The Political Compass of Democratic Underground ... any questions?

[TahitiNut]

Have at it! :silly:

















Feces-flingers are welcome to offer alternatives that meet with greater acceptance.

[Deja Q]

1. Is there a link so we can take the test and post our results?

:evilgrin:

[TahitiNut]

3. Certainly ... join over 430 other DUers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1946492

[Deja Q]

8. Sweeeeeeeet, thanks!

[KoKo]

74. Here's my score: Lft/Rt: -7.50 Soc/Libertarian: -4.67

It looked like it turned out somewhere around Gandi.

[TahitiNut]

80. Gotcha covered.

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

2. About as I figured. I always thought of myself as a moderate,

but I scored just, and I do mean just, out of the DU majority.

Thanks for the work, TN. Very interesting.

[TahitiNut]

7. I really do think we often choose a label that has "Good PR" ...

... but doesn't necessarily reflect our core attitudes. As well, we all have some tendency to "go with the flow" and adopt some birds-of-a-feather attitudes without in-depth personal consideration.

Over my adult life. I've changed my attitudes on a number of issues from what I 'inherited' .... going from pro-death penalty to adamantly anti-death penalty, for example. I think it can't do a person anything but good to think and rethink such perspectives.

I'm strongly inclined to believe DU really isn't a "radical fringe" in terms of our values. We're human beings, first, last, and always. We're diverse - in age, gender, religion, race, and everything else. The major difference between DUers and others is the interest and energy invested in learning and becoming informed. It's NOT that we're smarter. It's that we're interested and motivated.

Indeed, we're aware that we invest the time and interest in such things. That's WHY we habitually dig in our heels ... particularly when we've heard the same ol' arguments before and found them sadly wanting.

So ... I think this is good news. It should also alert us to the strong probability that those we elect are so often unaligned with us, their 'base.' It's no wonder we're often disappointed in the people we elect ... and no wonder that we almost NEVER find the Congressional Black Caucus or the Congressional Progressive Caucus wanting. There ARE people fighting the 'good fight' ... but it's pretty clear that we're far more tolerant of those who'd accommodate the far right than ANYONE on the far right is of accommodating us - the majority. I think it's time we stopped being so accommodating .. it amounts to selling out. There can be no compromise with the uncompromising. The majority liberals surrendering 90% and the minority far right surrendering 10% is not compromise. It's a perversion of "give and take"... where we give and they take. That must stop. No better time to stop it than now.

[KoKo]

71. Thanks....very interesting.. n/t

[KoKo]

73. delete...posted wrong thread..

[stevedeshazer]

4. I know Walt Brown

Walt Brown is a friend of mine.

DU is no Walt Brown.

Walt Brown is a great American: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Brown

The guy is flat-out the nicest guy on the planet, smart as hell, and too far left for most of DU, but I'm glad you indirectly brought him up here.

[ProudDad]

56. His dot is sitting on my dot... (n/t)

[XemaSab]

5. I have a question:

Why are all our candidates about as close to Hitler as to us?

If not closer? :shrug:

[superkia]

20. The real question is, why do so many support the ones that are there?

I am very happy to know the candidate I have been supporting is closer to where I am in my beliefs. It tells me the media and the system haven't fooled me into voting for someone that doesn't represent me. I feel so much better and not as much like one of the many sheeple that vote for candidates that truly don't speak for them as they were elected to do. I haven't fell for the media and political bullshit and actually stand for what I believe. Yay for me!

Go Dennis Kucinich!!!!


Is anyone else voting for someone that is close to their own beliefs?

[intheflow]

35. Yes.

I'd happily vote for Gore if he ran, but right now, Kucinich is my man. And my results put me in the furthest southwest corner of the grid, way to the left of Gandhi.

I like your analysis of yourself, that you haven't been fooled and aren't a sheeple. That's a great way to look at your results! :)

[tomp]

49. indeed, that is the real question.

i'm far to the left of kucinich. no wonder the others nauseate me.

