Florida Recession?

[glowing]

Just heard on the news that Charlie Crist says if Floridians don't start spending then Florida is going to be in a Recession. How the hell do we spend, when we can barely live Charlie? Why don't you insist on a raise for everyone... $6.67 is barely a wage.

Part of the problem, as well, is lack of tourists. With the country on a squeeze, Disney is not an option for most people right now. Isn't it funny in 2005 when they had a surplus of funds and couldn't figure out what to do with the money. How the times have changed with 35% of homes sitting empty and Disney looking like a ghost town. Too, bad the city councils re-zoned their family style beaches to make way for the mega-plex condos that are sitting like open lots waiting for rich people to buy into their million dollar properties.

[rodeodance]

1. i have not followed FL---but now surprized at the rezoning. sad

[Chipper Chat]

2. Here's some Florida east coast reality for ya:

Rent for the same 2B apt one block from the beach (I used to live there)

1995 - $450
2002 - $600
2005 - $950

Oct 2008 - has been sitting empty for 4 months - rent was just reduced to $700.

[MADem]

7. You're living a year in the future?

Oct 2008 - has been sitting empty for 4 months - rent was just reduced to $700.

Send me the winning lotto numbers for SEP 08!!!

I take your larger point, though....

[Chipper Chat]

20. OMG MADem - too many meds here!

Good catch - but too late to revise.
Just chalk it up to a "senior moment."

[MADem]

21. Darn, I was hoping for those LOTTO numbers!!! I even woulda split the take with ya!!

:hi:

[Chipper Chat]

29. Welllllllllllll, since you asked:

http://www.flalottery.com/inet/downloadsMain.do
Happy calculating.

[Malikshah]

36. Crist, you closeted little twit. Maybe you can stop trying to

use Katherine Harris as a beard long enough to get over your mancrush on Jebbie to realize he stuck you with a sinking ship.

Cutting the intangibles tax before he left office
Gave tax cuts in massive amounts to businesses and corporations

Promoted doubling the homestead exemption--which then takes money from social services.

Does not govern and/or regulate the banana republic that is both state and local governments.

Of course Jeb and Crist have been able to do this w/ no fear of recrimination.

The "We *heart* Batista Ex-Pat community" in South Florida had a strangle hold on local politics for way to long--corrupt as the day is long at the city and county level. Now we have wunderkind Rubio up in Tallahassee causing all sorts of woe for the average Floridian.

We have the Tom Feeneys, Tom Foleys (ex), Clay Shaws (Ex) and their ilk who have helped wash our futures down the toilet.

Where's the Democratic Leadership? There isn't any. They have been in bed with the Republicans so long, they forgot to ask them to leave the money on the table.

They are systematically defunding education, health care, and infrastructure.

I know it's not wonderful elsewhere, but damn! All that and the legislation that hunts down to kill any semblance of GLBT life down here just makes the state more unlivable every day.

Am trying to get myself in a position where I can secure employment elsewhere and then start the arduous journey of tying up loose ends and getting the house ready for market (yeah, right)

At this point-- it's a two to three year wait until the market comes back to its senses. (This isn't for profit or flipping-- this is to make sure we're not upside down)

BTW-- all this moaning about property taxes-- look into part of the population who is moaning. If it's the snowbirds/second home folks-- screw them. There are those of us who are lucky enough to have one roof over our heads for now and who live here w/i our means by the skin of our teeth.
Their whining only serves to shine a light on their complete inability to look at the humanity beyond their own self.

[Sneaky Sailor]

37. So what if hes a closet case

What does that have to do with the argument?

[Malikshah]

40. Because as a gay man, I am offended by a politician who leads a

state in which they single out the GLBT community in terms of limiting their rights.

It means all the difference in the world.


As a Gay Floridian, I take tremendous offense at his cowardice.

[Sneaky Sailor]

46. His private life is none of your business IMHO

If he is indeed gay (which I am relatively sure he is), he has the right to repress it or express it however he wants. Once again, that is just my opinion. The governor has relatively little power in Florida, more that he used to, but like most southern states, the Gov is just one of many.

