Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why does everybody hate the Kurds?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:05 PM
Original message
Why does everybody hate the Kurds?
Saddam gassed them. Turkey sure hates their guts.

What's the history, there? What's with the Kurds? Or do they just have lousy neighbors?
Why did Constantinople get the works?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't. I don't even know them.
I just wish my country would quit starting wars and then abandoning them. They might think I had something to do with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rhythm and Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here's why.
Edited on Mon Oct-22-07 07:08 PM by Rhythm and Blue


They're an ethnic majority in a large swath of the mideast, but do not have a state, and have been consistently agitating for one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. That map shows land they stole, not land they legitimately own.
Edited on Mon Oct-22-07 07:28 PM by Boojatta
They all come from a town in Poland and they should all go back there and stop inflaming the Middle East by being in the Middle East.

You may have heard of that town in Poland. It's called Auschwitz.

:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rhythm and Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The world would have been a much nicer place
if, when the artificial colonial borders were drawn, Europeans made so much as a half-assed attempt to draw the lines along ethnic boundaries. An Arab Shi'a state and a Kurdistan would have made the situation much nicer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. IIRC, historically they had more land.
Down to the Black Sea in the north.

They were, um, cleansed from the area. That the Kurds did a number on the Armenians is simply evidence they learned how it's done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rhythm and Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yeah, that map shows only areas with 51%+ Kurdish population at present.
A historical Greater Kurdistan would be much larger--and fear of a vengeful, expansion-minded Kurdistan certainly drives a great deal of regional opposition to Iraqi Kurds gaining greater autonomy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. It helps to remember that the Kurds went in with the Medes
and the Persians.

Hell, they might be the descendents of the Medes and other Iranian groups that in-migrated with them. We're talking 1000 BC and before.

The Turks are newcomers, 1100-1200 AD, just a few hundred years after the Arabs showed up, and moved in from Central Asia. There were Greeks in the area, Armenians, and a lot more Kurds before they were displaced by Turks. Both Arabs and Turks embarked on assimilation efforts, making sure that they were on top.

The Turks also believed in ethnic reshuffling. The business Stalin did with the Tatars in WWII and the Moldovans after them, picking them up and moving them elsewhere to break up ethnic cohesion and reduce them to a minority ... old practice. Ivan IV ("the Terrible") did it to the Russians in Novgorod, probably picked it up from the Horde. And the Ottomans/Turks were masters at it, shuffling Circassians and Armenians and everybody else around whenever they were a problem. It was the price for "tolerance".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's nobody's bizness but the Turks...
I had Spam Kurds at the fair and they were great!

(sorry...)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. I never realized Little Miss Mufett was Turkish n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You are whey out of line. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Maybe it's cuz they monopolize the tuffet.
Stinkin' Kurds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It, Therefore, follows that Kurds must be fattening n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. some history
A very early record of confrontation between Kurds and Sassanid Empire appears in a historical text named Book of the Deeds of Ardashir son of Babak. In this book, the author explains the battle between Ardashir I and Madig king of the Kurds in the early 3rd century. Ardashir killed one thousand of the Kurds, while others were wounded and taken prisoners; and out of the Kurds that were imprisoned, he sent to Pars their king with his sons, brothers, children, his abundant wealth and property.<27> This battle has also been reported by the Persian poet Firdawsi in his epic Shahnama (Volume 6, Chapters 61,71,72), in which the name of the Kurdish King appears as Mdk.<28><29><30>

. . . In 696, Kurds joined the Khariji revolt near Hulwan.<40>
Under the caliphs of Baghdad the Kurds were always giving trouble in one quarter or another. In 838, and again in 905, formidable insurrections occurred in northern Kurdistan; the amir, Aqpd-addaula, was obliged to lead the forces of the caliphate against the southern Kurds, capturing the famous fortress of Sermaj, whose ruins are to be seen at the present day near Behistun, and reducing the province of Shahrizor with its capital city now marked by the great mound of Yassin Teppeh.


. . . Removal of the population from along their borders with the Ottomans in Kurdistan and the Caucasus was of strategic importance to the Safavids. Hundreds of thousands of Kurds, along with large groups of Armenians, Assyrians, Azeris, and Turkmens, were forcibly removed from the border regions and resettled in the interior of Persia. As the borders moved progressively eastward, as the Ottomans pushed deeper into the Persian domains, entire Kurdish regions of Anatolia were at one point or another exposed to horrific acts of despoilation and deportation. These began under the reign of the Safavid Shah Tahmasp I (ruled 1524-1576). Between 1534 and 1535, Tahmasp began the systematic destruction of the old Kurdish cities and the countryside. When retreating before the Ottoman army, Tahmasp ordered the destruction of crops and settlements of all sizes, driving the inhabitants before him into Azerbaijan, from where they were later transferred permanently, nearly 1000 miles east, into Khurasan. Some Kurdish tribes were deported even farther east, into Gharjistan in the Hindu Kush mountains of present day Afghanistan, about 1500 miles away from their homes in western Kurdistan.

