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I'm going to come right out and say it: Professional sports isn't actual "work"

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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:35 PM
Original message
I'm going to come right out and say it: Professional sports isn't actual "work"
I'm so sick of that shit.

So and so "works hard" to hit the ball over the fence, he "works hard" to run the ball down the field, he "works hard" to keep the puck out of the net, he "works hard" to sink his putts.

BULLSHIT!

That isn't "work".

The world will not come to a grinding halt because some dick missed a field goal.

So get over it.

Discuss....
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. You'll be hard-pressed to find
anybody who cares about sports less than I do, but I think it does take a lot of hard work to be a professional athlete.

Just like being a successful opera star, stage actor or juggler takes a lot of hard work.

Not all work is vitally important to life.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. my friends will tell you that I undoubtedly care even less than you do. I understand what the OP is
saying, though. something that is purely a recreational activity is hard to think of as work.

and, the pay is absolutely scandalous. NOBODY on earth is worth the money the top athletes get. (I also think that just about all ceo's, etc, are vastly overpaid as well)
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Sure they're worth it
if only because somebody's willing to pay them for it. Or would you prefer the team owners keep all the money?

Is Streisand worth what she makes? Yes, because people are willing to pay that much. Professional athletes are much like entertainers in that regard.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. No, no, they aren't.
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 02:34 PM by skids
Saying anything the market is willing to pay for is "worth" something ignores the fact that the market is quite often completely ignorant and counterproductive, being that it is partially made up of asshats.

(EDIT: to be clear: "worth" implies intrinsic and provable positive value. Market "valuations" are not "worth".)
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
79. People are free to spend there money however they choose
...to suggest differently is tyranny.

I'm sure there are many here that would like to have the power to decide how everyone else's hard earned money should be spent, but those people are nothing less than wanna-be dictators. I am I happy about the fact that millions of people seem perfectly willing to spend their hard earned money watching professional wrestling? No. However, I can't think of a way of stopping it that doesn't involve tyranny or minority rule of some sort.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #39
94. Which is indicative, I think of how modern consumerism...
Which is indicative, I think of how modern consumerism has not merely changed our language, but in a sense, forced us to (rather successfully) comply with that adaptation.

All other things being equal, 'value' (up until recently) meant 'merit', and I doubt anyone could validly argue that any one person, let alone an NFL quarterback merits $231.1 million.

(But then again, I have friends family members who would argue that morality is nothing more than the psychology of the market... and realize that people will argue for the sake of argument)
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
100. agreed! No where near worth it!
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 12:53 PM by RiverStone
Jorre Torre gives the finger to George because he was "only offered" 5 million for next year.

Now I'm not a Yanks fan nor I have any sympathy for greedy-as-hell owners, but who here would cry in your beer over a messily 5 mil offer?

Such pompous bullshit insults everyone else (teachers, fire fighters, cops, etc.) that put so much on the line everyday and get paid a tiny fraction of Joe's lame contract per year. Folks that risk life and limb and sanity. Yes, and I know why Joe did it (that not the point). The fact anybody in pro-sports whine about their mega millions is disgusting. And Joe makes a little compared to A-Rod.

Fucked up priorities and the market pays and pays and pays...
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #100
127. I'd have given the finger too.
If they'd expected me to work another year with a pay cut.
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DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #39
156. Sorry, but you are flat-out wrong
You cannot say that anything has "intrinsic and provable positive value." That would mean that an object has an inherent value, without taking into account what someone else is willing to pay for it. An object only takes on value when you consider what the market will pay for it.

Let's look at an easy example -- a gold ring that sells at a store for $1000. What is the inherent value of a gold ring? Absolutely nothing. It's only worth something because someone is willing to pay for it. If there was a society that did not value gold at all, then the ring would be worthless. Or if the society didn't wear rings at all, it would be worthless. It only takes on worth when it is desired by someone else, and that someone else is willing to pay for it. The same is true for any object you can name.

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
179. I disagree
First off, I'm no big sports fan ..... but I'm not a hater, either.

I think your definition of 'work' refers to intrinsic value. I also see much in the way of intangible value in things like sports .... and dance ..... and opera ...... and fine arts. They enrich our lives and provide food for the mind and soul (entertainment - a human pursuit form time immemorial). Yes, some of it can seem mindless to some of us (I see poker tournaments and golf tournaments and the endless NHL payoffs that way), but I respect the right of others to have an interest in it. I won't complain about their football if they don't complain about my interest in baseball or modern dance or ballet or theater or antique fountain pens.

None of these things add value to my retirement fund. They add immeasurably to the richness of my life.
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cemaphonic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. I am fairly sympathetic with this argument, but it overlooks the huge public subsidy of pro sports.
If sports patrons were paying the full cost of those huge salaries, no big deal. But in many places, local taxes are indirectly padding those salaries, usually by subsidizing the cost of the stadiums.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
78. Race horses make good money too!
They're worth it because other people make more money of of them than they do themselves.

--IMM
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:00 PM
Original message
But pro sports is purely recreational for spectators, not the atheletes
They work HARD.

Not that I give a damn
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
119. Considering that people voluntarily pay to watch games...
...buy merchandies and watch them on TV, you can't argue they're "overpaid." They're only paid as much as we're willing to give them.
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. I don't care how much they're paid
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 02:19 PM by midlife_mo_Jo
except that I think they would all make less if the taxpayers weren't picking up the tab on stadiums.

