Some S(an) A(ntonio) Apartments Banning Tattoos

[TomInTib]

Gilbert Carrillo thinks tattoos are an artform. He's been to tattoo conventions and one of his tattoos was featured in a magazine. "Ever since I was 18, to now, 25, bit by bit, covering up here, covering up there."

But last month, Carrillo's tattoos kept him and his wife, Melissa, from moving into an apartment complex called the Villas at Medical Center. "We liked the apartment, we brought them a check for the deposit and a check for the application fee," says Melissa.

Later, Gilbert went by to look at the apartment wearing a short sleeve shirt. The next day, the Carrillos were told they didn't qualify to live there, because the tattoos on Gilbert's arms violated the policy on personal appearance.


interesting...
http://www.woai.com/content/troubleshooters/story.aspx?content_id=57db782b-9874-4b37-aa00-0402ab8a7ab1

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. I'm going to assume that this is illegal.

And will wait for evidence to the contrary.

[Somawas]

2. I can't imagine why you'd think it illegal.

Private property. No discrimination based on race, creed, religion, national origin, age, disability, gender or other prohibited basis.

Stupid-yes. Illegal-not at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. There's very limited number of things landlords can do to their tenants.

Forbid political signs in windows? Sure. Forbid tattoos? I doubt it.

"Private property."

The private property in question belongs to the tenant.

[Selatius]

9. I think the political signs in windows can be challenged on 1st Amendment grounds.

The ACLU would be my first place to call if such a situation occurred.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Possibly.

The tattoos certainly could.

[MrCoffee]

4. it's not illegal

discriminatory housing practices generally target immutable characteristics such as race, gender, religion, etc. if you wanted to ban pet owners, you could. people with tattoos are not a protected category, so long as the prohibition applies regardless of who has the tattoo (i.e. white people with visible tattoos and hispanics with visible tattoos are equally prohibited). Unless you can legitimately link the tattoo to one of the protected characteristics, the landlord can turn you down because of your ink.

Texas Property Code

§ 301.021. SALE OR RENTAL. (a) A person may not refuse to
sell or rent, after the making of a bona fide offer, refuse to
negotiate for the sale or rental of, or in any other manner make
unavailable or deny a dwelling to another because of race, color,
religion, sex, familial status, or national origin.
(b) A person may not discriminate against another in the
terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling or
in providing services or facilities in connection with a sale or
rental of a dwelling because of race, color, religion, sex,
familial status, or national origin.
(c) This section does not prohibit discrimination against a
person because the person has been convicted under federal law or
the law of any state of the illegal manufacture or distribution of a
controlled substance.
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PR/content/htm/pr.015.00.000301.00.htm

there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, but there's no law against it. and i have no idea if i spelled "tattoo" right

[Trillo]

5. Tattoos are colored skin.

"color".

[MrCoffee]

6. insightful analysis

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[NYVet]

7. I have a friend who runs background checks on all tenants

before they are allowed to move into a residence.

She has gotten a couple of complaints over race discrimination, but when she pulled the files showing that it was done to everyone who wanted to rent from her, the state investigator walked away.

[MrCoffee]

12. Exactly. Without discriminatory intent, almost anything goes

If your friend used the background checks as pretext for excluding a protected group, she could be prosecuted. If everyone goes through a background check, it's not discrimination.

On edit...i used the word "intent" in its normal connotation, not as it should be used when discussing discrimination. just so's you know.

[NYVet]

20. She uses it to find out about who is renting.

She had a couple of people who burned her bad when they got arrested for running drugs from a residence she had.
It cost her almost 5 grand to clean up the house after they were only there for 3 weeks. Now everyone has the background checks when they come to rent and they have to explain any convictions.

And she is not prejudiced, she has everyone except for her husband (who buys her shiny baubles, often). :-)




Hell, I had to go through a background check and she has known me for 3 years.

[Chovexani]

8. I can't wait for this to be challenged in court

What about people who get tattoos for religious reasons? I know quite a few Pagans with tattoos that were done with magickal and/or spiritual meaning. I'm getting one myself, as soon as I get the money for it.

[MrCoffee]

10. are the tattoos integral to the practice of paganism?

can i even say practice of paganism? (i honestly don't know if that's the right/appropriate phrase). just because something has "magical or spiritual meaning" doesn't make it an integral part of the religious belief.

without knowing much, much more about the role of tattoos in paganism (a subject of which i am regrettably ignorant), there isn't much chance of that argument succeeding.

[Chovexani]

22. It's a tricky situation

Part of the problem is which strain of Paganism you're talking about. I know a lot of Ceremonial Magickians that get tattoos with certain initiations. The tattoo I'm planning on getting *is* integral to my practice, but as far as I know, I'm a trad of one. Because we're an umbrella of many disparate practices, we don't have codified rules. It's doubly difficult when you aren't Wiccan; even though I'm not one and haven't been for some time, I find it easier to just say I am when people ask, rather than "I practice a self-created tradition of Dark Paganism with Hindu and Shinto influences that incorporates alchemy and ceremonial magick". I'm not recognized by the government and never will be.

