was with the Agency as a manager of the Lunar Receiving Laboratory would still be with NASA some 35 years after the last Apollo mission so he could be asked to resign in the last few weeks (which the story above states). Again, it is possible, but in my 10 years at the agency now almost 10 years ago, I don't remember meeting even one person who was there for Apollo. I'm sure that I did, but I certainly don't remember it... and as a space junkie since I was a kid watching Apollo 11 land, I would have been thrilled to meet someone that worked in the agency back in those days.

I can also state with authority that NASA is not a military agency, though it does do classified work for the military and it's contractors. The agency also worked closely with DARPA while I was there.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. Great Post
Thank you for your work...glad you were able to recover and archive all that data.

The "Cheryl Jones" set off my red flags. I've watched CNN for years...especially in the 80s and 90s and never recall that name. But tin foil hats are sold so easily these days.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Actually, there is a Cheryl Jones
and she used to be on the Weather Channel (meteorologist). I wouldn't be surprised if she did a stint for CNN.

I tried to google an image of her (thinking it would be easy) and can't get one. Anyway, she is listed in the Wikipedia entry for The Weather Channel as a past on air personality. And google says she chairs UFO conferences around the US. So she is likely a real person. How much to believe the weather person is another issue.
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. Here you go, one Cheryll Jones coming up
Edited on Thu Nov-01-07 05:24 AM by MagickMuffin


Her website: it has a photo gallery, which she went through several hair do changes.
http://www.cherylljones.com /

I was curious about the OP, so I went the NPC's website and they did indeed host an event for Johnston. Johnston was reported to be showing these images at the conference.
http://npc.press.org/calendar/caldbevent.cfm?eventid=14...


http://www.enterprisemission.com/NPC2007.htm

I also checked C-SPAN's schedule to see if they covered it or will be airing it. So, far I haven't seen anything on it being televised by C-SPAN. Sometimes they cover NPC events.

Who knows what the truth is in these kinds of matters? I certainly don't know and would never presume that I did. I find it fascinating, just the same.

Thanks for being a Space Pioneer/Engineer. Now tell me when will we migrate to a new star system :evilgrin:

on edit: added another pic



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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. That whole thing about NASA being a "defense agency"
is bogus bullshit.

Yes, such language is in the charter. NASA was from the former NACA (National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics), which had a definite defense component. NACA was formed to help design new planes (mostly military planes). There are certain NASA centers who still have a primary focus on Aeronautics, such as NASA Ames in California and NASA Langley in Virginia. Almost all big government programs in the 1950s were "defense related" because that was the height of the "red scare" and your agency had a much better chance of funding if you could show that it was defense related. One should remember how the Interstate Highway system came into being, how it was justified to Congress.

NASA did do (and probably still does) quite a bit of classified work for the military and the defense contractors, specifically in certain aeronautics and space technology development. NASA has the largest collection of wind tunnels of any organization on the planet, and the largest single wind tunnel in the world (the 80 by 120 at Ames... my office had a window that had a great view of the air intake of that wind tunnel, and we used to play soccer and frisbee on the grass field right in front of the huge intake)




If a Ken Johnston worked for JPL, I sure never met him. OF course, thousands worked at NASA while I was there, but I worked in his stated field of expertise (data archival)... so I feel that I should have at least met him. I certainly knew my counterparts that worked at other NASA locations... and we all attended the same IEEE and ACM conferences on the subject. I also knew a lot of people from DOE labs and even the DOD, EPA, and even some people that worked for the not to be named agencies. I visited JPL frequently, and once was even "loaned out" to JPL for a period of weeks. I just don't remember him. Perhaps someone has a photo from this news conference of him and that will jog my memory.

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LunaSea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. Obviously, lapfog_1 is in on the conspiracy
Come on lapfog_1, how much are they paying you?
Tell us, dammit...
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. I WISH!
Edited on Thu Nov-01-07 03:55 AM by lapfog_1
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Actually, I left NASA to found my own high tech company. Sold it to Quantum in 2003 and I've been semi-retired since then (well, I own a very small trucking company - 1 truck - and I'm doing a bio fuels business using algae for the oil - it's fascinating). Also, up until recently, I owned a Latin nightclub in the Bay Area.