And that would be just FINE by me.
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Chief Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
74. Agreed
As you indicated, not all "hard work" jobs are a productive part of society.

Sports stars, opera singers, stage actors, movie stars, and jugglers don't make a productive society. They are ENTERTAINMENT only, and are just "fluff" in the grand scheme of things.

And lawyers...well, they aren't productive, and they aren't fluff - they fit into another category.
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habitual Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. no way, they work....
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 01:43 PM by habitual
maybe your point is that they are WAY overpaid, which i would agree.

Would you be so angry if they were getting paid say less than what teachers get paid.??

I think the main thrust of anger towards this issue is the ridiculous amounts...

EDIT: just re-read your post, surprised you'd infer that just because someone is a kicker in a game, they are a 'dick'
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Sorry, men who dig ditches work. Doctors work. Teachers work.
Someone who sacks the quarterback is just a jock.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The Only Difference Between Ball Players and Ditch Diggers
Is that ball players have the media to show them - and the rest of the world - the results of their work.

A ball player works just as hard as a ditch digger or a teacher, but because huge sums of money are made (team owners, hotels, bars, tv/radio, product endorsements) based on the player's performance, they have medical care as good as any thoroughbred race horse.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. And then they parade around stating that they "worked hard" for their money...
and if you're lucky enough, you too can grow to be 6'5" and throw a ball around for a living.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. The bigger difference
is that people will pay to watch a ballplayer work but not a ditchdigger.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. Well Yah
But I was kinda getting at that in the part about huge sums of money :)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. by your rather limited parameters
visual artists don't work.
poets don't work.
actiors don't work.
opera singers don't work.
symphony orchestra members don't work.
circus performers don't work.

and that's just for starters. Just because you hold them in contempt, doesn't mean that what they do, isn't work.
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
72. Correct! And Violin Players Don't Work Either!
Men (and women, too!) who dig ditchers work. Doctors work (sometimes). Teachers definitely work.

But a violin player is just a nerd.

:sarcasm:
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #72
96. Oh, please!
:nopity: <-- not working

That's the first time I've ever gotten to use that smilie! :hi:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think it's hard work.
It just depends on if your pitting certain sports against the other. Let's say running a marathon. Now that's hard work!
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's like boxing. It's a modern-day answer to the Roman Empire and
the gladiators.

I don't care what they do, but I will certainly tell you I don't think its worth the millions that they pay some of 'em. A cancer researcher gets a pittance, a guy who stops another guy from crossing a line on a playing field gets millions.

Whatever.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Boxing
is a very demanding sport, when done properly. Lots and lots of work. Below, we see a young H2O Man boxing at MacArthur Stadium in Syracuse, NY.

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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:03 PM
Original message
You betcha it's demanding. And grueling. And punishing. And why do
people do it? The gladiator syndrome, that's why.

I used to go to the Golden Gloves EVERY YEAR! It finally became the only thing my ex- and I would do together. I still go to see amature fights. Why I don't know. But that's why I think about it the way I do. There must be something wrong with me to enjoy them. And then I think about the ancient Romans and I know there's something wrong with me.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. Interesting.
Do you mean everyone involved has "gladiator syndrome"? The fighters? The corner men? Promoters? The crowd?

I'm not disagreeing with you -- because long before I paid money to sit in classrooms to learn about group psychology, I participated in peculiar studies of crowd behavior while inside that squared circle, and still have some mighty strange memories of lessons learned.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. Yep, all of 'em. (Us when I include myself)
And again, I don't understand it but I know it when I feel it.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
66. There are some
interesting studies about some of the general personality traits of young men who box. It is, of course, a sport that attracts people who are lonely in a crowd, and when one adds the individual nature of the sport, it seems possible that the boxers are very different than those who watch the fight from outside the ring. But they are, in a strange way, part of the process.

Interesting point you make.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think it is probably hard work to stay in shape and go to practices and
meetings and refrain from saying BS on camera and try to ignore the other teams fans
when they're calling you names while you're on the field playing. The people who play
professional sports and the games help to provide a diversion in our lives from all the
other crap we have to deal with that is serious, so in that respect, they do make a
contribution to the fans who like to watch the games, imho, even if only for a few hours.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Then when they retire, they run for office on the GOP ticket.
Lynn Swann never worked a day in his life but man, could he catch a football!!!!!
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
77. Oh, right. Like Bill Bradley, and Heath Shuler, and...
oh, wait a minute, they're both Dems. :eyes:
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #77
93. Yeah.... Exceptions to the rule...
Oh but I guess it's better than nothing. :eyes:

If you think progressives/liberals predominate in the sports world, I have news for you.

Why do you think I started this insane thread?

I started it because it bothers me.

:-|
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. This whole running around with a ball
kicking it, hitting it, etc., must be some innate expression of humans. Though what that may be, largely eludes me. Perhaps a need fulfilled of a sense of belonging, and winning or losing through identification.

I couldn't care less what they do with the damn ball.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. I agree. People getting paid THAT MUCH just to stay in shape.
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 01:55 PM by HypnoToad
The rest of us, who work in cubes or for others to ensure work gets done smoothly...

Sports players are living the American Dream.