. . . Some of the Kurdist groups sought self-determination and the championing in the Treaty of Svres of Kurdish autonomy in the aftermath of World War I, but the Turkish resurgence under Kemal Atatrk prevented such a result. Kurds backed by the United Kingdom declared independence in 1927 and established so-called Republic of Ararat. Turkey suppressed Kurdist revolts in 1925, 1930, and 1937 - 1938, while Iran did the same in the 1920s. A short-lived Soviet-sponsored Kurdish Republic of Mahabad in Iran did not long outlast World War II.

. . . During 1920s and 1930s, several large scale Kurdish revolts took place in this region. The most important ones were 1) Saikh Said Rebellion in 1925, 2) Ararat Revolt in 1930 and 3) Dersim Revolt in 1938 (see Kurds in Turkey). Following these rebellions, the area of Turkish Kurdistan was put under martial law and a large number of the Kurds were displaced. Government also encouraged resettlement of Albanians from Kosovo and Assyrians in the region to change the population makeup. These events and measures led to a long-lasting mutual distrust between Ankara and the Kurds <62>.

. . . In 1974, Iraqi government began a new offensive against the Kurds and pushed them close to the border with Iran. Moreover, Iraq informed Tehran that it was willing to satisfy other Iranian demands in return for an end to its aid to the Kurds. With the mediation of the Algerian President Houari Boumdinne, Iran and Iraq reached a comprehensive settlement in March 1975 known as Algiers Pact. The agreement left the Kurds helpless and Tehran cut supplies to the Kurdish movement. Barzani fled to Iran with many of his supporters. Others surrendered en masse and the rebellion was finished in a few days. As a result Iraqi government extended its control over northern region after 15 years and in order to secure its influence, started an Arabization program by moving Arabs to the oil fields in Kurdistan, particularly the ones around Kirkuk.<9> The repressive measures carried out by the government against Kurds after the Algiers agreement, led to renewed clashes between the Iraqi Army and Kurdish guerrillas in 1977. As a result in 1978 and 1979, 600 Kurdish villages were burned down and around 200,000 Kurds were deported to the other parts of the country.<10>

. . . The incorporation into Turkey of the Kurdish-inhabited regions of eastern Anatolia was opposed by many Kurds, and has resulted in a long-running separatist conflict in which thousands of lives have been lost. The region saw several major Kurdish rebellions during the 1920s and 1930s. These were forcefully put down by the Turkish authorities and the region was declared a closed military area from which foreigners were banned between 1925 and 1965. A major campaign to eradicate separatist sentiment by severely restricting Kurdish cultural and political activities was undertaken by Turkey's first president, Kemal Ataturk, and continued in varying degrees of severity under his successors.

In 1983, a number of provinces were placed under martial law in response to the activities of the militant separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).<4> An extremely violent guerrilla war took place through the rest of the 1980s and into the 1990s, in which much of the countryside was evacuated, thousands of Kurdish-populated villages were destroyed and numerous extra judicial summary executions were carried out by both sides.<6> More than 37,000 people were killed in the violence and hundreds of thousands more were forced to leave their homes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Similar history as my folks (Basques)
or the Irish -- they don't have a state and are repressed, and have found that going "boom!" can be one way to have a voice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Is that a Tom Lehrer song?
Oh, wait, no. Sorry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rhythm and Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Originally The Four Lads, covered by They Might Be Giants.
The great TL wasn't part of it, though it is up his alley.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I wish Tom Lehrer were still writing songs but

he made a good point that political satire became obsolete when Kissinger was given the Nobel Peace Prize.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. let the kurds have their whey
sorry
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. God Damn It.
I had this truly great "whey" comment all lined up when I saw the title of the OP, and about half a dozen of you yokels already beat me to it. There goes my DUZY. Thanks a lot, DU!

:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well, a person I knew of Assyrian who grew up in Iraq
once went on a surprising tirade about how the international media has propped up the Kurds as the "good guys" in Iraq just because Saddam hates them, but that the Kurds are actually thieves who got everything they have by stealing it from someone else... "they stole my grandfather's farm in the 1920s" and so on. I don't know if any of that is true, but he was pretty animated about it and it seems to me that perhaps a lot of people in the region really feel that way about them on a personal level. My acquaintance concluded his rant by saying "my village was next to one of the last villages of Jews in Iraq, and we were even more persecuted than they were! When you're more persecuted than the Jews, then you're really in deep shit! But the Kurds? Oh man..."

Speaking historically, the Kurds don't get along with their neighbors because they are a distinct group. They are neither Turks nor Arabs, and some of them follow faiths such as the Yazidi sect which are on the margins of Islam. Furthermore, their mountainous environment has made them difficult for their more powerful neighbors to subdue and assimilate them. Lastly, the most famous Muslim military figure, Saladin, was a Kurd. Apparently this accident of history leads others to say that the Kurds are stuck up because of their history. I've got no personal experience with any of this but it's what I've learned from studying about the region and talking with a lot of people who have lived there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spirochete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. They make my cottage cheese all lumpy
and hard to spread on a cracker.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 21st 2014, 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC