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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:05 AM
Original message
Little-known fact about about the first time Bush is mentioned in the NYT in 1967
http://www.godeke.org/News/PhiAlumnus_GeorgeWBush9.2.ht...

Cartoon on Bush recalls Yale frat hazing

BY KIMBERLY CHOWS AND JACK MIRKINSONS
Contributing Reporters


Cartoonist Garry Trudeau '70 said he thinks a little-known fact about President George W. Bush '68's past -- that his first mention in The New York Times occurred in 1967 when, as former president of the Delta Kappa Epsilon chapter at Yale, Bush defended the fraternity's practice of branding its pledges with a red-hot coat hanger -- deserves more national attention.

On Sunday, Trudeau's cartoon "Doonesbury" featured fictional character Mark Slackmeyer explaining the President's position against current anti-torture legislation by revisiting a series of 1967 Yale Daily News articles that exposed DKE's rush activities, which at the time included brandings and alleged beatings. Soon after these stories were published, the University's Inter-Fraternity Council fined the fraternity for performing "physically and mentally degrading acts," and the Times published an article in which Bush defended the brandings, comparing them to cigarette burns.

"At the time, it caused quite a stir on campus, even generating some national attention," Trudeau said.

The News article, published Nov. 3, 1967, featured a photograph of a half-inch high "D" burned into a pledge's naked backside. Trudeau drew his first cartoon for the News for the story -- a picture of smiling pledges, naked and bent over at the waist, with a figure holding a DKE branding iron standing over them.

In a News story the next day, Bush is quoted calling the branding "insignificant." He said he did not understand how the News "can assume Yale has to be so haughty not to allow this type of pledging to go on."


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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's disgusting and repulsive.
Why didn't the media put this out in the news? Oh... Right...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. and Bush defended the practice----
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. Maybe it was his idea in the first place.
He's the guy doing the explaining in the '67 article -- wonder why?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #31
63. Here's the ORIGINAL COMIC:
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 05:21 PM by Hissyspit
from Nov. 27, 2005, to which the article is referring.

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #63
106. *Still at it...
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #106
112. aaaagh! Run for your life!
This reminds me of the Far Side cartoon with the cowboy smirking as he heats up an enormous branding iron ("THIS COW BELONGS TO DARYL JONES SO HANDS OFF!") -- and the cows are standing in the field, wide-eyed with terror.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. You refer to a cartoon
and *IS a cartoon. However, the photo is REAL! :scared: Didja notice Colin in the backround applauding? ;-)
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. there are times when I wished that certain photos were fake ...
I don't know which is scarier -- the expression on *'s face as he fondles that branding iron ... or Colin's reaction.
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PearliePoo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Yes it is
He seems to have a fixation on the "ASS".
As in:
shoving firecrackers up a frog's ASS.
branding fraternity pledges' ASS
referring to a reporter as a #1 ASShole
telling the Australian Deputy PM "we are kicking ASS in Iraq."
I'm sure there are more.....could it be a potty-training issue?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Oh, maybe not quite THAT psycho-sexual connection......
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. Don't forget Osama.
http://www.smirkblog.com/bush_on_bin_laden_i_will_screw...

Speaking of George Bush, with whom Sharon developed a very close relationship, Uri Dan recalls that Sharon's delicacy made him reluctant to repeat what the president had told him when they discussed Osama bin Laden. Finally he relented. And here is what the leader of the Western world, valiant warrior in the battle of cultures, promised to do to bin Laden if he caught him: "I will screw him in the ass!"