Those of us in real life are ultimately wage slaves. (And we pay their salaries. Talk about "inverse socialism".) And getting obese because we're not running around on a diamond shaped field all the time.

I wonder how many of them could understand words more complicated than "dog". Michael Vick doesn't seem to...

Plus, we don't think we're above the law. Many sports players always act above it. And get away with it, which is even more disgusting.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
42. another reason they get paid so much is the risks involved. If you
last ten years as a pro football player, you are doing good. They never know if they will leave the field upright on strapped to a back board.

The high wages go to a precious few. An offensive tackle will not get the paycheck a running back or quarterback will make. Of course that tackle helps make the ball handlers look good.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
71. Well, that's their job. They can afford the big medical bills.
So when Dick Buttkiss went to congress with his croc tears and wanting special privs for sports players, you bet I threw a wobbly over that jerk.

(yes, I know that's not the correct spelling of his name.)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. But if you become disabled after one or two seasons, you are still
in a mess. Too many got booted out of school after eligibility runs out.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Well, isn't sports supposed to be on the back burner compared to mental acuity?
Or that's how the talk usually goes...

There are plenty of people who don't go into sports, don't even get the "minuscule" salary a rookie sports player would get, and end up in a mess for other reasons as well. Last I checked, a rookie's salary is still rather better than those salaries paid to those disgustingly overpaid computer programming or support jobs for those worthless buck-tooth dateless geeks, let me tell ya...


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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. They are unionized and able to get a bit of the bonanza owners see.
Some are brilliant tacticians like Lance Armstrong and Tom Brady. Both of these men are of a special type of genius. Look at Michael Jordan. He had this incredible connection between body and mind. He could also read the game like few other players.

Many in pro sports may be undereducated, but they are not dumb. It takes a special kind of intelligence to succeed in the pros. For each pro athlete there are thousands that didn't measure up.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. You're forgetting that the whole phenomenon is nothing but a business.
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 01:58 PM by Selatius
It's a profitable business model because people want to watch sports. See college and professional football. There is millions upon millions of dollars of revenue generated for venues, with millions of people willing to pay money for the experience and the spectacle.

It doesn't matter if it's work or not. It's business, period. If people didn't like sports players being paid millions just to play a physically demanding game, they'd stop buying the tickets and watching the games. That's the crux of the problem: Free will. Nobody is forcing people to watch the games.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Then no wonder so many althetes are rightwing conservatives - it's business!!!!
That may well be because it still isn't "work".
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Fla_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. Interesting, what about other fields
Does an actor work, the world will not come to a grinding halt if some dick misses his cue.

Does a poet work, after all, things were just fine before he composed his lines.

An artist, a sculptor, do we really need another velvet Elvis, or a lump of clay no one can say what it is?

Eh, just for consideration.

Of course it's work. It may not be as physically demanding as being a well digger in the Ozarks. It may not be as mentally challenging as a quantum physicist. It may not be as beneficial to society as being a cancer researcher.

The fact that someone is willing to pay them for their effort is my benchmark. I may not understand it, I may not appreciate it, but I recognize that someone does. :shrug:
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I've yet to see any of those mentioned act as if they "work" harder than others.
If it weren't for the fact that so many football players, baseball or golfers weren't rightwing assholes, I would have never started this thread.
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Fla_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. The hardest working man
in show business... James Brown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Brown :headbang:

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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
87. And Brown was another right wing asshole...
indeed a musical genius, but still a republican idiot. And a real pig of a human being.
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Fla_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. Perhaps, but
he's not a professional sports participant. :evilgrin:
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. And where is your example of athletes saying they work harder than other professions?
I'm waiting...
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Fred Smerlas, Lynn Swann, John Elway, Jim Kelly...
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 02:26 PM by devilgrrl
happy now? :hi:

Then there's everyone's buddy Al Michaels!!!!
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Quotes where they say they work harder than other professions please
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. Sorry, don't have any.
:popcorn:
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
129. par for the course, one might say.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
62. That sentence is a wonderful example of....something.
Indecipherable nonsense comes to mind.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. some "poets" should probably work a little less
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 03:05 PM by hfojvt
"I admit to two orders of poets, but no third; and by these
two orders I mean the Creative (Shakespeare, Homer, Dante)
and Reflective or Perceptive (Wordsworth, Keats, Tennyson).
But both of these must be first-rate in their range, though
their range is different; and with poetry second-rate in
quality no one ought to be allowed to trouble mankind. There
is quite enough of the best - much more than we can ever read
or enjoy in the length of a life; and it is a literal wrong
or sin in any person to encumber us with inferior work. I have
no patience for apologies made by young psuedo-poets, "that
they believe there is 'some' good in what they have written:
that they hope to do better in time," etc. Some good! If
there is not all good, there is no good. If they ever hope to
do better, why do they trouble us now? Let them rather
courageously burn all they have done, and wait for the better
days. There are few men, ordinarily educated, who in moments
of strong feeling could not strike out a poetical thought,
and afterword polish it so as to be presentable. But men of
sense know better than so to waste their time; and those who
sincerely love poetry, know the touch of the master's hand
on the chords too well to fumble among them after him. Nay,
more than this, all inferior poetry is an injury to the good,
inasmuch as it takes away the freshness of rhymes, blunders
upon and gives a wretched commonality to good thoughts; and,
in general, adds to the weight of human weariness in a most
woeful and culpable manner. There are few thoughts likely to
come across ordinary men, which have not already been
expressed by greater men in the best possible way; and it is
a wiser, more generous, more noble thing to remember and
point out the perfect words than to invent poorer ones,
werewith to encumber temporarily the world." (Ruskin's note
on Modern Painters Vol. III Chapter 12)

edit: cursed html code <expletive deleted>

Some people are willing to pay for it? Why? Because, like my sister-in-law, the Bears fan, they were brought up wrong. It's kinda revolting, how much energy and effort we put into something that is basically so trivial when so many other, more important things, really need attention.