[glowing]

49. Here's another clue. I don't care. Who you choose to sleep with

does not effect the way you do your job. What we ought to be doing is working at the local level and changing all the right to work b.s... which means the employee has no rights. Work for all, and I mean all, workers rights... Its the local ass hats that stir the turds and make these stupid fucking ordinances... like that one woman over in Hillsborough county trying to ban library books.

[Malikshah]

His private life as a public figure is sure as hell my business.

It is called hypocrisy. It is called cowardice.

And it is everyone's business when they are personally affected by his actions and inaction.

Jeb had little power?? Really?

Please.

[Sneaky Sailor]

53. Please indeed

Look at FL and look at any state in the North and compare how powerful the governor is. FL had one of the most Reconstructionist Govts in the Nation. Jeb did alot to make the office more powerful but FL still has a long wat to go to re assemble the executive branch. All the Gov is FL is is Head Cat-Herder.

[Malikshah]

54. Please. And where is Cristy herding the cats?

He's continued the intangibles cuts direction

He's vetoed tuition hikes direction

He's continued to protect corporate interests direction

He's continued to have the GLBT as third class citizens direction

Crist is a coward to himself and is doing the state a great disservice

It is called leadership-- stand up for what is humane and kick some butt.

But no-- he's a coward.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

71. Thank you for your concern. -nt

[ixion]

3. yeah, it's pretty bad.. 20K+ jobs lost in Sarasota alone, and wages are way down

while the cost of living is way up.

Why is no one spending, Gov. Crist? Well, perhaps it's because they're broke.

[wuushew]

4. What percentage of Florida tourism is foreign?

With the Euro at an all time high wouldn't certain American locations see more business?

[glowing]

10. I don't think anymore than usual... For people from England, there's

a lot of red tape to get through... Most of the people who come are older. Young people over there are just as strapped for cash as we are. With terrorist alerts and people's general pissed off attitude with us, I don't see an increase here at the beach.

[Uncle Joe]

15. I'm wondering if

Bush's poor standing around the world has a negative or dampening impact on foreign tourism, also hasn't Disney opened a park in France that could siphon potential tourists from Europe?

[tsuki]

33. Foreign tourism is down.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2005-10-03-intl-tourism-usat_x.htm

[Toots]

38. America is not popular

The world knows that The Bush* Administration has stirred up resentment for America throughout the world and new attacks are only a matter of time. Also our over reaction to 9-11 by restricting travel and search procedures have made visiting America a very unpleasant experience. Not to even mention the Crime factor. Word has gotten out that America is rife with Crime and Guns and the combination is not healthy, besides there are better places in the world to visit for relaxation and peace of mind..

[remember2000forever]

5. Florida Recession

Florida (at least Palm Beach County) is dying. Our taxes and homeowners insurance are strangling us all. People want to move but can't. We are frozen in our homes because of the Housing surplus and crisis. Grocery store prices and gas are out of control. Why can Ocala have a discount Publix and cheaper gas, when Palm Beach County cannot? The county needs to realize that we all don't live on "The Islands" and we all are not even close to rich. Charlie Christ talked a good talk when he was elected but it seems even he can't get taxes reduced. Florida hiked up services (and Pork) during the "Boom" and no one seems to know how to give the $ back to the people during this, YES, Recession.

A Realtor

[ellenfl]

18. i'm just happy to have a job.

i am a real estate paralegal for probate/estate planning/real estate attorneys in palm beach county. last year, no one in our office got raises because of business being slow . . . but at least we did not lose our jobs! we are hanging in waiting for the real estate to turn around which it will not do if the insurance and tax issues are not corrected. i'm hearing that turnaround will take at least another year.

i have always said that florida's thinking is that it is giving residents the good life, so don't expect to get paid well. even with a college degree, i am still not making 50 grand a year. thankfully, i purchased my condo years ago and taxes have been capped since then or i could not afford to live here.

we need to get the repugs out of our state legislature. that's almost as important to average floridians as taking the presidency in 2008. thank god for term-limiting jeb bush!

ellen fl

p.s. welcome to du! i tried to pm you but you are not set up yet. i work in tequesta. are you in the north or south? which real estate company?