Maybe it's because Chimpy is a piece of shit?
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
69. Definite fixation
Suddenly I'm remembering some of the Christmas cards that GWB sent to Harriet Miers. Bush wrote about how he just loved "scatological humor." I was mildly surprised that he knew a big word like that, but it proves that he can learn a large vocabulary when a subject really interests him.
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. that would explain jeff gannon

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Nnph3zkHNw
Re-Elect Al Gore for a climate change in Washington
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Has this had it's own thread. If you don't post it, I will for you.
Amazingly uplifting! Even our little kick-ass! :kick:
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. Your link has me in tears.
thank you.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
74. anybody who did any research into the background of Gannon/Gukert during the Gannon scandal
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 07:04 PM by ooglymoogly
saw the porn pictures of Jeff Gannon and has to know he was into sadomasochistic sex with a few buckets of water sports thrown in. In other words total degradation. * has got to be one sick bastard and this is just further corroboration of what is now obvious.
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
84. I believe that George W. Bush is an ASS
"There's something wrong with that boy" :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :spank:
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
113. they also played a nasty little mind-game along with the branding
One account I read said that the pledge would be shown an enormous branding iron being heated red-hot in the fire. The kid would be forced to bend over, and at the same time as they branded him with the coat-hanger wire, someone else would dunk the big branding iron in a bucket of water, so he would hear the sizzle and assume that they'd used it on him. The people who did this would be hoping that the kid would be so freaked-out that he would faint or wet himself.

Particularly unpleasant, because they would then say that it was "just" a little mark, and that the person must be a wimp to carry on like that. Nothing "just" about it, though. Bush either made up that manipulation, or learned something from it, because all the way through, his administration has done the "bait and switch" -- tricking people into allowing things to happen, on the basis that they are not as bad as what they might have imagined. (Even some media people have been out there saying that beating and torturing Iraqi prisoners is "okay" because they weren't executed after all.)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
2.  The White House did not respond to requests for comment before press time.
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
51. Official White House comment:
It's an election year lie produced by the Dems.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. "I don't think [Bush] gives much thought to what it means to torture people or how it makes us look




......Trudeau said he drew parallels between Bush's connection to fraternity hazing and his national policy today because he feels that it reveals a lot about the President's philosophy.

"While you can't draw a direct line between a 19-year-old's fraternity activities and national policy this is part of a larger picture of this administration's belief that the ends justify the means," Trudeau said. "I don't think gives much thought to what it means to torture people or how it makes us look in the eyes of the world."
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
40. Just proves HE must experience torture to give "much thought" henceforth to it.
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
86. Bush, Yes he does
Bush has at least two personas. One is displayed in public (and failed), the other is private, true, inescapable if not unchangeable. Number one is the publicly displayed good-ole-boy forceful, unflappable Christian face he wears as "Patriarchal Leader." Just below the surface, as oft revealed just off camera, is the dirty mouthed, psychopathical, fixated on perfidy, sadomasochism and elitism.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. REC
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. And he's STILL a sadistic bastard.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. and you know what? i think his father is too .
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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. i think he gets it from his mommy.
dick nixon on barbara bush: "that woman knows how to hate."
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yale should've expelled his branded butt. An opportunity wasted to change history.
He'd be wrecking another small company right now, rather than entire countries.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. I am one who has not seen this before. I can see the analogy clearly.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. he has been quite consistent
through the years, wouldn't you say? quite consistent.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yale: haughty, not naughty.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. Although, not heinous, another snippet of the Shrub at Yale. Playing Dirty.
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nannah Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
65. as i recall, that picture is from a yale yearbook after W graduated
the decision to put that particular picture in the yearbook is curious. any info?
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. The man is clinically insane.
Everything he has ever done has involved, blood, death and torture. Even in the oil business, I bet he managed to maim and mutilate someone. He personally approved the torture of prisoners IMHO. He is one very, very sick individual. He is a Pinochet in the making.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Our first actual mentally ill president?
Or have there been other certifiable holders of that office?

bush appears to have a number of mental maladies, including psychosis and narcissistic personality disorder for starters.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. Open to question
Reagan was clearly suffering from the beginning of Alzeimers towards the end of his term; Nixon's paranoia verged on mental illness toward the end.

I actually think that Bush is suffering from stunted emotional development. The obsession with having his own way and loyalty suggests an emotional age of about ten. I think his lack of empathy is less to do with narcissism as class. There is a certain faction of the upper classes which effectively train their offspring to think of those of lower station as unworthy of consideration.

If one were to do a full workup on Bush, I suspect one would find:
- Class-based narcissism
- Massive entitlement complex
- Extreme lack of emotional development
- Father issues (not uncommon for the underachieving sons of successful men)
- Dry-drunk syndrome
- Possible religious mania

Now, what those would tend to point toward is a rather rootless, drifting individual. Where it becomes dangerous is where Cheney gets involved. Contrary to popular belief, most crimes committed by multiple protagonists are not folie au deux (a madness shared) but a case of one partner dominating the psychologically weaker (criminal psychology is a hobby of mine). Left to his own devices, Bush would probably have been a largely ineffectual, one-term president like his father but when Cheney gets involved, he can push the weaker Bush into virtually anything. Because of his father issues and stunted emotional development, Bush both craves acceptance by others and is pathological about loyalty. By manipulating the two traits, the psychologically stronger Cheney is able to get presidential backing for virtually anything.

Granted, I haven't spoken to either man personally but based on interviews, I'd have no heisitation in describing Cheney as a psychopath and I mean that in the full, clinical sense.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. Interesting
I would definitely agree that Bush is an emotionally undeveloped person and that Cheney dominates him. I have in the past flippantly diagnosed Bush as suffering from 'that good old-fashioned disorder: possession by the Devil - and the Devil is called Cheney'!

As well as Reagan's early dementia, Woodrow Wilson was probably not mentally fit for office at the end of his term, due to the effects of a stroke.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Couldn't say
The effects of a stroke on a person's mental faculties vary wildly, depending on such factors as general health, treatment, age, genetics. Random chance plays a role too. Some people are able to recover from a stroke and be as able as they ever were. Others (my grandmother for example) are debilitated by it.

As I said, criminal psychology is a hobby of mine and there are certain patterns one finds in the psychology of serious violent criminals (i.e. serial killers). The combination of Bush and Cheney fits so many of them that there are occasions I half-expect someone to find dismembered hitchhikers in Cheney's freezer. The repeated patterns that we would expect to find are all present in one or both of them although, interestingly, Bush fits the profile of the disorganised criminal while Cheney fits the profile of the organised. Of course, there's extremely common with partnership crimes.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I seem to recall a reference to Cheney's "man-sized" safe ...
now I have to wonder.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
61. What about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome?
He seems to have some of that as well. I imagine Babs drank like I fish trying to deal with Senior.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Possibly
It's certainly possible but barring any further evidence, there's no way to say.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
73. Narcissistic Personality DO, sure.
Psychopathy, sure.

I don't see the psychosis, though.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. I was speaking somewhat tongue in cheek,
but isn't psychosis a "loss of contact with reality"?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. People are always playing shrink around here.
Yes, psychosis is a "loss of contact with reality." However, if you ever spend any time in the company of true psychotics, e.g. schizophrenics, you won't readily confuse their mental disorders with the sort of conscienceless, self-aggrandizing egocentrism of the White House crowd.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
98. No . . . sadly enough . . . Nixon was certainly insane while in White House ---
And LBJ was "clinically psychotic" according to Pierre Salinger who say that he and Bill Moyers observed that behavior and agreed on what they were seeing . . . that LBJ was "clinically psychotic."

Don't think Reagan was faring very well either -- but that may have been Alzheimer's rather than a guilty conscience for October Surprise and god-knows what else they did in order to keep Carter from being re-elected. Did they stop the hostage rescues by downing helicopters -- ????





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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Pinochet/Pinocchio/Pinhead - all apply.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. So we can assume the preznit has a "D" burned into his ass?
For "dunce?"
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. I would bet not; he weasels out of everything, does he not?
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
66. He probably started the branding
So of course, he wouldn't have been subject to it himself.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. Ask Condi if she has seen it.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
56. Or Jeff Gannon. n/t
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
16. I've never heard of this before
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 08:45 AM by Lone_Star_Dem
Why is it they've been able to bury, hide and gloss over so much in regards to Bush's past?

Yet if a Democratic candidate for president failed to help a little old lady across the street when s/he was 11 years old, it makes front page headlines?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
48. Actually worse, had the Democrat gallantly escorted the
little old lady across the street - there would be Republicans claiming that she had not wanted to cross the street or that he intentionally tried to get her lost.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
59. So please explain then,
Why the HELL didn't he help her??

