Cheney throws Libby Over. Will Libby take it? What do you think?

[autorank]

Dick Cheney was frustrated that his man Scooter Libby might take the fall. The notes presented in Cheney’s own hand said “"not going to protect one staffer and sacrifice the guy that was asked to stick his head in the meat grinder because of incompetence of others": Well, I guess Dick will shove Scooters head in that grinder. He’s not showing up. He’s throwing Libby over, dumping his protégé.

What will Libby do?

How much time is too much?

Libby is going down and he may not like it.

Will this “aspen” turn on those who cultivated his career?

This is high drama among political low lifes. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Here’s a commentary on the loss of Cheney as a witness.

The trial will end with a whimper, not a bang. The jurors will not hear the defendant defend his statements to the

FBI and the grand jury that investigated the leak that outed Valerie Wilson as a CIA officer. They will not hear him claim that he honestly misremembered facts or that his recollections (as opposed to those of all the prosecution witnesses) are accurate. They will not hear Libby maintain that he was the victim of a--take-your-pick--CIA plot, State Department plot, White House plot or NBC News plot (as Wells has variously suggested throughout the trial). They will not hear Cheney vouch for the integrity of the man whom he recently called "one of the most honest men I know."

[opihimoimoi]

1. They gonna cover Libby in a moonless midnight deal,,,,,he won't squeal.

Gonna stonewall all the way


I HOPE NOT......

[autorank]

5. Well, lets think about it. How could Fitz screw him?

I don't know the maximum for this crime. Maybe they throw the book at him and then lean hard with additional charges arising out of this trial. Ooops, more lawyers, more court time.

Fitz would have to say the new charges came out of the trial. Maybe treason, or threaten him with
that. Damn, I'd talk with that threat.

??? What do you think.

[Missy Vixen]

9. Don't all charges add up to 30 years?

I seem to remember reading that somewhere ;-).

In the meantime, I have to believe that my favorite guy went easy on several of the people that took the stand; he's still holding something close to the vest, and I'm wondering how long it will take for the rest of us to find out.

Happy Valentine's Day, autorank! :hug:
Julie

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. Now we get to see if Libby is made out of the same stuff that Susan McDougal

was made of.

[MADem]

2. If Scooter walks, no biggie. If Scooter gets a LOOOOOONG sentence, and isn't allowed out on appeal,

then he might chat if he doesn't get a pardon toute suite.

BushCo MUSTA promised him a pardon in December 08. Unless they bought off the jury to ensure him an acquittal or a hung jury, that is...and that's unlikely.

[autorank]

6. The pardon has to wait until * is finished. Otherwise he'd be hauled

out of the WH by his heels at this point.

So, you're right. Straight to Marion, Gotti's cell;)

[MADem]

11. Those Christmas pardons at the end of the term...I'm sure Alberto Gonzalez is already working on 'em

Harriet Miers probably typed up a boatload of them before she left for greener pastures....

[texpatriot2004]

3. Hey AutoRank, let me be the first to say that I think Libby has had

a rude awakening. I think I. Liar Libby has been clear from the beginning that he would not take the fall for KKKarl. I think Scooter must be shocked that his former boss has turned on him, uh, no actually tied the weights to his feet and thrown him from the plank while waving as he sinks to the bottom. I don't think this was how Libby saw the whole thing going down eh. I am not convinced that Libby is going to go along. I think he may, at the last minute, try the "every rat for himself" approach.

What do you think?

[texpatriot2004]

4. PS unlike Abramoff and some of the others, I Liar Libby doesn't

strike me as the kind of person who can handle prison.

[Cleita]

7. He won't go to one of those prisons that the proletariat go to.

He'll go to one of the Club Feds that the Watergate guys went to. You know private rooms...tennis courts...decent food.

[rodeodance]

12. several appeals long process, by then Bush can pardon

[autorank]

14. Good news...

...they stopped that I believe, just for cases like this. They like to scare 'em with the "big house."

