DONALD RUMSFELD CHARGED WITH TORTURE DURING TRIP TO FRANCE

[kpete]

DONALD RUMSFELD CHARGED WITH TORTURE DURING TRIP TO FRANCE

Complaint Filed Against Former Defense Secretary for Torture, Abuse at Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib



CONTACT: Jen Nessel, 917.442.0112, [email protected]


October 26, 2007, Paris, France – Today, the International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) along with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), and the French League for Human Rights filed a complaint with the Paris Prosecutor before the “Court of First Instance” (Tribunal de Grande Instance) charging former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld with ordering and authorizing torture. Rumsfeld was in Paris for a talk sponsored by Foreign Policy magazine, and left through a door connecting to the U.S. embassy to avoid journalists and human rights attorneys outside.

“The filing of this French case against Rumsfeld demonstrates that we will not rest until those U.S. officials involved in the torture program are brought to justice. Rumsfeld must understand that he has no place to hide. A torturer is an enemy of all humankind,” said CCR President Michael Ratner.

France is under the obligation to investigate and prosecute Rumsfeld’s accountability for crimes of torture in Guantanamo and Iraq. France has no choice but to open an investigation if an alleged torturer is on its territory. I hope that the fight against impunity will not be sacrificed in the name of politics. We call on France to refuse to be a safe haven for criminals.” said FIDH President Souhayr Belhassen.

We want to combat impunity and therefore demand a judicial investigation and a criminal prosecution wherever there is jurisdiction over the torture incidents,” said ECCHR General Secretary Wolfgang Kaleck.

more at:
http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/donald-rumsfeld-charged-torture-during-trip-france

[spanone]

1. may they haunt him everywhere he goes

i'm gonna have FRENCH FRIES for lunch

[roguevalley]

he's this war's kissinger. too bad they both can't get renditioned to

France. They are both facing warrants there.

[NoGodsNoMasters]

118. Damn straight!

Thank god SOMEBODY has respect for international law. They deserve the same treatment as Hideki Tojo.

[King Coal]

56. They will need some old rum runners to get him out. ESCAPE!!!

They are using the word "escape"!

JEANNE SULZER: Well, actually, the information we have is that the complaint has not been served on him. He has not been yet asked to account for the accusations in the complaint. So, as of now, again, we are waiting to see whether the prosecutor is still reviewing the complaint, and hopefully he will not wait too long, because our fears are that Rumsfeld will escape as soon as he can. So now the big issue is the pressure on the prosecutor and, of course, the higher-ups of the French authorities to take a decision on the complaint. But France has a very clear obligation to investigate and prosecute into this case under the torture convention, as Rumsfeld is present on the French territory.

[mmonk]

150. someone say rum?

[FREEWILL56]

62. And a toast with French champagne.

:toast: :bounce: :kick:

[Buns_of_Fire]

143. Which, of course, would make it French Toast... (n/t)

[awoke_in_2003]

75. Don't forget to wash them down with Perrier. nt

[FREEWILL56]

119. Howdy Awoke in 2003.

I see you are awake in the same place. Here's hoping they go all of the way.
:thumbsup: :hi:

[awoke_in_2003]

145. Hey yourself

are you alluding to the 2003 in my name? If so, yes, it was the run up to the Iraq war that woke me up and somehow I found my way here. Been here since, just don't post much.

[FREEWILL56]

147. No, something more obvious.

The logo. Here we go Ste.....

[awoke_in_2003]

149. Ah, right

the arrival of Big Ben. I grew up watching Bradshaw, then the dark years: Cliff Stoudt, Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczac, Kordel Stewart. It is nice to be able to talk about a Steeler QB without groaning.

[FREEWILL56]

151. I don't want to deviate from the impact of this thread,

but merely wanted to give a special HI for somebody in the burgh.

[bdamomma]

2. OMG, I hope these charges stick to this man.

this is like them going after old nazi officers who committed atrocities during WW2, go after all of them when they come into your countries.

[formercia]

6. The NAZIs didn't learn their lesson

Ground Hog Day, life imitates art.

[bagrman]

12. I just hope they can detain him, to get the trial going. Then they can get the rest of them.

[bdamomma]

21. well I guess there are still many countries who punish torturers

unlike ours where there are no laws!