<sarcasm>
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. Is it known whether he was subjected to this same treatment?
I think there's no doubt that those subjected to cruelty often perpetuate it.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. My hunch is that Bush's butt is D-less, for the same reason that he can send men and women
to their death in Iraq without flinching, but he himself managed to get out of military service.

There should be a documentary made about the sick gratification he gets from seeing others tortured.
They could call it, "From Frogs to Fraternity."
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
85. I'm wondering whether he received the same branding or if he started it.
What are the odds that he would had enjoyed showing off the brand if he had one?

What are the odds that he was too chickenshit to go thru the same torture he gave to the pledges?
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. Wow, that is amazingly bad. I wouldn't let a daughter of mine go out with a guy like that.
How can Bush justify branding human beings? That is just sick.

I have heard of former black Ohio State football players doing something similar to this, branding their upper arms with wire clothes hangers that were heated up. But, I was told that was only to impress Coach Woody Hayes so he would let them play on his team because he was such an avowed racist.

I don't understand how people in this country can ignore what a sick individual Bush truly is if he was already making excuses for branding pledges in college 40 years ago. How old was Bush, 20 years old? And yet, he doesn't see anything wrong with branding? That is really some kind of legacy. I'm sure his parents are proud of him.

And the beat goes on.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. And thinking it MADE SENSE to suggest that the brands were like "cigarette burns"---AS IF THE LATTER
were MILD!!

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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
111. one wonders what the context was, for him seeing a cigarette burn on a human being
Best case scenario (and it's still not a pleasant thought) was that he dozed off one day and the cig fell onto his chest and burned through his DKE shirt.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
55. Laura Bush ran down her boyfriend with her car killing him so it was a perfect match
I'm not making this up. Laura Bush killed her cheating boyfriend with her car and no charges were brought. It's public record. I believe that is what attracted them to each other. Just imagine:
"Laura, I've only branded people, smelled their flesh burn, and blew up some frogs with firecrackers...but you, you ran down your boyfriend and killed him 'cause he was cheatin' on ya'. What's that feel like?"

"I don't want to talk about it...My parents told me not to talk about it".

"Laura, I love you".

Just pathetic. Cocaine wanna be cowboy spoiled rich brat has always been sadistic and without a conscience and he married a maiden of suppressed homicidal rage without a conscience who refuses to face what she's done...a perfect match.
Often the rich raise monsters for children and are wealthy enough to keep it hidden.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Did you ever read the Repuglican written Biography of Laura
They go on and on and on about how this "incident" with the car crash allowed her to
build her character in the face of adversity.

See, it was a small town and some people gossipped about her having been the one behind the
wheel when the guy was killed.

She suffered and SHAME on us for pointing out what she did that caused her suffering.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
19. The more you find out
about bush the more you have to think he really does have a mental quirk. I have posted this before and I think that's the reason he had the last two medical procedures at 1) Camp David..the colonosopcy. Which is dangerous because it is not as simple as it sounds. The intestine can be punctured and he would need immediate medical attention. AND he was at Camp David?

2) this would have been easier but he had his physical at the white house. And he had always had it at Walter Reed before.

It seems to me interested parties are keeping bush and his medical conditions close to the vest.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. Sicko
Psycho




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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
23. A saddistic little Connecticut preppy AWOL cheerleader brat pretend Texan
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 10:21 AM by SpiralHawk
And now the corrupt republicon cronies have saddled America with him for seven profoudly sad years of failure. avarice, hubris, and wholesale trashing of America's laws and Constitution. Sigh...
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
27. Can you send this info to Keith? It's incredibly hair-raising and telling!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
29. No wonder Limbaugh compared torture/Abu Ghraib to "fraternity hijinks".
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. wow....he has not changed a bit....just a bigger fraternity to brand.
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 11:09 AM by Gin
I wonder if he started this practice, or if he has a "D" on his ass also. Since I know about the curve of Big Dog's penis...I want to know if he has a brand on his ass! It's only fair!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. But not nearly as interesting. ;)
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
34. What makes Americans like this?
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 11:31 AM by Gregorian
That's what I want to know. I don't want a beer with people like this. I am repulsed by people like this. I see them around me all the time. They're the reckless ones.