[remember2000forever]

19. To ellen fl

I live in Jupiter. I hesitate to mention my Realty because the "whisper" is that my company will be closing it's doors just before Christmas. Yes, you are very lucky to have your job.
Yes Folks, it IS that bad down here.

[Cha]

23. Welcome to DU, remember2000forever!~

Good Luck to you in your future endeavors.. You bet we'll remember 2000 FOREVER!

Your name is making me tear up because I just got a wave of sadness remembering how the coup all unfolded and how far down in hell our country has sunk since them. :(

[remember2000forever]

30. Thanks zidzi

I'm new to all of this but I've signed on of late, (to Al Gore petitions and joined the DU,) and I hope this is for the best for our country.

It's just my humble opinions.

I was in the streets in 2000 because I am from Palm Beach County Fla. YES! We, in Florida, despite the disparaging remarks, knew how to vote, and we also knew that if they had "counted" our votes we wouldn't be in this abysmal situation that we find ourselves in now. "They" knew our Palm Beach constituents were 100% Democratic and for sure didn't want to count our votes. SHAME!

Florida was once a great State and we enjoyed our freedoms under Chiles and Graham but since then we instead find ourselves increasingly in "Bush Land" and suffering the consequences.

The only thing that matters is a fair and just voting arena. Without that everything is moot, even our wonderful opinions and freedom of expression.

If the Democratic process is rigged, again in 2008, God Help Us All.

[Cha]

47. It's all our "humble opinions"..

I'm glad you found DU..it has great political writers who have good instincts, activism, and it's very very cathartic which all of us need in time of fascist takeover.

Thank you so much for taking to the Palm Beach Streets in 2000..we know you knew how to vote..I think theresa lepore was an infiltrator or just very stupid graphic designer.

I know that Florida was once a great State..I have some family down there and used to live Gainseville back in the day..here's to it being a great State again in our lifetime with people like you and a whole of other Floridians we've met on DU! And people like Howard Dean who is working very hard in all 50 States on getting us our Democratic process back again!

[AnneD]

28. This is one of the reasons Fla will continue ....

to have a Nursing shortage. They seem to think you can pay folks in sunshine. Also the fact that the health care is in the hands of a few corps and they collude to keep salary low. They think they can work you like dogs for nothing. I can't tell you the really negative things I hear from Fla. Nurses. The absolute last place I want to work sunshine or not.

[glowing]

58. They really don't treat the nurses well at all... And I don't think they

are allowed to unionize down here... with the right to work thing? I may be wrong.

[AnneD]

69. They can organize...

you can organize in a right to work state, it's just harder. That is a lie that the CEO's perpetuate to keep Nurse's from organizing.

[glowing]

56. I'm in the Tampa Bay area (I'm buying a forclosure in Palm Harbor)

I've noticed a lot of people coming from the southern part of Florida and moving up here... Its one area that didn't have a ton of damage... we had some from Francis and Jean... but mostly cosmetic. I think that's why my Citizens ins. price tag is a bit lower.

Its really important for real estate people to work with city councils and local zoning boards. You understand what is happening, and if you aren't trying to Donald Trump yourself and are looking out for the long haul in a career, you need to be pro-active with zoning and building. Lets face it, young couples starting out do not have enough saved up for the $350,000.00 dollar mini-mansion. A smaller starter home is important. We need to make sure that for every millionair estate we create, we have at least 10 homes that are affordable and in all areas... The rich aren't the only one's who would like to use the beach.

Also, we need to put the squeeze on builders to use green methods...Discounts the greener they are.