[Maat]

6. Uh-oh. I came out to the left of Dennis K.

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.72

:hippie:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-7.62&soc=-8.72

[TahitiNut]

9. Even worse ... you're to the left of Ralph Nader. (The horror!!)

:evilgrin:

[Maat]

10. I'm laughing my whatsis off now ...

:rofl:

[Breeze54]

12. So am I!

:P

You and I are very close on the graph!

Just reverse the numbers.

Economic Left/Right: -8.72
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.62

[Maat]

14. Oh, yes, we are!

That's so neat.

My hubby always laughs ... he says his business partner is as right as I am left ... he keeps us apart.

:rofl:

I'm a retired social worker who graduated from law school 3 years ago (I don't practice; Hubby and I run computer software cos.); BUT all I've got to say is that once you truly have come into contact with most people's reality, as I have, and worked with them on solving their everyday problems, you can no longer go back to conservative fantasy.

[Breeze54]

18. You retired and then went to law school???

AWESOME!!! :hi:

I admire you!! That's what I've been thinking of doing but I'd have
to do a lot of work to get there...and I'm not getting any younger.
That's great that you now run a SW company too! Wow! I'm impressed!

It's nice to see others here that think like me! :P

[Maat]

23. You have a pal!

I'm homeschooling my daughter now (I know some think that that's for conservative Christians), but she just didn't work out well in the conventional classroom (she has an artist's personality). She goes to a neato "hybrid" program, in which credentialed teachers help me plan my curriculum, and we coordinate with a classroom curriculum. They go to class with the credentialed teachers twice a week; then we work on our "packet." It works SO well for us; but I can't take the bar repeatedly (as is necessary in SoCal these days), and I can't work full-time at a conventional job (so, like the other parents in this boat, I had to get creative). I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, it's good to find out I have a pal!

:hi: :hug:

[Breeze54]

25. Cool! I always have room

for new pals! :) And as far as your daughter? Why not, if you can do it!
I had thought of doing that too a few years ago (out of aggravation with
teachers) but I just wouldn't have been able to handle that with a child
that had/has LD's. He needed a specialist's help. They did a great job
and he's now graduated HS! Yeah!

[Maat]

27. Good job!

He got out of high school - and he knows his style of learning. That will serve him well.

[eridani]

58. You and 77% of the survey takers on DU

No surprise there--people who actually do practical governance often trim their sails to some extent.

[yurbud]

77. put on an orange jumpsuit and a hood over your head. someone will be by to pick you up shortly

[Gregorian]

11. Nope. No questions. Everything's right about where I thought.

Although that Bush point is frightening as hell.


America needs Dennis Kucinich.

[Breeze54]

13. Thanks for doing all that, TahitiNut!

Great job!!

:kick: & Recommended

[TahitiNut]

22. Sure thing, young lady!

:hi: It's been nearly 4 years (I think) since I did it last. It seemed to be the RIGHT time to do it again, since the heated rhetoric has tended to skew perceptions.

I don't know of a better empirical measure, however imperfect, than this ... and the blunt instruments of 'left' vs. 'right' are nearly useless, imho.

[TalkingDog]

15. I'm in wonderful company between Nelson and His Holiness.

Just me, but I'd put GWB much higher on the Authoritarian scale, and who the frack is the 2.3% up in the corner???? Freepers?


My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[Maat]

16. Thanks again, TahitiNut!

:)

[Skidmore]

17. I always test out as a left libertarian down next to

Gandhi and the Dalai Lama. In good company.

[Richard Steele]

19. No surprises there. K&R

[superkia]

21. So have that many people been duped by the media and vote against there beliefs?

[TahitiNut]

24. IMHO??? Yes. Absolutely. It's not just the media, either.

I personally don't think DU is 'extreme' except in the degree we're INTERESTED. I've found that I can conversationally 'sneak' through the minefield of catch-phrases and talking points and get folks to agree ... but people take up their positions based on the memes and catch-phrases they hear from people they "trust," almost without thinking. Sneak past those and it's remarkable how much folks agree. The "divisions" in the electorate are far more a creature of the political class (and the wealthy) than they are based on core beliefs.