Can you imagine? These guys thought they ruled the world and now they're just in the way, need to be removed at some difficulty but it's their time to take some real heat. What a shame;)

[autorank]

8. If I were libby, I'd be totally pissed off, I mean totally.

He's now alone, in his mind, and the most he can have is a promise of a pardon, implied not explicit. And Libby is intelligent so he knows how these liars really work. Libby used to be a hippie liberal in college...LOL...just like Judith Miller who worked at Pacifica.

Now it's jail time, hard time. I think they put them in single cells at federal faiclities. Bummer, of sorts, but then he's in the "yard" with the population. Wow.

Fitz can scare him and I think he'll roll over...but then he has the WH crew to deal with.

No win, a toss up;)

:hi:

[texpatriot2004]

37. So true eh. I'll call it...tails. nm

[mykpart]

16. I seem to recall that Nixon tried to get John Dean to

take the fall for him, and look how that turned out!

[autorank]

18. Bingo, this guy is Dean...right.

Damn, that's good. Somebody told me that a long time ago and you just reminded me. I think you're
on target.

:hi:

[texpatriot2004]

38. And didn't Dean bring the other house down? nm

[Crabby Appleton]

10. I don't think scooter will say anything more than he has

might get a pardon after the '08 election.

[autorank]

17. Well, that's a good point...but what about his ego, which seems rather large.

I'm not sure that Libby really believes any of the garbage the neocons put out. I'd bet he's just a happy camper on the gravy train that pays the most, appreciates his weasel ways the most, and is on top. Could be wrong but if he was told he'd be taken care of and now he gets dumped, he may be vulnerable to some the psy ops that prosecutors do. Plus I think the timing of this has been stage managed to a degree. Now the "sane" version of the PTB has to get busy. It will be interesting.

[badgerpup]

33. The pardon scenario will only play out if Bush is still in office...

...somehow, I just don't see him finishing out the term.
Call it a gut feeling? Intuition? Hunch? Wishful thinking?
:shrug:
Just the balance is tipped waaaay too far to recover and can only go one way now.
Hope it happens SOON...

[SoCalDem]

13. Libby will "take" it.. After the "fall", he will be portrayed as

the victim..and Bush will pardon him.

For keeping the secrets, he has been well compensated, I'm sure.

He will remain out of jail while the appeal goes on, and by the time anything is "decided" finally, the pardon will be a done deal..


sound and fury, signifying nothing

[autorank]

15. Hey, that's no way to get a Valentine;)

Maybe, maybe not. Have you ever been abandoned by everybody you thought was going to be by your side or even close to that...it's not pleasant and Libby has been abandoned by every single one of the people who were on his side. His career is now a disgrace, he has nothing to show for all that ass kissing and obsequious behavior. You think he might be a little pissed off? He's a criminal and he's up against someone who turns much tougher criminals...so, I'll bet you a Valentine next year (we'll both forget) that something comes of this.

[bananarepublican]

21. They may have promised him that Geoff Gannon will be his cell mate? n/t

[autorank]

22. Well, that's sure an inducement.

You get your punishment and physical training all rolled up into one bundle. That's exceptionally brilliant;)

[Edweird]

20. I believe you got it.

Libby will be one of many many pardons handed out.

[librechik]

19. he's gonna take it. He isn't going to testify. It's over.

it'll go to the jury tomorrow or thursday.Next week is a week long President's holiday in DC.

there it sits

[Peace Patriot]

23. There is much more at stake here for Libby than a jail term.

1. He probably knows enough to put the entire Bush Junta behind bars if not before a firing squad. So if he turns on them, while they are still in power--or even long afterward--his life would be in jeopardy.

2. I actually think that he is a true believer. I think he thinks that his taking the fall is cover for whatever they've got cooked up on Iran (we ain't seen nothin yet). I got this from his "aspens" letter. He told Judith Miller to "come back to life--and work" to cover "biological threats" and Iran nukes. The "aspens" turning together because "their roots are connected, " meant that everybody is still agreed on the "grand plan," his taking the fall is part of it, and she can therefore come out of jail and testify against him.

And speaking of the jeopardy to Libby "long afterward"--someone at Firedoglake commented today that, as long as Fitzgerald is Special Prosecutor, they CANNOT give Libby a pardon, cuz the moment they pardon Libby, Fitz hauls him back before the Grand Jury and he is compelled to tell the truth. He cannot refuse (no 5th amendment--his criminal liability is not at issue). And Fitz doesn't look to me to be anywhere near finished with this investigation and with prosecutions. He has enough, from what we've heard in the trial, to indict a number of people, including Cheney, and he certainly has a conspiracy--and that's just from what is visible. God knows what Fitz has that we don't know about. My guess is a lot. He hinted at a Cheney-led conspiracy in early docs on Libby, and the trial has revealed much more. Also, Fitz's mandate is very broad, and rock solid (at least on paper)(--but so is the Constitution--is my argument with H20Man, who says they won't dare do a "Saturday Night Massacre"). My feeling: Fitz ain't going anywhere til he solves this crime. There is no end date to his powers (which the Comey letter makes equivalent to the AG's powers--nay, superior to the AG's powers, cuz Fitz can indict the AG and ANYBODY WHO INTERFERES WITH HIM. (--as I said, on paper, anyway; in a lawful country). (What ever happened to the old rightwing "law and order" line?)

The Junta is in a tight spot vis a vis Libby. If they DO pardon him, they've got BULLDOG Fitzgerald right on him. If they don't, they've got an aggrieved Libby.

However, what I think the plan is, is to bugger all this legal stuff with a war on Iran, and consequent conflagration in the Middle East, which could involve (given Putin's recent statements), Russia, maybe even China (big interest in Iran's oil), Europe, parts of No. Africa, Pakistan, and the entire Middle East. And I don't mean that Russia, China and Europe would be our allies. They would be our enemies. The countries downwind of possible US nukes are likely very, very unhappy with us right now. I see a deliberate crash of the US dollar as part of this awful scenario--and possibly a preventive measure, although Cheney wants blood and lots of it, and he probably has his filthy billions in foreign currency. (They probably all do.) So what does he care? Chaos and mass murder as cover for massive thievery, treason, and what-all. Will Fitzgerald matter? Will our country even be functioning?

To Libby, I think it may just be a neat PNAC plan that fills him with egotistical pride. Conquer Iraq as stepping stone to Iran. Conquer Iran. Become Lords of the Earth, then "we make the rules." But what will REALLY happen is what is happening to Iraq right now--hell on earth. And the "neat" PNAC theory can easily escalate--more than likely WILL escalate--into WW III. Could even be the end of all life on earth (if Carl Sagan was right--about the impacts to our atmosphere of even a limited use of nukes). I think Libby is a "good soldier" of the PNAC conspiracy. I think he believes in it. And is taking the fall for ITS sake. He is probably deluded that the "aspens" will reward him for this. A knife in the back in prison will probably be his reward.

Why is Cheney not testifying for Libby? Because he is Fitzgerald's main target--and the things that have come out at Libby's trail point straight at him. He cannot afford to testify--and he also has bigger things on his mind: how to fuck up the world so that he can abscond to Paraguay, or wherever, with his loot. And Libby cannot testify for himself without being led into a deadly trap by Fitzgerald--an absolutely brilliant prosecutor--that would indict Cheney ten times over. Loyal Libby is protecting Cheney, but not just Cheney, he's protecting "the grand plan"--which is directly connected to WHY they outed Valerie Plane and the entire CIA WMD counter-proliferation network--to be able to have a free hand with WMDs, to indict Iran with, and/or create a terrorist incident to blame on Iran. (Also, it's my guess that Cheney is protecting Rumsfeld and the plan to plant WMDs in Iraq that failed. That plan, if exposed, would point to their Iran plan.)

Anyway, there is far, far more at issue here than just a warring bunch of rightwing assholes knifing each other in the back. There is A PLAN. We see it in the weird, wild things the Junta is still saying, against all reason--about Iran now being the "mother of all threats," then trotting out some bomb parts with "suspicious" serial numbers, presented by DoD operatives who won't give their names. I mean, that is just WEIRD. But it is only the beginning. And Libby keeping his lip zipped is PART of The Plan (or so he has been led to believe).

I don't know that "The Plan" is going to work. But they sure can create a lot of bloody hell trying. And, frankly, I don't think Cheney gives a crap if it works or not, as long as he and the multi-billionaire war profiteers behind him escape the consequences.