[watercolors]

6. Not to mention our terrible insaurance rates

They are really squeezing the middle class families, my daughter and son's doubled , and it means finding almost and increase of over $200 a month. That puts a big crimp in extra spending. WE dropped ours, own our home and will just have to chance it. Crist dropped the ball on insurance and taxes, has left us hanging!

[Warpy]

8. After my dad died and I was getting ready to leave, I decided

to buzz out to the beach to dip my toe into the relatively cold, February Atlantic, just for old time's sake.

I couldn't get near it! I couldn't even see it! There was a fucking unbroken wall of massive high rise condominiums the full length of it with no access to anyplace but the goddamned condo parking areas. There was no longer a public path to the beach, no longer a public pier, no longer the very nice public nature walk, nothing but those fucking yuppie warrens!

I have never been so disgusted by anything in my life. Even the overbuilding of pleasure palaces on Cape Cod didn't turn my stomach the way those awful places did.

The best thing that could happen to that part of Florida is a strong hurricane, something that would blast those dumps to rubble.

Neglect will take too long.

[Cetacea]

9. Those two Nuke Plants that FPL have planned should help

:eyes:

[glowing]

12. Help with what? Causing cancer and deformity in small children?

They just dumped the S-CHIP... Who's going to pay the baby's bills? Why don't we pretend we have a brain and use the SunShine state to create SunShine Energy...

[Cha]

24. Arti was being..

:sarcasm:

[glowing]

42. good. Using farmers land that would grow nourishing food for

Nuc plants isn't my idea of good planning.

[Cetacea]

65. Thank you, zidzi. I forgot the "sarcasm" thingie.

I am afraid that Nuke plants are going to come back strongly under the guise of being good for global warming. This is in fact the tactic Florida Power and Light is using in their announcements.

[Sneaky Sailor]

35. Ummmm yeah,

The sunshine state would not be the best for Solar....

There is a lot more cloudy days that sunny ones.

Wind would be a hell of alot better IMHO

[glowing]

43. It does not have to be a sunny day for solar power to work... Its a myth

Certainly the energy capture is optimum on full sun days, but is not necessary... It the light.. the sun still gets through, otherwise it would look like night. (Think do plants die if we have a cloudy week, no)... But you are correct, we can utilize both methods... Would also be interesting to develop wave energy.... Using the ocean to capture the wave energy. We def. have enough ocean around us.

What Charlie needs to do is make this a Green state... Build green, do green, make this a hippy-dippy state that functions well. (be careful with too much eco-tourism. We could do this. I wonder if we all wrote in and said Charlie... lets make this state as green and progressive with technology, we'd be like a silicon valley.. Its the future and if these dinosaurs don't realize it, they will lose out on a lot.

[Sneaky Sailor]

45. An old friend of mine works in his office

And was telling me about some of the things he has voiced in the quiet of his office. Interesting views on what he feels about proposals such as yours. I think personally that he would be receptive. Now the question would be if the Legislature would go along.

[glowing]

48. I've gotten that feeling in the way that he talks... I think he'd like to

build some industry that isn't harmful to us and isn't based on smiling pretty or picking oranges.

Maybe, I'll write him everyday... Perhaps, some of those letters will get to him? Who knows.

[Sneaky Sailor]

51. I would like to see us grow oranges

And sugar cane again.

Cane Ethanol is more promising than corn from what I have heard, that could be the first step to us getting back on track.

[glowing]

57. Yes because its good, no because it means lots of illegal immigrants

packe into substandard trailers.

[ellenfl]

61. exactly why we need to REPLACE charlie's legislature.

i don't think florida dems (including me) have paid enough attention to our state gummint in the recent past. lord knows we have had some great lawmakers . . . eg chiles, graham, pepper . . . and some awful . . . bush, martinez, bush, ros-lehtinen, bush, putnam, bush, etc.

the corrupt are beginning to fall in wpb, now maybe we can do something on the county and state level.

ellen fl

[Cetacea]

64. The legislature sucks eggs. And Crist should reverse Jeb's

atrocities, like relaxing the mandatory auto emission tests each year.