That said though, I really enjoy a brisk game of ping pong or some sand volleyball or a friendly softball game.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. Then actors and musicians don't work either. n/t
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. Athletes are more like entertainers.
Except that most entertainers hope to have a longer career. They do work, but they are grossly overpaid for the work they do, even considering that their working years for short.

But let me give you an example of an exception. A guy I went to high school with was #1 in my class of 1000. He went to Harvard on a baseball scholarship and a degree in engineering, and then he pitched for the Orioles. He put in a few good years and then he went back to school and got an MBA. He has a normal career and most people don't know he ever played professional sports because he is a humble guy, and he didn't use it as reason why he should never have to work again.

That's what they should all do. Finish school, and get another career when their athletic career is over, not expect to be paid for two careers when they are only working at one job. Geez, all these guys should at least be able to coach.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. Do Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert "work"?
Is going to meetings all day "work"?
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yes it is.
Just because you don't "get" sports, doesn't mean that professional athletes aren't getting paid to perform a function.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. What's your job?
I'll go first - I'm a textbook project editor. I make phone calls and edit text all day. Is that work, by your criteria? I have a lot of fun and learn a great deal.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. Dan Marino never worked a day in his life.
And I wonder if he'd be as conservative as he is had he never been in the NFL. He'd certainly have a harder time paying the medical costs for his autistic child.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. Oh. And another thing. God couldn't give a rat's ass who wins the game.
So eat that Kurt Warner.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. Entertaining people isn't work?
:crazy:
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's entertainment. It sells a lot of beer and chips.
Successful entertainers get paid a lot.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. there are legitimate criticisms of professional sports; this is not one of them
my older brother is very close friends with an NFL starting quarterback (a really good one too), and let me tell you - that guy works his ass off.

he spends anywhere from 12 to 16 a day, 7 days a week staying in shape, studying game film and playbooks, practicing, etc. etc. etc.

he's not some big dumb jock who just wakes up a couple hours before the game every sunday, throws some footballs and then collects his big check and goes home.

you don't like sports, okay. and a lot of athletes are indeed dicks. but not all of them. and a lot of them work, and work HARD.

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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. Michelangelo was a slacker
Never did a lick of work his whole life.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Neither did Joe Strummer or the rest of the Clash.
nt
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. By your reasoning, that's true
I don't particularly agree with you, but it's just semantics really. It's all in how you define "work". I don't happen to think it's worth getting worked up over.



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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #44
58. It's Sunday. There's football. There's threads about bible thumping baseball players...
A lot of jocks are wingnuts.... It just got to me.

Sorry. :blush:
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
63. um, joe strummer used to be a grave digger
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
43. You obviously have no clue as to fitness, nutrition and strength training.
That's year 'round for the athletes. That's every single day for the athletes.

There are very few Babe Ruth types these days.
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razorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. I also resent the use of the word "hero" for sports figures.
Like my daddy used to say, "Every one of those football players is big enough to pull a plow, and that's probably what they ought to be doing."
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. did your daddy wear a charming white costume to his club meetings?
Like my daddy used to say, "Every one of those football players is big enough to pull a plow, and that's probably what they ought to be doing."

The NFL is about 75% black, in case anyone wants to get a peek at what "razorman"s quote really looks like in full color.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #56
99. Wow. Assume Much?
Interesting that you took a quote about the size of atheletes juxtaposed with the importance of their job and turned it into a racial inference.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #99
150. what's to assume?
I just won't play dumb about this stuff, that's all.

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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #150
154. Have Your Say.
I just think you're reading too much into a fairly innocuous post, that's all. I mean, I can see where you're coming from, but without a history of racist posts to back it up, I don't think you should be making that jump.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #154
165. you're entitled to your opinion...
I don't think it's innocuous. I just think it looks that way, because it's not aimed at you.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #165
170. Perhaps. But WIthout a Racist Context, I'm Not Sure Why You Think It's Aimed At You.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #170
171. I never said it was aimed at me...
:wtf:
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. It is certainly work.
They put many hours into practice and training. It may be work that pays very, very well, but it is work nevertheless.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
49. The world also won't come to a halt
if my brother misses a day at his job in the front office at a construction site. Or if my husband misses a couple of days as an English teacher at school. Or if my dentist misses a root canal. Or if my father in law misses a day on the beat as a cop. Or if the Trump's housekeeper has cramps and misses a day at their job.

They're all work. Some people just enjoy their work more than others.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
50. Let me guess...
You were the last one picked for the sandlot pick-up games?
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Damn it! I knew someone would bring that up.
:blush:
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
52. It's definitely a type of work.
I don't watch sports at all, but I can definitely understand the dedication and work that goes into it.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
53. me, I don't really give a toss about sports either, but...
... I figure that the spectacle of hundreds of huge black guys getting rich in public probably pisses off the losers at Stormfront, so I think I'll change my vote to

YAY SPORTS!


:applause:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
55. I think it's work, much the same way ballet dancing and other entertainment is work. nt
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Drum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
59. I'm going to come right out and say it:
Somebody, somewhere, doesn't consider your job to be actual "work," either.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
60. The hell it's not.
You are way off base with this one. These guys bust thier asses to remain in game shape.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
61. If Someone Pays You, It's Work
A great line I heard long ago when people would attempt to justify how their job was "harder" than someone elses.

And if someone wants to pay that person $25 million a year for that work, that's their business.

And, yes, sports is a business...a leisure time entertainment...people make livings from it...thus, by all definitions...it is work.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
86. Unless you're blackmailing them!
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 09:33 PM by JVS
:-)Then it's pleasure
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
64. Wow, biased much?
It is just as legit as any other work in the entertainment field, actors, writers, directors, etc. In addition to having to do grueling physical work day in and day out virtually each and every day, athletes also have to deal with many painful injuries along the way, and the average career in the large professional sports is something like five years. Yeah, it's work, whether you like it or not.

Is it legitimate work :shrug: Is any sort of work in the entertainment field legit? Most people would say yes, it is.

Now whether athletes are overpaid, well, perhaps they are, but that's another question.
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lips Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. They are overpaid...
but then, there's work in that nonsense too? Its difficult to keep people complacent about the 9 1/2 dollar 10 oz. beers at the match. Shit, they'd rather beat the hell out of the opposing team's fans than get paid to flame the concession stands and start price wars.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
67. It's work.
It isn't the work that provides people with essentials for survival or for enlightenment, of course.

It isn't work that helps anyone. It's entertainment, and a fairly mindless form of entertainment, at that.

Entertainment IS important, though.

It increases the quality of life, which makes it a worthy profession.

That said, I don't think entertainers' work is more valuable than teachers, tradespeople, etc.; the people who keep the world going.

I'd like to make more money in my classroom than the average pro athlete. :D

I think what I do is more important.

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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
68. You sound sort of bitter
I suppose you could say that all entertainers are overpaid. Do you really think that Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert deserve millions of dollars? I think they're hilarious...but that's a lot of money.

But I watch, and will continue to watch both of their shows, regardless of what they're making...and regardless of what I'm making.

The world isn't fair. Certain professions have higher pay than others. The market sets the costs. Athletes work hard to stay in shape. If people pay to see a movie, a concert, or a game, then that is what determines whether that person is "worth what they're being paid".

I'd be more worried about CEO pay versus that of the average worker...and board members approving outrageous compensation packages. Now some of those CEOs truly don't deserve what they're making, considering their company could be tanking, but they're making off with a golden parachute.



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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
69. The money they get comes from people like me who pay to watch and be entertained
And your full of BS about it not being hard work. They spend many hours a day for most of the year to stay in shape and in good health to stay on top of their game. To say the least, its alot more work than what the average carpenter worker go through every day. One sport I am involved in is motorcross or just offroading on dirtbikes. Try riding on a MX track and jumping almost 80 feet through the air for 20 minutes strait as fast as you can. And dont tell me that pro MX riders dont work, they really do! I'm decent shape myself but theirs no way in hell I can keep up with a pro.
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
70. Neither Is Acting. or Singing. Or Painting
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 07:23 PM by stirlingsliver
Ho. hum.

If professional sports isn't work, then I'm sure you'll agree that professional singing, professional acting, and painting, as well as sculpting, or writing for money are not work either.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #70
84. Touch
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
73. He works hard at the keyboard, he works hard on the phone...
really are you talking about manual labor say in a coal mine, or sit on your ass and use three brain cells calling people all day? Or maybe standing and checking out people with a bar code scanner? Or how about...There are few professions out there that require more work than pro sports, what you think the sit around on the couch and head out at 5:30 and arrive at game time? Sure most can't repair an IV pump much less a MRI unit, however.com they're still working a shit load harder than I do.

They get paid to entertain, and if they don't practice (work) the don't get paid.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
76. If you provide a product people want to buy, it's work or close enough to it to count in my book.
I don't know why training to be a good player and performing is any less work than baking cupcakes, writing novels or teaching 1st grade.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
81. Professional athletes get paid to destroy their bodies as their achieve athletic feats.

Their really is very little healthy living in professional sports or high end amateur sports. TO achieve competence at high levels of sport for an extended period of time is to do damage to your body.

And the world to not come to halt for very many people.

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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Computer programmers and other nerds destroy their bodies at desks for 60 hours a week...
How come we don't get paid even remotely the same?

(Look it up; rookie baseball players get a minimum salary of $300k. )

If ball jocks can run around in circles and get sympathy, why not for cube jocks?
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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. Yeah! With sodas and snacks.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
82. My husband is a professional athlete. Dressage and combined training
horses. We breed, buy, train and sell horses and put our bodies, minds and souls on the line for our sport.

And WE work our asses off! For just-making-it small farm wages.

Professional athletes work 24/7 to master and sustain themselves to perform their sport PLUS there is all the periphery shit that goes on to ensure maximum performance. In our sport, that entails adequate preparation of a partner athlete (our horses) as well as the competitor.