[blondeatlast]

72. That has been my experience too. Offer them a little more background on

an issue in the news and you can almost see the light come on in their eyes--"I never thought of that, but you have a point!"

And then, and then--

"That makes so much sense..." (wait for it)

"Why don't they talk about THAT on the teevee?"

[Lilith Velkor]

26. What was your score?

Mine was -8.1 economic, -5.8 authority.

[TahitiNut]

37. Moi? Economic Left/Right: -7.75 ... Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

But I'm old. :evilgrin:

I'm almost exactly as far 'west' as Nelson Mandela, who KNOWS the evil of corporatism, and almost exactly as far 'south' as the Dalai Lama, equally respectful of human liberties.

I'm an independent liberal, too, not a partisan Democrat. (I just don't DO 'partisan.') :shrug:

[Lilith Velkor]

28. Also...what does that little 2.3% in the upper right sector of the results mean?

Are those Bushbot trolls?

[TahitiNut]

39. See below. Posts #36 and #38.

:evilgrin: Mnemonic: that 2.3% is brown.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

29. The majority of our core beliefs are very similar

It leaves me wondering why we bicker among ourselves as much as we do? :shrug:

Nice job, thank you for doing this.

[BlackVelvet04]

30. Economic Left/Right: -6.25

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13

[smoogatz]

31. I took it as though I was George Bush

I tried to answer honestly, based on his known positions. I ended up in the far NE corner: Economic Left/Right: 10.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 8.87. I think the "Bush" dot on the website may be a bit too liberal.

[TahitiNut]

33. I'd love to see his and Cheney's scores ... after they got sodium pentathol.

Hell ... it should be a campaign requirement for ALL candidates. :evilgrin:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Praise the Lord!! I'm finally part of a political majority!!

[lonestarnot]

34. Good to see I'm in the majority here at DU!

:applause:

[Breeze54]

45. Of course you are, silly!

:silly:

:hug:

[lonestarnot]

51. Heh.

:hug: :silly::P

[TheDoorbellRang]

36. So about 94% of us are liberals.

Who knew? :rofl:

Seriously tho, this was a great idea. I think every once in a while DUers need to step back and realize that for all our kvetching at each other over this and that, we really do have quite a bit in common. Thanks for doing this, TahitiNut.

BTW, what's the 2.3% in the far NE corner?

... OMG, I just figured it out. Those must be the ones who either "refused to participate" or said "Robb is a dingbat"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TahitiNut]

38. Well, those who said "Robb is a dingbat" can come from ANY poltical perspective.

OTOH ... :evilgrin: ... sociopaths deserve some kind of recognition.

[Jamastiene]

40. Bottom right left hand corner.

To the left of Ghandi and the Dalai Lama.

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

[EFerrari]

41. I'm glad I didn't bet you because I would have sworn DU was

mostly in the 10.6 group.

Do NOT hire me as a political consultant. lol

[Jed Dilligan]

42. The four percent above the horizontal axis

are probably the loudest group here, in terms of posts per member.

[EFerrari]

44. You can't possibly accuse me of not doing my part.

:rofl:

:hi:

[Tesha]

59. Bingo. (NT)

[Spazito]

43. Fascinating survey, it seems we have much more in common

than we do differences yet the flame wars erupt on a regular basis. We DO like to debate nuance, don't we!

Thanks, TahitiNut, for doing this, I have enjoyed both threads and doing the test.

[eridani]

46. All our Dem candidates are in the right/authoritarian quartile, however

--every single one of them is left of every single Repub. Until we can get organized enough to do an end run around the corporate money machine, I don't see that we have any alternative but to go yellow dog in the general election.

Interesting that 77% of us are left of Kucinich and Gravel. Not surprising--even those two don't bring up the necessity of radically reconfiguring what we think of as "work".

[tomp]

50. you don't get it, do you?

there is no qualitative difference between them, only a matter of degree.

btw, where are you one the chart?

[eridani]

52. I'm just saying that the small degree has big repercussions on people's lives

-8.00 and -7.65 is where I am, right along with the rest of the crowd. I don't see any reason to pretend that we have the organizational clout to counter corporatism when we don't. We're moving right along in the process of building it, but we aren't there yet. If we were, we could put an anti-corporate candidate over the top.