[ChiciB1]

102. They Won't... I For One Have Given Up Any HOPE Of Any Of These

people having to pay for what they've done! It's off to the "spin" room, or "outrage" room or whatever other excuse they want to use!

Our government is no longer a Democracy and I sometimes feel very stupid thinking that I can make a difference. Unfortunately, we have been or are being controlled by most people in government. Including Democrats. There are some good ones left, but when they speak out, they must get hauled into some "special" room and given some sort of "treatment" and then let go to take back anything they did to upset the status quo!

[KansDem]

3. Vive la France!!!

It appears the "freedom fries" bullshit is coming back to bite the neo-cons on their butts...

[Joanne98]

4. I thought he hated France?

[bdamomma]

23. they are getting him back for saying "old Europe"!!

[AntiFascist]

84. LOL, the irony!

Watch for neocons to call for the bombing of old Europe.

[Diclotican]

92. alyce douglas

alyce douglas

If mr Rumsfeld are indeed not just indiced, but also send to trial he should be happy about ONE thing. In the Old Europe, where sivilzation still are the norm, we don't execute criminals, and our prison are not thar overcrovded and infecsted with gangs as in the New World.. In Old Europe we still respect the LAW as their are made in our parlaments, and if a man is jugded to be inocent, he is free to go... Not as in another country, where he/she can be hold in secret prison, for a long time, without the system we in Old Europe once belived that US also respected... The rule of LAW...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[ishtar66]

69. Ah mon cher ami....

You forget that Sarkozy (a right wing ding of the French kind) is now head of France.

[Diclotican]

93. ishtar66

ishtar66

He is maybee a right winger Sarkozy. But he is FRENCH RIGHT WINGER. Not like the Neo-cons in US... The french righ winger are more conserned by how France are showing her flag in internationale politic, then the Neo-cons who usaly dosent dear to stick their neck out, and been known to all to see.. They are like creatures who love to sceme, but dont want to be out in the sunlight, it can be irritating, an probley also little "dangrous". And are it one thing Neo-Cons dont want, is it to be in danger..

Better to send others into danger,then to be in danger yourself.. That is the motto of Neo-Cons..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad language, not my native language

[Radio_Lady]

113. Welcome, Diclotican -- from Norway! Thanks for your post.

We were in France when he won the election.

I remember thinking the same thing as I struggled to understand the French language while they were broadcasting the news.

I like this very much:

"Better to send others into danger, than to be in danger yourself. That is the motto of Neo-Cons."

I would like to visit your country in the next few years.

In peace,

Radio Lady in Portland, Oregon, USA

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Radio_Lady

[Diclotican]

128. Radio_Lady

Radio_Lady

The french language is a language I never manage to learn, but it is a wonderful language to hear, even that you maybee just get 1/10 of what they really is saying.. God that we do have the sub-titles then, so we may get a glimse of what the man was saying;)

What I was saying is not the trut?.. The Neo-cons is verry keen to go to war, but not to be in harms way themself.. Have never seen a neo-cons who REALLY want to go war, either one of their sons or dauthers... Its like it not "their duty to go to war"...

You are welcome to come to Norway, a smal country compared to USA. But with a lot of natur to see, if you want to travel little.. You must travel to the vest coast and travel either by car or by boat in the fjords.. I hope you wil enyou your stay in Norway, when you come;).

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[Radio_Lady]

152. You are doing very well in English. I would not do so well with Norwegian.

Thank you for sending this information.

Peacefully,

Radio Lady in Oregon

[Radio_Lady]

115. And welcome back, Ishtar66. Just a few posts since 2005.

I have no idea where you are in Canada but intend to look it up.

You have many interesting hobbies!

Best regards from Radio Lady in Portland, OREGON, USA

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Radio_Lady

[havocmom]

5. Splendid!

Make it impossible for the treasonous bastards to leave their yards.

Do your shady business deals from home, Donald! You can't go out among civilized people!

[BridgeTheGap]

7. About time for the right wing attack dogs to salivate again

More French bashing is in store.

[yoyossarian]

8. Why, Rumsfeld wouldn't even hurt a fly!

http://steponnopets.com/peo">President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

[havocmom]

9. Any chance they can actually take the bastard into custody?

If so, my bottle of French wine just went up in value...