And this is the tip of the iceberg. Blowing up frogs, shooting people with his bb gun, pulling legs off of spiders, trashing his college apartment and never paying for the damage. This is how these sadistic creeps play.

I think Americans are trained to enjoy this stuff, but some of us actually have consciences. I knew who Bush was long before he stole office. I knew there would be war, and debt. So why didn't these other goons? Because they're just like Bush? My uncle is a republican, and my dad said he was freaked out that he tore legs off of spiders. That is an indication of a messed up individual.

The worst thing we ever did was give an idiot power.

Here's how he played in college. I count three fouls in this one shot.

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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
72. I read the "Yale Daily News" pretty much daily and don't see any of this now.
For one thing, I think the integration of women has had a salutary effect on Yale. I'll betcha this phenom has been studied in institutions that have changed from male-only to coed. It's kind of a horrible thing to say, but young males left to their own devices might not be a desirable thing. I am thinking of "Lord of the Flies" here...
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #72
96. Think any "English style" school for the privileged.
Think where the gay connotations of the word "fag" come from.

Homo-erotic practices have a long and ofttimes unsavoury history in all male institutions.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
36. Bush is quite the sicko
mentally
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
42. didn't he also keep his siblings in line with a BB gun?


washingtonpost.com
Not Your Dad's BB Gun
More Powerful Models Used in Shootings Giving Toy a Bad Name
By Don Oldenburg
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 26, 2004; Page C01


When George W. Bush was 16 or so, the frogs in the pond outside his boyhood home in Midland, Tex., weren't the only targets the future president shot at with his trusty BB gun.

"He said, 'I'm going to count to 10, and you run all the way down the hall,' " the president's little brother, Neil Bush, recalled at a Utah Republican Party dinner in Provo two years ago, according to the Deseret News.

Big brother drawing a bead on the backsides of siblings Neil and Jeb must have left a mark because Neil also told the story to a class of Richmond second-graders. "I was running as fast as I can with my little lightweight summer pj's on, and then '7, 8, 9, 10!' Boom! I felt it on my right cheek," the Richmond.com news reported his recounting.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A13603-2004Nov...


lots of psychological analysis about Bush's sadism here: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/072707a.html
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. That whole damn family needs to be isolated from humanity.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
44. Branding and hazing are quite common in frats.
This sort of thing goes on all the time and has for as long as frat houses have been in existence. The outrage over this is ridiculous. The Chimp is an asshole for many reasons, this really isn't one of them.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Fro some reason, Google brings up articles on branding only in Black fraternities.
Edited on Sun Oct-28-07 03:40 PM by WinkyDink
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
71. But it does seem ironic that this love of torture persists into his administration of Vulcans
You must admit.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
75. You mean in MALE frats . . . right?
Now, it's rather obvious that there have been efforts over the past decades to create the violent female --- but I think when all this started there were only male frats . . .
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Let me add, the male obsession with domination seems to include other males ----????
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. Otherwise they'd be sororities.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #78
88. But they weren't -- cause women were barred from education ---
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #88
110. and as recently as the 1980s, Bush expressed regret that they were allowed at Yale

The year after he left, the university went co-ed. And he told a female alum that he felt it had been a bad thing for the school.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #78
89. But they weren't -- cause women were barred from education ---
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #44
82. We had a few people who branded themselves in our house, but it was by choice
I don't see brands as any worse then tattoos and perhaps 3/4 of my brothers have the letters somewhere.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #82
90. "Choice".... ? You mean peer pressure in a fraternity had nothing to do with it -- ????
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #90
99. More like absurd levels of enthusiasm, like people who get sports team tattoos.
Shoot the majority of guys who got inked either did it right before they graduated or shortly there after.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
45. "No more WIRE HANGERS!"
K&R.
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mahatmakanejeeves Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
46. This is from December 1, 2005,
just in case anyone wonders why he isn't seeing that in today's Doonesbury.

Cartoon on Bush recalls Yale frat hazing

That doesn't make it any less true.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #46
91. You know, I always like to hurt my friends -- a little pain among loved ones --- ??? !!!!