[Disturbed]

24. You nailed it Peace Patriot .

Libby is just antoher pawn in their game.

[autorank]

31. Libby's facade will crack to the great displeasure of the * administration

What a strong opening! And a great post!

1. He probably knows enough to put the entire Bush Junta behind bars if not before a firing squad. So if he turns on them, while they are still in power--or even long afterward--his life would be in jeopardy.

For those watching, that is the mantra. He knows everything. Since Cheney is running the show, this statement is axiomatic.

2. I actually think that he is a true believer.

He appears to be a true believer just like Iago appeared to be the same;) He's also very secretive. He prefers to have no publicity. He won't tell people what the "I" stands for in his name. His conversion to "true believer" came at the hands of Paul Wolfowitz at Yale. Now catch me here if I'm off base, but Wolfowitz as an inspiration for a conversion is hard for me to buy (Libby was a moderate to left student at the time). Wolfowitz as a meal ticket, however, is not hard at all. He's been wired from day one and presented Libby with the stairway to power and security. Everything changed for Libby after his encounter with the inspirational Wolfowitz. From that point on, Libby would appear to be and, for all practical purposes, was a true believer.

But now he's in a world of misery. He's indicted, tried, and may be convicted. IF HE IS, the basis for his conversion, a road of convenience, is shattered along with his life as he knows it. His privacy has been compromised, even to the point of speculation about an assignation with the former NYT war propagandist, Judith Miller. He's also going to wake up and realize that nobody helped him, nobody of a substantive nature.

How might Libby react if convicted. While the rationale presented below might have a pose or a message to the White House, it's now a reality. Libby was not only sacrificed to Karl Rove, he was also tossed over the cliff for his ultra mentor, Cheney.

I. Lewis Libby's attorney countered by painting a different White House plot, alleging that administration officials sought to blame Libby for the leak to protect Bush political adviser Karl Rove's own disclosures.

"They're trying to set me up. They want me to be the sacrificial lamb," attorney Theodore Wells said, recalling a conversation between Libby and his boss, Vice President Dick Cheney, as the leak investigation heated up in 2003. "I will not be sacrificed so Karl Rove can be protected."

And that's where we are if the trial goes badly for Libby, if he's convicted.

If convicted: he's a felon; a disgraced lawyer; labeled as one lied about vital national security interests; and a "stand up guy" who was hung out to dry by the "wise guys."

I think that this is the formula for collapse...of Libby's carefully constructed persona. He's going to crack and when he does, he'll become a productive source of information on the crimes of this administration. As Independent_Liberal suggested some time ago, Libby will be this administrations John Dean.

[Independent_Liberal]

34. Actually, I think Libby is...

...the G. Gordon Liddy of this administration. Get it? I. Lewis Libby=G. Gordon Liddy.

Cheney=Agnew
Rice=Kissinger
Card=Haig
Rove=Haldeman
Hadley=Ehrlichman
Gonzales=Mitchell
Feith=E. Howard Hunt
Perle=McCord
Harriet Miers=Rosemary Woods
George Tenet=Richard Helms
Porter Goss=James Schlesinger
Abramoff, AIPAC, Energy Task Force and WHIG=CREEP and Plummers
Dukester, Wilkes, Foggo and Hookers=Burglars
Missing Plame Emails=18-minute gap erasure in Watergate tape
Replacements of US Attorneys=Saturday Night Massacre
Patrick Fitzgerald=Leon Jaworski
Sibel Edmonds=John Dean
Russell Tice=Deep Throat
The Blogosphere=Woodward and Bernstein
Rudy Giuliani=J. Edgar Hoover (Both tough on crime, both dressed in drag, etc.)
Patriot Act=COINTELPRO
Downing Street Memo=Pentagon Papers
New Hampshire Phone Jamming=Third Rate Burglary
Jefferson FBI Raid=The break-in of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office
John Conyers=Peter Rodino
Patrick Leahy=Sam Ervin

[Graybeard]

36. I knew I had seen this movie before!

...LMFAO...nice work.