[Sneaky Sailor]

70. There are many things I would call that measure

I am not quite sure it rises to the level of "atrocity"

[kdmorris]

11. Spend??? He wants us to spend???

Then fucking DO something about the $5000 a year I pay in fucking home owners insurance. Not to mention... my $400 electric bill, the $5 gallon of milk and the $3.00 a gallon gasoline.

I find it hard to live sometimes and I'm middle class. I cannot even fathom how a person making half of what I make is even able to survive around here. It's not possible without sharing a home with your parents/friends/whoever the hell you can find in the same boat.

[colbertforpresident]

14. Jeb

I bought an investment property in Florida in Sept. 2005 and finally rented it this week. Of course I had to drop my asking price all the while my taxes and insurance have gone up along with the condo fees. Brother Jeb sure screwed thing up for Joe Average citizen. It's time for everyone to call and pressure your congresscritters and senators to stop looking out for / selling out to big business and start taking care of their constituants!

[glowing]

16. No kidding! I think its time to do away with private homeowners

insurance and create a Homeowner fund that we all contribute to.. If we need it, the money's there. If we don't it just acrues in a safe C.D. (I don't care if it sounds Socialistic or not) Right now he's after AllState and their record breaking profits. Time to get rid of them once and for all. I hope the property insurance goes into effect...$50,000.00 would help me out...$25,000.00 is just not saving our homes. 2008 should see a little bit of a break on the school end with school choice gone. Staying in your neighborhood will save a bit on the billions of dollars to bus children around in the county. In a lot of places in Florida, diversity in the schools is not a problem.

[remember2000forever]

17. Florida Homeowners Insurance and Taxes

Like a previous "Poster" mentioned. A lot of people living in Flor-i-dahhh are going "Bare". They are dropping their windstorm coverage. But those are the lucky ones with no Mortgages.

When I propose a sale of a house to customers I have to tell them to multiply the selling price by 2%. That will be what their yearly taxes aprox. will be. Now, IF the customer still wants to go through with the sale I have to tell them to "Go Shopping" for Homeowners Insurance. Hopefully the home will have "engineered" storm shutters, be close to a fire station, and the zip code for the home didn't have a lot of area claims during our last active hurricanes of 2005. Hopefully the prospective buyers will not have big dogs nor filed a claim previously within the last 5 years. Then, perhaps, they will get by for under $3000.00 a year with Citizens Insurance, an Insurer of last resort for Flor-idiots.

I know it sounds like I don't love my State. I do. But it's just like everyone says:
People can't afford to live here.

AND, I'm supposed to tell my clients "It's a Buyer's Market" with a straight face.

A Realtor

[glowing]

32. My Citizens ins. is $1299.00 for this year.. I actually got a lot of diff.

quotes for citizens... all the way up to $1700.00. I got one offer for $1800.00 from a private insurer. Needless to say, I took Citizens. If most of us are using Citizens, we might as well make it a general homeowner's fund and get rid of the penalties for using it. It was designed to be high and as a last resort.

Somethings got to give... but I told people, when you run on a platform to fix property tax and insurance rates, and you are taking campaign money from the insurance industry and you are facing down country/ city govt's who use the property tax for schools and police and other workers, its hard to get anything done.

I say we tell Charlie to throw them out. Let's do it differently, and Fuck Jeb and his comments about it. He's the one that got us into this situation in the first place--ass hat.

[kineneb]

67. gee, I feel lucky over here in rural CA

homeowners ins. is about $500/yr, property tax $1200/yr, electricity generally under $100/mo

sorry you folks have such a messed-up state gov.

[glowing]

68. Yes, but the general prices of the homes aren't as high as CA yet..

Don't get me wrong, there are the million dollar complexes, but the avg. home price is starting to get to a place where it should have been. It will take another year and people realizing what lack of school choice looks like. Hopefully in this next year, he'll grow a pair and get things done.

