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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 03:10 PM
Original message
Sunday: 74 Iraqis Killed, 83 Wounded
At least 74 Iraqis were killed or found dead and 83 more were wounded in the latest violence. Most of the casualties occurred during a U.S. raid in Sadr City. During incidents at the Turkish border another 45 people were killed and 24 more were wounded. No foreign military were reported killed in Iraq.

A major incident occurred in the Baghdad suburb of Sadr City. A U.S. forces raid targeting a suspect believed to lead a kidnapping cell resulted in the deaths of dozens of people. U.S. authorities said a total of 49 gunmen were killed during the raid and subsequent air strikes. Police and hospital spokespeople reported that as many as 13 civilians were killed and 69 more were injured. Two toddlers were among the dead.

In developments near the Turkish border, clashes between Kurdish rebels and troops left at least 12 Turkish troops dead and 16 wounded. The rebels claim to have taken several hostages and killed more Turkish soldiers, while Turkish authorities say that 32 rebels were killed. A landmine killed one person and wounded eight others on a minibus. Also, the Turkish military continues to shell border areas in Iraq.

http://www.antiwar.com/updates/?articleid=11791



Warplanes dropping bombs on a crowded slum city such as Sadr after which US brass declares they killed 49 gunmen? On the other hand Iraqi authorities say that among all the civilians, two toddlers were in the killed group.

It is getting almost impossible to believe the US military press version of the truth these days.
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. so we're busy winning hearts and minds in the afterlife again... how "special"
:sarcasm:
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AnotherMother4Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R - lest they be forgotten..... God help us n/t
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debunkthelies Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. 74 Iraqis killed, 83 wounded
And this is what I got in an e-mail, it starts with a history lesson and then the propaganda:

----- Original Message -----
From: al
To: al ; ALAN SPITZ ; AVIV KATZ ; BILL SCHROEDER ; bob rose ; Chuck Peck ; 'CHUCK SCHWARTZ' ; [email protected] ; Danny Dimont ; Dayna ; eeme bross ; ELANE ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; GREGORY GREENE ; Jeff Berkoff ; Joe Mittelman ; Joe Siegal ; LEWIS ANTEN ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; MERV YORK ; richard berkoff ; RON ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; STU&JAN FISHBEIN ; Sy Schaffel ; [email protected] ; ALAN SPITZ
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:15 PM
Subject: FW: Please take the time to read this even if you dissent on our foreign pol...



From: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 1:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fwd: Please take the time to read this even if you dissent on our foreign pol...

This is very interesting to read no matter what your opinion is of the
"War
on Terrorism." Please take the time...it is worth the price those
before us
paid for "freedom of speech.




HISTORY THAT HAS BEEN LEFT OUT OF OUR TEXTBOOKS.


SOME OF YOU ( US ) ARE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THAT NEARLY EVERY
FAMILY
IN AMERICA WAS GROSSLY AFFECTED BY WWII. MOST OF YOU PROBABLY DO NOT
REMEMBER THE RATIONING OF MEAT, SHOES, GASOLINE, AND SUGAR. NO TIRES
FOR
OUR AUTOMOBILES, AND A SPEED LIMIT OF 35 MILES AN HOUR ON THE ROAD. NOT
TO
MENTION, NO NEW AUTOMOBILES.



READ THIS AND THINK ABOUT HOW WE WOULD REACT TO BEING TAKEN OVER BY
FOREIGNERS IN 2007.



This is an EXCELLENT writing. Well thought out and presented. It has
Historical Significance.



Sixty-three y ears ago, Nazi Germany had overrun almost all of Europe
and
hammered England to the verge of bankruptcy and defeat, and had sunk
more
than four hundred British ships in their convoys between England and
America
for food and war materials.



At that time the U.S. Was in an isolationist, pacifist mood, and most
Americans wanted nothing to do with the European or the Asian war.



Then along came Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, and in outrage
Congress
unanimously declared war on Japan , and the following day on Germany ,
which
had not yet attacked us.



It was a dicey thing. We had few allies. France was not an ally, as the
Vichy government of France quickly aligned itself with its German
occupiers.
Germany was certainly not an ally, as Hitler was intent on setting up a
Thousand Year Reich in Europe . Japan was not an ally, as it was well
on its
way to owning and controlling all of Asia .



Together, Japan and Germany had long-range plans of invading Canada
and
Mexico , as launching pads to get into the United States over our
northern
and southern borders, after they finished gaining control of Asia and
Europe
. America 's only allies then were England , Ireland , Scotland ,
Canada ,
Australia , and Russia . That was about it.