Still, some extra payments to keep me quiet would be NICE! (And I know you NSA guys are reading this. Send another check dammit!)
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. How nice to run into someone who actually knows what a seven
track tape was!
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Actually recovered data from them using metal dust particles!
and hand held magnifying glass. The tapes were in very bad shape. First we tired recovering them by finding the missing blocks on other copies of the tapes, but a few were so valuable and either not duplicated or the duplicates were corrupt as well that the "manual" method of reading tapes was used. Thank god for block checksums!

I later wrote a paper about this and the impact on future archival storage system designs, basically arguing that not only did the archive system need to have the bandwidth to serve current usage (data acquisition and data retrieval) but we also needed sufficient devices and bandwidth to read the entire archive, change formats, and re-archive it within a 3 to 5 year period so that we wouldn't be in that situation again. The storage doubling rate (at that time) was every 11 months, so a properly designed system which needed to last 5 to 10 years needed to have about 12 times the bandwidth of the present usage (11 for the doubling rate over 10 years, plus 1 more to read the entire archive to date). At the time it was thought that all you needed was some sort of permanent media... but we pointed out that this was insufficient, you need to archive the systems that wrote the data as well (hardware devices, channel hardware, computers, operating systems and applications)... and that was going to be near impossible given the rate of change and the expense of maintaining functioning hardware and software for decades. Far better to read the entire archive, reformat the data and rewrite it every 3 to 5 years.

Fully less than 2 percent of all data archived was ever recalled (pretty standard across the industry). You could save a lot of money if you only knew WHICH 2 percent would be looked at again (this is for data that is more than 3 years old).
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. Your point is well taken.
I can imagine and shake my head at the thought of trying to reinstall and get running a system of the sixties--imagining IBM 1401 and early 360 systems. Even by the mid sixties it uncommon to have to "develop" data visually from tape,

It seems the fate of humanity to lose its own history, whether on political battlefields or records of hard-won scientific endeavors.

Twenty years or so ago, I read a science fiction story that featured a young man who had deliberately schooled himself in the forgotten arts of keypunching and unit record data processing so that he could occupy a position in government that placed zero demands on him.
To his consternation, a warehouse containing vital information in the form of 5081cards and dusty old keypunches, verifiers and tabulating equipment, was opened up and he had to produce the data in a usable form for his distant generation.

You've led an interesting life.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Hey lapfog two questions what is this JPL that Johnston
either resigned or was terminated??? And if NASA does do Military missions because I remember when I was visiting NASA they told visitors that the Military had secret missions on the shuttle

am I right on that one

That of course being military those missions would be secret right

are you saying the military never conducted secret missions on the shuttles???

All NASA missions are all civilain on the loads and missions

Don't alot of the commanders hail titles from the Military with their ranks
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Jet Propulsion Laboratory
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #64
77. Yes, NASA does do secret military shuttle missions.

Mostly they place spy satellites in orbit. Maybe they do some other things, I really wouldn't know.

We did some classified work on military airplanes (like the Joint Strike Fighter), mostly in the area of CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics). Beyond that, I don't know much... and if I did, I couldn't say much about it.

But NASA is not a military agency. Yes, many shuttle astronauts (I had the pleasure of working with one astronaut... who, sadly, was on Columbia when it disintegrated on re-entry) have military ranks... that's because NASA has always wanted the best pilots in the business, test pilots... ex-military pilots. After all, they are flying billion dollar pieces of very unique hardware. They are either on loan from their military appointments or they are recently retired military. In either case, they can retain their former rank. However, not every astronaut (now I would guess not even the majority) are either ex or current military.

I never stated that all NASA missions are civilian... just that NASA is not part of the military or DOD.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #54
70. Yep. That's back in the RLL days ... word marks and stuff.
Edited on Thu Nov-01-07 07:10 PM by TahitiNut
Hell, I even remember when the phase-encoded drives came in. My concept of "huge" has changed over the years. I used to get a real kick out of watching the vacuum-column RCA 301/501 drives in Nam. They had servo-driven feed and take-up triggered by the weight of slack tape on spring-held platforms. Real Rube Goldberg stuff.

(I wrote systems software extensions for data-cell drives. Fun.)

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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #70
78. Ah, yes.
I went to work for IBM in 1966 as the youngest field rep they'd ever hired. I don't know how true that was but so I was told.
The 2400 series drives were the new thing, using what was called NRZI (non return to zero IBM) format, 800 bpi. There was still a bunch of the previous technology in the field and I was expected to train myself on some of the older stuff, since the schools for them were no longer common.
System 360 was still the brand new shiny thing and the computer field was booming.