It may not be "important" work as you categorize it - you are damn right that the world won't come to an end because he didn't execute a perfect piaffe - but to denigrate it as "not work" really pisses me off. You clearly don't understand "shit" about our life's work as professional athletes until you have REALLY dug into the shit we shovel every day.

I would really hope that you would at least acknowledge that our world is enriched by humanity's pursuit of all types of activities.


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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
88. But they give 110%!!!
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Beerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
90. Sportswriters work hard pretending athletes are relevant,
and the athlete's lawyers work hard keeping them out of prison.
I tend to agree w/ your sentiment; people getting paid to play children's games are being enabled to pretend to work.
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TimBean Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
91. Someone pays their salaries
unless the government cuts the check, people ussually work for a steady paycheck.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
95. Most of the time i agree with you, DG...
...but I gotta disagree here.

Back in the early 90s, I was friends with a number of players for the NY Jets - Boomer, Lageman, Sweeney, Washington. They'd come out and see my band play pretty often, because my drummer's brother was an equipment handler for NYJ.

Those guys worked as hard, if not harder, at their jobs than anyone I've ever met. The conditioning and training, long practices, and in Boomer's case the studying, were full-time jobs that not many humans could take on and not die.

I used to talk to Sweeney (a center), and he'd tell me about not being able to get out of bed the day on Monday as a result of the punishment his body took on Sunday.

These guys are all on borrowed time as far as their careers go - even if they don't suffer a career-ending injury, they're only able to play for a few years before their bodies won't take any more.

And to the extent that I ever talked politics with any of them - Lageman was pretty conservative, but by no means an asshole. Boomer and Sweeney were actually on the liberal side. And none of them would turn away a fan if they were in a bar we were playing and that fan came up to ask for an autograph or a handshake.

To me, proclaiming that all pro athletes are this or that is like saying all (insert ethnic or religious group here) are this or that - people are people, and there are wide differences in politics no matter what field they're working in.

Your chosen profession does not make you an asshole, per se. I know people in perfectly 'respectable' jobs who are much bigger assholes than the pro athletes I've known.

Figured I'd speak up. Continue to disagree if you want.

- as
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
97. Than what exactly is work?
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 12:39 PM by Freddie Stubbs
:shrug:
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
98. How Silly. Of Course It Is.
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 12:37 PM by Toasterlad
You may feel that professional sports are frivolous wastes of time, and are granted entirely too much attention by the media and/or the country, and you may feel that most professional athletes are over-privledged prima donnas, but the fact remains that they all work very, very hard at what they do.

Except baseball players. And golfers.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. Exactly! How is golf work? It's fun but how is it work?
And who wouldn't want to play it all day?
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Hondadriver Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Ok devilgrrl
what do YOU do for a living?
You seem to be on a soapbox about professional athletes and how they don't "work", well what about you??

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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. A graphic designer and typesetter - is that worthless enough for you?
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 01:43 PM by devilgrrl
Now, that this all about me?

:popcorn:
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Hondadriver Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. who said what you do is worthless??
but you ARE the one that claimed that pro athletes don't work.

Now, why is what YOU do work when most of it is at a computer and not physical at all?
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #106
110. Golf isn't work.
Period.
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Dave From Canada Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. Oh, so you get to sit on your ass all day, and you call that work?
Try working construction, or on an assembly line. or in a classroom full of kids, or in an emergency room. See, everything's relative. Stop being so envious/jealous of other people.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. And what do you do that is so much more worthwhile? Yep, it's all about me.
Tiger Woods never worked a day in his life.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #109
114. so exactly how do you define "work" ?
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. It's not golf - that's for sure!
eom
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #116
124. Nice try. I'll ask again. How do you define what constitutes "work"?
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #124
144. You first, since you want make it personal.
eom
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #144
158. Nothing personal about it. You said certain activities aren't work.
And I'm just trying to figure out what you consider work. For example, you said that golf isn't work. Personally, I think many professional golfers, who spend a lot of time training and practicing, "work" both when they prepare for tournaments and during those tournaments. I also think that they "work" when when they get endorsement deals and spend time filming advertisements.

Are athletes and entertainers and school teachers and firefighters all compensated in a manner that iis commensurate with their importance to humanity? Personally, I don't think so. But I'm not sure what relevance that has to whether or not an activity is work. It may be overpaid work, but its still work.

And there have been and are atheletes that financially support Democratic candidates: Andre Agassi (tennis); Hank Aaron (baseball); Alonzo Mourning (basketball); Emmitt Smith (football), to name a few. And there are plenty of hard working, blue collar types that support repubs. Who one supports politically doesn't define whether the activity in which they engage is "work."

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Hondadriver Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #109
115. no, it sounds like
nothing more than pure jealousy!!!

Personally I would love to see you play 36 holes in one day, walking of course. Its not as easy as you may imagine.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. I'd love to play 42 holes a day!!!!! It's not work either.
Nor am I jealous. I wish everyone can play golf 24/7/365
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
104. It's work
You may not like that it's work, but it is. And you may think they're overpaid too.

But then I don't like performance art, yet I'd say that's work too.