All of Europe, from Norway to Italy , except Russia in the East, was
already
under the Nazi heel. America was certainly not prepared for war.
America had
drastically downg raded most of its military forces after W.W.I and
throughout the depression, so that at the outbreak of WW2, army units
were
training with broomsticks because they didn't have guns, and cars with
"tank" painted on the doors because they didn't have real tanks. ND a
huge
chunk of our navy had just been sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor .



Britain had already gone bankrupt, saved only by the donation of $600
million in gold bullion in the Bank of England, that was actually the
property of Belgium , given by Belgium to England to carry on the war
when
Belgium was overrun by Hitler (a little known fact).



Actually, Belgium surrendered on one day, because it was unable to
oppose
the German invasion, and the Germans bombed Brussels into rubble the
next
day jus t to prove they could. Britain had already been holding out
for two
years in the face of staggering losses and the near decimation of its
air
force in the Battle of Britain, and was saved from being overrun by
Germany
only because Hitler made the mistake of thinking the Brits were a
relatively
minor threat that could be dealt with later, and first turning his
attention
to Russia, at a time when England was on the verge of collapse, in the
late
summer of 1940.



Ironically, Russia saved America 's butt by putting up a desperate
fight for
two years, until the US got geared up to begin hammering away at
Germany .



Russia lost something like 24 million people in the sieges of
Stalingrad and
Moscow alone... 90% of them from cold and starvation, mostly civili
ans, but
also more than a 1,000,000 soldiers.



Had Russia surrendered, Hitler would have been able to focus his entire
war
effort against the Brits, then America . And the Nazis could possibly
have
won the war.



All of this is to illustrate that turning points in history are often
dicey
things. And now, we find ourselves at another one of those key moments
in
history ! There is a very dangerous minority in Islam that either has,
or
wants and may soon have, the ability to deliver small nuclear,
biological,
or chemical weapons, almost anywhere in the world. The Jihadis, the
militant
Muslims, are basically Nazis in Kaffiyahs. They believe that Islam, a
radically conservative form of Wahhabi Islam, should own and control
the
Middle East first, then Europe , then the world. And that all who do
not bow
to their will of thinking should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated.
They
want to finish the Holocaust, destroy Israel , and purge the world of
Jews.
This is their mantra.



There is also a civil war raging in the Middle East -- for the most
part
not a hot war, but a war of ideas. Islam is having its Inquisition and
its
Reformation, but it is not known yet which will win -- the Inquisitors,
or
the Reformationists.



If the Inquisition wins, then the Wahhabis, the Jihadis, will control
the
Middle East, the OPEC oil, and the US , European, and Asian economies.



The techno-industrial eco nomies will be at the mercy of OPEC -- not
an
OPEC dominated by the educated, rational Saudis of today, but an OPEC
dominated by the Jihadis. You want gas in your car? You want heating
oil
next winter? You want the dollar to be worth anything? You better hope
the
Jihad, the Muslim Inquisition, loses, and the Islamic Reformation wins.




If the Reformation movement wins, that is, the moderate Muslims who
believe
that Islam can respect and tolerate other religions, and live in peace
with
the rest of the world, and move out of the 10th century into the 21st,
then
the troubles in the Middle East will eventually fade away, and a
moderate
and prosperous Middle East will emerge.



(The rational mind of today says this).



We have to help the Reformation win, and to do that we have to fight
the
Inquisition, i.e. the Wahhabi movement, the Jihad, Al Qaeda and the
Islamic
terrorist movements.



We have to do it somewhere. And we can't do it everywhere at once. We
have
created a focal point for the battle at a time and place of our
choosing........in Iraq . Not in New York , not in London , or Paris or
Berlin , but in Iraq , where we are doing two important things:



(1) We deposed Saddam Hussein. Whether Saddam Hussein was directly
involved
in 9/11 or not, it is undisputed that Saddam has been actively
supporting
the terrorist movement for decades. Saddam is a terrorist. Sad dam is,
or
was, a weapon of mass destruction, who is responsible for the deaths
of
probably more than a million Iraqis and two million Iranians.



(2) We created a battle, a confrontation, a flash point, with Islamic
terrorism in Iraq . We have focused the battle. We are killing bad
people,
and the ones we get there we won't have to get here. We also have a
good
shot at creating a democratic, peaceful Iraq , which will be a
catalyst for
democratic change in the rest of the Middle East, and an outpost for a
stabilizing American military presence in the Middle East for as long
as it
is needed.