[tomp]

53. if we always go along with the lesser ot the evils...

...we will never get there. history shows that strategy does not work.

[eridani]

55. Well, what does work?

When the official party actively worked against its own nominee in 1972, I said screw it--let's agitate in the streets. Eventually it will get so bad that people won't take it anymore. Say, how's that strategy been working out for us lately? :sarcasm:

Third parties? Get back to me when you hear of one that has Precinct Committee Officers and voterfiles.

[tomp]

68. how has any recent democrtaic administration helped?

how's the 2006 election working out?

i admit i can't say with certainty what will work, but i know with certainty what's not working. what eventually works will be something different from the status quo, i.e., supporting the lesser of two evils, because in the end that just pushes the "center" to the right.

[eridani]

81. Progressives stopped putting people into the candidate pipeline in the 70s

It's going to take time to rectify that mistate. I'd call blocking some of the worst Repub initiatives in the 90s useful, though far from enough.

[endarkenment]

69. We don't even try. We start out conceding defeat.

They have us hornswoggled, confused, bewildered, and rolling over right at the get go.

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. Niiiiiice. I knew I liked this place for a reason.

:thumbsup:

[Mister Ed]

48. My political compass is just marked "right" and "wrong"

Mama raised us to know the difference.

[leftofthedial]

54. I haven't taken this in awhile.

they have a new question or two.

Economic Left/Right: -10.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.56

No wonder I hate my government. They're nearly all fascists.

[killbotfactory]

57. I'm in the bottom left corner

along with all the other sane people. :)

[Forkboy]

60. It's always nice to be closer to Ghandi than Thatcher and Hitler.

:)

[LanternWaste]

61. Uh-oh... Gandhi and Nelson Mandela are authoritarians...

Uh-oh... Gandhi and Nelson Mandela are authoritarians.
Does that mean they'd show a receipt if asked...?

:evilgrin:

[zanne]

62. I want to know who the authoritarians are.

Just lead me to 'em.

[LWolf]

64. Ok.

[zanne]

65. Thanks, but who are the Authoritarians on DU? nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

63. Thank you Tahiti Nut for all of your work and it's wonderful to know that I am

in the vast majority here on DU.

[DemExpat]

66. Great initiative, TahitiNut!

Sometimes I think most of us here can start feeling like we don't belong to a majority of participants.

This just lays all of that division and conflict to rest - at least at the basis of what we all believe.

I'm kind of surprised that it came out so overwhelmingly in the lower left quadrant.

:hug: :hi:

DemEx

[Ganja Ninja]

67. So most of DU is to the left of Gandhi and the Dali Lama.

To quote Barry Goldwater, "Extremism in the cause of liberty is no vice."

[TahitiNut]

70. Late registrants rest assured I've updated the graph to include y'all.

I just updated the graphic to reflect the most recent (last 24-36 hours) polling results. It's unlikely to change very much as more answer the poll ... mostly at the fractional percentages.

[Xithras]

75. Wahoo! Thanks for that, it made my day.

I've been accused of being a moderate on this site before, and have always known that I'm more right that most people here. I am one of the 10.8%, which puts me to the right of about 75% of the posters on DU.

But my dot on that chart falls right between Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel, and that's company I'll HAPPILY keep.

[Lucinda]

78. I'm in the same group

I plot to the immediate right of Gandhi. And thats good with me. :thumbsup:

[Gregorian]

76. OK, I'm confused.

If this survey represents the majority of people on this forum, then why are there so many Hillary supporters here? And I am not using that as a way of bashing her. I'm just saying that it seems to indicate some kind of error in either this survey, or my perception of how many people on this forum are not voting for their ideals. I mean, shouldn't this place be Kucinich Central?

Sorry. I didn't say that properly. I'll come up with the right way at 3am tonight. That's how it works with me.

[TahitiNut]

82. I think it's partly "horse race" thinking.

Too much of who we WANT to win is affected by who we think WILL win .. and we like bandwagons so much that we'll climb aboard one even before we notice it's underpopulated.