You can always tell what side of the large computer house someone by how they refer to some of the equipment.

The most interesting nexus of my career and NASA was at Huntsville, Ala,, Redstone.
I got to babysit the system, on which I was never formally trained, during the reorientation of the space station in the late '70s to extend its orbit for a few additional months. We had only one and sort of a half shots at it, middle of the night, of course. Talk about pressure!

This is fun--thanks to the OP for giving me the opportunity to sit and "gas" about old times--as my mother used to call it.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
67. you archived all that stuff? dude, you're my hero.
:yourock:
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #67
76. I had a lot of help... my team had about 7 developers
and something like 2 QA plus another 3 or 4 SysAdmins, plus the 24-7 operations staff.

The one cardinal rule was "Thall shall NOT lose any data!!!", so we had a number of things to ensure that... we developed the RAID disk technology (I had the pleasure of funding Garth Gibson's group at UC Berkeley). And when data arrived at the disk, two immediate copies were written to tape (in two different buildings). At a later point... after the data had not been looked at for a while, the disk copy was released (a UNIX HSM, one of the first in the industry and the one that was used as a model for most future UNIX HSMs). Also, another copy of the data was sent to the East coast so that if the "big one" was to hit California, we would still have a copy. Which was a good thing... I was there for the Loma Prieta quake.

The data that I was most proud to archive was the MTPE data... all that stuff that you can compare to current data to see things like Global Warming and El Nino events.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
50. I scoff in your general direction.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
52. Wait?
How can this be...There was NO moon landing...It was all done in a studio!!!!I'm series!1111!!!!

Holy shit. This has got to take the cake for the dumbest piece of shitty psuedoscience ever posted here.
BTW- this same site Pravda also recently posted a piece about how dolphins used to live side by side with CAVEMEN on land so umm this is a really nutters source.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
55. Hoagland is a fraud and Mike Bera is a right-wing freak. Pseudo-scientific bullshit.
Edited on Thu Nov-01-07 10:26 AM by Beelzebud
I've seen that movie before, it's called 2001: A Space Odyssey.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
56. Color me very skeptical about Hoagland and the Enterprise Mission.
And yes, I've read a lot of it.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #56
68. very entertaining--and I "want to believe"
yet I find myself skeptical w Hoagland. I like his articles about Iapetus though--very interesting

http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon1.htm

Is that a moon made out of a giant 2 part mold? or?

And what are all those hexagons? How can those be natural?

well, it doesn't hurt to wonder. Except to some folks around here who think wondering about mysterious things is a crime, not entertainment. There are plenty on this thread!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
62. Heres some updates for the curious
http://feralhouse.com/fh_blog/archives/2007/10/nasa_cov...

Dr. Ken Johnston, former Manager of the Data and Photo Control Department at NASAs Lunar Receiving Laboratory during NASAs manned Apollo Lunar Program, was abruptly terminated Tuesday morning, October 23rd, from JPLs prestigious Solar System Ambassador (SSA) Program. All evidence of Dr. Johnstons exemplary 4-year participation in the NASA outreach effort to communicate the importance of NASA aerospace programs to the public around the world has been scrubbed from the official JPL SSA website, without formal notification of Dr. Johnston as to cause.

Johnston is a key participant in the upcoming October 30th, 2007 Enterprise Mission press briefing at the National Press Club in Washington, DC (Zenger Room, 9 a.m.). At that time, Johnston will reveal how NASA ordered him to destroy key Apollo lunar images and data more than 40 years ago, rather than allow them to be preserved for academic and public study. Johnston will testify how he disobeyed these NASA orders, secretly preserving the critical Apollo imagesand the never-officially-published lunar discoveries recorded on them. According to AP, NASA is currently embroiled in a similar controversy with Congress because of the agencys planned destruction of supporting data from a recent aviation safety study.
snip...

PLs ultimate decision to fire Dr. Johnston was initiated, according to Ferraris phone call, by an initial inquiry to JPL from James Oberg, of NBC News. Oberg is a former NASA contractor and a colleague of Johnstons at NASAs Manned Spacecraft Center during the Apollo Program in the 1970s. According to Ferrari, Oberg, in his e-mails, raised serious issues regarding Johnstons credentials and his crackpot accusations against the agency. Obergs NASA contractor history begs ethical questions regarding his efforts to get Johnston terminated, based on Johnstons testimony in Dark Mission and intention to present further missing Apollo images and data at the National Press Club.
more...

So NBC got him fired from JPL wonder what JPL is?

Heres another one on the firing

http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY...

NASA Dismisses Former Apollo Photo and Data Manager from JPL
Educational Program Missing Apollo Data to be Shown at National Press Club
Briefing Oct. 30

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M., Oct. 25 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Dr. Ken Johnston,
former Manager of the Data and Photo Control Department at NASA's Lunar
Receiving Laboratory during NASA's manned Apollo Lunar Program, was
abruptly terminated Tuesday morning, October 23rd, from JPL's prestigious
"Solar System Ambassador" (SSA) Program. All evidence of Dr. Johnston's
exemplary 4-year participation in the NASA outreach effort to "communicate
the importance of NASA aerospace programs to the public around the world"
has been scrubbed from the official JPL SSA website, without formal
notification of Dr. Johnston as to cause.

Johnston is a key participant in the upcoming October 30th, 2007
Enterprise Mission press briefing at the National Press Club in Washington,
DC (Zenger Room, 9:00 AM). At that time, Johnston will reveal how NASA
ordered him to destroy key Apollo lunar images and data more than 40 years
ago, rather than allow them to be preserved for academic and public study.
Johnston will testify how he disobeyed these NASA orders, secretly
preserving the critical Apollo images -- and the never-officially-published
lunar discoveries recorded on them. According to AP, NASA is currently
embroiled in a similar controversy with Congress because of the agency's
planned destruction of supporting data from a recent aviation safety study.

more...

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/missapllox.htm

Subject: Fwd: Missing Apollo Photo's Appear

Date: 10/29/2007 4:00:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time

This oughta be good :-)

October 29, 2007
PRG
Forwarded Press Release
Enterprise Mission
Press Conference
National Press Club - Zenger Room
Tuesday, October 30, 9 am
NASA Coverups Continue: Fired NASA Whistleblower to Reveal New Apollo
Secrets Kept Classified by Space Agency for Over 40 Years.

Dr. Ken Johnston, former Manager of the Data and Photo Control Division
at NASA's Lunar Receiving Laboratory during the manned Apollo Lunar
Exploration Effort in the 1970's, was abruptly terminated Tuesday
morning, October 23rd, from NASA's prestigious "Solar System Ambassador"
(SSA) Program at JPL. The firing was direct reprisal for Johnston's
published account in a New York Times Best Seller, "Dark Mission: the
Secret History of NASA," of how NASA ordered him, 40 years ago, to
destroy key Apollo lunar images and data -- rather than allow them to be
preserved for academic study and public view.


Johnston will testify at an Enterprise Mission sponsored National Press
Club news conference this Tuesday, October 30th (Zenger Room, 9:00 am) ,
how he disobeyed these NASA orders, secretly preserving the critical
Apollo images. Johnston will then show some of the "missing" Apollo
frames -- which confirm the existence of long-rumored "ancient
artificial ruins and technology on the Moon," discovered by the Apollo
astronauts but legally classified under the 1958 Space Act by NASA for
over 40 years.

http://press.org/calendar/calendarday.cfm?whatday=30&&w...

Fired NASA Whistleblower to Reveal New Apollo Secrets Kept Classified by Space Agency for Over 40 Years.

Dr. Ken Johnston, former Manager of the Data and Photo Control Division at NASA's Lunar Receiving Laboratory during the manned Apollo Lunar Exploration Effort in the 1970's, was abruptly terminated Tuesday morning, October 23rd, from NASA's prestigious "Solar System Ambassador" (SSA) Program at JPL. The firing was direct reprisal for Johnston's published account in a New York Times Best Seller, "Dark Mission: the Secret History of NASA," of how NASA ordered him, 40 years ago, to destroy key Apollo lunar images and data -- rather than allow them to be preserved for academic study and public view. Johnston will testify at an Enterprise Mission sponsored National Press Club news conference this Tuesday, October 30th (Zenger Room, 9:00 AM) , how he disobeyed these NASA orders, secretly preserving the critical Apollo images. Johnston will then show some of the "missing" Apollo frames -- which confirm the existence of long-rumored "ancient artificial ruins and technology on the Moon," discovered by the Apollo astronauts but legally classified under the 1958 Space Act by NASA for over 40 years.

Johnston will be joined by Richard C. Hoagland, former NASA consultant and CBS News Science Science Advisor during the Apollo lunar missions. Hoagland is coauthor of "Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA," and head of The Enterprise Mission. Hoagland will present an imaging analysis of Johnston's 40-year-old rescued Apollo images, comparing them to modern versions apparently currently being "leaked" by other "whistleblowers" on official NASA websites. He will also demonstrate and analyze one of the secret technologies retrieved by the Apollo crews, relating to the artificial control of gravity.

http://politicalfleshfeast.com/frontPage.do

Something Spooky Happening with the Apollo Tapes
by pinche tejano
Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 08:31:02 AM PDT
So I have few pet causes, but one was finding, then cleaning then viewing the Apollo tapes. You might remember me howling into the wind about this, banging the media drums until it got noticed, and the tapes finally be located in rafter crawl space of some obscure Australian college. Well, now that they found them, they are gonna get classified.

Which is silly, because they are already being leaked. More amazingly, is high ranking NASA officials are being terminated because they are trying to keep the tapes in public domain:

http://npc.press.org ...

Dr. Ken Johnston, former Manager of the Data and Photo Control Division at NASA's Lunar Receiving Laboratory during the manned Apollo Lunar Exploration Effort in the 1970's, was abruptly terminated Tuesday morning, October 23rd, from NASA's prestigious "Solar System Ambassador" (SSA) Program at JPL. The firing was direct reprisal for Johnston's published account in a New York Times Best Seller, "Dark Mission: the Secret History of NASA," of how NASA ordered him, 40 years ago, to destroy key Apollo lunar images and data -- rather than allow them to be preserved for academic study and public view. Johnston will testify at an Enterprise Mission sponsored National Press Club news conference this Tuesday, October 30th (Zenger Room, 9:00 AM) , how he disobeyed these NASA orders, secretly preserving the critical Apollo images. Johnston will then show some of the "missing" Apollo frames -- which confirm the existence of long-rumored "ancient artificial ruins and technology on the Moon," discovered by the Apollo astronauts but legally classified under the 1958 Space Act by NASA for over 40 years.

Johnston will be joined by Richard C. Hoagland, former NASA consultant and CBS News Science Science Advisor during the Apollo lunar missions. Hoagland is coauthor of "Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA," and head of The Enterprise Mission. Hoagland will present an imaging analysis of Johnston's 40-year-old rescued Apollo images, comparing them to modern versions apparently currently being "leaked" by other "whistleblowers" on official NASA websites. He will also demonstrate and analyze one of the secret technologies retrieved by the Apollo crews, relating to the artificial control of gravity.


I saw a comment from OBerg that they requested where he got his Doctorate and he refused to show it and they terminated him

Interesting battle between Oberg Nasa and Johnston
its hit the Internet waves

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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
63. The moon has never had oxygen or gravity
Or only minuscule gravity at any rate. Not possible. It is not made of green cheese either.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. It's never had gravity?
What keeps all the rocks from floating away?
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #66
83. Intelligent Falling.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #63
71. "The moon never had gravity."


Velcro?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Dust Magnets
Now used in cleaning supplies.

:dunce:
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rjones2818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
74. 1/6 gravity of the Earth, hardly miniscule.
Not having oxygen is why they needed glassed in domes and huge buildings on the Moon.

Sheesh...like even a alien is going to be able to work long term in a near vaccum.

:evilgrin:
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
79. And here, all along, I thought the moon landings were faked....
Learn something new everyday :eyes:

Off topic, but whats with all the weird conspiracy posts on the DU lately?
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
81. What about telescopes? Don't private citizens have the ability to search for ruins?
I think it is quite implausible that so many ruins would be present without someone on Earth discovering them.
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arrested_president Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Moon Base


this supposedly is one video of 700 boxes of videos from NASA that simply went missing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6PD rd19974


a tv station in Spain played this in a documentary - ONCE

then, they got shut down BIGTIME and all the debunkers came out in force


LOTS of other structures were found (the NASA photos are all over the internet)
http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/cydo nia_and_moon_mountains/cornet-a.htm l

Apollo radio transmissions - you can even see how the astronauts reacted when they started seeing massive alien ships gathering around them and structures built 5 miles high
http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmic photos.html

this is could why they made the fake video (if it's fake) - the one that makes people think we didn't go to the moon. nope, they just couldn't show us what's REALLY going on on the moon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMv QTNLaUE&mode=related&search
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