[rodeodance]

10. too bad they have a new bush poodle as PRES>

[TahitiNut]

34. Exactly. I doubt Sarkozy is inclined to move promptly, if at all.

He's VERY close to being a fascist himself.

[rodeodance]

11. "an alleged torturer is on its territory."

[EFerrari]

13. I just heard a French lawyer call Rumsfeld "an alleged person"

on Amy Goodman.

lol

:toast:

[AntiFascist]

85. LOLOLOLOL n/t

[rodeodance]

14. The criminal complaint states that because of the failure of authorities in the United States and Ir

The criminal complaint states that because of the failure of authorities in the United States and Iraq to launch any independent investigation into the responsibility of Rumsfeld and other high-level U.S. officials for torture despite a documented paper trail and government memos implicating them in direct as well as command responsibility for torture – and because the U.S. has refused to join the International Criminal Court – it is the legal obligation of states such as France to take up the case.

[bdamomma]

24. yes, take it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! take up the case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[leveymg]

27. Any signatory state can move that a tribunal be convened under the UN Torture Convention.

That body has universal jurisdiction, and neither changes in any particular state's laws nor pardons by national leaders can absolve perpetrators and those who have "command responsibility" for torture.

[rodeodance]

15. This is the fifth time Rumsfeld has been charged with direct involvement in torture stemming from

This is the fifth time Rumsfeld has been charged with direct involvement in torture stemming from his role in the Bush administration’s program of torture post-9/11.

Two previous criminal complaints were filed in Germany under its universal jurisdiction statute, which allows Germany to prosecute serious international crimes regardless of where they occurred or the nationality of the perpetrators or victims. One case was filed in fall 2004 by CCR, FIDH, and Berlin attorney Wolfgang Kaleck; that case was dismissed in February 2005 in response to official pressure from the U.S., in particular from the Pentagon.

[gatorboy]

16. Sacrebleu!

[cooolandrew]

19. Good use of the word sacrebleu or holey *** even.

[dogindia]

47. k&r. magic moment for all the * adminstration.

Is law beginning to prevail? Is there a chance? A few prominent dudes in DC could certainly enjoy a trip to the Hague or Levenworth. Treason is TREASON. Start shaking in your boots. It is about time.

But it is hard to stay angry as such stupidity and arrogance because it just hurts me. Rather let NATURE and LAW take its course.

Is TRUST in the international system in order? Is trust in HUMANITY in order?

I just have no idea. This travesty has gone on so very long without effect.

[cooolandrew]

17. Intresting guess Sarkosi is alright after all.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

18. He's gonna end up like Kissinger

Convicted in absentia of war crimes, unable to go many places in the world because he's still wanted for his war atrocities.

A tiny bit of justice may be had, in any case.

[onehandle]

20. Wake me when he's being tried. In person.

In chains.

[L. Coyote]

22. Will Bush and Cheney be visiting France soon?

[bdamomma]

25. I only wish or even Germany maybe Merkel will get * for excessive

touching of her shoulders!!

[jadedconformist]

77. They can claim immunity as a head of state or government official n/t

[jcla]

139. Lets Hope Gonzales, Rove, Rice and others go to France

and get a long vacation in jail. If these people don't perp walk at home or in the Hague maybe they can do it in FRANCE. (jcla singing "April in Paris")

[Baby Snooks]

26. But laws don't apply to him...

Our laws don't apply to him. Why would anyone think anyone else's laws would? Bush made it clear to the world when he withdrew from the International Court that the law does not apply to the Nazis this time.

[havocmom]

39. neocons & PNACers will claim we have to defend him or all our troops are at risk

Watch for it.

[seemslikeadream]

28. no place to hide.

[yoyossarian]

29. Rumsfeld is a man of intelligence and character!

http://steponnopets.com/peo">President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

[helderheid]

30. WOW!

[Gregorian]

31. Good.

[yoyossarian]

32. Rumsfeld is a man of the people!

He's smarter than Bush (a little)... maybe he should run for President!



http://steponnopets.com/peo">President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

[MiniMe]

33. Perhaps he will visit Germany on his trip too

I think its Germany that has a war crimes warrent sworn out against him, and they have said that they will arrest him if he comes on their soil.

[Junkdrawer]

35. This was on DemocracyNow today...The higher ups in the French Gov't were BLOCKING...

the warrant as of 8:30 AM this morning....

The guys from CCR were asking people to contact the French prosecutors demanding that they take action...

http://ccrjustice.org/get-involved/action/demand-rumsfeld-be-charged-war-crimes

[everydayis911]

125. I tried that site

But for some reason it's down. I hope it's because they have a lot of traffic. But something tells me that's not the case. The site opens but the page is pink with all kinds of encryptions on it.

[tailwind]

130. The site is still down,

I wonder why ...

[Junkdrawer]

132. Looks like their database is down...

Main page is up:

http://ccrjustice.org

but all info pages give db errors...

[Benhurst]

36. Damn!

Why did they have to tear down the Bastille and do away with the guillotine?

[NanceGreggs]

53. My first thought, too ...

... and I'm more than happy to start knitting his shroud.

[solara]

37. If France detains Rumsfeld, will king george declare war on them?

If we attack Iran, we will be fighting Russia anyway.. so why not add Europe to the mix?

Interesting that if george finally succeeds in putting together a world-wide coalition to fight against tyranny it will only be by default.

Geez.. who would have thought that the U.S. of A. would be first to produce the bloodiest and the most amoral and psychopathic tyrant of the 21st Century?




IMPEACH INVESTIGATE INDICT IMPRECATE INCARCERATE :banghead:

[Joe Chi Minh]

41. H L Mencken.

[solara]

45. ????

Sorry, I don't mean to be obtuse, but I am not sure what you are referencing.


IMPEACH INVESTIGATE INDICT IMPRECATE INCARCERATE :banghead:

[Joe Chi Minh]

68. ". . all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre —

the man who can most easily (and) adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H L Mencken

Actually, there's a non sequitur there. It's a slur on the body of mankind. Sure, the soft underbelly will vote for a dictator, the types who would be become secret police, but never the majority. History, after all is very largely, to this very day, a seemingly endless chronicle of the malign ministrations of psychopaths and extreme sociopaths throughout the world; and a democratic government has still to appear.

After WWII, we were fortunate enough in the UK to have a Socialist government which acted pretty much as beneficially as if the MPs were delegates of the people, rather than merely their representatives (however putative).

[solara]

94. Thank you.. And, sadly, your H L Mencken quote is very apt.. have we

achieved our lofty ideal at last?.....is it possible that george the tyrant is a true reflection of our collective inner soul?

I weep


IMPEACH INVESTIGATE INDICT IMPRECATE INCARCERATE :banghead:

[tiptoe]

123. No. Mencken said "As democracy is perfected..." Our democracy was defrauded,

sabotaged...and the clown occupies the office by Election Fraud, NOT by a majority's Will, either in 2000 or 2004.

You decide if..."the office represents, more closely, the inner soul of the people."

* is less Mencken's "lofty ideal" of an approaching "perfected democracy"...more a mere crook -- like Sch*zenegger, but more simian.

[Joe Chi Minh]

144. That's why I qualified it, pointing out that the reality was somewhat

different.

It's the leaders of societies that tend to lead their countries astray. Nazi Germany is also a classic case. In the UK Thatcher. Neither she nor Hitler were elected by a majority of their countrymen. The same with Bush, of course, via the massive election and voter suppression.

[solara]

148. Ahhh.. yes..I should have made that distinction myself..thank you for clarifying

:hi:

IMPEACH INVESTIGATE INDICT IMPRECATE INCARCERATE :banghead:

[emlev]

38. Democracy Now! has detailed coverage on today's show

Friday, October 26th, 2007
On Visit to France, Donald Rumsfeld Hit with Lawsuit for Ordering, Authorizing Torture

[understandinglife]

40. "A torturer is an enemy of all humankind ..."

True.


IT IS TRIBUNAL TIME IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA - and has been since Bush took office

[redqueen]

42. Why are these criminals are only held to any standard of justice while OUTSIDE the US?

:shrug:

[Arugula Latte]

43. A message to the world:

These are the kinds of actions that must be taken against this criminal cabal. We seem unable to stop them; maybe the world united can do it.

Good job France! :toast:

[GliderGuider]

44. France's gift to you of the Statue of Liberty

will be exceeded if they try and convict Rumsferatu.

My only regret is that it should have been Canadians who stood up against the bastards who sent Maher Arar -- among many others -- to be tortured.

[RebelSansCause]

46. OMG i hope they get dear old Rumsy

:woohoo: to France, :yourock: doesn't the UN have some sort of jurisdiction?

[lonestarnot]

48. Does he have relatives on Plum Island?

[liberal N proud]

49. Are they going to detain him?

I would consider him a flight risk and lock him up until the investigation is completed.

[hisownpetard]

105. Just lock him up. Hell, who needs a reason?

[Darth Lenore]

50. Well, it's the thought that counts, right?

This is cool, but I'm not getting too excited unless Rumsfeld actually faces some real consequences as a result of all of this.

[Freedomofspeech]

51. Ooh La La!!!

I love the French!!!

[whistle]

52. Could not have happened to a more deserving person and the same

...standard should be applied to Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez and Rice

[DeSwiss]

54. YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! YES!!!

Do they still use the guillotine in France? If not, couldn't they make one exception in this case??? Please???

[jeff30997]

55. I don't expect much from this.

French President Sarkozy is a damn fascist and he's kissing the US butt like crazy.Reichsführer Rumfilled have nothing to worry about

[Junkdrawer]

60. That would be my guess. I've looked for later news...

and the latest is that the French prosecutor is checking to see if Rummy is still in the country.

Sarkozy was the pick of the voting machines that he approved:

...

As in the United States, there is a group of academic computer scientists that oppose voting machines. They argue that voting machines replace a public, easily understandable counting process, where large-scale fraud would entail large-scale corruption, by an opaque process where votes are counted by machines that voters have to blindly trust. Voting machines have to be approved by the Ministry of the Interior, but this approval is based on confidential reports by private companies. Opponents to the machines point out that the Ministry was long held by Nicolas Sarkozy, who happens to be the leading candidate. Opponents also list a number of weaknesses and discrepancies that have occured in other countries using voting machines.

All main political parties except UMP, Mr Sarkozy's ruling party, oppose the voting machines. Some citizens have filed for court injunctions against the voting machines. Opponents have given detailed instructions that voting witnesses should check whether the machines correspond exactly to an approved type, including software versions, and fulfill all legal conditions. In a sign of the frenzy over the issue, on April 12 the Ministry of the Interior issued a last-minute authorization for a specific model (hardware, firmware). The stakes are high: votes on unapproved machines should be canceled by the Constitutional Council for the official count.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_disputed_in_France

[jeff30997]

70. Wow! Thanks for the info.

I didn't even know that they were using voting machines in France.But of course the fact that

Sarkozy was Minister of the Interior therefore giving the voting machines contract to "friendly"

companies have nothing to do with his "victory" isn't it.:)

[tocqueville]

104. there was some experiments in some minor towns

and the voting machines were probably not even made in France. Besides there was a paper trail.Sarkozy won with nearly a 5% difference in a paper ballot vote where 85% participated. So you can blame Sarkozy for a lot, but not for that. It's practically impossible to cheat at elections in France. At least not on a major scale.

[madokie]

57. he'll be prosecuted too before this is all said and done

as most in this criminal regime will be.

[Redstone]

58. "Sound and fury, signifyng nothing."

Redstone

[f the letter]

90. i hear you, but this is not insignificant.

The legal endgame of it isn't the only thing that matters in a case like this.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

59. PLAME ENCAPSULATED THE WAR EFFORT BEST

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2137057
MSNBC HARDBALL, PLAME SAYS IT WAS TREASON

[danhan]

61. If only

If only such a thing could REALLY happen.

[earth mom]

63. Why didn't they arrest his a$$, lock him up & throw away the key?

:grr:

[jeff30997]

72. Please see post #55...

They have their hown Neocons in charge now.

[earth mom]

81. My, my. How convenient.

:grr:

[MilesColtrane]

64. The French know what to do with tyrants and traitors.

[Felinity]

76. Guilty!

Any chance there's a little rust on that blade? A merciful execution would be inhumane.

[Diclotican]

95. MilesColtrane

MilesColtrane

Once in the times, you do know to do with tyrants and traitors yourself.. Today you dosent dear to do someting even if it hit your right in the face..

Poor USA... But it maybee not be _too_ late yet...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[MilesColtrane]

122. God dag Diclotican.

Velkommen å DU.

Det er beklagelige , bortsett fra USA er ikke kontrollert av amerikaneren folk mere.

Jeg håper det vi kanne ha tillit til våre venner vannrett det Atlanta å gjøre det riktige.