There's a LOT to be said about the marketing of the fait accompli. If we're presented with a completely open field, we tend to form a first impression (based on appearance, style, and name recognition) and join the crowd armed with that opinion (an opinion is a weapon). Then it's a "last man standing" thing. If, on the other hand, we're presented with a "take it or leave it" option, we have to make a choice between loyalty (dogma) and excommunication. Partisans (and Catholics) have an especially strong propensity to adhere to dogma - demonstrate 'loyalty' - and leave the complicated stuff to the convocation of the learned.


Here's a story ...

When I was in college and belonged to a fraternity, I had a "hot date" for a Saturday night, set some days ahead of time. Since this wasn't a regular occurrence, I wanted to attend some kind of party/gathering. But there wasn't one planned. I had an idea. Rather than present my fraternity brothers with the proposal of "let's have a party" and pose them with the problem of arranging one and doing the planning work, I decided to pretend it was already planned. I asked individual brothers "Are you joining the rest of us at the cider party?" They said they hadn't heard and asked me the specifics. I invented them as I went. Road Trip to the cider mill. Come back to the house. Dance, drink and party. I was then asked "What kind of booze goes with cider?" I got creative. "Vodka," I answered. We wound up spiking the fresh cider with vodka. A good time was had by all (... and that vodka seemed to accelerate fermentation to light speed).

The life lesson I gleaned from this is: it's easier to get folks to go along with a fait accompli than actually do any thinking.

IMHO, that's been the campaign strategy of the Clinton campaign ... facilitated by a willingly compliant corporate media and financial sector. (After all, all they have to do is ask "would you rather have Edwards or Kucinich?" and the moguls - including Murdoch - accept the quid pro quo.)

[Gregorian]

85. The magic box.

I tend to be very simple. Your story fits right in with what I perceive. First, THEY own our media. And second, people believe what they see on tv. And tv is how most people get their information. I think it's pretty obvious that Hillary is the corporation's choice of Democratic candidate. I have watched over the years in great distress as Americans gravitate toward the lowest common denominator of entertainment. And news. So it's no surprise that they have been conditioned for just this process we find ourselves in now.

You know all of this. The problem is so advanced, so chronic, it would take decades to get us on track again. I am relatively hopeless at this point. From the level of education, to... No, it's primarily education. That's pretty much it. Democratic Underground helped me take a very fast path to political education. And I am most grateful. But there is much more. Art history, mathematics. These are crucially important. I can hear Limbaugh blabbing about "underwater basket weaving". The quality of our society suffers greatly because of the long term concerted effort to stifle our awareness.

We need an educated public. We need a media that is not partisan. Then people will realize when they're being "had". Then that compass will be 100% in that lower left quadrant. We work together, or we have revolution. And I see neither.

That's about all I can say for now.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

83. I see a dozen or so...

hardcore Hillary boosters here, and most others who just say they will vote for her if she is the nominee. I also notice that some of the most ardent (that's the polite word) HC boosters are folks I have long thought to be the most conservative members of DU whose opinions I have dismissed for years. :D

[TahitiNut]

84. I have the same impressions.

The "swarm effect" creates a perception of a far larger constituency than exists in reality.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

86. Yup....

Browse GD:P any given day and, by the postings, you'd think this is Hillary HQ. :D

[ozone_man]

88. Vocal minority perhaps?

I think most DU polls show Kucinich somewhere around 50% or 60%. And Edwards I think is usually next after Kucinich. So, I doubt the political compass is a fluke. I think DU is progressive and left/libertarian overall. Much better than being raging moderates. How boring that would be, to fight for the center/right. We'll pull the party to the 3rd quadrant where it belongs. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. My, my

I tend to be to the left and libertarian

Took it about a week before you did this.

It was fun.

Found out that I am increasigly radicalized (thanks george)

[jpgray]

87. I've got a question--why do people get pissed when I refer to us as "leftists?"

By any definition which isn't marketed by a Scaife think-tank, we -are- fucking leftists. I don't see why that is a negative rather than a descriptive term?