QUOTE
Albert Evans '68, a college acquaintance of Bush's and the president of the Inter-Fraternity Council in 1967, said the majority of DKE's rush activities at the time were performed in the spirit of good fun and camaraderie.

"What DKE was doing was clearly outside the rules, and they were sanctioned for that," Evans said. "At the same time, it wasn't of the order that somebody was killed." QUOTE


AND . . . WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL . . . IT'S NOT LIKE ANYONE WAS KILLED . . . !!!!



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krj44 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
53. if we go backwards on bush's
statements than one of the most signifcant has to be the statement that a dictatorship is ok as long as i`m the dictator.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
54. Bush could have suggested shoving a firecracker up pledges bungs
he had plenty of experience doing that with frogs.

This is a case of unified character expression. He was a sadist as a kid, he was a sadist as a college student, he was a sadist executing prisoners in Texas, he is a sadist torturing people in his not so secret prisons.

The nation got a well known personality in 2000. And they fell in line like really good murikans do. Who has room to complain? Surely not US citizens.
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dickbearton Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
58. K&R. The Criminal Bush is not only a clown, he is mentally ill.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #58
92. And, I'd suggest anyone who would submit to activities like this is brain dead ---
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
62. This seems very sexual.
Especially with the pledges naked and bent over at the waist.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. All of these "practices" have sexual undertones -- there's also the Elephant Walk? Is that it?
And, of course, "padding" . . .

Is this really hidden from male consciousness -- ????

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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #77
100. Do you know of anyone that this happened to? For real I am interested
I spent my good old days at Lehigh and Yale and they both have plenty of Greeks and I can say with almost 99% certainty that nothing like that went on at either of the schools when I was there.

The fact is none of these groups keep any secrets, everyone talks to everyone, shoot I've been shown at least 15 different "secret" handshakes including skull and bones'.

The worst thing that ever went down at either of my school was when the ladies of Alpha Phi decided to tell a few of their pledges that they were too fat and would need to drop the weight if they wanted to become sisters (the perpetrators were kicked out within a week.)

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #100
108. Only what has appeared in press . . newspapers, magazines . .. TV ---
There was recently just another death from over-drinking at one of the NJ colleges --
I think that was it. Ryder?

Well -- Yale . . . wasn't that where they were taken naked pictures of every student entering the college -- ?????

I think you can speak for the frats you were in -- but not for all of these groups --

There have been many instances where hazings have led to deaths --

Additionally -- you're seeing that most of the frat houses have been slowly shutting down because of pressure from the administration -- backed by parental pressures. That's been happening over the past decades. And that's why.

The drinking isn't really about drinking -- it's about challenge -- and risk taking -- and absolute stupidity. Like the rest of the hazing stuff.

I didn't at all want my son to sign up for a frat -- though my husband didn't get it.
Sure enough, he came home with a "paddle" --
I think probably some pretty stupid things went on --
including over-drinking --

My daughter, of curse, shunned frats --

And, overall, there have been many reports on all of this --
it's stupid violence -- and I think really propelled, IMO, not by students dreaming this up themselves but by some really lousely older influences still hanging around these campuses.

Violence breeds violence . . . brutality breeds brutality.

"Ladies" . . . "
Are you talking about a male frat or female --???

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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. You have seen reports of elephant walkling in the news? I highly doubt that
Plenty of kids kill themselves binge drinking and drink driving but that isn't the matter at hand either in the OP or any of my posts.

As for what I can and can't know about what went was going on at my schools, I think I'm a little more qualified then you to tell you what I know. There is a myth of secrecy, but in reality everyone talks about pledge to everyone else, there are no secrets on a college campus. In fact that is why Alpha Phi was caught in the first place, word got around and people were outraged.

I know plenty of people with paddles on their walls but none of them were ever paddled.

And yes Alpha Phi is a sorority.

