What I find really amusing about the 2013 statement is...

[Javaman]

we put the dems in control to do two basic things. get us out of iraq and get moron* out of the WH.

They are pushing Iraq off till 2013 and refuse to begin impeachment proceedings.

Who failed who here?

My support for the dems is just about gone. I no longer give them my inflated dollar to support positions that I don't agree with.

And if this is the best that the democratic candidates can do, when coming up with "alternative ideas", then in truth I can't in my conscious continue to support them.

The final deal breaker for me is if they table morons* request for additional funds for this fucked up war. Not if they pass it, but just table it.

The dems hold the power and don't have to bring up the funding bill at all.

Once they even move to table it, I'm gone from the dems.

It breaks my heart. I have voted Democratic since I can remember.

Face it folks, there is only a handful of people in the government that actually still listen to the people. The rest are so driven by ego and power that they choose to take the caretaker approach and think they believe to know what is best for us aka what is best to keep them in power and in money.

I'm tired. I'm old. I've seen a lot. And what I see now, frankly, isn't much.

If I waste my vote by voting 3rd party, fine, it's my vote to waste. But I just can't support someone that finds the continuation of this war okay and keeps a blind eye to morons* crimes to be part of a philosophy I will be willing to support.

I will get much hate mail for this. That's okay, hate away. It does nothing to change my mind.

Peace and justice is all I ask for and both of which are in such short supply and in dire need right now. Is that really to much to ask?

Our government is run by the corporations. Period. They only care about the bottom line.

War is profitable and as long as moron* stays in power the corps make money.

Our Democracy has been bastardized by those who found a loophole to corporate fascism.

That loophole is called: Ignore the people.

Maybe we are, "We the People", but we aren't we the corporation.

[hang a left]

1. Does it not suck?!?

You know, there was a netroots effort to get the blues elected. And even after THAT, the bastages turned their backs upon the progressive communities who's blood, sweat, tears, and dollars got them elected.

Now they act like the rest of them. Disgusting. It is almost like there is a code they must follow once they are elected to congress. Like someone says:

"Lucky for you, you got here. Now that you are here, let us fill you in on how this program goes down". And...if you don't go with the flow and want to cause problems...Well, we have obstacles for you."

All it takes to be in the legislature any more is a doctorate in false facing, and a PHD in bullshit.

We, as a republic(if you can keep it) are finished.

[Dollface]

2. That attitude is what got us the current Supreme Court. There actually is a lesser of 2 evils.

No disrespect to Ralph Nader intended (I love the guy), but the "New American Century" fascists are still out there waiting to take advantage of any opening. Are you so disappointed that you want to see 911 Rudy in charge? Or Tancredo?! If you're about to say that it doesn't make any difference please remember that many said it didn't make any difference in the 2000 election either. We'll be paying for that whiny bullshit for the next 50 years.

[Javaman]

3. Thank you for your opinion. :) nt

[provis99]

10. oh, smooth. Blame the liberals

Maybe you should start blaming the morons that vote Republicans, rather than liberals who, apparently correctly, had the foresight to see the Democratic party enabling Bush yet again. Or blame the nonvoters. In your world, its Naders fault we have Bush? Whose side are you on?

[Dollface]

42. I'm not blaming Mr. Nader or Liberals, I'm just pointing out that we have paid a price.

I don't think any of us could have foreseen the nightmare that resulted. But aren't we awake now? I'm tired of voting against instead of for candidates too.

[spanone]

15. not really, the supreme court appointing junior as our president got us the SCOTUS

[Hydra]

19. SCOTUS appointments will not be pinned on us

Bush never won, so his appointments were not the will of the people. Don't repeat the lie that apathy won Bush his place in the WH- Corp power won the day.

[Raksha]

28. I agree there's a lesser of two evils, but it's starting to feel like extortion

to keep voting for the lesser of two evils one election cycle after another. That's exactly what has enabled the greater evil, i.e. fascism.

[Javaman]

33. exactly my point.

It's getting so that we vote democratic just so we don't vote republican. is that fucked or what?

I have always voted on issues, but for the first time in 04, I voted for Kerry just so we wouldn't have four more years of that moron*.

I can't do that any longer. I don't like lying to myself.

I liked edwards last time around more than I did Kerry, so for me, I was really voting Edwards.

I have had enough. I want a candidate that actually listens to the country. Not some candidate that is supported by lobbyists interests.

I like DK, and will follow his progress, but sadly, the choice has been shoved down our throats a full year before the election by the MSM.

Nothing to me has been decided, I wait for the primaries. that usually separates the wheat from the chaff.

[truedelphi]

37. Why is Ralph Nader always blamed? Why? Fifty per cent of the American

Populace is eligible to vote and doesn't bother - and now many of us are starting to realize that the non-political folks who refuse to vote possibly WERE RIGHT - that there isn't any way to make a change (except in local politics perhaps)

So if you and others can go on and on about Nader and never take up the more prevailing issue - that HALF OF AMERICA doesn't see the point in voting, then we can have a conversation.

[LSK]

4. so one brigade protecting an Embassy = feedling Military Industrial Complex

Please think deeper about this.

I mean is protecting an Embassy that out of the question?

Edwards spent his entire law career taking on Corporations, did you forget that?

Everyone is being so simplistic about this.

What if Bush starts an all out war with Iran in the next year? Would that be easy to end?

[Javaman]

7. Thank you for your opinion. :) nt

[DURHAM D]

5. The Dems were put in congress" to stop the Iraq war"-

has no basis in fact.