Your English is better than my Norwegian!

[Diclotican]

129. MilesColtrane

MilesColtrane

God dag MilesColtrane

Yes, it is bad when USA are not controlled by the american public anymore..

I do hope, to have trust in our friends, over there in USA to do the right thing, even if it take some times to do it.. To this day US have allways doing the right thing - in the end.. And I hope that one day, we can be both good friends, and good allied again, as we once was. And can be again..

Wel, it is maybee becouse I use the language everyday, and not egenlish. If I have to use engelish everyday, everytime I may get little better over time:P. But if you try not to use some of this "direct-translate" program you may be better off.. Direct-translate program is good, but when it come to the finer points of another language it is not good enough... But then, it is similar to when I use direct-translate language too;) It is better to use the old Dictionary from School..

And I belive you are better in Engelish, then I am anyway:)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[OwnedByFerrets]

65. Damn those little Knats.....

dont they know their place in the world. They had better watch out....we will sanction them with nukes, or even worse, put another O'Lielly boycott on their asses.:sarcasm:

[jeff30997]

71. I agree !

Let send them back their crappy Statue of Liberty and flush French wine down the toilet!:sarcasm: (For the sarcasm impaired)

[opihimoimoi]

66. Rummy will get to eat Freedom Toast and Crow Under Glass

I hope he gets jail time.....

[eallen]

67. Unfortunately, not. Only a comlaint has been filed,. So far.

I hope it will turn into a formal charge. But that hasn't happened. Yet.

:hippie:

[Mojambo]

73. No place to hide... Yeah, except the United States of America.

Where torture is pretty much a-okay.

[LynneSin]

74. Don't forget Saudi Arabia and UAE

Plus they could be putting together something in Paraguay

[stirlingsliver]

78. Get The Bastard!

I hope Rummy is handcuffed and forced to do the perp walk down the Champs Elysee.

Then I hope he is taken to Devil's Island and forced to suffer the same kind of imprisonment he authorized.

[Diclotican]

97. stirlingsliver

stirlingsliver

I hope this time Mr Rumsfeld indeed are facing a posible trail.. I really doubt he wil be convicted, even that the prov about his misshefs is greater than ever.. This man wil, as many before him never be send to trial, and never send to prison.. But they wil be jugded by their action, and if I know it, it wil be bad, verry bad.. And for a man who belived in "fate", a repotation who are down the drain is extremely bad news..

I doubt the french are sending prisoners to Devils Island anymore.. I belive it was closed down for sivlians after WW2.. But I belive thei still send military prisoners to The Devils Island, But I doubt they are as bad as their once was in the coloni there...


Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[lil d]

79. Yay for the French

Freedom Fries out, French Fries in.

[kestrel91316]

80. Vive la France!!!!!! There's some raw courage for ya.

[lovuian]

82. I remember Kissinger was running when they were after him

Yep they can't travel like they use too

[Disturbed]

83. Further Evidence Rumsfeld Implicated in War Crimes

Further Evidence Rumsfeld Implicated in War Crimes

Please read this important post by Marty Lederman, Army Confirms: Rumsfeld Authorized Criminal Conduct.

Here's a key section, but there's more:
The Army's charges against Jordan reflect the view, undoubtedly correct, that the use of forced nudity or intimidation with dogs against detainees subject to military control constitutes cruelty and maltreatment that Article 93 makes criminal. It doesn't matter whether they are or are not "torture," as such; nor does it matter whether the armed forces should be permitted to use such interrogation techniques: As things currently stand, they are unlawful, as even the Army now acknowledges.

But then how can we account for the actions of the Secretary of Defense and his close aides?

On November 27, 2002, Pentagon General Counsel William Haynes, following discussions with Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz, General Myers, and Doug Feith, informed the Secretary of Defense that forced nudity and the use of the fear of dogs to induce stress were lawful techniques, and he recommended that they be approved for use at Guantanamo.
(The lists of techniques to which Haynes was referring can be found in this memorandum.) On December 2, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld approved those techniques for use at Guantanamo -- and subsequently those techniques were used on detainee Mohammed al-Qahtani.

In other words, the Secretary of Defense authorized criminal conduct.

