US soldiers shy from battle in Iraq

[donsu]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ26Ak07.html


Iraq war veterans now stationed at a base here in upstate New York say that morale among US soldiers in the country is so poor, many are simply parking their Humvees and pretending to be on patrol, a practice dubbed "search and avoid" missions.

-snip-

Aliff said he participated in roughly 300 patrols. "We were hit by so many roadside bombs we became incredibly demoralized, so we decided the only way we wouldn't be blown up was to avoid driving around all the time."

"So we would go find an open field and park, and call our base every hour to tell them we were searching for weapons caches in the fields and doing weapons patrols and everything was going fine," he said, adding, "All our enlisted people became very disenchanted with our chain of command."

-snip-

Other active duty Iraq veterans tell similar stories of disobeying orders so as not to be attacked so frequently.

"We'd go to the end of our patrol route and set up on top of a bridge and use it as an over-watch position," Eli Wright, also an active duty soldier with the 10th Mountain Division, told IPS. "We would just sit with our binoculars and observe rather than sweep. We'd call in radio checks every hour and say we were doing sweeps."

Wright added, "It was a common tactic, a lot of people did that. We'd just hang out, listen to music, smoke cigarettes, and pretend." The 26-year-old medic complained that his unit did not have any armored Humvees during his time in Iraq, where he was stationed in Ramadi, capital of the volatile al-Anbar province.

-snip-

"We never got training for a lot of the work we did," he explained. "We had a white phosphorous mortar round that cooked off in the back of one of our trucks, because we loaded that with some other ammo, and we weren't trained how to do it the right way."

The "search and avoid" missions appear to have been commonplace around much of Iraq for years now.
-snip-
-------------------------

[pansypoo53219]

1. better to sit and watch their tails

than running in circles chasing it where you are likely to get said tail blown off. looks like the fodder is catching on to their situation.

[tuckessee]

2. Shades of Vietnam.

Phantom patrols became common in the latter days of US involvement in Vietnam as morale sunk & soldiers decided that dying for some gung-ho lifer officer's career was not a good idea.

This is good. A small crack in the wall of mindless militarism & order following.

It always starts from the bottom. Those who are waiting for the officer class to rebel against the war will be waiting 'til the proverbial cows come home.

[Nickster]

12. That's exactly what I thought too. Sounds very familiar.

[Javaman]

39. Didn't fragging increase as the war progressed as well? nt

[Nickster]

40. As morale started to collapse with the protracted war, yes.

[Vadem]

3. Oh, right, the U.S. has not used white phosphorous ....

The soldier in the story let it slip:

"We had a white phosphorous mortar round..."

[Squatch]

7. As an artilleryman, I can tell you that the use of WP is

absolutely, positively routine. In fact, tactical fire direction decision matrices for attacking certain types of targets, namely POL or ammunition dumps, lead invariably to either just HE or WP or a combination of the two (shake and bake).

Additionally, WP is used as a quick obscurent (smoke screen) or as marking for CAS airframes.

[Vadem]

29. Thanks for responding and thank you so much for your service

to our Country. What you have told us about WP (white phosphorous) as ALWAYS being used, has just proved to us that George W. Bush has consistently lied to us, the American public; he has stated that NO WHITE PHOSPHOROUS AMMUNITIONS HAVE EVER BEEN USED IN IRAQ!!!! The coroners in the Iraqi morgues have told us about this strange body burning to the bone of the corpses that they have viewed that were very mysterious and they suggested that it was WP!

The U.S. has denied from the get-go that they have used WP! They are liars and worse than that, they are war criminals who need to be dragged to Hague and tried for war crimes and imprisoned!

[Selatius]

32. Bush denied it because he was afraid of losing allies so soon after the invasion, is my guess.

Many nations in the original coalition banned the use of White Phosphorus. For them, they considered it the equivalent of using chemical weapons.

[Squatch]

33. M825 and M110 smoke are both 155mm WP artillery munitions

M825 is used as a classic smoke screen while M110 is used as both a smoke screen and bursting munition.

WP is commonplace and it would be weird to have a UBL that does not include some form of WP.

[AndyTiedye]

4. And WHY Did they Have White Phosphorus Mortar Rounds in the First Place?

[Squatch]

8. It's part of their UBL

[Selatius]

31. If you believe using White Phosphorus as a weapon is against the law, you'd be wrong in that belief.

As it stands, current conventions don't ban the US from using WP as a weapon on the battlefield, even though some may think it's basically the equivalent of using chemical weapons.

[Cha]

5. Rec'd

We have reality in one corner and the joker and her retarded monkey in the other. The corporatemediawhores are pulling for the monkey.

[acmavm]

6. No friggin' wonder the casualty count is going down. The

grunts in the field are using their heads instead of going and getting themselves blown all to hell all for the benefit of corporate America.

I would be sooooo bitter if I were them.

[WilliamPitt]

9. Good.

[Squatch]

10. While soldiers going AWOL in CONUS is bad enough

Not performing the mission assigned to you because of you're being "disenchanted" is the epitome of cowardice. The time to protest the war and take a stand against it is NOT while you are assigned to a combatant command and in theater.