Someone's willing to pay them for the entertainment value the public gets from it.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
105. Celebrities are *at least* as worthless as athletes. How come no complaining about them? nt
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Dave From Canada Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
107. I disagree. Especially about NFL players. Go tell Buffalo Bills TE Kevin Everett, who is trying to
walk again, that football isn't hard work. Yes, the world won't grind to a halt because someone misses a field goal. But since when was that the definition of work? The world won't grind to a halt if someone doesn't make my Big Mac, but it doesn't mean working at McDonald's isn't hard work.

Professional sports is a job. And there's only a finite amount of people who can do that job at the highest level needed to play in those leagues. That's why their salaries are high. It's simple economics. Plus, many athletes put countless hours a week to maintain that high level of play. However, I'm not saying their job is important. But it is hard. I think you're confusing important work with hard work. There is definitely a difference.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
111. Well I really don't care much for any sport.
But I must disagree with you. If it isn't work, then I'd like to see you score a touchdown on a major league football team - and still be able to stand. You have to 'work' to make that touchdown. Maybe not the same as 9 to 5 'work'. And the pay shows!
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
112. Well then lets see you do it.
Fact is, those people spend their entire lives from their childhoods training for professional sports.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #112
120. And what happens when they don't make it in professional sports???
They find jobs.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. Yes.
If they can't get a job playing professional sports, they have to find some other lower paying job, such as graphic design, and play sports recreationally.

What do you think the word "professional" means?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
113. Dumbest thread of the month
Ay yay yay.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #113
121. I've seen way dumber than this... let me ask you, what's so sporty about poker?
That isn't work either.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #121
163. I'm not playing your ridiculous game
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #163
169. Then why respond?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #169
178. To register my distaste
:*
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #113
122. I second that. This is fucking stupid.
I'm merely an artist. I design the packaging for the stuff your precious retail shit comes in. And I draw stupid cartoons which appear in your company newsletters or in magazines. I do rush jobs where I don't sleep for days. I have to know all sorts of arcana about printing presses and inks and papers. Haw haw...laugh...paper? You can't begin to believe the variety of paper out there, and they have certain characteristics which professional designers know about and can recommend to their lazy-ass clients who sit at desks and hire people like me to design their literature. They're all lazy, of course. I work hard.

This is soooooo fucking stupid. My long-time skiing buddy and I have kinda fallen out because of this very issue. Ironically, we spent so much time in the car together on the way to the slopes, getting to know each other, that we...well...got to know each other.

He's a "working class" Republican, an oxymoron if ever there was one. He has to put in 60-70 hours a week to be able to afford a bag of weed and a few lift tickets in the winter. And he resents the hell out of me, because I make my own hours, and work in a profession where much of my recreational activity is paid for by my clients. For instance, I have to -- let's hear a collective "awwwww" -- attend the annual ski industry conference at Snowbird, Utah in January. All expenses paid. I've got a house in Tahoe for two weeks in February. One entire week is subsidized through various client meetings I've set up while I'm there. The other is 1/2 price because a family friend owns the house. But my sort-of-ex friends really resents it. He's told me so outright. I don't really "work" in his eyes. I draw pictures. I use connections. While he has to toil away in a factory all day wiring foil-stamping machines.

So come on...let's not be so quick to judge the "worth" of people's jobs. If there was no value to the job, there would be no market for it.

.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #122
138. That may well be but it still isn't a "stupid" topic of discussion...
in fact, I'm very glad I brought it up. No matter how silly I look. :silly:

Also, in this age of massive bonus payouts to corporate CEO's why not discuss "worth"?

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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
118. Itzhak Perlman works harder than Tom Brady.


He plays, he writes, he conducts, he plays Klezmer!!!!!!

Watch...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=102950077918604...
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #118
125. Classical musicians don't do real work.
It's called playing classic music, not working classical music.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #125
128. Classical music is really hard to play and faux-religious rightwing assholes seem to be a rarity
within their ranks.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #128
131. Professional football is really hard to play.
If you had journalists following classical musicians around every day with microphones, you'd probably find them making dumb right wing comments too.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #131
133. How about classical musicians waving their groove thang in the faces of female reporters...
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 03:59 PM by devilgrrl
that would be a change.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #133
136. Do classical musicians go to their locker rooms after concerts?
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #136
139. Backstage doesn't count?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #139
140. Do they walk around naked backstage?
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #140
145. You tell me.
eom
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #145
147. I'm guessing no.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #147
151. So you don't know for sure?
:popcorn:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. No, I don't.
I'm not a classical musician.

But I know that you bringing up Olson is just an attempt at grasping at straws after your other ill thought out arguments failed.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
126. Oh well, I did a piss ass job argueing my point...
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 03:50 PM by devilgrrl
which was really a reaction to the rampant conservatism that permeates pro-sports. And the seemingly insistence of it's participants that they somehow work harder and are much more worthy to humanity because they can catch a football. Do you know what I mean?

:shrug:

And no, this is not the dumbest thing that has been posted here.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #126
130. Do I know what you mean?
No, not really. I don't know what you're talking about with rampant conservatism. Athletes earn what they get because thousands of spectators show up to watch them work, an millions more watch on TV.

Anybody ever pay your employer to come in and watch you work?
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. Do you think Randy Moss is worth more to humanity than the fire fighters in California?
Hmm?

Is being a wide-receiver more perilous than jumping into a brush fire for $6 an hour?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #132
134. I think he's worth more cash.
I know I'm not going to slap down fifty bucks to watch a firefighter put down a fire.