World War II, the war with the German and Japanese Nazis, really began
with
a "whimper" in 1928. It did not begin with Pearl Harbor . It &nb
sp;began
with the Japanese invasion of China . It was a war for fourteen years
before
America joined it. It officially ended in 1945 -- a 17 year war-- and
was
followed by another decade of US occupation in Germany and Japan to get
those countries reconstructed and running on their own again .. a 27
year
war.



World War II cost the United States an amount equal to approximately a
full
year's GDP -- adjusted for inflation, equal to about $12 trillion
dollars.



W.W.II cost America more than 400,000 killed in action, and nearly
100,000
still missing in action.



The Iraq war has, so far, cost the US about $160 billion, which is
roughly
what 9 /11 cost New York . It has also cost about 3,000 American lives,
which is roughly the 3,000 lives that the Jihad snuffed on 9/11.



But the cost of not fighting and winning WWII would have been
unimaginably
greater -- a world dominated by German and Japanese Nazism.



This is not 60 minutes TV shows, and 2 hour movies in which everything
comes out okay. The real world is not like that. It is messy,
uncertain,
and sometimes bloody and ugly. Always has been, and probably always
will be.




The bottom line is that we will have to deal with Islamic terrorism
until we
defeat it, whenever that is. It will not go away if we ignore it.



If the US can create a reasonably democratic and stable Iraq , then we
have
an " England " in the Middle East, a platform, from which we can work
to
help modernize and moderate the Middle East . The history of the world
is
the clash between the forces of relative civility and civilization,
and the
barbarians clamoring at the gates. The Iraq war is merely another
battle in
this ancient and never ending war. And now, for the first time ever,
the
barbarians are about to get nuclear weapons.



Unless somebody prevents them.



We have four options:
1. We can defeat the Jihad now, before it gets nuclearweapons.



2. We can fight the Jihad later, after it gets nuclear weapons
(which may be as early as next year, if Iran's progress on nuclear
weapons
is what Iran claims it is)



3. We can surrender to the Jihad and accept its dominance in the
Middle
East, now, in Europe in the next few years or decades, and ultimately
in
America .



4. Or, we can stand down now, and pick up the fight later when the
Jihad is
more widespread and better armed, perhaps after the Jihad has dominated
France and Germany and maybe most of the rest of Europe . It will, of
course, be more dangerous, more expensive, and much bloodier.



If you oppose this war, I hope you like the idea that your children,
or
grandchildren, may live in an Islamic America under the Mullahs and
the
Sharia (Islamic law), an America that resembles Iran today.



The history of the world is the history of civilizational clashes,
cultural
clashes. All wars are about ideas, ideas about what society and
civilization should be like, and the mostdetermined always win.



Those who are willing to be the most ruthless always win. The pacifists
always lose, because the anti-pacifists kill them.



Remember, perspective is every thi ng, and America 's schools teach too
little history for perspective to be clear, especially in the young
American
mind.



The Cold war lasted from about 1947 at least until the Berlin Wall
came
down in 1989. Forty-two years. Europe spent the first half of the 19th
century fighting Napoleon, and from 1870 to 1945 fighting Germany



World War II began in 1928, lasted 17 years, plus a ten year
occupation, and
the US still has troops in Germany and Japan. World War II resulted in
the
death of more than 50 million people, maybe more than 100 million
people,
depending on which estimates you accept.



The US has taken more than 3,000 ki lled in action in Iraq .



The US took more than 4,000 killed in action on ONE morning of June 6,
1944,
the first day of the Normandy Invasion to rid Europe of Nazi
Imperialism.



In W.W.II the US averaged 2,000 KIA a week -- for four years. Most of
the
individual battles of WWII cost more Americans than the entire Iraq war
has
done so far.



But the stakes are at least as high ... A world dominated by
representative
governments with civil rights, human rights, and personal freedoms ..
or a
world dominated by a radical Islamic Wahhabi movement, by the Jihad,
under
the Mullahs and the Sharia (Islamic law).




Please send this to anyone who did not experience WW-II......and,
ALSO,
consider sending to those who did!

Just thought this might be interesting to DU as to what we are up against in trying to stop a war with Iran.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. this lunatic sure did learn his lessons from the PNAC asylum...
the good news is, there R less 'n less of 'em these days around.

welcome to DU! :hi:
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debunkthelies Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks
:hide: I'm kinda new to this but I'm learning:woohoo:
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