These in-actions have increased the possibility that soldiers who may follow on after the so-called "accomplishment" of these missions will get killed and cannot be tolerated.

[WilliamPitt]

13. Explain, please.

My thinking on this is admittedly short-term: they are, in this, neither being killed nor killing.

Not performing the mission assigned to you...

What is that mission again?

Come. On.

[Squatch]

25. If an NCO tells you that he accomplished a mission, you tend to believe them

and most commanders will base future decisions on that trust.

In these cases, having an NCO tell you that they've cleared a patrol area when they have not, will put any soldier who enters that area in the future at a distinct and higher risk.

[superkia]

30. Do they ever really clear an area? Clear it and 10 mins later...

they are back. I think you should go join and see what is really happening before you cast your negative thoughts on those guys over there. Hell just go join and follow orders to fight a war with no end, make sure you have your will and testament taken care of though cause you probably wont be back.

[Nickster]

16. This is a different situation. Alot of these guys have been in theater several times and have put

their butts on the line time and time again. These guys aren't cowards at all. They've been there and they know that the "missions" that they've been tasked with are as crazy as they were back in Vietnam. Remember search and destroy missions? Go into an area, fight like heck, and then pull out. Come back in a few months, fight like heck, and then pull out. How many lives do we need to lose for the same piece of terrain? This is a war against insurgents that will keep popping up over and over again. Why should our soldiers be sent into a meat grinder just to say that we could? To rack up the body counts. "Today 50 more VC...ummm I mean Al Qaeda.....were killed."

How many of them are suffering from PTSD already? Dubya has broken this military. They are suffering from mission fatigue and lack of command focus. It's just a matter of waiting it out until the politicians finally figure out a way to remove them while claiming victory. We know it and the troops know it. Why die for a lie?

[DS1]

19. Define it as you will, but I fully support this

and would be doing the same damn thing, regardless of the shit you'd be talking about it from afar. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Huh.

Wouldn't the epitome of cowardice be sitting behind a desk in the U.S. while telling real troops actually in Iraq that they're cowards?

[Squatch]

24. Unlike most of the keyboard commandos on this board

I actually do this shit for a living and have been for the past 11 years. I now have two deployments under my belt and am going back for a third next October (this time to OEF)

So, Rush, you want to call me a phoney soldier again, motherfucker?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Well then by all means, Rambo...

Go and show these "cowards" how to do it.

[tabasco]

28. A definite leadership challenge.

I understand the reason these soldiers are doing this. I also understand the need for military discipline. Unfortunately, the "mission" has become so plainly useless and counterproductive that what these soldiers are doing might be the right thing to do. There is no objective, no progress, only an endless occupation and killing. Every innocent Iraqi that gets killed makes more Iraqis dedicated to killing Americans. The joes probably respect the E-6 that lets them do this more than the deluded officers expecting them to get their ass blown off for nothing. This occupation WILL end and everything that we have done there will evaporate. Our puppet governement will disappear, our bases will be taken over, the Iraqis will determine their own fate. Our soldiers are not stupid. They don't want to be the last one to die for a pack of lies. When the national leadership puts the military in this position, the collapse of morale is inevitable. I blame Bush and Cheney for the phony patrols, not the soldiers.

I got a Ranger tab and a CIB. Am I a keyboard commando too?

[JohnnyLib2]

11. Sounds like the Army I knew and didn't love at the time.

It's also a vivid slice of reality in the middle of the media wars about this whole tragic war.

[K8-EEE]

14. K&R

Interesting.

[EFerrari]

15. Good.

[jhain]

17. As I read this

there was a McCain for President ad flashing beneath it.

Does anyone else feels as if the entire world has morphed into a surreal nightmare?
or maybe it's because I listed to Condi for hours today.

[pointblank]

36. You might feel this way

because of this shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo

[gateley]

18. K&R nt

[shadowknows69]

20. I've been retelling this story in my taxi reports for a while now

Pretty strange seeing my city's name in the asia times.

[tridim]

21. Just as long as our tax dollars keep flowing to BushCo's contractor friends.

That's all that matters.

Can we pull out now? Please?

[hvn_nbr_2]

22. Any bets on how long before the army puts GPS tracking devices in vehicles?

They'll claim it's so they can find them when they're kidnapped or attacked, or make up some other bullshit.

Here's a great business idea for some GPS manufacturer: A nice little investment ("donation" to RNC or Cheney's slush fund) idea that could reap billions in business. They'll find money for GPSs even though there's no money for armor.

[Squatch]

34. I'll bet you dollars to donuts they already have:

(C'mon...take the bet)

FBCB2 aka Blue Force Tracker

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. What if they gave a war and nobody came? Looks like the GIs are coming to their senses,

[lonestarnot]

35. GOOOD MORNING VIETNAM

[tuckessee]

37. kick n/t

[dkofos]

38. Is this the real reson for the lower casualty figures??