[autorank]

40. Isn't it great. Amazing. If I had a valentine left, i'd give it to him.

[autorank]

41. OK OK, so he's Liddy, which means he'll do time...but he'll crack.

Liddy was into punishment, hanging tough, etc. But this guy is a bit refined, may not like Marion, may not like being away from his family, may not like taking the fall as everyone who promised to help scattered at the last minute. He may also have a political conversion. He's ripe for that. His original mentor, Wolfowitz, is head of the World Bank and he, Libby, will do time, hard time and plenty of it. Yale and Columbia Law didn't prepare him for this. The Judge is gearing up, teeing up maybe. So if Libby snaps out of his trance and goes back to his pre Wolfowitz politics, then he's a liberal leaning senior who is now in the Federal penitentiary as a result of all these nut bag right wingers. That's called a rude awakening and he'd talk a lot.

That list is priceless!:evilgrin:

[catmandu57]

35. I don't beleive the if, he will be convicted

and the only pardon I see coming his way will be a shiv in prison to silence him. This is just the opening salvo, maybe by putting I liar in solitary protective custody it may save him, for a while.
The best I liar can hope for is to cooperate with Fitz and make life a living hell for all involved, in order to keep breathing he needs to become the sand in the gears.

[bklyncowgirl]

25. The presidential pardon is in the mail.

Assuming he gets convicted, after the obligatory appeals run their course our boy Scooter will get off at worst with a couple of months at Club Fed before he is granted his presidential pardon as the Bush administration comes to a close.

He & Cheney will meet for drinks at Cheney's ranch and bygones will be bygones as they chat over old times and new plots.

[Catfight]

26. Everyone walks away and the only one hurt it a CIA agent that risked

her life for a crappy country that turned on her because a tyrant stole the WH. This will never see a history book, it'll be something we all just remember how evil this WH administration is and don't give a shit about national security. It's all a game and Plame lost.

[nicknameless]

27. K&R

We need a smiley downing antacids like the one eating popcorn.

[H2O Man]

28. The decision

about whether to call VP Dick Cheney was made by two groups of attorneys: those working with Patrick Fitzgerald, and those on the Libby defense team. For both of these groups, the questions involved in making the decision -- and it is worth noting that neither side called him -- was how calling him would impact their case. One side has the goal of convicting Scooter; the other's goal is defending him. Neither side is there to advocate for Cheney. Neither side is promoting his well-being. This trial was all about Scooter Libby .... although it certainly exposed the role of Dick Cheney.

By that measure, the defense gets more potential benefit from the testimony that shows this was Dick Cheney's operation, and that Scooter was simply doing what he was told. One or more jurors might recall some circumstance when they were blamed for a decision their boss made. That's not an uncommon experience -- as Cathy Martin testified.

Outside of the context of the trial, it is absolutely true that Dick Cheney is allowing Scooter Libby to take the weight for this scandal. And that's a lot to ask of anyone. I used to say, on the early Plame Threads, that when preparing to commit any crime, it is best to do it alone. The more people involved, the more the odds go up that one or more will turn on you to save themselves. It's best to only be partners with someone that you are sure will be willing to endure incarceration without talking. Is Scooter going to do that for Dick? Only time will tell. I doubt that his attorneys are encouraging that type of thinking.

[mmonk]

30. "I doubt that his attorneys are encouraging that type of thinking."

Very important as to the credibility of his attorneys in terms of providing a vigorous defense. How will they play it in terms of being thought of as effective defense attorneys?

[autorank]

39. Good question.

I just saw a story on this tonight. Libby's attorney got Clinton Ag Scty Espey off on 30 counts of some charges a while ago. That's pretty good and the attorney does have a good rep in DC. In this case, the attorney is not the one to take the blame. It's Libby for being guilty; why else would he stay off the stand? And it's Cheney for chickening out. He was more concerned about getting smacked around by Fitz and implicated than he was about fulfilling hihs obligation to his loyal, long timie subordinate. Who knows how it turns out. Fitz hasn't lost a lot of cases in his career and none lately. The aspens are turning...

[Me.]

32. I Heard One Commentator Say All The Counts Added up To 30 Years

Sounds right.