The amount of money you make has nothing to do with how perilous the job is, otherwise cab drivers would make more money than lawyers.

Have you got any more silly arguments?
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #134
141. Yes. Teachers are worth more to society than the New England Patriots...
no matter how many records they break this season.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #141
142. They might be worth more to society.
But they're not worth as much cash.

Like I was saying, nobody pays tickets to watch teachers grade homework.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #142
146. Well, they should....
especially if their student is Randy Moss.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #146
148. Well then by all means...
go pay some teacher to sit and watch them grade papers.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #132
162. Firefighters earn a lot more than $6/hr, as well they should
You keep demonstrating how little you know about the things you post. Professional firefighters in California are generally unionized and are compensated at far higher level than minimum wage. No, its not anywhere near what a professional football player makes or a television star. But its a shitload more than a grunt serving over in iraq makes. And its probably less than that same grunt might make if after his/her tour, he/she signs up with Blackwater.

http://calfire.blogspot.com/2007/10/ucfd-firefighters-t...
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #162
180. I meant to say Smoke Jumpers....
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 06:00 PM by devilgrrl
http://www.smokejumpers.com /

and you're correct that they make much more and not as much as they deserve.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #126
137. Not near dumbest
I think I posted something in 2004, way way dumber! :hi:

You mean the iconoclastic worship sports players get from millions of fans. I hear ya. Frankly I'm not impressed by any of it.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #137
143. I just get annoyed when they act as if they work harder than the next person...
they don't.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #143
159. and yet you still can't come up with any examples of them doing that...
:wtf:
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #143
160. you keep saying that they "act" or "say" they work harder, but can't post a single link
to support your claim.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #160
168. Ever watch the pre-game show?
Do it sometime, you'll see what I'm talking about.

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #168
174. all the time, and no, I haven't seen that (by the way, is there a golf "pregame show"?)
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #174
177. Not that I know but while you're with me, watch this drive...
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #143
176. I bet it is the pay, they let it go to their heads
like CEOs that think they deserve 25 million dollars a year. I'm not saying they didn't work their asses off to make that much, just no one is worth that much. Sorry.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #137
157. "iconoclastic worship"
?


We worship them, and we want to KILL them?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #157
166. Yes, well no. We wait for the car wreck or which player gets hurt.
We like 'hard hits' but grimace when bones break. Hard to explain. Like slowing down to look at a car wreck. I didn't say it was a good thing.
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ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
135. As someone who has had a few professional fights, you are fulla shit.
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 04:01 PM by ThePowerofWill
You have no idea of the hard work and dedication it takes to be a pro. Being a pro means putting yourself through extreme conditions. Exercising till you puke on a regular basis, beating up your body where you hurt all the time. Not to mention the pressure to be the best you can be. I do manual labor on a shipping dock nowadays. I find shipping a much easier job than fighting was.

It also takes a certain amount of physical fitness, and talent that not just everyone has. An awkward, physically weak person will never be a pro not matter how much, or how hard they work.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #135
149. Yeah whatever you say jock - go take a shower - your aroma is offensive to hippie noses.
you smell like dirty sneakers and ass.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #149
152. It's not offensive to my hippy nose
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 04:19 PM by Bornaginhooligan
My hippy nose is offended by classists and elitists. The sort of nuts that think, for example, classical music is inherently superior to what those "other" people enjoy. It's also offended by shifting goal posts, and grasping at straws.
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ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #149
164. Well since you decided to go so low.
Blow it out your butt hippie. The smell of feat and unwashed hippie ass is offensive to my macho jock nose.

See how that works? I can act like a 2yr old as well. I bow at your awesome power to use feeble, immature insults when truth lies in the way. I am truly astonished, i swear!

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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #164
167. Just reacting your equally 2 yr. old stupidity...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Hippies had a few things right, not near everything though.

Free love? Nope, wrong, made way to many lil' hippie children that no one really wanted, and transfer of std's.

Overuse of psychedelics? Nope, wrong shit rots your brain after so long.

Lack of bathing? nope, who wants to smell like feet, and ass all the time?

Peace and love? Nope, pacifists always get their ass kicked in in the end.
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ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #167
172. And? That proves what?
I stand by my statement, even though broad and over generalized.. It holds very true with a lot of my exp with old school hippies. Yes real old school hippies, not the faux wanna be kind you see mostly today.

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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #172
173. "It holds very true with a lot of my exp with old school hippies."
Sure it does... :eyes:
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ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #173
175. That was so brilliant and well thought out!
I think i might fall out of my chair, and pass smooth the fuck out! Your subtle use of language, and wit has me mesmerized, lost in some primordial dream who's essence i can barely fathom.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #175
182. Is that how you normally react when someone holds a mirror to your bs?
eom
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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #135
181. I second that!
As I am into motorcross, which is a sport right up their in the list of most pysically demanding sports in the world. Riding a 220lbs dirtbike over bumps, through ruts, swinging it around in sharp turns, and jumping 80+ feet in air for 20 minutes is not easy what so ever! I'm in decent shape but theirs no way I can keep up with a pro MX'r.

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
155. There are people that work hard at being great athletes
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 04:24 PM by Bleachers7
You don't value that and it's OK. I don't think this argument is worthwhile for that reason.
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focusfan Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
161. Finally someone thinks like I do
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
183. Locking
at OPs' request.
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