[Deja Q]

13. If Crist spends most of his time going out for business ventures to China and India,

Maybe he can answer his own question.

[lpbk2713]

22. I'm spending.

Now take my home insurance premiums, please. And my property taxes, please. And my utility bill, please.

[1932]

25. Just saw this week that Americans actually have LESS discretionary spending than 20 years ago

more money is going to the neccessitites (housing, food, health care, insurance) and less is going to consumer goods, leisure activities, etc. (and we have less free time to spend our money). And the neccessities are so expensive, that we're saving less too.

If our politicians want us to spend more, then give us cheap healthcare, do something about this debt culture that is driving up housing and education costs beyond the point of rationality, and let's try to go back to a 40 hour work week rather than the 50 hours that a lot of people work (and let's figure a way to spend less time in ours cars getting to and from work).

[Deja Q]

27. OMG, common sense! Jobs and good pay for hard and good work done for it.

What a scary thought...

Telecommuting is an option to cut down on rush hour and driving...

There are so many options and we all have our parts to play.

The future can work.

[lovuian]

26. Insurance people won't give out homeowners insurance

cause the Insurance companies know More Hurricanes More bad weather and Florida is going under water

its hard to invest in 30 years from now when the Artic still keeps melting
Coastlines and islands are in jeopardy

Insurance companies only bet on the sure thing

[friendly_iconoclast]

31. The Florida economy depends on cheap oil and paying people in sunshine

I was a kid in PB County in the Seventies and well remember what the economy was like
after the first round of oil price hikes. The hurricanes just make it worse. Most people prior to 2004 had no memory of what a bad hurricane does. Many didn't even remember Andrew in '92. Charlie is a fool if he thinks people can spend their way out of a recession.

[Sneaky Sailor]

34. I am of the opinion that

One of the worst problems in Florida is a few key voting blocs voting selfishly in their own interest because the honestly dont care about the state as a whole.

This has led to our horrid budget and economic issues and the housing crisis as well. Both Democratic and Republican politicians have been complicit. Republicans more so because they have been in power for 10 years.

[glowing]

39. Well, we all knew it would happen sooner or later... Hopefully, Crist

can get over the Patriotic = shopping mantra and really do something. I'm afraid right now he's looking at a 1 term reign... Nobody is particualarly happy with him.. He's just not doing anything that immediately needs to be done.

[Sneaky Sailor]

41. I get the impression he has been trying in some areas

but it is like banging your head against a wall trying to Govern this effin state.

[Ilsa]

44. The help wanted signs are for cheap, service-related labor, Charlie. nt

[lpbk2713]

50. ... and temp jobs with no benefits.

The corporatists love this sort of thing.

[Sneaky Sailor]

52. Herding Cats

That is what governing Florida is like.

[flashl]

55. When Florida unchain itself from Jeb Bush's billion $$$ giveaways in privitalization

it may regain its footings.

[glowing]

59. He really did give away a lot... At the same time.. if you were a

corporation, would you want to build up in "Hurrican State"... You could lose a lot.

[flashl]

62. St. Joe did. Remember?

[Lorien]

60. I work for Disney. The past three years have been some of our best

at the theme parks (falling value of the dollar), but upper management is doing what it always does; looking for ways to slash operating costs so that shareholders benefit and workers suffer. Last year they sent my job overseas, but gave it back to me in eight months when that experiment failed. Crist needs to talk to CEOs and employers, not "consumers".

[glowing]

63. Its all relative... After 2001, everything in the tourism and hospitality

business looks better...At the same time, though, the franchised names cost more to maintain and add more to the list every year, the price of the room barely budges, yet the taxes and insurance go up. Its not easy to make tons of money. Disney is lucky to keep a lot of their standardizing in house. They are big enough that their resorts are a draw to the traveler.

[spinbaby]

66. Disney is notorious for underpaying

I have relatives near Disneyland. They tell me that the Disney execs think that people should be so stricken by the "magic" that they'll take a minimum wage job in an area where even the Home Depot pays over $10.00 an hour.