The statement was a right wing talking point/strategy (not supported by exit polling) designed to make Pelosi and Reid look ineffective because Rove knew the Dems did not have the numbers in congress to make a difference on the war.

The righties strategy has worked extremely well as it traveled from the WH through the corporate media to some Dem presidential candidates and lastly to the graveyard of right wing talking points - the Democratic Underground.

[Javaman]

6. Thank you for your opinion. :) nt

[DURHAM D]

8. Its not an opinion.

You have been played.

[Javaman]

13. and again, thank you for your opinion. :) nt

[LSK]

11. I worked on the Duckworth campaign for a few weeks

I don't remember a promise of ending the war.

:shrug:

[Javaman]

14. Thank you for your opinion. :) nt

[DURHAM D]

17. The DU has become a "fact free" zone. n/t

[Javaman]

18. Sigh, did you actually read my post?

I said "we" voted them in to get us out of iraq. good lord talk about jumping to conclusions. We the people based our hope that the elected officals would listen to US.

this is why I get so frigging frustrated with some people on here.

[LSK]

23. and I walked for 9 hours on election day knocking on doors

And the whole weekend before that. But I wasn't expecting a miracle.

[Javaman]

25. But you did vote with the hope that they would listen to us and get us

out correct?

[LSK]

27. well there is hope and then there is Senate rules

I hope I win the lottery too.

Now 2009 would be a different story.

By the way, you seemed to completely gloss over the plan to only to protect the Embassy by 2013. Why is that?

:shrug:

[Javaman]

29. If it was just a matter of protecting the embassy I would believe them...

but given the history of the repukes and nothing is real until it happens, I don't believe that will be the plan.

with umpteen bases in Iraq, fully operational bases, not merely staging points, I have a very hard time believing that only a small force will be left in Iraq to protect the embassy, especially since virtually everyone over there hates our guts and would probably over run the embassy the moment we started reducing troops.

Oh and I gloss over nothing, I look at things with very clear eyes.

[LSK]

31. there is a good chance of getting 60 Dem Senate seats in 2008

Repukes wouldn't have a say in that case.

[Javaman]

36. But again, if they table the vote for funding for the war

that totally goes against all the power they have now.

And like I said, if they table it, I'm gone. They could end this now. Just stop the funding.

everyday soldiers are dying, you think they want to wait?

[Hydra]

21. Exit polls?

War disapproval? The bag fat approval rating slide when the dems gave Bush another 100 Billion?

As for not having the ability to stop the war, a veto-proof majority isn't it. Bush can sign that way with his claim of unitary power as CiC.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. Here are some anecdotal facts.

I worked the phones last fall prior to the election and everyone I talked to who was voting Democratic had one issue they wanted to tell me about: 'get us out of this bad war'. Oh course that was New Hampshire and we had a bit of a firestorm here that surprised everyone. However, when formerly conservative New Hampshire has a Democratic clean sweep for the first time in 100 years, something unusual was going on, and I suspect it was not limited to my little state.

I do like your theory that it is a right wing talking point that the people voted the Democrats into office to end the war. It is the sort of twisted bullshit that has become normal 'spin' in today's bizaro world.

[Eurobabe]

9. My jaw dropped on the floor and broke, 2013??

So many of the top tier candidates? Why???

Feed the MIC much?

[Pacifist Patriot]

12. Imagine what would happen if everyone disaffected by both parties...

voted for a particular third party candidate. Just thinking.

[Javaman]

16. Imagination is more important that intelligence -Albert Einstein. :) nt

[Hydra]

24. If there were 3 or more large parties to vote for

you can bet we wouldn't be having some of the discussions we are

[Javaman]

26. Exactly right.

the "elected officials" would *gasp* actually have to listen to us.

[Raksha]

40. A large third party, a Progressive party...that's how I'm seeing it too,

and more and more often these days. If we build it, they will come.

[Raksha]

32. Even a 20% vote for a third-party candidate

would make the Beltway party sit up and take notice.

[AndyTiedye]

20. It Isn't "The Corporations", It's AIPAC

Only a few corporations are benefiting from this war.

We KNOW AIPAC wants war. They wanted the Iraq war, and now they want us to go to war against Iran.

"The corporations" don't want an Iran war, they know it would bankrupt the country.

[Javaman]

22. Good point...

What I meant by corporations was the weapons manufacturers.

[HughBeaumont]

35. You'd have to include those Corps who run the media in that.

War is big business for them as well.

[0007]

34. No hate from me pal!

'Tis a well known fact that the people are NOT being heard. It is a well known fact that big business is CORPORATE AMERICA. No better and no worse than the thirties in Germany.

The Neocons have busted the UNIONS and now they are busting the people. Voting for these so-called candidates that want to to lecture us and tell us in their smarty way 'they know best' in this complicated world.

[Javaman]

39. Thanks...

I really appreciate your words.

Some people just walk lock step without reading the issues and what people really want.

We as a nation have been neutered. our rights are gone our voice is gone and our basic freedoms are gone.

Yet people are still willing to listen to the rhetoric.

Thanks again. :)

Cheers!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

38. Let'em KNOW it and FEEL it!

Go here for contact info for the Dem candidates and honchos. Tell them "no out of Iraq" means "no $$$ and no vote for you!". It's time to put the fear of god in them:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1932851

[Javaman]

41. Thanks for the great links.

I already do. :) but thanks for posting that stuff for the people that don't.

I think it's time for another mass mailing though. I write them long hand. Someone once told me that those types of letters are the ones they read. I like to think that. :)

cheers! and peace!