Wearing religious jewelry isn't integral to most people's belief systems either, but it's still generally considered a protected behavior, and something a lot less serious than a tattoo.

That people are so goddamn judgmental of other people's forms of self-expression to the point where this is even an issue is just messed up to me, though. Even if my piercings and tattoos were just a fashion statement, what difference does it make? I'm a law-abiding, productive member of society, I pay taxes, give to charity and generally mind my own business.

Oh, and here's a pic of the tattoo I'm getting, in case you're curious. It's going to be a full back tattoo. (ignore the logo, that's not going on there :P)

[MrCoffee]

29. thanks for the info...that's a cool design

i'm interested in the legal aspect of tattoos in regard to pagan beliefs and religious practice. From what you're describing, it would be pretty hard to get a court to recognize your tattoos as protected under the religion aspect of the law.


Thanks again for clarifying for me. I did some basic Googling and didn't really come up with much that helped. I appreciate it.

[Chovexani]

33. It's sad

Another reason I ID as Wiccan when dealing with non-Pagans is simply for the legal protection. What little acknowledgement we have under the law stems from the Wiccan groups' battles, just 'cause they're the largest Pagan sect (like the VA pentacle kerfluffle).

[nosmokes]

13. Me too!

I'm gonna get a tat of Foghorn Leghorn in a noose on my lower thigh; then I can say I have a big fat cock that hangs down to my knees...
seriously, the religous angle might work, but I was wondering about some old style sailor/marine dude who had a flag and a *mom* tattoo. if nothing else I would think the bad press would be enough to change the policy.

[Chovexani]

25. It might take a soldier

Unfortunately in this climate, the bad press from refusing an apartment to a vet might be the only way this stupid policy would get reversed. :(

[-..__...]

14. These Pagans have tattoos also.

In this situation, I could probably understand refusing to rent to them... :smoke:

http://hometown.aol.com/jailedpagans

[Chovexani]

24. What does their religion have to do with the price of tea in China?

The fact that they're convicted felons would proclude them from passing the background checks most complexes require. :shrug:

[-..__...]

28. Sorry...

next time I'll use the :sarcasm: tag instead of the :smoke: tag.

[Chovexani]

31. Oh dude I'm sorry

I'm on edge today. There's a freeper on my job that is working my last nerve. :(

[qdemn7]

16. Go to CNN

And watch the piece there. Local authorities make quite clear this is perfectly legal. The ONLY exception would be for people who explicitly have tattoos or piercings as part of their religion or national origin. Furthermore this property is NOT an isolated incident. The owners (a California MD is one of them) stated they have purchased numerous properties and this policy is in effect at all of them.

[MrCoffee]

17. ummm...it is perfectly legal. Texas Property Code Chapter 301.021

§ 301.021. SALE OR RENTAL. (a) A person may not refuse to
sell or rent, after the making of a bona fide offer, refuse to
negotiate for the sale or rental of, or in any other manner make
unavailable or deny a dwelling to another because of race, color,
religion, sex, familial status, or national origin.
(b) A person may not discriminate against another in the
terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling or
in providing services or facilities in connection with a sale or
rental of a dwelling because of race, color, religion, sex,
familial status, or national origin.
(c) This section does not prohibit discrimination against a
person because the person has been convicted under federal law or
the law of any state of the illegal manufacture or distribution of a
controlled substance.

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PR/content/htm/pr.015.00.000301.00.htm

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. That's hardly a comprehensive list of Texan tenant rights.

[tammywammy]

30. There's not really much tenant rights in Texas

[MrCoffee]

32. it's a comprehensive list of the rights of apartment seekers

once you sign the lease, you're a tenant. until then, your the general population. the Federal law tracks much the same way.

are you looking at a different law that would make this discriminatory?

[-..__...]

15. Violated the policy on personal appearance

Sounds like the policy includes more than just tattoos.

I'd be curious to read the full text of it.

[qdemn7]

19. Policy also states

No tongue or eyebrow piercings, no more than 1 nose piercing and no more than 5 ear piercings. Piece at WOAI http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=[e-mail]&navCatId=14

[PDenton]

18. I'll support it

I guess it depends on the apartment complex. Full body tatoos make some people nervous and it's not what they want in neighbors. Having so many tatoos you look like an ex-con, an outlaw biker, or both... just isn't cool. And piercings? Ugghhh.

That's why, boys and girls, your elders lecture you to think twice about tatoos. If you want to rebel, grow a beard (if you are a guy). At least you can shave that off.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

21. Don't you know letting tenants have tattoos

brings crime and gangsta and drugs!! :sarcasm:

[Chovexani]

27. Because people with tattoos are all scum sucking criminals

I'm really not digging this regression to the '50s we've been sliding towards as a nation. :crazy:

[devilgrrl]

23. What a fucking joke!

Don't people have better things to do?