Today's Army charge under UCMJ Article 93 against Lt. Col. Jordan -- for conduct that the SecDef actually authorized as to some detainees -- demonstrates that Rumsfeld approved of, and encouraged, violations of the criminal law.

http://www.discourse.net/archives/2006/04/further_evidence_rumsfeld_implicated_in_war_crimes.html

[0007]

131. Case in point!



[rabies1]

86. They still have the guillotine?

Merci for doing what we should have done.
- we're with you.

[Diclotican]

98. rabies1

rabies1

No, their dont have the Guillotine. The practise ended in 1984! when a rapist, murderer and the lot was the final man to be executed used the instrument.. But they stil HAVE the Guillotine in the prison, now as a museum pice... But the instrument wil with no doubt be usable today.. This thing was build to last a long, long time...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[rabies1]

137. This was a joke. Humor.

Meant to be funny.

But I guess not.

[Diclotican]

142. rabies1

rabies1

Okay;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[bobthedrummer]

87. He is a traitor to our Constitution and a war profiteer/ criminal eom

[Richard Steele]

88. 101st rec! nm

[f the letter]

89. This is great

All right! Somebody take these people to task

[SalmonChantedEvening]

91. My Stars, am I in a pickle? You Bet!

Great News!! :woohoo:

Let em start falling!

[Froward69]

96. Rec #110 pass the "French" fries

[trashcanistanista]

99. Merci beau coup France!

Vive la France!

[Canuckistanian]

100. The 26% must be OUTRAGED at this point

But fuck 'em. They're a slim minority in a country that's being increasingly isolated from the world.

In other words, cult status.

[Land Shark]

101. Ironically, passing the Military Commissions Act of 2006 effectively greenlighted int'l prosecution

because it meant that any domestic (US-based) remedies against Rumsfeld were exhausted in the US, thus enabling international prosecutions. A couple years ago or so, a suit was dismissed in German courts (I believe) because of the failure to exhaust remedies in the US (or at least the arguable failure) which remedies were "exhausted" by passage of the Military Commissions act of 2006.

[Auntie Bush]

103. This all sounds great, but where are they going to get the evidence?

Bush will say everything is top secret/classified and will be blacked out. No way will anyone see the paperwork behind the torture issue. If the Dems can't find out, how will a foreign country get the needed evidence, files and information? IMPOSSIBLE! ALL THIS EXCITEMENT FOR NOTHING!

However, should this ever come to trial...I hope Paraguay will jump on board. I laugh at the thoughts of bush being denied entry to his safe place from the angry Americans and his lack of access to all that expensive fresh water...he'd lose tens of billions. :)

[AllyCat]

106. Doing what the US will not do. Although I'll really get excited when they arrest him

[Rex]

107. Are you watching Dickhead and Boy Bush?

One more year and then you can't travel outside the US. People want you to spend time in jail. Imagine that.

[ooglymoogly]

108. Thank the gods somebody is upholding the law!

Notice he left through a door directly into the US embassy where he can't get arrested by the French. The Embassy used to be a haven to protect the innocent. Now it is a hideout for criminals to seek protection from lawful prosecution. Persona non grate in spades

[raging moderate]

109. LIBERTE! EGALITE! FRATERNITE!

MERCI BEAUCOUP! VIVE LA FRANCE!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

121. How can they lure him out onto French soil???

Does he like champagne?

A fresh prisoner to torture as temptation?

[ooglymoogly]

141. with 20 pieces of silver. nt

[djp2]

110. Get BUSH to France

Will this keep BUSH from ever going to France again??

[djp2]

111. Extradition?

Does France have an extradition treaty with the US? Wouldn't the US have to send him back if charged??

[NBachers]

112. Joining a Pantheon of Miscreants

"Baby Doc" Duvalier
Manuel Noriega
Idi Amin
Augusto Pinochet
Donald Rumsfeld

[orleans]

114. united states to france: PLEASE ARREST RUMSFUCK. k&r n/t

[orleans]

116. i just had to copy this part of the article: (for posterity)

Former U.S. Army Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, former commander of Abu Ghraib and other U.S.-run prisons in Iraq, submitted written testimony to the Paris Prosecutor for the plaintiffs’ case on Rumsfeld’s responsibility for the abuse of detainees.

This is the fifth time Rumsfeld has been charged with direct involvement in torture stemming from his role in the Bush administration’s program of torture post-9/11.