I'm not going to pretend that I know what happens everywhere and obviously there are houses that a bad news, but times have changed and from my own experience it is very likely that the bad news houses are few and far between these days.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. It fits his behavior pattern(nt)
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Andy Canuck Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
68. As sad as it is true
branding is a normal ritual practice of fraternities.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #68
93. "Normal" . . . ??? ???? Branding is normal . . . ???? !!! Is that what you're saying????
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
70. OK, so we know that a conservative cabal
wanted to usurp power in the US. Fair enough. They have been trying a long time. There have been a few near misses. But when they finally make their move they pick George W Bush.

What were they thinking? At least pick somebody who can actually pull it off! Pick somebody where the rest of the world says, "hey! I'm glad of who's running things in the US!"
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
80. And let's not forget how little w
liked to insert firecrackers up the butts of frogs and watch them explode.

Yes folks, we have a sadist as prez. He loves inflicting pain and suffering on others....he gets off on it.
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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
81. Bush has done plenty of shit in the present-- it's unnecessary to
bring up shit from his past. If someone was quoting half the things I said as a fraternity president in college I would be FOOKED!!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #81
94. How is your "shit" connected to Bush's, except in your own mind -- ????
Move along -- nothing to see --- ????

Forgive Bush because you need forgiveness -- ????

Don't acknowledge Bush's brutality and callousness because it might expose yours -- ????


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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
87. it is little known, but it came out before one of the elections
i remember it.

not enough people who heard about it cared.

i cared.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
95. Coincidentally, just rereading "Bush On The Couch" by Dr. Justin Frank, psychiatrist .....
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/072707a.html

psychiatrist Justin Frank, author of Bush on the Couch


I have to say that in reading this about Bush it rather confirms for me my own feelings that he is what he was made into.

Maybe Dr. Frank would say that people are born without consciences, but my feeling is something happens to them.

Of course, not everyone who is abused becomes an abuser --
but I think Shrub is telling us how he was treated as a child --
I think what he was doing to frog's may have been a reaction to some brutality in his young life???

Also -- I don't think it's coincidental that the most sadistic of men -- and women -- have come together in this adminsitration ---

Dr. Frank doesn't mention Cheney, but I think it's an important ingredient --

Rumsfeld, liar, war monger, torturer
Cheney, liar, war monger, murderer
Bush, liar, war monger, torturer, murderer
Rice, liar, war monger, liar, murderer

As Dr. Frank points out, this all involves a lot of lying to oneself ---
They are living a different reality from most of us.



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. And Dr. Frank also thinks that Cheney/Bush IMPEACHMENT is required --- FAST --
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 12:54 AM by defendandprotect
QUOTE:
If Congress cut off funding for war in Iraq, Bush might well cast about for a casus belli to justify an attack on Iran.
Would the senior military again go along with orders for an unprovoked, unconstitutional war on a country posing no threat to the U.S.? Hard to say.
In this context, an ongoing impeachment process could provide welcome evidence that influential members of Congress, like many senior military officers, see through Bushs need to strike out elsewhere. Military commanders might think twice before saluting smartly and executing an illegal order.
In such circumstances, Dick it-wont stop-us Cheney, could be expected to try to pull out all the stops. But if he, too, were in danger of being impeached, uniformed military officers could conceivably block administration plans.
There is only a remote chance that Defense Secretary Gates would be a tempering voice in all this. Far more likely, he would smell in any restrictive legislation traces of the Boland amendment, which he assisted in circumventing during the Iran-Contra misadventure. UNQUOTE

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/072707a.html

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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
101. FOLLOWED OF COURSE BY THE CORNHOLING AND RITUAL COCKSUCKING
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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
102. So he's always been a torturer.
I am not surprised.
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DUlover2909 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
103. Why am I not surprised?
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
104. Why does this not suprise me?
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cartach Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
105. Shows what a Yale education
will do for you.You can quickly progress from torturing amphibians to branding human beings. Has to be a psychopath.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
107. Seems that Pete Stark's comments
about our troops getting "their heads blown off for the presidents amusement weren't all that over the line after all.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
114. Rush would say they are frat pranks.
Unless Dems did them, then they are grievous acts by hooligans. It says to me that Bush likes torture. What a surprise.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
115. I wish this story had come out during the '04 campaign.
Now doesn't do much good.

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