Two previous criminal complaints were filed in Germany under its universal jurisdiction statute, which allows Germany to prosecute serious international crimes regardless of where they occurred or the nationality of the perpetrators or victims. One case was filed in fall 2004 by CCR, FIDH, and Berlin attorney Wolfgang Kaleck; that case was dismissed in February 2005 in response to official pressure from the U.S., in particular from the Pentagon.

The second case was filed in fall 2006 by the same groups as well as dozens of national and international human rights groups, Nobel Peace Prize winners and the United Nations former Special Rapporteur on Torture. The 2006 complaint was presented on behalf of 12 Iraqi citizens who had been held and abused in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and one Saudi citizen still held at Guantánamo. This case was dismissed in April 2007, and an appeal will be filed against this decision next week.

Two other cases were filed against Rumsfeld in Argentina in 2005 and in Sweden in 2007.

http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/donald-rumsfeld-charged-torture-during-trip-france

[Octafish]

117. Make him dig his own latrine.

That's what one of his former Iraqi friends had to do.

[Duppers]

120. coverage in the NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/27/world/europe/27rumsfeld.html?_r=1&ref=europe&oref=slogin

"Groups Tie Rumsfeld to Torture in Complaint"

Rather mild statement considering.

[everydayis911]

124. Seeing as how

Our government doesn't listen to us is there some way we can show support to the French so they know they have the US populous behind them? Or are they going to get Anthrax letters if they proceed. Or Blackwater to rescue Rumsfailed. Maybe they can lure Bush and Cheney there just to pick Donnie up and they take the axis of evil from us. Hell they should have arrested Bush when he was in Germany.

[Why Syzygy]

126. Wonderful News!

worth another rec and bookmark . a day to remember :D

[MonkeyFunk]

127. Sounds like some parties filed a complaint.

It's a stretch to say Rumsfeld was charged. That implies he was indicted.

[tiptoe]

133. Foot dragging? Complaint filed 5pm Thursday, Paris time. Only *late* (?!) Friday did the Paris ...

state prosecutor's office [ report-about-seeking or begin-seeking ?] details re possible immunity from prosecution and whether Rumsfeld was still in the country.

Source: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071027/twl-france-us-germany-iraq-rights-rumsfe-7e07afd.html

...
The International Federation of Human Rights (FIDH), the French League for Human Rights (LDH), the US Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) and Germany's European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR) filed the joint suit before a Paris prosecutor on Thursday.
...
The Paris state prosecutor's office said late Friday it had asked the French foreign ministry for details on whether Rumsfeld was immune from prosecution and whether he was still in the country.
...
Rumsfeld's agenda during the rest of his stay in Paris was kept under wraps for security reasons.

I hope the phrasing above doesn't mean action by the Prosecutor's office was only *begun* late Friday, but means, rather, action initiated early in the day was *reported* late Friday, given the Jeanne Sulzer was interviewed Friday morning October 26th, 2007 and expressed concern about Rumsfeld 'escaping'?

...
Well, the complaint was filed yesterday before the Paris prosecutor around 5:00 p.m. Paris time. This morning, Rumsfeld was present at the conference where he was scheduled. So what we are awaiting now is signs from the prosecutor to know whether an investigation has been opened or not.
...
So, as of now, again, we are waiting to see whether the prosecutor is still reviewing the complaint, and hopefully he will not wait too long, because our fears are that Rumsfeld will escape as soon as he can. So now the big issue is the pressure on the prosecutor and, of course, the higher-ups of the French authorities to take a decision on the complaint. But France has a very clear obligation to investigate and prosecute into this case under the torture convention, as Rumsfeld is present on the French territory...

[Junkdrawer]

134. Would Right Winger Sarkozy help Donny? Are Bears Catholic?

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

See my post above on Sarkozy & Voting Machines...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2141037&mesg_id=2142893

[tiptoe]

136. Ok, thanks!

[rockybelt]

135. Rummy

The real shame here, besides the atrocities of this regime, is that it took a foreign nation to bring charges.
Shame on the U.S. Congress!!!

[NotGivingUp]

138. alright!!!! get his ass!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[NotGivingUp]

140. i r'd the last time...this time i'm just kickin it up! n/t

[Garbo 2004]

146. Complaint filed; he hasn't yet been charged by prosecutors. Significant difference.

[Blue_Tires]

153. another kick